Thread: Dream plane existance

I'm getting a vibe that here is a problem of different paradigms. New and generally acceptable paradigm is that of study of lucid dreams. If I come from that point of view I could say that anything other people experience is just one display of power of lucid dreaming. Anything can be explained as possible in subjective lucid dream. If someone makes up a story (experienced or not) others can manufacture it (sub)consciously in their dreams.

Then again these "mystic" phenomenas are not new to men nor new to study. Older paradigms made by people who have studied these fields of world, subjectively, in groups, sharing experiences, making methods, tasks, testing them and coming together in some kind of common view and common laws have formed a paradigm that fits the field. It's easy to say from a modern viewpoint that they are covered with superstition. What is harder to see that the way they've formed isn't so far from scientific study. It has been science, of an "inner world rather than outer".

I've found many shamanistic worldviews in touch of my experience of reality, and also that of dreams. Not only after I've read about them but I've been going to that direction before it. In those cultures dreaming meant much more to people than nowadays. It was a common habit to tell dreams to others, to seek vision from them and help others understand them. Some tribes gathered together every morning and told their dreams aloud because it was held signifigant that tribes dreamt the same dream and by understanding them, they understood the universe. I tend to think that it's arrogant to think that they haven't known very much about the nature of dreaming after very long periods of taking dreams seriously and constantly giving them space vocally and mentally in their waking life.

I admit, these views might seem childish or supernatural to a modern mindset. Dream yoga on the other hand is much closer to a scientific approach. It's not as much a religion rather than a method of exploring consciousness, and in dream yoga, a method of exploring consciousness during sleeping hours.

I'm not so much of a fan of ether/astral/mental/causal-bodies, because I don't like the way they are popularized in New Age thinking. That's 'cause they are viewed and theorized in many diverse ways. In a way, they are different wavelenghts of consciousness (this is just a metaphor) that can be studied and experienced. It's possible to experience something like them in lucid dreaming especially after reading about them. An entirely different thing is to experience them (even if the experience is during ld). It's not just dreaming of being without arms and legs. It's a whole new area of experience, and it's like Plato's cave example or "one cannot be told what the Matrix is". You have to experience it yourself and it's a changing experience. I'm not saying that it's bigger than dreaming. I'm just saying that if you try to share it with, let's say a lucid dreamer, he will just interpret it rationally through his experiences of lucid dreams. The experience doesn't transfer through verbal waking logic. It would be helpful if someone could project their consciousness (as some Tibetian Buddhist are claimed to be able to do)

The modern way on how these bodies (and in a way it's just a system to view consciousness and mind-body - like chakras) have been studied, experienced and defined comes mainly from theosophists. I would suggest taking their work under scrutiny and go with their paradigm (or with Oshos or with some other well-defined system), if only as a game of what if. Try first, talk after is a good advice. And don't go with a modern lazy attitude: if this doesn't work in a week it must be BS. If you get a real other-body experience during ld that just cuts it (gives a experience you can't subjectivly deny afterwards even if you try) it sounds like a real experience even if it happens during a dream.

The thought of an Astral Body is about a body capable of traveling stars and planets. It is strongly connected to emotions and it can be experienced not only in astral projections and dream astral projections but also by shifting your consciousness between different planets and starts during waking state. (I speak only of my own experience and I'm not trying to prove anything) It's a system like that of trying to experience consciousness throught different chakras. From mythology and occult knowledge you can study effect of different places. Of course this can be considered as self-inflicted hypnosis. But even if it is so, it's worth of try. At the same time it gives you a map of actual astral projections for what it might be worth.

IMO anyone's causal body is the size of a whole universe. When it's tied to subjective I, it has different densities in different areas of the universe depending on the subjective I... just to play with your thoughts

What then is a dream body? How does it relate to AB? In a dream it's fairly common watch your body from a 3rd person view. "Dreambody" can act even more strangely. I've been in my dreambody and watching it from outside at the same time. I've been reading a book in a dream and adventuring as a main character in that story simultaneously. During designing games (rpg and boardgames) in waking life, the dream me became even more complex: I was playing the game as I was a character living in the game world and also had this third person who was incorporaly designing the game and making changes to the rules.
...

