Thread: Can someone clear up information about shared dreaming?

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

And before you say i'm not open minded, educate yourself on what open minded is:

o⋅pen-mind⋅ed  /ˈoʊpənˈmaɪndɪd/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [oh-puhn-mahyn-did] –adjective
1. having or showing a mind receptive to new ideas or arguments.
2. unprejudiced; unbigoted; impartial.

The second definition would indicate you are not open minded if you have already firmly decided your opinion on a topic because that would eliminate the impartial part. For example, if you are firmly convinced that shared dreaming is impossible, you have already decided and are close minded on that topic. Please note that I said if. On some topics I am open minded, on others I am not open minded because I have been firmly convinced of what I believe. I would have to admit I'm not very open minded to the idea shared dreaming is impossible because I have experienced it... but of course that doesn't produce any proof I can share with anyone else. I wish it did.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

So sigh as much as you like, but one persons claims are not proof.
If Nomad really can have shared dreams, and it is as easy as he claims...
Then i'm sure he would be happy to demonstrate this claim in a way which consitiutes as proof.

Take a closer look at the forums you are posting on. There are many people claiming they have shared dreams... not just WakingNomad. And I have PM'ed with even more who wish to remain anonymous because they don't want to be ridiculed by people such as yourself and others who don't believe and don't want anyone else to believe.

My Name is Raven Knight and I Believe in Shared Lucid Dreaming!

Originally Posted by Raven Knight

Take a closer look at the forums you are posting on. There are many people claiming they have shared dreams... not just WakingNomad. And I have PM'ed with even more who wish to remain anonymous because they don't want to be ridiculed by people such as yourself and others who don't believe and don't want anyone else to believe.

My Name is Raven Knight and I Believe in Shared Lucid Dreaming!

You make me smile.

Some things in life are absolutely real but not proveable. Love for instance. There is no evidence anywhere that love exist but you can experience it. Everyone seems to agree that they have experienced it but everyone experiences it differently. I have experienced shared dreaming many times. I believe & do it regulary.

The need to prove is based on the desire for your experiences to be accepted by others. As Bob Marley said, You can please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all the people all the time.

Belief is not based on fact it is based on repetitive thought, yet belief does not outlive its usefulness. We all believe what we find to be useful or to apply in our lives. If we do not find usefulful or cannot apply simply does not exist. The divine is not proveable or disproveable but many people enjoy it and use it because they have thought on it long enough and found usefulness in the concept.

THe critical ingredient in my experiences have been desire and the magnitude of those desires. If I want something enough then as I go to sleep I begin to create a connection through my senses. Eventually the desire will clear a channel by which I connect to my subjects.

THis has also been a two way street in my experience. Many of the people I wanted to connect with have called me. In which I answer the call, (In my dreams this occurs by a telephone call) & show up in their dreams.

IN the beggining I was curious if they had the same dream. I asked them very naturally if they had any wierd dreams lately, or why they had been so upset about (fill in the blank). In which they said how did you know I hadn't told anyone yet or something to that effect. Other times I may have reached a moment which I participated in while in my dream body but not in physical life. THen later on they may have called me to tell me that such and such event transpired.

Personally I don't need anyone to believe me. The people with who I interact feel the effects. ...or at least we find it useful.

May we awaken within our lifetimes to our luminous nature as pure consciousness. Om Mani Padme Hung

THis has also been a two way street in my experience. Many of the people I wanted to connect with have called me. In which I answer the call, (In my dreams this occurs by a telephone call) & show up in their dreams.

In my dream this morning, I called someone called "Harsh" via cellphone but they just mumbled at me and hung up.
Hope I didn't wake anyone.

Sorry about this whole debate here. I didn't expect such a break out of opinions... although, I should have really.

Originally Posted by Hijo de la Luna

Some things in life are absolutely real but not proveable. Love for instance. There is no evidence anywhere that love exist but you can experience it. Everyone seems to agree that they have experienced it but everyone experiences it differently. I have experienced shared dreaming many times. I believe & do it regulary.

