Thread: Calling All Dream Warriors (Roll Call)

Originally Posted by Ghost94

Did you pay her?

No, I did not pay her. I offered her a place to stay for a night. We became friends. She is a retired academic and an artist. She doesn't charge people for her "visions" and insights.

Originally Posted by Captain Frapo

If what happens is the merging of the dream plane with the physical, then we will inherit our dream capabilities in "real-time"... we will already have somewhat of an evolutionary edge.

Wow, that would be awesome! I hope you're right
I've been experiencing, ever more often, a kind of vivid dreams in which I am absolutely convinced that I am awake, because nothing seems to prove otherwise, even RCs frequently fail. Then when I become able to do the things I do in LDs, like flying and telekinesis, I experience a sense of achievement greater than when I do so in "normal" LDs. When I wake up from those "dreams" I tend to feel confused, like "so, which one is the dream???"
Skeptics, please cope with me, but what I feel is that these experiences happen somewhere between RL and the dreamplane, as if the two "realities" were progressively merging for me. So, what you say, rang a bell for me. I'm not saying I believe it 100% but I have hopes

what makes you believe that the Dream plane will merge with the pyhysical one

ya I am curious, what could even cause that to happen and why now as opposed to a billion years from now.

We are fastly approaching 2012 and the conspiracy theories are running wild, but most of them have no backing. So I'm not saying what your saying isn't true but if you dont give some evidence or reason to believe it, people are just gonna dismiss it as an other crazy conspiracy theory. They cant all be true.

Originally Posted by Atras

what makes you believe that the Dream plane will merge with the pyhysical one

I'm not saying it will. On this I am skeptical but open-minded. I like to consider it in theory. But in theory it makes sense if you assume both "realities" are just perceptions of your mind. The fusion would be the likely result of a greater collective awareness of the dream-like nature of all reality. The difference between dreams and dream-like reality would dissipate and your mind would be free from the current self-imposed constraints and would be able to experience all "life" as in the dreamplane. It's not like there are two dimensions that will fuse into one, it simply would be that your mind would realize there was never a distinction between the two in the first place!!!

By the way, I just had this interesting dream I think fits in the subject of this thread. Maybe some of you were there to!

Dream Warriors School
I finally managed to fall asleep (inside another dream) and immediately went into a dream of a empty room with only one large mirror on the wall. I changed it to have a certain size and shape. But then when I tried to cross it, the mirror was completely solid. I tried several times, I created several mirrors and none of them worked. Strange! That never happens!
Then came a girl who told me to sit with her. She explained to me what I should do to get through the mirror, but I told her "Yes, but that's what I always do! I do not understand why it does not work this time. " Then she told me something about me being on a new level and that I had to get used to how things worked a bit differently around there and she invited me to follow her. In the same building as we were, she took me to a more reserved area, with some large glass doors, which closed with some kind of electromagnetic field. I noticed that we were being followed, but the two guys who followed us were stranded outside. She did not seem to be worried about then, but I looked into their eyes through the doors and I realized they were men in black, but not of the usual kind. They had a devilish look in their eyes and I felt that these were more powerful that the usual guys. I did not feel very safe, but the girl told me that we were safe and she introduced to me the rest of the guys. It was a bunch of other dreamers and I knew we were the Dream Warriors School.
We were going to get to know each other when suddenly in front of me the men in black materialized. They had managed to pass the force field. It all happened very fast. They wanted to steal something, an object that was in the middle of the hall and they did it under our nose. But when they were fleeing, I used telekinesis to throw things at them, I threw fireballs and I fought physically with one or two. Other dreamers have also tried to block them, but they escaped. The atmosphere was very somber after that.
A bit after we were surprised by a visitor. It was the Dalai Lama who gave us some words of encouragement. There was a guy sitting behind me asking me some questions about if there was some protocol to follow, like how to address him or how to sit in front of him...., I guess because everybody knows I’m Buddhist and I would know this stuff, but I told him not to worry and just be natural.
After the Dalai Lama left us, someone handed us a paper with some writings on and asked us to make a prayer circle and for the health – I don’t remember if it was of someone’s health in particular, but I think it was for global health.
24 Jan: WILD from a FA and Dream Warriors School - Dream Journals - Dreamviews Lucid Dreaming Community & Resource

Originally Posted by Mayatara

By the way, I just had this interesting dream I think fits in the subject of this thread. Maybe some of you were there to!

I was not in that dream. Although I have had similair dreams like it months ago, although I didnt write it down so the details are foggy. Were you lucid?

This is a joke, right? I'm all for exploring the bounds of science such as precognitive dreaming, but a world of dream ninjas sent to fight evil on earth? Obsession like this is not healthy...

Originally Posted by Atras

I was not in that dream. Although I have had similair dreams like it months ago, although I didnt write it down so the details are foggy. Were you lucid?