I find this topic and conversation intresting but I think that the conversation about dream realms would improve if people could make the effort to familiarize themselves with different paradigms. They are not just a random soup of superstition mixed with some interesting dreams, but worldviews that have developed through time.

I think that i have made up my idea on the question : ap oob are just ld with different emotions ,dream plane & astral plane is all in your mind although i believe in shared dreams and premonition

@labyrint: Nobody here defined the astral plane theory "bullshit". Just a clear delusion for most people who blindly follow it.
This thread was about evidence, which of course is hard to provide, and evolved in the "it's okay, just... why do you believe in that?" direction.
I asked at least 10 times what single tiny detail in anyone's experience might suggest that there's something more than intense lucid dreaming experiences.
What can you think when someone refuses to answer and keeps repeating "you don't understand, you are blind"? Yeah -- they have no clue.
If I had some kind of foggy premonition, or saw anything that my mind could hardly have generated, I'd write it and forget about others' opinions.
Yet, nothing at all. "Pro" thread makers disappearing, noone can explain why APs are different than very scientific OBEs.
I can master visions and feeling in my dreams and OBEs, wishful thinking is useless to me.
And this is different than only believing in first-hand experiences, since I think there's something true in what Shadowofwind wrote.

One problem with the systems of guys like Osho, is everything they teach is bent towards keeping themselves at the top of a rather sick power structure. Another closely related problem is ego. They perceive themselves as being so far psychically and intellectually ahead other people that they start giving the weight of Truth to their every conjecture. From what I can see, this sort of thing has been a problem throughout history - none of the eastern teachings, Patanjali, or whatever, are in my view entirely trustworthy. Although I wouldn't say its all bullshit, I would say that its all at least partially bullshit.

A further issue is that their systems of thought are limited by a lack of scientific and mathematical sophistication. Although the modern era isn't humanity's peak for all kinds of wisdom, its pretty good in some areas, and we might as well try to make the most of that.

All of us have at least slightly different motives, and these motives qualify and distort our perceptions. My motives have to do with moral transformation, and with mental sobriety: I want to understand things as they really are. Of course I've got emotional insecurities and power lusts also, but I try to keep those in check because I can see that they are incompatible with my other goals.

I find that currently available systems of thought having to do with astral planes are inadequate. Somehow I've got to clear my mind of all their limiting and delusional aspects so that I can take further steps. I've gotten as far as I have in large part because of my willingness to do that. In that regard I'm entirely in agreement with those who ask the pointed questions, because that's part of how we do that.

Keeping it up

again in quest for answer i am keeping it up

Originally Posted by wana

again in quest for answer i am keeping it up

You are not going to find your answer on the internet. You will only find it in dreams. Go to sleep.

sharing dreams does not necessarily mean the eexistance of a dream plane it could be just an unknown brain function because centuries ago people thought that magnetism was magic

Originally Posted by wana

again in quest for answer i am keeping it up

I agree with you that its a question worth asking. But its also apparently not a question that anybody is very well equipped to answer presently. So you may not get any answers here. I think that heaven, so to speak, does want us to talk about this question though, rather than going off and trying to solve it entirely by ourselves.

The "seek and ye shall find" promise seems to me to apply to all questions. If you keep asking it, and if you keep all the appropriate doors open, and are willing to do whatever hard work is required, eventually you'll get an answer. Furthermore if at least two people are asking the same question, and willing to cooperate towards the answer, then this helps tremendously.

I agree that a better metaphor is needed than 'dream plane', and that its important to find one. A plane is a two dimensional Euclidean metric space. That can't possibly be what people mean when they speak of a dream plane. We should find more appropriate words to describe what we are talking about, and if we lack such words, we should invent some new ones. Otherwise, our minds become limited by the sloppiness of our thinking.

Originally Posted by wana

sharing dreams does not necessarily mean the eexistance of a dream plane it could be just an unknown brain function because centuries ago people thought that magnetism was magic

Correct. There is no way to prove it. You can only experience it. Oh, did you not know? Magnetism is magic. How is it not?

