Who here can actually SEE what they visualize

**acillis** · 09-18-2012 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by ThisWitheredMan

It has been almost one year since I began meditating regularly, and about two years since I started taking acid/mushrooms and taking an interest in visualization and mental metaprogramming and that sort of thing, paying attention to my thought processes and such, and I've noticed a really interesting, dramatic transition in how my memory works. For most of my life my memories and thoughts were pretty much restricted to vague conceptualizations. For example, I could look at my desk, then close my eyes and have a general idea of what things were in what positions, and even have a sort of CONCEPTUAL understanding of what their appearance was, but I could never drum up any sort of image visualization.

Now I can visualize just about anything. I can re-experience tastes, sounds, sights, even feelings, textures, etc. To be clear, this is not 100% 'real' like it is when I'm lucid dreaming. These things all exist in my "mind's eye", as it were, but they exist there VERY VIVIDLY. If I picture an orange, imagine peeling it and eating it, I can ALMOST, but not quite, feel the tingle in my nose from the smell, and my mouth waters like crazy. Damn, now I really want an orange... The best way I can think to describe it is that when I imagine or visualize things, I tune into an imaginary duplicate of myself, who senses everything as utterly vivid, but the tuning is weak. It's like slipping just 1% into a lucid dream, if that makes sense. I can picture, say, a green field, and experience it QUITE vividly through a sort of alternate, imaginary sensorium, but the experiences in that sensorium never bleed into this one. I never ACTUALLY taste or smell the orange, though it feels ALMOST like I do.

Something I discovered that blew my mind at the time and is still impressive to me is this visualization trick. I'm curious if it works this vividly for others, you folks should try it and let me know? The idea is, imagine yourself standing in front of a door, and tell yourself in simple terms what is going to be on the other side of that door, then imagine opening the door. For example, if I say, "There's going to be a big dramatic church behind this door," when I 'open' it, my mind generates a complete building with quite a lot of detail AUTOMATICALLY, pews, pillars, stained glass windows, etc., much like in dreaming. I never noticed this prior, and I'm sure everyone can do it, but something about it impresses the hell out of me.

Within the past couple days I've begun making a concerted effort to Astral Project based on how easy it was to get into Lucid Dreaming regularly once I gave it a serious effort. Today when I did it I experienced something new. I've always gotten interesting and vivid hypnagogic imagery when I manage to stay conscious during the initial falling-asleep process, but it was always sort of vague flashes, and generally consisted of shapes and patterns. Today, however, when I was trying to project, it was fairly different. In the blackness of my vision I'd see light forms appear, and then those forms would abruptly become windows through which I could *see* with utter clarity and vividness scenes. I spun around a mesa in a vast desert, saw a strange dining room/coffee shop type thing, and a variety of other really vivid, LIVE and moving images, as though peering directly into a dream. I wasn't able to shift into these or anything, but it was really interesting. Like you say, acillis, if I would attempt to move or focus my eyes or do just about anything at all, it would immediately collapse back to darkness. However, you may be relieved to know that I was QUITE stoned while doing that this morning and that I smoke quite a bit of weed, so I don't think it really has any actual limiting effect on these sorts of things.

hope your right

**rosebanks123** · 09-29-2012 03:32 PM

I think only the gifted people has the ability to see what they visualize. These include those who have predictions related to religious aspects.

**Intfere** · 10-02-2012 05:47 PM

If the thread is about seeing as hallucinating, that I can only do it as a side-effect of meditation, and that ability vanishes when I'm not meditating or am otherwise focusing only on "real life". That's good: anybody who can do it without effort, uncontrollably, will probably get into trouble.

My opinion on this is that effortless hallucinating is often a curse rather than a gift, because it signifies a mental imbalance. And mentally imbalanced people could misinterprete their visions, believe in their reality, etc. Which doesn't help at all. Like, what would happen if you see a devil in your room and believe he's real?

**Daredevilpwn** · 10-02-2012 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by Intfere

If the thread is about seeing as hallucinating, that I can only do it as a side-effect of meditation, and that ability vanishes when I'm not meditating or am otherwise focusing only on "real life". That's good: anybody who can do it without effort, uncontrollably, will probably get into trouble.

My opinion on this is that effortless hallucinating is often a curse rather than a gift, because it signifies a mental imbalance. And mentally imbalanced people could misinterprete their visions, believe in their reality, etc. Which doesn't help at all. Like, what would happen if you see a devil in your room and believe he's real?

You got it all wrong. I am not talking about people that have mental disorders. I am talking about those that can see a very vivid mental image when they try to visualize something, like a horse for example. I can only imagine the concept of what a horse would look like. But others when they visualize a horse they get a very clear image of the horse.