Hate to burst the bubble, but the mechanisms behind love, the brain chemistry etc. have been generally well mapped and explained.
The subjective experience may not be easy to pin down, but then the same thing could be said for dreams... and nobody claims dreams are unproveable.

With the same logic, you could say the colour green is absolutely real but not proveable... because it is impossible for any of us to ever share another persons perceptions of the colour green. However, as with love, the cause for the personal experience is the same, yet the direct personal experience MAY differ.

No bubbles bursted. I feel you got the jist of my message

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

Hate to burst the bubble, but the mechanisms behind love, the brain chemistry etc. have been generally well mapped and explained.
The subjective experience may not be easy to pin down, but then the same thing could be said for dreams... and nobody claims dreams are unproveable.

With the same logic, you could say the colour green is absolutely real but not proveable... because it is impossible for any of us to ever share another persons perceptions of the colour green. However, as with love, the cause for the personal experience is the same, yet the direct personal experience MAY differ.

Would people with miss matched brain chemicals undergo the same chemical changes that 'love' induces? Since every sleeper undergoes the same process for achieving REM sleep (speaking only about brain waves and patterns) could it not be possible to be on the same brain wave? Would that be sufficient evidence to make sharing dreams possible?

I would know all about messed up brain chemicals... and love isn't always the same.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

If you were to apply this principle to waking life, all sorts of sillyness would ensue.
Imagine the police trying to hunt someone down, they have two descriptions:

A blonde man, 5'9, nose ring, short well groomed hair, tattoo of a dove on left arm, slight limp, australian accent.

or

A man with kind of lightish hair depending on the lighting, maybe some kind of jewlery, his hair is neither long nor short, he may have a tatoo of a dove - but it could be an image on his tshirt, or a book he is carrying, or maybe it's the brand of his shoes, or maybe nothing at all. You may notice he walks strangely, but it dosn't really matter, it could have just been uneven ground he was walking on. His accent isn't french.

Ha ha brilliant. This sums it up really.

Originally Posted by Hijo de la Luna

No bubbles bursted

bursted?

You know I really hope you guys are still in school because I just despair at the stupidity I see in this section of the forum, I truly do. I mean, what are they teaching instead of grammar/common sense/rational thinking/science etc?

Telepathy clearly doesn't exist between humans who are awake right? None of you is silly enough to claim this (I hope) but the fact is, if it did exist then we wouldn't need cellphones? Clearly we're all using cellphones so anyone claiming to be able to perform telepathy would just look like an idiot. But why would you go and decide that telepathy is suddenly possible when we're asleep? I mean, ffs!

The fact is, humans don't share dreams. Dreaming is a private conscious experience caused by neural activity just like waking perception is a private experience. I know you'd all love to have some amazing ability that puts you in the limelight and makes you feel important talking all about it, but the fact is, none of you does. You're all just a bunch of hairless monkeys sharing the planet with 6 billion other monkeys each of whom wish they were the Golden Monkey.

You're not the Golden Monkey with special supernatural abilities. You're just another boring monkey. Get over it already

Originally Posted by Raven Knight

Take a closer look at the forums you are posting on. There are many people claiming they have shared dreams... not just WakingNomad. And I have PM'ed with even more who wish to remain anonymous because they don't want to be ridiculed by people such as yourself and others who don't believe and don't want anyone else to believe.

My Name is Raven Knight and I Believe in Shared Lucid Dreaming!

Theres also forums where people discuss how they've been held down and molested by demons in their bed.

Doesn't mean they're not just experiencing sleep paralysis.

Originally Posted by DreamQueen

Telepathy clearly doesn't exist between humans who are awake right? None of you is silly enough to claim this (I hope) but the fact is, if it did exist then we wouldn't need cellphones? Clearly we're all using cellphones so anyone claiming to be able to perform telepathy would just look like an idiot. But why would you go and decide that telepathy is suddenly possible when we're asleep? I mean, ffs!