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

I agree with you that its a question worth asking. But its also apparently not a question that anybody is very well equipped to answer presently. So you may not get any answers here. I think that heaven, so to speak, does want us to talk about this question though, rather than going off and trying to solve it entirely by ourselves.

The "seek and ye shall find" promise seems to me to apply to all questions. If you keep asking it, and if you keep all the appropriate doors open, and are willing to do whatever hard work is required, eventually you'll get an answer. Furthermore if at least two people are asking the same question, and willing to cooperate towards the answer, then this helps tremendously.

I agree that a better metaphor is needed than 'dream plane', and that its important to find one. A plane is a two dimensional Euclidean metric space. That can't possibly be what people mean when they speak of a dream plane. We should find more appropriate words to describe what we are talking about, and if we lack such words, we should invent some new ones. Otherwise, our minds become limited by the sloppiness of our thinking.

World English Dictionary
plane 1 (pleɪn)

— n
1. maths a flat surface in which a straight line joining any two of its points lies entirely on that surface
2. a flat or level surface
3. a level of existence, performance, attainment, etc
4. a. short for aeroplane
b. a wing or supporting surface of an aircraft or hydroplane

My point is that when most people say 'level of existence', they have an image in their minds about what that means, but they haven't thought very clearly into what it means to 'exist' on a 'level'.

If its not a question you're interested in trying to answer that's great, different people work on different stuff. I'm grateful that you pursue what you pursue, it probably helps all of us. But its ignorant to blow the question off as if there can't be anything there of possible importance that you're not already aware of. That's the same smug mentality as skeptics who disbelieve in shared dreaming because its not what they themselves are experts in.

Telling people that they have to experience it directly, and leaving it at that, is a cop-out. I've got enough mental reach that if there is anything that you know about the dream plane that I don't know, and which you are clear about in your mind, you should be able to describe it to me in words, so that I can go there and experience something of it also, even now while I'm awake. Its true that the words don't capture the full meaning, a person has to look behind the words, but I can do that also if the words are right. If you're not interested that's fine, but its not unreasonable for wana to continue asking in case other people are, if that's what's important to him. Likewise for myself.

Wakingnomad: If you think that myself or others have been rude or dismissive of other people and what they know when asking our questions, then I acknowledge that you have a point there, and I apologize for my part of that.

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

My point is that when most people say 'level of existence', they have an image in their minds about what that means, but they haven't thought very clearly into what it means to 'exist' on a 'level'.

If its not a question you're interested in trying to answer that's great, different people work on different stuff. I'm grateful that you pursue what you pursue, it probably helps all of us. But its ignorant to blow the question off as if there can't be anything there of possible importance that you're not already aware of. That's the same smug mentality as skeptics who disbelieve in shared dreaming because its not what they themselves are experts in.

Telling people that they have to experience it directly, and leaving it at that, is a cop-out. I've got enough mental reach that if there is anything that you know about the dream plane that I don't know, and which you are clear about in your mind, you should be able to describe it to me in words, so that I can go there and experience something of it also, even now while I'm awake. Its true that the words don't capture the full meaning, a person has to look behind the words, but I can do that also if the words are right. If you're not interested that's fine, but its not unreasonable for wana to continue asking in case other people are, if that's what's important to him. Likewise for myself.

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

Wakingnomad: If you think that myself or others have been rude or dismissive of other people and what they know when asking our questions, then I acknowledge that you have a point there, and I apologize for my part of that.

I have spent a lot of time writing my ideas on dreams. The ones I think are most important are in the Shared Dreaming FAQ in my signature. Below are three former posts I wrote about the Dream Plane, and Why I am Not Trying to Prove Shared Dreaming.

Laws of the Dream Plane, Dream Battle Theory
If you think this is ridiculous, please test out these laws in your lucid dream battles to see if they work or not. I challenge you to disprove these laws through your dreams.

To understand dream Battling, you must understand the Laws of the Dream Plane. Just as there are physical laws, physics, there are dreamical laws, dreamics.

First some laws of the dream plane:

1) The dream plane is made of pure energy.

2) Thoughts are pure energy.

