Thread: Shared Dreaming Debate

Originally Posted by Jakob

LOL!!!

I have no doubt that you were dreaming of your family members. Nothing more than that.

Ok buddy, you think shared dreaming "might" exist, so wth are you 'ing about??? You and your other sidekick agreeing to each others posts look like this >

He never experienced it and therefore thinks it can't be real.

Me and my dad used to have the same dreams, EVERY SINGLE DETAIL! This happened many times when I was a little girl. In the morning I would start telling my dad what I dreamt about, and he would just be amazed and complete my sentences, basically describing my dream from beginning to end! There was a repetitive dream in which me and my dad took revenge on our neighbors. We were in bad relations with them in real life, because the neighbor's son (Harold) was an idiot. He used to break our windows (on purpose), steal our belongings, and also tried to poison our dog! His dad was always jealous of my dad, because he had a bigger house and a better job. So in this dream, me and my dad decided to take revenge.

We broke into their house with weapons, and did anything and everything that we could think of. My dad recalled everything I recalled, and the other way around. This proves that our dreams were shared dreams indeed!

Neither of us was lucid in these dreams, but nonetheless they were amazing experiences. I wish I could re-create these shared dreams, but as I said, they diminished when I got a little older. I also had a couple of shared dreams with my mom and my brother, but they weren't that intense.

Originally Posted by Fechtel

He never experienced it and therefore thinks it can't be real.

Nonsense. I never said it can't be real. I only said I haven't seen evidence for it's existence at this time.

Me and my dad used to have the same dreams, EVERY SINGLE DETAIL! This happened many times when I was a little girl. In the morning I would start telling my dad what I dreamt about, and he would just be amazed and complete my sentences, basically describing my dream from beginning to end!

I have a problem believing what you say. How old were you, if I may ask? Did your dad simply say "I dreamt the same thing!" or did he actually complete your sentences?

We broke into their house with weapons, and did anything and everything that we could think of.

What exactly do you mean? What was the "anything" and "everything" ?

Originally Posted by Jakob

Nonsense. I never said it can't be real. I only said I haven't seen evidence for it's existence at this time.


I have a problem believing what you say. How old were you, if I may ask? Did your dad simply say "I dreamt the same thing!" or did he actually complete your sentences?


What exactly do you mean? What was the "anything" and "everything" ?

Originally Posted by hathor28

Wtf?

Originally Posted by hathor28

Ok buddy, you think shared dreaming "might" exist, so wth are you 'ing about??? You and your other sidekick agreeing to each others posts look like this >

Please tell me, Hathor, that you're not thinking I'm his sidekick.

If you are, then not only are you amazingly wrong, your snap judgment was more than a little offensive.

Attempting to maintain a conversation that doesn't come to cyber-blows, or simply being polite, should not label a person as a sidekick.

Hopefully you were referring to someone else, and if you were, please name them so they have a chance to respond to your reprehensible behavior.

Wow....

When two people see the same car accident, they will tell two different stories...Supposedly, its the same car accident, and yet the details seem different depending whom you speak with.
To understand shared dreaming and dreaming in general, looking outside of your own perspective is helpful. Dreams are much deeper than the imagery involved. The actual experience varies from person to person so shared dreaming may never be "scientific" as interpreted using the scientific method. What is possible is long term observation of patterns.
It seems most people look for a smoking gun like they would actually believe if they saw. Truth be told, they will look for an explanation against any unusual claim rather than accept the given evidence. That is why science proves itself wrong time and time again. It tries to find the holy grail of truth when we are all experiencing life subjectively. This "objective reality" science likes to fantasize about is ruled out simply with philosophical reasoning.
So is shared dreaming real? Only if you experience it, otherwise you will still believe there is no man behind the curtain. That really is the truth of science though. Those things we can experience are true. Ironically, experiments are usually conducted when there is at least minimal certainty a conclusion might be reached.
At any rate, even mapping out the mechanics of shared dreaming would take a massive perspective change for most people. Observing the unconscious is like watching the ocean; for every moment of time, there is a new ocean. Every second brings a new wave with new shapes and lines. How can science hope to repeat an observation of a snowflake or a cloud?
No skeptics, take your limited minds back to the rain forest. Your security blanket is waiting.

Originally Posted by jakob

Nonsense. I never said it can't be real. I only said I haven't seen evidence for it's existence at this time.

Personal testimony isn't evidence? That is all science has ever been. The only check or balance in science is the personal observation of others; aka peer review, which is exactly what we are involved in here right now. The only way to convince you is to bring our experience into your reality. Of course, you actually have to imagine these people are interpreting their experience correctly. If you are not willing to trust yourself and empathize, sharing dreaming or reality with anyone will be very difficult for you.