+1. I despair at the bogus pseudo science we witness on this forum. "If we all have brain waves then surely those brain waves can mix and so result in shared dreams".
The one "if" in this "theory" in fact equals a million ifs, many of which are already answered. Pull at one aspect and the whole thing falls like a deck of cards.

Theres a single salient fact, and that is the whole "Astral realm shared dreaming" thing depends on a willful ignorance of the state of the art understanding of neurology, physiology, biology and good old common sense.

I think you're right Dreamqueen, theres a fair number of school children, tweeners and angsty teens on DV. We shouldn't be so hard on them.
I mean, It was only a few years ago they believed in santa.

Read a book:
"The Field" by Lynne McTaggart. It explains scientific tests about distant healing and telepathy for example. I highly recommend it.

Search for quantum physics to gain insight how it's possible.

...What's all that offensive language about? In this sort of a discussion we actually gain knowledge and broaden our mind how our fellows see the world. Maybe some of it actually has some sense to it?
...Every person knows something you don't, learn from them.

Off-topic: do you feel like sharing all the good stuff you know that would make lives much easier with people who are mean to you?

Be(a)st wishes

Originally Posted by insight

Read a book:
"The Field" by Lynne McTaggart. It explains scientific tests about distant healing and telepathy for example. I highly recommend it.

Search for quantum physics to gain insight how it's possible.

...What's all that offensive language about? In this sort of a discussion we actually gain knowledge and broaden our mind how our fellows see the world. Maybe some of it actually has some sense to it?
...Every person knows something you don't, learn from them.

Off-topic: do you feel like sharing all the good stuff you know that would make lives much easier with people who are mean to you?

Be(a)st wishes

From wikipedia:

"McTaggart's program is not accepted by mainstream medicine and not supported by scientific evidence, although references to mainstream scientific concepts are made. Despite references to quantum mechanics, McTaggart is not a physicist and her ideas are not supported by mainstream physicists."

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

Despite references to quantum mechanics, McTaggart is not a physicist and her ideas are not supported by mainstream physicists."

Quantum Physics. The "believers" went to town off the back of this one.
Something fundamentally cool and amazing - which they understand only enough to cobble together some BS pseudo-science around.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

From wikipedia:

"McTaggart's program is not accepted by mainstream medicine and not supported by scientific evidence, although references to mainstream scientific concepts are made. Despite references to quantum mechanics, McTaggart is not a physicist and her ideas are not supported by mainstream physicists."

Wow, wikipedia huh? Wait, that the free online encyclopedia where anyone can put anything and claim it as true. I have seen so many messed up pages on it that I have lost count. Most colleges now are not allowing it as a useful reference, why are you?

Scientists are currently working on explaining telepathy. I think most of you will find the following video quite interesting:
http://channel.nationalgeographic.co...ideos/05087_00

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

If you were to apply this principle to waking life, all sorts of sillyness would ensue.
Imagine the police trying to hunt someone down, they have two descriptions:

A blonde man, 5'9, nose ring, short well groomed hair, tattoo of a dove on left arm, slight limp, australian accent.

or

A man with kind of lightish hair depending on the lighting, maybe some kind of jewlery, his hair is neither long nor short, he may have a tatoo of a dove - but it could be an image on his tshirt, or a book he is carrying, or maybe it's the brand of his shoes, or maybe nothing at all. You may notice he walks strangely, but it dosn't really matter, it could have just been uneven ground he was walking on. His accent isn't french.

Which description would leave you with thousands of possible maches, and which would give you maybe a handful?

If you throw detail and specificness out of the window, and consider vague whimsical similarities to be a good reason to call "match", then well don't be suprised if 99% of your dreams seem like you're sharing them.
Just don't expect anyone else to agree with you.

Originally Posted by DreamQueen

Ha ha brilliant. This sums it up really.

Uh... actually that happens all of the time. A crime will be committed with numerous eye witnesses and everyone there will give a different account of the event. The suspects drove a blue pick-up. No, they drove a black SUV. No, they drove a white Bronco. And the differences go on. This can make the police work very difficult!