**Intfere** · 10-02-2012 08:37 PM

How can you measure against somebody else your ability to visualize mentally? Say, you can see particular details, you can hear the sound, and tactile sensation like wind. Say, somebody else has it the same way, but how do you compare the intensity of these sensations? I don't know of such a way.

I always thought that all people visualize the same way, until my friend told me that in the past he couldn't visualize at all. It varies for sure, but there's no way that I know of to compare.

That said, I still think that a hallucination is the best visualization. Both happen in your mind and are of the same nature.

**Daredevilpwn** · 10-02-2012 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by Intfere

How can you measure against somebody else your ability to visualize mentally? Say, you can see particular details, you can hear the sound, and tactile sensation like wind. Say, somebody else has it the same way, but how do you compare the intensity of these sensations? I don't know of such a way.

I always thought that all people visualize the same way, until my friend told me that in the past he couldn't visualize at all. It varies for sure, but there's no way that I know of to compare.

That said, I still think that a hallucination is the best visualization. Both happen in your mind and are of the same nature.

The best thing you can do is just ask "On a scale of 1-10 how vivid are your visuals 1 being no image at all to 10 being full blown HD" But that is just visuals alone so you can use the same 1-10 scale for all other senses as well. Other than that I have no idea. Unless humanity makes special tech that lets us see what people are thinking on a monitor.

**dutchraptor** · 10-02-2012 09:02 PM

I use two methods of visualization, the first one being the normal one where you try imagine the concept of it, it's as if you see the image behind your eyes, but as if your eyes are not associated in any way. As you go into sleep your normal eyesight is cut off and this visualization becomes amplified as if it replaces your eyes, at this point it doesn't feel like visualization anymore and you don't really have to try. Compared to a lucid dream (if the ld was 10) I'd put this visualization at 3 and when day dreaming at 5-6.
The other method I use of visualization is by trying to see things when I close my eyes by morphing the image. It's really difficult and I'm not sure how to explain it, I kind of make my brain believe I'm actually seeing something. The weird part is that it isn't half as clear as a normal visualization yet in a way alot more. In terms of colour and detail you domn't actually see that much but when you explain to someone what you saw you can go on about it 2x longer.

I don't know if theirs much of a difference between the two but in walking life they certainly seem quite different.

**rrrrocketrick** · 02-06-2013 04:38 AM

Originally Posted by Daredevilpwn

Interesting, thanks for the info. What is your level of visualization? As for me I can only think of the concept

But you can still lucid dream?

**Runeword** · 02-06-2013 04:57 AM

to the OP; download Robert Bruce's ebook Astral Dynamics and go to Part 2 of the book. Chapter 8 "Imagination vs Visualization". you can get the download here Robert Bruce's AstralBob.com

i have a bit to say about this myself mostly along the lines of HI but i don't have time to write it out right now but i think that for a lot of people that are trying to have their first experiences this is a HUGE problem area and a lot of misconceptions about it. Robert Bruce has given the best description though so check it out.

**Daredevilpwn** · 02-07-2013 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by Runeword

to the OP; download Robert Bruce's ebook Astral Dynamics and go to Part 2 of the book. Chapter 8 "Imagination vs Visualization". you can get the download here Robert Bruce's AstralBob.com

i have a bit to say about this myself mostly along the lines of HI but i don't have time to write it out right now but i think that for a lot of people that are trying to have their first experiences this is a HUGE problem area and a lot of misconceptions about it. Robert Bruce has given the best description though so check it out.

Thanks. Over the past few months since this post I've begun to understand. When you imagine something you are 'seeing' it with your minds eye but not on a physical level. When one closes their eyes they see something called closed eye hallucinations. Some people can control them really really well whereas someone like me cannot but it can be trained.

But you can still lucid dream?

Of course.

**JayZen** · 05-06-2013 06:44 AM

yeah i can visualize sumthin and its sorta faded looking, or like a fog around it , sort of like a ghost image of it, but sumtimes in the mornings i can visualize sumthing so clear its exactly real, like im watching a movie. and when i can visualize like that i can imagine a scene in my mind with 180 degree vision , its like my eyes were open, its that real.

**CbmGraphics** · 05-09-2013 02:39 AM

This is the main reason I joined DV. Iv looked at many threads about Controlled Hallucination and AP (Astral Projection) I have been able to have a hallucination. I followed this guide to do that. I would infer if you get good enough you can Que it in seconds and really get good at controling it. How to self Induce Hallucinations - YouTube

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