Originally Posted by Sageous

If you are, then not only are you amazingly wrong, your snap judgment was more than a little offensive.

I'll be your sidekick sageous, then we can make snap judgments about people making snap judgments together!

btw...shared dreaming is bullshit...or something...it doesnt really matter what we say does it.

Originally Posted by Chimpertainment

Personal testimony isn't evidence? That is all science has ever been. The only check or balance in science is the personal observation of others; aka peer review, which is exactly what we are involved in here right now. The only way to convince you is to bring our experience into your reality. Of course, you actually have to imagine these people are interpreting their experience correctly. If you are not willing to trust yourself and empathize, sharing dreaming or reality with anyone will be very difficult for you.

Nonsense. Personal testimony is just that -- a story someone is telling. A controlled study is something completely different.

People claim they have visions of Christ. People claim they talk to God. People claim God answers back. People claim lots of things.

Do you accept all these claims as "science"?

I'll be your sidekick sageous, then we can make snap judgments about people making snap judgments together!

btw...shared dreaming is bullshit...or something...it doesnt really matter what we say does it.

You condemn people for believing in God because of lack of scientific evidence, yet for shared dreaming the evidence is irrelevant. We should just all accept it as fact, simply because people on an internet forum say they experience it.

Hypocrisy at it's finest.

Sorry i wasn't mentioning you but nice try keep guessing

Originally Posted by Sageous

Please tell me, Hathor, that you're not thinking I'm his sidekick.

If you are, then not only are you amazingly wrong, your snap judgment was more than a little offensive.

Attempting to maintain a conversation that doesn't come to cyber-blows, or simply being polite, should not label a person as a sidekick.

Hopefully you were referring to someone else, and if you were, please name them so they have a chance to respond to your reprehensible behavior.

WHY THE HECK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT RELIGION AND SCIENCE??! IF YOU DIDN'T KNOOOOW? THOSE 2 CAN'T BE MIXED WELL IN DEBATING! YOU ARE MAKING YOURSELF LOOK STUPID AND MAKING THIS DEBATE GOING TOWARDS>

Originally Posted by Jakob

Nonsense. Personal testimony is just that -- a story someone is telling. A controlled study is something completely different.

People claim they have visions of Christ. People claim they talk to God. People claim God answers back. People claim lots of things.

Do you accept all these claims as "science"?


You condemn people for believing in God because of lack of scientific evidence, yet for shared dreaming the evidence is irrelevant. We should just all accept it as fact, simply because people on an internet forum say they experience it.

Hypocrisy at it's finest.

Originally Posted by hathor28

Wow, real mature. -_-

The whole concept behind discussing whether Dream Sharing is possible is completely useless, yet everyone persists. Can we not just all agree that it may be possible and drop the bullshit. I hope this thread matures and we can continue to hear experiences, and discuss the possible means by which dream sharing could be made possible.

Yet another fool comes in and saves the day how sweet.

Originally Posted by fennecgirl

Wow, real mature. -_-

Some people can't be bothered with, and i can tell you once those who don't agree and keep talking after my last post here now? They will look even more ignorant and just want to continue with off topic posts. People just want to show off here and have no back up in what they are saying.
Anyways happy debating, while i just watch Jakob and his other back ups look stupid

Originally Posted by dutchraptor

The whole concept behind discussing whether Dream Sharing is possible is completely useless, yet everyone persists. Can we not just all agree that it may be possible and drop the bullshit. I hope this thread matures and we can continue to hear experiences, and discuss the possible means by which dream sharing could be made possible.

"@Hathor28: I'm sorry, but you're contributing nothing to this conversation. This thread is for mature debate about shared dreaming. If you're just going to insult anybody who disagrees with you without even listening to what they have to say, then please get out. You're not debating; you're just being immature and ruining the debate for everyone."

^Keep telling yourself that
Btw, read my post at 2nd page, see why i voted and for what, seems like YOU are not listening or actually care what this debate is for honey.
Why didn't you debate on when i quoted you on page 3 top post? Fennecgirl? Is it because you don't know what i am talking about? I'm sure, because you obviously don't know what you are talking about and actually debating about. It does look very bad in your book.
Why would i have to repeat my experiences to people like you who don't believe in this and actually will try and insult?
I am not stupid to explain these things to stupid ignorant people.
Keep up with YOUR insults and Jakobs. I love to see foolish people look bad.

@Hathor28: I'm sorry, but you're contributing nothing to this conversation. This thread is for mature debate about shared dreaming. If you're just going to insult anybody who disagrees with you without even listening to what they have to say, then please get out. You're not debating; you're just being immature and ruining the debate for everyone.

Originally Posted by Jakob

Nonsense. Personal testimony is just that -- a story someone is telling. A controlled study is something completely different.

People claim they have visions of Christ. People claim they talk to God. People claim God answers back. People claim lots of things.