3) There are different types of beings in dreams: DC's, dreamers, interdimensional beings, non-sentient beings, and semi-sentient beings.

a) DC's: Dream Characters. Manifestations of a dreamer's mind. They will disappear as soon as the dream stops thinking about them.
b) Dreamers: Other dreamers from Earth, the physical plane.
c) Inter-dimensional Beings: Sentient beings not from earth.
d) non-sentient beings: these creatures are alive, yet have the mind of a simple organism such as a clam.
e) semi-sentient: these are creatures that are partially aware of themselves, such as many animals.

4) We all have an Inner World. Our Inner World is an infinite world of our subconscious mind's creation. "My" dream is a dream in my Inner World.

5) The Outer World is the dream plane beyond a meeting of minds. The Outer World is another total plane of existence.

6) Each Dimension is made of three planes: the dream plane, the physical plane, the astral plane.

The Physical Plane
The physical plane is where the physical waking world is.

The Astral Plane
The astral plane is between the dream plane and the physical. The astral plane is the real of remote viewing and astral projection. In the astral plane, you perceive some of the physical plane, and some of the dream plane simultaneously. Remote viewers are taught to filter out the dream plane, and focus on the physical by keeping their eyes open. Astral projection is more spiritually focused, and intentional AP'ers (which is inducing and out-of-body-experience), will be more aware of the dream plane. People astral project in their sleep all the time.

The Dream Plane
The dream plane is a plane of pure energy. Thought appears instantly on the dream plane. Intelligent and creative people can be very powerful on the dream plane no matter what state their physical body is in.

Different types of Battle scenarios:

Dreamer vs. DC's:
If you are fighting your own DC's, you can instantly kill them all, love them all, or ignore them, and they will be instantly defeated. If you are battling another person's DC's, you are indirectly fighting that person, so see the rules of dreamer vs. dreamer, and dreamer vs. sentient being.

Dreamer vs. Dreamer:
- In this scenario archetype, attention, and energy are all key.

Dreamer vs. Inter-dimensional or Sentient Being
- The rules are basically the same for fighting dreamer vs. dreamer, but generally inter-dimensional beings are more aware of the dream plane, especially whether they are in someone else's dream, their dream, a mix of the two, or in the Outer World. They may or may not have a physical body in their home dimension. They may have been living on the dream plane for centuries, or untold millennia, therefore can be extremely powerful.

Archetypes
Archetype means our frame of reference. Here's an example: You are into magic, so you shoot fireballs at an enemy. He becomes a water elemental, and puts out your fireballs. Another person fires a gun instead. The opponent becomes a block of granite. These are examples of a countering defense based on archetype. A good example of this is the wizard vs. witch battle at the end of The Sword in the Stone. Other examples of dream battling: Dragon Ball Z, Avatar, D&D.

- Even if you ignore a dreamer's attack, you will still get attacked, because the other dreamer is sending antagonistic energy toward you which will not disappear just because you ignore the dreamer, since the dreamer is more than a manifestation of your thought.

- There is always a weakness in every attack that can be exploited for a defensive counterattack. The weakness is based on the originator's archetypes. For example: The weakness of fire is water.

Attention
Attention is focusing energy. If you give another dreamer too much attention, they can actually steal your energy.

Example: Tooth moves to attack me in slow motion, with a giant zombie fist. I am fascinated yet disgusted with the detail of the zombie fist. I can see the rotting flesh, and even maggots crawling in it. I want to puke. BAM! He socks me right in the forehead.

So, in the example, I gave so much attention to his fist, it consumed my thoughts for a split second, and he was able to get a hit in. In other words, he stole my energy for a second by stealing my attention.

Energy can be pulled using attention in any way. Using Cuteness, Beauty, Sexiness, Disgustingness, Size, Ugliness, Hilarity, Sympathy, Fear are some techniques to name a few.

Solution: Learn how to be aware of everything. Do not allow any one thing to draw your focus for too long. This can be likened to Perseus using a shield as a mirror so as not to look into the face of Medusa.

