Thread: Who here can actually SEE what they visualize

During the past year my visualization skill has hit new level. Largest breakthrough was when I realiced connection between visual memories and made up visualizations. I've always been able to remember visual cues of past, mainly faces of friends and places I've been most connected. Then (thanks to psychedelics and morely half a year of meditation / dream yoga practice) I started get a clue what the minds eye really ment. Basicly I started to percive the moments when my mind held a picture. Before this I've given it a notice only when I've tried to picture a face of a friend who I've lost a connection with. Ironicly I hadn't put an effort to visualization up until the memories had allready began to vanish.

Now it has started to change quite dramatically. First I started to pay heed to those moments when I imagined something. Some of the pictures have always been there. Like when I read a book or invent a story, place or characters (for text or rpg session or elsevice). There have always been vague pictures. But they've been so short and at the edge mind that I've been left mostly with a experience of having only conceptual ideas, not images.

Now after noticing that there has been images, I've been able to prolong those images and give more intent to images than conceptual matrices. Then I realized that I've been trying to rewind myself to dreams of previous nights for many years now with varying results. Meaning that I've often succeeded of those recallings even visualy. Dream recallings had existed in different moods and states of mind than reading a book or trying to remember some old memories. So it was after practice and notion that I started to connect these things and give larger notion and difference to this part of memory and imagining that was visual, hence the minds eye. After noticing the ammount of visualization I've allready had done, it was more easy use it and stop and prolong the moments I was using the 'eye'. There has been short glimbses of visualization all a long, but the conseptual and verbal, rather than visual thought has overriden the images so that I've had no lasting memory and no belief of my visual capacities. I've discussed with couple of my friends who had always experiences books with wide and vivid mental pictures. I hadn't done that rather thought that I didn't posses visual kind of mind. Now I slowly started to change the self-image from no-visaul-type towards hadn't-give-a-notice-to-visual-type.

Another thing that has changed was skill to remember more distant past. I've had a belief that couple very ruff and even traumatic episodes of my life had made barriers that kept me of crossing them. I've had allready accepted fact of living with only past five years and having only vague memories past that. When that barrier began to broke (I'like to say that learned pastwalking) I spent couple of months drunken of meditation that showed me images and memories ranging backwards and even reaching my childhood, as well as larger spectrum of my own being changing while growing. Though I still see that places, people and, to pick one important clue: smells are doorways of memories, they can be feched with practice and by overcoming psychological barries that block the memory. After starting to cultivate skill of recalling it let me slowly but rewardingly backwards to person and history I had given up hope to ever meeting. Most psychedelic part has been with places that hold strong memories of past happenings. In those places I can see glimbses of myself as well as situation and company I'm with like interpolarated with present. Not automatically but with little effort. Sometimes I can see more than two moments simultoniusly and (in my crazy mind) even time crossing interconversation.

After noticing new things about visualization, memory and way senses work with enviroment and state of mind I've come to conlcusion that my field of experience is best described as layered one. Like when I'm wrapped up to myself I notice only first layers of reality (still having illusion of sensing). When aware and present I see past first layers of memories that think that if I've been in place before I know it even though it's made up mostly of my prejustices and mind state. After spending time in one place and luckily grasping more meditative state I get to see and sense deeper into the space I'm in. Reason why I use term layered is that space can hold matrices of categories I can tune in that really resemble some workings of computer graphic editing program strenched into worlds of multiple senses and field of time and memory. It's like I can tune into colorscape of some color and it pops up into surface of my sensing. Or even form. I can for example start to search for cigarette filters and all-the sudden I pick tincans, batteries, coffee thermoses, rolling pins and other resemblances of the given form at the surface of my experince.

These kind of tunings were shamanistic practices I read about couple of years ago. When I tried them then I didn't get much of the results. Then after last year launched by couple of trips and continuing with almost daily utilitarian meditative practices, they proved to be quite easy and blocks were suprising places and quite easy to overcome. Mostly I have a feeling that I mostly started to pay attention to things I've been doing all the time and giving more intention to them.

Easy and rewarding way to try this is color blue. Atleast if you live in downtown or other place where buildings are tall. I realised I've been cutting or layering out the sky in urban landscape. By tuning into blue colourscape it feels like my visual fields is suddenly strenched into three times as pick visual field with attention of the beauty of clouds added to previously poorer visual experince.

I read that DMT as well (maybe) being part of REM-sleep state is also part of process where mind builds sensual experience of surroundings. By my experience this makes sense

I can see realistic images..like watching a movie in hd...but i dont control it...it goes from one to another

I think only the gifted people has the ability to see what they visualize. These include those who have predictions related to religious aspects.

If the thread is about seeing as hallucinating, that I can only do it as a side-effect of meditation, and that ability vanishes when I'm not meditating or am otherwise focusing only on "real life". That's good: anybody who can do it without effort, uncontrollably, will probably get into trouble.