Do you accept all these claims as "science"?


You condemn people for believing in God because of lack of scientific evidence, yet for shared dreaming the evidence is irrelevant. We should just all accept it as fact, simply because people on an internet forum say they experience it.

Hypocrisy at it's finest.

You call them "claims". I call them experiences. The experience is valid because it has been experienced. However, the interpretation of that experience is where people get tripped up. For instance, when someone thinks only mainstream science should be accepted as fact without leaving room for any independent thought.
Isaac Newton invented calculus, by himself. His own personal experience led him to construct a mathematical portrait of gravity and physics. The point is truth comes from experience, not accepting a "fact" because it was found using the scientific method. On the other hand, there are many people smarter than us and in that, humility is a big part of accepting truth.
I accept repeated observation of specific experiential phenomena as science.
Interestingly enough, strict evidence based science led us to believe we had explained everything in nature by the year 1900. Many people claimed we were done mapping out the universe. If all you want to accept is what is being fed through your 5 physical senses, you are missing out. There is a lot of of me than you cannot see.
Also, saying "nonsense" as if you are dismissing everything I say out of hand is just as "hypocritical", geez.
Another also: I believe in god and im not sure when I condemned anyone for that belief. I certainly dont believe in any religious god but im not sure you would understand that point of view either.

Overall, I accept everything as truth and lie simultaneously. I am not perceptive enough to know any "objective reality". The truest truth I know of is the ever pervading love that fills the universe and I try to go from there. Accepting others experience rather than rejecting it off hand because it wasnt yours is very important. Being afraid of other's opinions will lead you deeper into your own fear.

You are saying we should take our limitless experience of the unconscious and subject that to "controlled" scientific study. Yeah, good luck with that.

With what I've read and experienced, I'm perfectly convinced it's possible. At heart I do believe dreams and lucid dreams both take place in the astral realm, and the look and feel of normal day-to-day life is just an illusion hence dream control is possible with practice. With that I am inclined to think that one can possibly walk right into another's dream depending on how conscious they are, and if they're both conscious then it's likely a shared dream will be remembered. I've heard multiple scenarios in the past about the event happening, and each time they both have a good amount of dream recall under their belt, they have described the same things. This isn't much of a powerful example but once me and my then-girlfriend woke up one morning and I told her that I had a dream about being surrounded by a SWAT team, I had a machine gun in my arms to imply that I was killing people with it, the over-all dream felt like I was anyway. In the dream, there was a metal transparent staircase leading to a higher floor but it didn't seem that important, it was just there. When I told her about this dream she asked me if I was being arrested, because she came down a staircase at the end of her dream and saw me getting surrounded by a SWAT team. If this dream was the same, then neither of us can remember what happened before or after.

I once Had what I believed to be a dream share,

The atmosphere of the dream was quite different than any other I have experienced at the time I thought it was a premonition of sorts. I was in this apartment parking lot. it seemed it was in south florida, the buildings were three stories high and off white. I'm standing in the parking lot with another person, I believe it is my boyfriend but I never look directly at him in the dream. A black lady in a cop uniform holding a bag of groceries comes up to us we start having a conversation with her.
Suddenly we hear someone screaming and theres a guy on the top story dragging this woman out of a room by her hair, he's holding a gun.
He now is holding her by the hair over the railing of the balcony, then he drops her and shes dead. Then he is downstairs suddenly in the parking lot with us and pointing the gun at us. the cop is doing the same at him, then he starts shooting he shoots the cop first then she shoots him as he shoots me. I'm unsure if my boyfriend was shot in the dream. I fade out, then I'm looking in a mirror at the holes in my belly there are 9 shots exactly. Then I wake up and I have this pain in my stomach.
This was about 3 months ago. I told my boyfriend about this and he said He had the same dream ( at this time we were separated by about 4 hours) but the cop was male, the person with the gun was female and had thrown a baby over the railing instead.
Thought it was very profound.

Originally Posted by Ezrael

I once Had what I believed to be a dream share,

The atmosphere of the dream was quite different than any other I have experienced at the time I thought it was a premonition of sorts. I was in this apartment parking lot. it seemed it was in south florida, the buildings were three stories high and off white. I'm standing in the parking lot with another person, I believe it is my boyfriend but I never look directly at him in the dream. A black lady in a cop uniform holding a bag of groceries comes up to us we start having a conversation with her.
Suddenly we hear someone screaming and theres a guy on the top story dragging this woman out of a room by her hair, he's holding a gun.
He now is holding her by the hair over the railing of the balcony, then he drops her and shes dead. Then he is downstairs suddenly in the parking lot with us and pointing the gun at us. the cop is doing the same at him, then he starts shooting he shoots the cop first then she shoots him as he shoots me. I'm unsure if my boyfriend was shot in the dream. I fade out, then I'm looking in a mirror at the holes in my belly there are 9 shots exactly. Then I wake up and I have this pain in my stomach.
This was about 3 months ago. I told my boyfriend about this and he said He had the same dream ( at this time we were separated by about 4 hours) but the cop was male, the person with the gun was female and had thrown a baby over the railing instead.
Thought it was very profound.