Energy

The entire dream plane is energy. Therefore ignoring another dreamer's attack is not effective. Energy gives us strength and endurance. There are basically two types of attacks, a pull attack, and a push attack. A pull attack is taking the opponent's energy away.

Dreamer vs. Non-sentient beings

Non-sentient beings that will attack you are parasites. The benign non-sentient beings draw energy from the ambient energy. There are also non-sentient beings that draw energy from these, like animals, and so on. These parasites attach to you, or infect your dream body and feed off of your energy.

Dreamer vs. Semi-Sentient Beings

These may be beings evolving toward sentience. They are like many of the animals, such as dogs, which have a level of sentience, but not to the level of elephants, dolphins, or humans. These may be simple minded, but they may have been living on the dream plane for a long time. They may attack in packs or swarms.

***

Secrets of the Dream Plane
Question:
If this information is important, why are you only revealing it now?

Answer:
Because, when I learned of this, there was no one ready to hear it.

Question:
And why are people ready for it now?

Evolution
We are evolving technologically and an exponential rate. Stephen Hawking said it best, (paraphrased) technological evolution is evolution. Because of this, lucid dreamers can meet in a virtual world, the internet, and practice meeting on the dream plane. The internet is a physical manifestation of the dream plane. It's humans trying to recreate what we once had before the Great Deluge.

Because of technology, we can communicate on a mass scale for a small amount of money. Now millions of people are thinking about shared dreaming because of Avatar and Inception as a result of technology.

We are evolving spiritually. People are beginning to wake up all over the world. 2012 will bring a great shift in the consciousness of humanity.

The Present
The present is one big single moment. We exist in the past, present, and future. We exist in parallel universes AKA dimensions.

Question: Is shared dreaming real?
Fuck yes. Next.

Answer: No, but really. You guys are lying... aren't you?
Yes. All 50 of us. And the hundreds and thousand more that will join us in the coming years on the dream plane. We are all lying.

Question: How do you get all this information?

Answer:
Research on the dream plane, mainly. Personal observation. Some things I have learned from others. I test their theories with my own observations, and they make sense with what I perceive. A lot of it is already in my dream journal actually, in conversations with entities.

WTF OVER. Entities? So, other sentient spirits exist other than humans?

Answer:
Yes. Next.

QUestion:
How can you tell the difference between an entity and another dreamer.

Answer:
You can't. We are all entities.

Question:
How are non-dreamers of Earth, let's say, sentient entities different from humans?

Answer:
They differ vastly. I have encountered, angels, aliens, demons, gods, vampires, werewolves, witches, cyborgs, androids, cartoon characters even.

Question:
That is ridiculous. Cartoon characters are fictitious. Are you serious?

Answer:
Yes. In a multiverse of infinite possibilities, everything is true. To test this theory, simply do the Ignore Test on a cartoon character next time you see them.

Question:
Tell me the history of the Dream Plane.

Answer:
The dream plane stretches into the infinite past. But, as far as recent history goes:

Urth
Urth is the dream plane version of Earth.

There are two gods battling for control of Urth: Gawn AKA The Dream Warrior Master AKA Yoda AKA Pan AKA The Devil AKA Lucifer AKA Pan AKA Noah AKA The Great Progenitor, and Nevergawn AKA the God of This World AKA Baphomet AKA Satan AKA The Enemy.

The History of Gawn
Gawn, like many Higher Beings appears differently to different people. He looks like The Devil to me, because I was taught that Pan is the Devil. To Raven he appears as Yoda.

Gawn is the Dream Warrior Master. He has a colony where Dream Warriors are initiated, and also receive training.

Gawn was once a genetic experiment of the Annunaki, the aliens who came here in antideluvian times. He was half-goat, half-man. I was one of them myself. Because he had the soul of a god, he was very powerful, and had a cunning intellect. The Annunaki flooded the earth to start over because they regretted their genetic experiments, and everything was going haywire. Because there were so many half-human half-animal people having sex with humans, then animals, humans starting having sex with animals. Humans started eating humans. Lines became blurred. The world went batshit insane.

Gawn built a giant submersible, The Ark, and saved himself, and a few artifacts and as much living things as he could take from the old earth.