My opinion on this is that effortless hallucinating is often a curse rather than a gift, because it signifies a mental imbalance. And mentally imbalanced people could misinterprete their visions, believe in their reality, etc. Which doesn't help at all. Like, what would happen if you see a devil in your room and believe he's real?

Originally Posted by Intfere

If the thread is about seeing as hallucinating, that I can only do it as a side-effect of meditation, and that ability vanishes when I'm not meditating or am otherwise focusing only on "real life". That's good: anybody who can do it without effort, uncontrollably, will probably get into trouble.

My opinion on this is that effortless hallucinating is often a curse rather than a gift, because it signifies a mental imbalance. And mentally imbalanced people could misinterprete their visions, believe in their reality, etc. Which doesn't help at all. Like, what would happen if you see a devil in your room and believe he's real?

You got it all wrong. I am not talking about people that have mental disorders. I am talking about those that can see a very vivid mental image when they try to visualize something, like a horse for example. I can only imagine the concept of what a horse would look like. But others when they visualize a horse they get a very clear image of the horse.

How can you measure against somebody else your ability to visualize mentally? Say, you can see particular details, you can hear the sound, and tactile sensation like wind. Say, somebody else has it the same way, but how do you compare the intensity of these sensations? I don't know of such a way.

I always thought that all people visualize the same way, until my friend told me that in the past he couldn't visualize at all. It varies for sure, but there's no way that I know of to compare.

That said, I still think that a hallucination is the best visualization. Both happen in your mind and are of the same nature.

Originally Posted by Intfere

How can you measure against somebody else your ability to visualize mentally? Say, you can see particular details, you can hear the sound, and tactile sensation like wind. Say, somebody else has it the same way, but how do you compare the intensity of these sensations? I don't know of such a way.

I always thought that all people visualize the same way, until my friend told me that in the past he couldn't visualize at all. It varies for sure, but there's no way that I know of to compare.

That said, I still think that a hallucination is the best visualization. Both happen in your mind and are of the same nature.

The best thing you can do is just ask "On a scale of 1-10 how vivid are your visuals 1 being no image at all to 10 being full blown HD" But that is just visuals alone so you can use the same 1-10 scale for all other senses as well. Other than that I have no idea. Unless humanity makes special tech that lets us see what people are thinking on a monitor.

I use two methods of visualization, the first one being the normal one where you try imagine the concept of it, it's as if you see the image behind your eyes, but as if your eyes are not associated in any way. As you go into sleep your normal eyesight is cut off and this visualization becomes amplified as if it replaces your eyes, at this point it doesn't feel like visualization anymore and you don't really have to try. Compared to a lucid dream (if the ld was 10) I'd put this visualization at 3 and when day dreaming at 5-6.
The other method I use of visualization is by trying to see things when I close my eyes by morphing the image. It's really difficult and I'm not sure how to explain it, I kind of make my brain believe I'm actually seeing something. The weird part is that it isn't half as clear as a normal visualization yet in a way alot more. In terms of colour and detail you domn't actually see that much but when you explain to someone what you saw you can go on about it 2x longer.

I don't know if theirs much of a difference between the two but in walking life they certainly seem quite different.

to the OP; download Robert Bruce's ebook Astral Dynamics and go to Part 2 of the book. Chapter 8 "Imagination vs Visualization". you can get the download here Robert Bruce's AstralBob.com

i have a bit to say about this myself mostly along the lines of HI but i don't have time to write it out right now but i think that for a lot of people that are trying to have their first experiences this is a HUGE problem area and a lot of misconceptions about it. Robert Bruce has given the best description though so check it out.

Originally Posted by Runeword

to the OP; download Robert Bruce's ebook Astral Dynamics and go to Part 2 of the book. Chapter 8 "Imagination vs Visualization". you can get the download here Robert Bruce's AstralBob.com

i have a bit to say about this myself mostly along the lines of HI but i don't have time to write it out right now but i think that for a lot of people that are trying to have their first experiences this is a HUGE problem area and a lot of misconceptions about it. Robert Bruce has given the best description though so check it out.

Thanks. Over the past few months since this post I've begun to understand. When you imagine something you are 'seeing' it with your minds eye but not on a physical level. When one closes their eyes they see something called closed eye hallucinations. Some people can control them really really well whereas someone like me cannot but it can be trained.

But you can still lucid dream?

Of course.

yeah i can visualize sumthin and its sorta faded looking, or like a fog around it , sort of like a ghost image of it, but sumtimes in the mornings i can visualize sumthing so clear its exactly real, like im watching a movie. and when i can visualize like that i can imagine a scene in my mind with 180 degree vision , its like my eyes were open, its that real.

This is the main reason I joined DV. Iv looked at many threads about Controlled Hallucination and AP (Astral Projection) I have been able to have a hallucination. I followed this guide to do that. I would infer if you get good enough you can Que it in seconds and really get good at controling it. How to self Induce Hallucinations - YouTube