Very cool. Its a good example of how two people can have differing metaphorical imagery and yet retain similar meaning. props yo.

Originally Posted by Chimpertainment

You call them "claims". I call them experiences. The experience is valid because it has been experienced. However, the interpretation of that experience is where people get tripped up. For instance, when someone thinks only mainstream science should be accepted as fact without leaving room for any independent thought.
Isaac Newton invented calculus, by himself. His own personal experience led him to construct a mathematical portrait of gravity and physics. The point is truth comes from experience, not accepting a "fact" because it was found using the scientific method. On the other hand, there are many people smarter than us and in that, humility is a big part of accepting truth.
I accept repeated observation of specific experiential phenomena as science.

But here we have nothing to hold on to except "talk". Lucid dreaming was proven in a controlled study by LaBerge using specific eye-movements during REM sleep. The same could easily be done for shared dreaming, but for some reason, after all these years, it hasn't been done.

Interestingly enough, strict evidence based science led us to believe we had explained everything in nature by the year 1900. Many people claimed we were done mapping out the universe. If all you want to accept is what is being fed through your 5 physical senses, you are missing out. There is a lot of of me than you cannot see.
Also, saying "nonsense" as if you are dismissing everything I say out of hand is just as "hypocritical", geez.
Another also: I believe in god and im not sure when I condemned anyone for that belief. I certainly dont believe in any religious god but im not sure you would understand that point of view either.

So you believe in the existence of God, but at the same time that all religions are false. I can understand that.

Overall, I accept everything as truth and lie simultaneously.

Hmm. I'm not sure how that would work. Believing in Hinduism and Christianity at the same time would be very irrational, seeing how one religion completely contradicts the other. Therefore I don't see how someone can accept everything as truth. It is illogical.

I am not perceptive enough to know any "objective reality". The truest truth I know of is the ever pervading love that fills the universe and I try to go from there. Accepting others experience rather than rejecting it off hand because it wasnt yours is very important. Being afraid of other's opinions will lead you deeper into your own fear.

You are saying we should take our limitless experience of the unconscious and subject that to "controlled" scientific study. Yeah, good luck with that.

I am talking about shared dreaming in a controlled study. A simple password along with eye-movements is all it takes. What is the problem with that? LaBerge has done it with simple lucid dreaming, now why not take it one step further when two individuals supposedly "meet" in a lucid dream?

The only issue here is this: You all want to make shared dreaming "unsuitable" for a study, and make up tons of excuses why it wouldn't work in a study. The only reason is to justify the fact that all these years of research hasn't shown a shred of evidence for shared dreaming.

Yet the same people who believe in shared dreaming despite the lack of scientific evidence are most of the time the same people who mock Muslims, Christians, Hindus, etc., for believing in God and the after-life. It truly is hypocrisy.

Yet the same people who believe in shared dreaming despite the lack of scientific evidence are most of the time the same people who mock Muslims, Christians, Hindus, etc., for believing in God and the after-life. It truly is hypocrisy.

Ok i said i wouldn't post anymore here due to stupid people like you, but excuse me?! YOU don't know me and my beliefs! STOP assuming crap! And your debates are now getting PERSONAL! LIKE I SAID STOP GOING OFF TOPIC!....I'm done with this stupidity you are giving out, like dealing with a 5 year old!

I have a problem believing what you say. How old were you, if I may ask?

I was around 12 years old. Why is this important?

Did your dad simply say "I dreamt the same thing!" or did he actually complete your sentences?

He completed my sentences. He would also tell me about parts of the dream I accidentally left out, and also describe all the details I've seen. It all matched.

What exactly do you mean? What was the "anything" and "everything" ?

Basically we did gross stuff to his family... NC-17 type of stuff. BUT... it was a dream, so calm down.

I believe dream share can be possible, but as my previous post presented how our dreams were similar but different. The way someone's minds perceives something is completely different than how another mind is perceiving.
I think the basic meaning of many dreams can be the same, as there is always a subconscious reference to what is being projected from someone. Then depending on the persons personal imagination and the things they think about, what they surround themselves with is what tends to appear in their dreams. So really you could be having the same distinct message as many other people out there, but your specific perception really decides how the dream appears to you. I can see having alike dreams if its with some one who thinks very similarly to your own thoughts and you are around them often, or even if you happen to be dealing with a situation thats affecting your minds the same.