The Annunaki were displeased with him, but it was one of their own souls that had deliberately reincarnated into the body of this Earthling. Gawn helped found the New Earth.

The Annunaki were angry that animal genes were now in the humans gene pool, because of Gawn's goat parts.

They hunted Gawn down, and killed him, but they were not very spiritually advanced Gawn. Gawn learned from the ways of the Earthlings. All the humans were connected in a giant telepathic network. They had been preparing for a great war against the gods AKA the Annunaki. The Annunaki learned of this, and so destroyed the humans. They had a few shamans that could invade the minds and dreams of the humans, but they were a very technologically advanced civilization, and dismissed mental telepathy eons ago.

When Gawn died, he became the Dream Warrior Master. He battled all the Annunaki on the dream plane, to cut off their surveillance of the earthlings. The Annunaki attacked Gawn all together on the dream plane, and were successful at dispersing his energy many times. Gawn became angry, and divided his energy in two. One sphere he exploded into millions of particles, and sent them all to Urth to bond with the souls of the humans. The other half he kept for himself. He is still very powerful, and we are his children, or at least some of us are. Gawn has one great adversary.

Nevergawn
Nevergawn is the brother of Gawn. Nevergawn was a minotaur in his last physical life. He was also a goat god in another life, but he had a goat head, unlike his brother who had a human head. He also had breasts and a penis. He was a mistake. He couldn't get laid, obviously. He hated that his brother with the same he-goat parts could get laid. He hated his body and his life, and he cursed Gawn, and cursed the Annunaki for even creating such a fucked up vessel. He gathered a following, then sacrificed himself, because he realized he'd be even more powerful on the dream plane. He licked the boots of the Annunaki, and became the personal assassin of Gawn. He killed Gawn over and over again, but Gawn just kept respawning and laughing at him. Realizing that souls are immortal, Nevergawn instead decided to take control of Urth for the Annunaki.
He is an archdemon. He desires to control Urth totally and has proclaimed himself The God of This World. He is the god of war, he is the bloodthirsty Jah, demanding sacrifice, and ordering people to kill men women and children. He loves war, for where there is war, nightmares follow. He who controls Urth controls Earth, for what happens on Urth is much more lasting.
He recognized the shamanic weakness of the Annunaki, and learned from humans their ways after befriending them, only so he could subjugate them on the dream plane, thus weakening them on the other planes of existence, and stealing their energy.

Nevergawn feeds on suffering. He loves suffering in every sick and demented form. He is worshipped by the Templars as Baphomet. If you want to see a ceremony of these creepy fucks worshipping a form of Baphomet, the Great Owl, watch Dark Secrets: Inside Bohemian Grove.

The War of the Wyrms

Wormholes are ways between dream worlds, and ways to warp. Whee! The wormholes are guarded by the Wormhole Wyrms. Nevergawn wanted to take control of the wormholes. He can't kill the wyrms, for they are immortal, so instead, he ripped their dream bodies apart, and sliced them into pieces. Many of the wormholes exiting Urth have a wormhole with a wyrm that needs healing. Piece the dragon back together, and he will cleanse the wormhole, and guard it from astral parasites.

And this is why it's hard to go to the Moon.

People don't often perceive wormholes, just as you do not perceive yourself blinking. Every time you leave one dream world and go to another, you go through a wormhole.

Question:

Who are the Templars?

The Templars are the New World Order AKA Illuminati. They believe they have secret knowledge and are particularly spiritually illuminated. They are eugenicists. They want to purify the human race. At one time they were trying hybridization, but now they are focusing on genetically engineering a superhuman race. Their goal is create a one world government by any means possible, and turn the entire planet into a giant prison.

Question: Who are the RV Templars?

Answer: A branch off the CIA's remote viewing programs. The CIA found that certain people were better on the dream plane than on the astral plane, which is where remote viewing takes place. (Remote viewing is for seeing physical objects.) The Canadian-American-Mexican-Russian government formed a secret Dream Corps of military psychics. They are also excellent remote viewers. The invade dreams of people, and make people have nightmares, or may often just be doing surveillance. Their ultimate goal is to kill people through inducing nightmares. This has always been their goal. It is considered the perfect murder in the Assassin community. One who performs such a feat is a master Assassin, and a perfect tool of the Illuminati.