Yes, of course! It was a WILD from a FA, so it was a lucid dream within a dream that I was awake. Can you picture that? That is why my control worked differently there. it was my first LD within a dream. I wonder if I just made this up or if there's really a reason why control would be different on a dream within a dream.

Originally Posted by LucidApprentice

This is a joke, right? I'm all for exploring the bounds of science such as precognitive dreaming, but a world of dream ninjas sent to fight evil on earth? Obsession like this is not healthy...

Well, when you try to debase it utilizing subjective relations...it does seem kind of odd. However, you should get more data on the subject before you make such an egocentric comment- as if you know everything there is to know about in the universe. Because in all reality, you really, really, really don't. I go from my experiences, and always say that their is much more that I do not know, as I am constantly reminded by this in every dream. This is not an obsession, it is an observation, one that if indeed true, would mean astonishing implications for the entire human race. You should get out of your cave more. I'm all for exploring whats outside the so-called "bounds" of science, because science doesn't know shit about the dream world. Not mainstream science, or even university science. Bounds of science, lol, do you even know what your saying? Science is meant to explore the unknown, it is a discipline dedicated to figuring out the unknown, and as such, should not be bounded by egos. This would prevent a user of this discipline from discovering new things. Get your ego out of science please, and ask all your buddies to do the same.

Science can only explain the laws of the physical plane, hence the word physics . It cannot explain, or fully explain the laws or nature of the astral and dream plane since they are not of the physical world. So saying that science doesn't support it is completely naive and illogical.

Originally Posted by Mayatara

Yes, of course! It was a WILD from a FA, so it was a lucid dream within a dream that I was awake. Can you picture that? That is why my control worked differently there. it was my first LD within a dream. I wonder if I just made this up or if there's really a reason why control would be different on a dream within a dream.

Yeah I've actually had a lucid dream within a lucid dream before, It was a weird experience, it was like I was aware but very had to control myself

Originally Posted by Atras

Science can only explain the laws of the physical plane, hence the word physics . It cannot explain, or fully explain the laws or nature of the astral and dream plane since they are not of the physical world. So saying that science doesn't support it is completely naive and illogical.

I think you're confused about what science is. It's very possible to use science to study the nature of dreams.

Yah, physics is a branch of science, not science itself. Have to agree with Mzzkc here. You just have to consider ALL possibilities, and then propose your analysis on the subject matter.

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

I think you're confused about what science is. It's very possible to use science to study the nature of dreams.

Yes it is possible to study the aspects of dreams with science, but to say that for example shared dreaming isn't real because science doesn't support it is absurd, because in theory, shared dreaming takes place on another plane of existence, that is beyond the borders of science. And yes I know physics is a branch of science , I used the word physics because physics is what explains the world and it's nature. I am not saying that science cannot explain dreams, only that we cannot rely on science to explain everything, or at least our current understanding of science. 100 years ago people thought it was impossible to travel the speed of sound yet we did. For anyone to say it is "an unhealthy obsession" to believe in something that is outside the boundries of science, that they themselves have experienced is so naive, considering that we know very little of the scientific nature of our universe as it is. And most people who would say this does not even understand science. Im not against people with different opinions, but to state something as a fact or to criticize people for their beliefs , especially in the name of "science" is absurd. If you jump to the future a million years when everyone knows everything and come back and still believe we are insane, then I'll listen

I still think you're misunderstanding what science is. Science isn't some thing or compendium of things that decrees what is and isn't so; it's a way of thinking, of analyzing information and determining truth.

Also, I've been to the distant future and talked with people about science, therefore you should believe me.

Your misunderstanding my point. Science describes nature and gives rational and logical explanations for things. If something occurs outside of the natural world, how can science describe it. For example, if someone believes in heaven, you can't say heaven doesnt exist because science can't prove it does. It's outside the natural world. It's the same withshared dreaming, the only exception is, people who are claiming of shared dreamings existence, have actually experienced it. I'm not trying to get into a debate on what the literal definition of science is, just that you can't rely on science to explain the supernatural Or the otherworldly, it is simply a matter of faith or experience.

Maybe sometime in the future when we have vastly superior insight on the universe we will be able to explain or disprove this stuff through science, but not now. It's simply a matter of , do u believe In it, yes or no, if you don't their are other threads for the discussion of the existence of such things. However last time I checked, the title of this thread was calling all dream warriors, not calling all skeptics

Originally Posted by Atras

Your misunderstanding my point.

No, I'm just letting you know that your definition of science is flawed. That little hiccup destroys your entire argument, which I find rather unfortunate.

Originally Posted by Atras

Science describes nature and gives rational and logical explanations for things.

Science cannot describe; science cannot give. These are what scientists do.

Originally Posted by Atras

If something occurs outside of the natural world, how can science describe it.

See above.

Originally Posted by Atras

For example, if someone believes in heaven, you can't say heaven doesnt exist because science can't prove it does.

Ambiguous sentence is ambiguous. Not sure which meaning you mean.

