Thread: Finally, A 10 second lucid induction! Title -*MFG*

Originally Posted by Sabre2552

No, your physical hands do not ever move. He says "real hands" so often because he is trying to make it clear that you are supposed to feel as if your physical hands are moving. They are not supposed to actually move, though.

What in incredibly odd way to try and describe something. No wonder people are getting confused.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

What in incredibly odd way to try and describe something. No wonder people are getting confused.

Not really... It's supposed to feel as if your hands actually move, so he tells you to move your real hands in the hopes that the technique will work and although you'll feel like your real hands are moving, it'll be in fact your dream hands that are moving.

In which case, why not simply and more specifically write "imagine moving your hands, so it feels as if you are moving your real hands"

Personally i think this needs to be rewritten in clearer language.
I was thrown by the wording and by the looks of it others were too.

If i say to someone "open your real eyes"
Im expecting them to open thier real eyes... not some imaginary ones.
That's kind of what real means, surely?
Am i alone in thinking this?

It's so funny how someone will post a technique and it's perfectly clear, and then 20 people will reply by saying "but what does that bit mean? Do you do this, or do you do that?" Even when it's already been explained a hundred times.

Oh, and great technique

Originally Posted by wendylove

I don't know about malac, however I had about seven lds since starting this. Proberly, more.

Malac, I think you're emphasis on the moving you're arm is making this technique to complicated. Also, I fail to see how you need to visualize, all you need to be is sufficently tired and slept for a long amount.

I think it more efficient just to move out of you're bed and do an RC, and don't bother with grabbing an object.

Elaborate on what you do, so I'll know what you're talking about

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

In which case, why not simply and more specifically write "imagine moving your hands, so it feels as if you are moving your real hands"

Personally i think this needs to be rewritten in clearer language.
I was thrown by the wording and by the looks of it others were too.

If i say to someone "open your real eyes"
Im expecting them to open thier real eyes... not some imaginary ones.
That's kind of what real means, surely?
Am i alone in thinking this?

Everyone seems to get it except like 2 people... I coudn't have said it better than the person above about how I've described this in easy terms multiple times.

Don't imagine your real hands, actually move them BUT when you do this your real hands won't actually move because you're attached to the image(theory).

Originally Posted by malac

Everyone seems to get it except like 2 people... I coudn't have said it better than the person above about how I've described this in easy terms multiple times.

Don't imagine your real hands, actually move them BUT when you do this your real hands won't actually move because you're attached to the image(theory).

So what you're saying is -dont imagine your real hands-move your real hands-but you're not going to really move your real hands- because it'll be your imaginary(dream) hands that move.

Right.

Surely if you've visualised something so strongly that when you go to move what you think are your real hands, that you're actually moving your dream hands... then you'd already be dreaming anyway?

To be honest, if i could visualise something so strongly that it put me into a dream, then i'd not be worrying about methods to get into a dream. Because i'd already be in one!

The way i see it is:

If you are awake (visualising or otherwise) and you go to move your physical hand, it will be your physical hand that moves.

If you are dreaming and you go to move (what you think is) your physical hand, it will be your dream hand that moves.

So...

Isn't this method just really... visualising until you enter a dream?

Because if you're in a dream, any bodily movment you go to make will be your dream body.

^^^

LOL just shutup and do it.

Your making it overly-complicated. Just follow malac's technique and if it doesn't work then revise it to fit your needs. There's no need to work out everything...

Originally Posted by Jorge

^^^

LOL just shutup and do it.

Your making it overly-complicated. Just follow malac's technique and if it doesn't work then revise it to fit your needs. There's no need to work out everything...

You're assuming i havn't.
Tried it quite a few times over the past few days.
No sucess with it.

It also made me question the process.
Because if i move my hand and it's my dream hand moving. Then i'm already dreaming... the movment of the hand hasnt put me into the dream.


(plus i disagree! I think it's quite healthy to work things out... as it's the very same mindset you use to "work out" you're dreaming. Critical thinking is the lucid dreamers most powerful tool, both waking and sleeping.)

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

You're assuming i havn't.
Tried it quite a few times over the past few days.
No sucess with it.

It also made me question the process.
Because if i move my hand and it's my dream hand moving. Then i'm already dreaming... the movment of the hand hasnt put me into the dream.


(plus i disagree! I think it's quite healthy to work things out... as it's the very same mindset you use to "work out" you're dreaming. Critical thinking is the lucid dreamers most powerful tool, both waking and sleeping.)

Oh my god, that is the faggishest thing I've heard all day, just follow the instructions, move your real hands, and dont try to be a philosopher! Geez, stop over complicating things!

Malac's technique gives you an actionable plan, something that you can hook your intent to. Lucid dreaming is all about recognizing the right state and taking action. Grabbing the image stabilizes the entry to the dream.

It's actually a pretty nice little trick although I agree with Wendy in that rolling out is more simple. It gives you a longer window of access. This is what I do by the way, suppressing thinking until I pass out or start to see hypnagogics. I recognize myself in this state by suggestions, then I just roll out.

There are many windows of opportunities if you wake up slowly, you just need to switch to the next when one passes away. If I see hypnagogics I roll out. I used to grab for things but it often fails.