So you are saying it is actually possible to kill someone in a dream? I have read other posts of yours refuting this.

I was not able to reveal the full truth until now. But, the time is getting critical. The New World Order have their chess pieces in place, and things are going according to their plan. However, though they are strong financially and politically, and they control the media, and a lot of wars and foreign policy, they are extremely weak on the dream plane.
The only way to kill someone from inside a dream is to induce a heart attack because of a nightmare. So, the target would have to be prone to that in the first place.

Why would you reveal such a horrible truth? Aren't you worried that people will try and kill their enemies this way?

I am revealing it because it is the time. This is the Templars' Great Desire. But, do not be afraid, because such a feat would take great dream skill on the part of the assassin, and great physical weakness in the victim.

Aren't you afraid the Templars will try this now?
They are already trying it.

Question:
What is your whole purpose of trying to get people to get into shared dreaming?

Answer:
To create a global network of Dreamwalkers, so we can still communicate if shit hits the fan.

Question:
Seriously. You are going to do this?

Answer:
No. We are.

Why I am not Trying to Prove Shared Dreaming
People keep asking me to prove shared dreaming. No. It's not that I refuse, it's that I cannot.

Please understand, that on my own, behind the scenes, without telling everyone on DV, I have contacted every scientist in the U.S. that studies dreams. No one is interested in shared dreaming experiments. They are probably afraid of studying the "paranormal" because they are afraid it will ruin their reputation.

All shared dreaming experiments over the internet will always be flawed because it's impossible to keep the dreamers from contacting each other.

The only way to prove shared dreaming scientifically is to isolate the dreamers in sleep labs.

***

So many people want to be convinced. This I do not understand. "Convince me, then I'll try it," seems to be a pervasive attitude. Why? What have you got to lose by trying shared dreaming? You are asleep anyway for chrissakes.

I cannot prove shared dreaming is real. You cannot prove it is not real. If you think it might be, and are interested, I may relate to you my experiences with the phenomenon. If you don't believe it, why are you wasting your time trying to convince people that it's not real? Why don't you instead spend that energy doing research on how to become lucid more often, for example? Or, ask your Dream Guide about shared dreaming? If you haven't met your Dream Guide, I strongly suggest you do.

***

Another thing that a lot of people fail to realize, is that a lot of people that can do shared dreaming regularly are advanced lucid dreamers. My point in saying that is that regular shared dreaming is an advanced skill that must be built up to. Rome was not built in a day.

I have been having lucid dreams ever since I was a child. I have been controlling my dreams for about twenty years. My first confirmed shared dream was six years ago.

Raven Knight did shared dreaming repeatedly for years, around ten I think, before we met.

It does take effort, practice and intent. Please do not be discouraged because you do not get it on a few tries. Raven and I got it on the first try, true, but both of us had already had confirmed shared dreams.

WORK

You must research different methods of Recall and Lucidity.

You must be open-minded.

You must tenaciously persist.

You must really put your intent into it.

You must be patient with yourself.

Shared Dreaming is not easy, but it is rewarding.

I visited your dream plane last night. The most notable thing to me was that it's cold there, at least as experienced from my perspective, not a lot of love. I hope I don't offend by saying that, but you seem to be a person who appreciates directness, and that was my first impression. You also appeared to me to have a strong and intelligent spirit.

So true, be a practioner and come to your own conclusions based on your personal experience. Create your truth.

Originally Posted by WakingNomad

You are not going to find your answer on the internet. You will only find it in dreams. Go to sleep.

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

I visited your dream plane last night. The most notable thing to me was that it's cold there, at least as experienced from my perspective, not a lot of love. I hope I don't offend by saying that, but you seem to be a person who appreciates directness, and that was my first impression. You also appeared to me to have a strong and intelligent spirit.

Please write the dream down in your DJ.

Originally Posted by dreamcatcher81

So true, be a practioner and come to your own conclusions based on your personal experience. Create your truth.

Yes. This what I live by. We have to live in order to really live.