Originally Posted by Atras

It's outside the natural world. It's the same withshared dreaming,

What makes you think that shared dreaming occurs outside the natural world? Could you provide us evidence that supports your claim? I'm not too picky, even anecdotal evidence will do just fine.

Originally Posted by Atras

the only exception is, people who are claiming of shared dreamings existence, have actually experienced it.

This supports my point that science can be applied to determining the nature of dreams. A bastardization of it, sure, but that's to be expected.

Originally Posted by Atras

I'm not trying to get into a debate on what the literal definition of science is,

You speak of learning new things in your previous posts, yet you seem to be avoiding it yourself. If you don't have your basics down, your definitions, how can you hope to progress?

Originally Posted by Atras

just that you can't rely on science to explain the supernatural Or the otherworldly, it is simply a matter of faith or experience.

Again, I'm going to have to disagree with you here. After all, to turn BD's infamous, goto example back around, scientific exploration helped prove the earth was round.

Edit:

Originally Posted by Atras

Maybe sometime in the future when we have vastly superior insight on the universe we will be able to explain or disprove this stuff through science, but not now.

If we don't act now, it'll never happen.

Originally Posted by Atras

It's simply a matter of , do u believe In it, yes or no, if you don't their are other threads for the discussion of the existence of such things.

And left simply at yes, no, there can be no learning, no expansion of the mind. To not question is to put yourself in a very small box. You'll suffocate if you stay too long.

Originally Posted by Atras

However last time I checked, the title of this thread was calling all dream warriors, not calling all skeptics

Did you ever consider that some dream warriors may be skeptics?

I Agree with some points you are making and I respect the fact that you are giving reasonable arguments, while I do disagree with alot of it, I think we are going to have to Agee to disagree.

I agree with Mzzkc that dream sharing and related phenomena, including dreamplane and astral planes are not "unnatural". Everything there is is natural. What Atras means is that because there is yet no scientific theory that explains it's occurrence, it's existence is not accepted as a fact and it is therefore usually classified as "supernatural" or "beyond natural" and acceptance of its existence is left to the realm of faith. But Atras has a point that probably one day scientists will be able to explain it, measure it, etc and then it will finally be considered "natural". Then we will look back and ridicule those that consistently denied what then will be something so obvious that every human being will be able to experience. Thinking this way should humble us, so that either those who believe and those who don't, shouldn't go around calling each other crazy and obsessed. Only the future will tell who was right, but until then lets respect each point of view, because evolution in thought and in science comes from the civilized debate between the two.

And by the way, because I feel a bit lonely in my "craziness", I started to share my most meaningful dreams with my mom, who is very open minded and probably the only person I know with whom I can talk about my experiences. She believes so much they are real that she is afraid for my life. She says since she watched Inception, she can't feel reassured that my dream warrior activities are safe. She fears I might get damaged or hurt somehow. On those occasions even I tell her she shouldn't take all this too seriously, because even I don't! From my posts you might get the idea that I am 100% believer on all of this, yet, I am a scientist myself, so I naturally have this skeptic little person always watching from a corner in my mind and downplaying the "obsession" whenever I think it might be going too far.
In the end, no one can judge the level of obsession of others. My personal feeling is that people like Nomad and others around, who seem to be total nut jobs, have a very sharp sense of self-critique and are the first ones to be aware of the possibility of impossibility of everything they experience and share. I sometimes realize it is the others who totally dismiss their findings, who are the most obsessed ones. I might be wrong, but I do get this impression.

Originally Posted by Mayatara

I agree with Mzzkc that dream sharing and related phenomena, including dreamplane and astral planes are not "unnatural". Everything there is is natural. What Atras means is that because there is yet no scientific theory that explains it's occurrence, it's existence is not accepted as a fact and it is therefore usually classified as "supernatural" or "beyond natural" and acceptance of its existence is left to the realm of faith. But Atras has a point that probably one day scientists will be able to explain it, measure it, etc and then it will finally be considered "natural".

Scientisits already know about etheric matter, a little denser than astral matter, they call it dark matter. They know it's there but cant quantitatively prove it yet.

Science
sci·ence   
–noun
1.
a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws: the mathematical sciences.
2.
systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation.
3.
any of the branches of natural or physical science.
4.
systematized knowledge in general.
5.
knowledge, as of facts or principles; knowledge gained by systematic study.
6.
a particular branch of knowledge.
7.
skill, esp. reflecting a precise application of facts or principles; proficiency.

There are many definitions of science.

Atras, read Entangled Minds by Dean Radin. Also, The Sense of Being Stared At by Rupert Sheldrake. These authors are both scientists studying the "paranormal."

Originally Posted by mcwillis

Scientisits already know about etheric matter, a little denser than astral matter, they call it dark matter. They know it's there but cant quantitatively prove it yet.

I know what dark matter is, and it has nothing to do with dreaming