Then there is a much longer tactile window of opportunity. In fact, you can try and "get out of your body" for minutes if don't move but keep repeating the same imagination over an over. It can be that you crawl out of your bed, on fours to the wall or just rolling onto one side in your bed over and over. It may take 5 minutes before it gets real. If it doesn't work out, you are at least programmed your mind and have a pretty good chance at semi-spontaneous OBEs later.

This method is not complete without using suggestions. You can encompass your intention into a power phrase such as "I'm gonna use my My Fast Grab, bitch!" as Malac or better yet, you can constantly rephrase the same intention so it won't lose its meaning.

Originally Posted by Erikkujonson

Oh my god, that is the faggishest thing I've heard all day, just follow the instructions, move your real hands, and dont try to be a philosopher! Geez, stop over complicating things!

I see MENSA has entered the room

Firstly DON'T use terms that are derogitory about peoples sexuality. It's incredibly immature and demonstrates a small mind. I'm sure there are more than a few gay people who use this forum and using terms that imply that homosexuality is a negative thing alienates them. Unless, you're refering to the english meat ball when you refer to faggot.

Also, the instructions are written in a way that isn't clear. Even you are now refering to the hands as "real" hands. Which they ARE DEFINITELY NOT, if they are your dream hands.

Sorry if you think that questioning, critical thinking and philosophy are bad things. You'll lead a very deluded and bland life.

^^^

Erikkujonson----> you got...OWNED!

LOL

Hey so I tried this last night.. I woke up almost 2-3 times and tried it each time.

The problem was that I pretty much fell asleep before I even could get any real vivid images in my head. Usually I'm really good at mental imaging, but last night was a disgrace. Any ideas?

Originally Posted by Erikkujonson

Oh my god, that is the faggishest thing I've heard all day, just follow the instructions, move your real hands, and dont try to be a philosopher! Geez, stop over complicating things!

What the fuck. This is a ridiculous attitude to lucid dreaming.

This technic sounds too good, at least i try, i´ll be a little sceptical about it. 10-15 seconds? God...If this works it will be the new Saint Graal of Lucid Dreaming!

However, it´s always positive to see people showing new prespectives, opening new patchs, and not always wasting time writing the sames tutorials...

At around 8 this morning I tried to WILD. I fell asleep and when I woke up, I immediately started visualizing for this technique. After about 30 seconds I found myself observing the scene I imagined, so I grabbed for something and it WORKED! The LD was only 10 seconds long, but it was the first one I've had since mid July! Thank you Malac!

Originally Posted by RockNRoller123

At around 8 this morning I tried to WILD. I fell asleep and when I woke up, I immediately started visualizing for this technique. After about 30 seconds I found myself observing the scene I imagined, so I grabbed for something and it WORKED! The LD was only 10 seconds long, but it was the first one I've had since mid July! Thank you Malac!

Heh np. That's why I said to stabilize once you're in the dream so you can stay in it Should get easier now for you since you done it once.

Yeah.

It was crazy I tried to stabilize my dream by looking at my hands, which is the only way that works for me, but it was like my neck was broke and I couldn't look at them.

I think I understand the "real hands" analogy, so I'm gonna throw in my two cents and maybe it will help somebody.

Like the practice example Malac used: imagining a scene and grabbing an object; actually using your physical body to grab an object. When attempting MFG, you would try to use your physical body to grab an object. Actually try to grab the object with your real, actual, physical hands. That's it.. If you've done it correctly, your actual hands won't move, but your imaginary dream hands will.

Does that sound about right, malac?

Also, what is this rolling out of bed and doing a RC? This works for WILDs too?

Malac, I tried this a few times. No success I fall asleep, also I can't get any vivid images formed in my mind.

Could you help out with my visualing?

Originally Posted by Excessaccess

I think I understand the "real hands" analogy, so I'm gonna throw in my two cents and maybe it will help somebody.

Like the practice example Malac used: imagining a scene and grabbing an object; actually using your physical body to grab an object. When attempting MFG, you would try to use your physical body to grab an object. Actually try to grab the object with your real, actual, physical hands. That's it.. If you've done it correctly, your actual hands won't move, but your imaginary dream hands will.

Does that sound about right, malac?

Also, what is this rolling out of bed and doing a RC? This works for WILDs too?

Thanks!
That makes sense.
Clearly worded. Nice one.

I suppose my only worry with this method is that if your real hands DO physically move, then it's going to break the trance you've been creating. Which would be annoying. Anyone had problems with that? and what solutions have you found?

Correct me If Im wrong, but if you change
"grab something" to "roll out of your dream body" isn't this just a WILD?

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

Thanks!
I suppose my only worry with this method is that if your real hands DO physically move, then it's going to break the trance you've been creating. Which would be annoying. Anyone had problems with that?

That's what happens to me. I get to the point where I think the scene is vivid enough, but apparently it's not. I go to move my arms and move my physical arms and nothing else. Now... to be fair I have woken after a long night of sleep and been able to visualize much better; the occasions where I've been trying this technique have been at a different time of the night. I'll try again this weekend at a different time and see if I can achieve some measure of success.