Originally Posted by DreamQueen

The fact is, humans don't share dreams. Dreaming is a private conscious experience caused by neural activity just like waking perception is a private experience. I know you'd all love to have some amazing ability that puts you in the limelight and makes you feel important talking all about it, but the fact is, none of you does. You're all just a bunch of hairless monkeys sharing the planet with 6 billion other monkeys each of whom wish they were the Golden Monkey.

You're not the Golden Monkey with special supernatural abilities. You're just another boring monkey. Get over it already

To start, I have never claimed the ability to share dreams puts me above anyone else. I believe anyone can do it if they try. That includes you. If you choose not to, that is your choice.

Where do you get off acting like you're so much better than everyone else? If we're all just hairless monkeys then you are just another monkey in the crowd claiming you have all the answers, you are no Golden Monkey, either.

Originally Posted by WarriorTiger

Wow, wikipedia huh? Wait, that the free online encyclopedia where anyone can put anything and claim it as true. I have seen so many messed up pages on it that I have lost count. Most colleges now are not allowing it as a useful reference, why are you?

Scientists are currently working on explaining telepathy. I think most of you will find the following video quite interesting:
http://channel.nationalgeographic.co...ideos/05087_00

Wow, how sarcastic are you?

I'm using it as a quick reference point, in an online forum discussion. We're not writing a thesis here. The simple point is, she's a journalist (as it says on her own site), and not trained in physics. So it would seem in this case wikipedia is spot on.

Scientists have been studying these sorts of claims for YEARS this is nothing new. What is important though, is that since the 60s, there has been nothing, no shred of evidence to back up the existence of telepathy.

What you should have really written is:

"Scientists are currently working on studying claims of telepathy."

not

"Scientists are currently working on explaining telepathy."

which is loaded and assumes a result.

So I take it you didn't watch the video, which outright says scientists are working on explaining telepathy. Their words, not mine. And yes sarcasm is just another free service I offer.

Science is not about proving your theory, it is about disproving it. If one can not disprove the theory then it is assumed correct. It only takes one disproof to discredit a theory. You can prove ti multiple times, but if there ever occurs a disproof then you have failed. So yes, they are trying to explain telepathy, for there has been no current disproof of this theory.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

Wow, how sarcastic are you?

I'm using it as a quick reference point, in an online forum discussion. We're not writing a thesis here. The simple point is, she's a journalist (as it says on her own site), and not trained in physics. So it would seem in this case wikipedia is spot on.

Cool. I think I will get on Wikipedia and post exactly how shared dreaming is possible. And then I will start my own website and I think I will credit myself with a few PHD's and such. Of course those credentials will be BS, but no one else will know that. So when these two things are put together everyone will believe in shared dreaming. And yes, the sarcasm is intentional.

Wikipedia is a really questionable source for someone as scientific as yourself.

Originally Posted by WarriorTiger

So I take it you didn't watch the video, which outright says scientists are working on explaining telepathy. Their words, not mine. And yes sarcasm is just another free service I offer.

Science is not about proving your theory, it is about disproving it. If one can not disprove the theory then it is assumed correct. It only takes one disproof to discredit a theory. You can prove ti multiple times, but if there ever occurs a disproof then you have failed. So yes, they are trying to explain telepathy, for there has been no current disproof of this theory.

I watched the video again, i've already seen it.

I still think it's better to word things in a less loaded way.
But them it was TV, so they want more dramatic soundbites.

Originally Posted by insight

...What's all that offensive language about?

Not sure if you're talking to me? Where's "all the offensive language"? Sorry, it's hard to tell who's talking to who sometimes on a forum and it's early in the morning so my brain is still half asleep so sorry if you're talking to someone else.

Originally Posted by Raven Knight

To start, I have never claimed the ability to share dreams puts me above anyone else.

Not specifically no. I'm sure none of you is silly enough to come on and actually state that you think you're above anyone else. And in fact, I never actually claimed that you do think this. There's a difference between feeling important and believing oneself to be above someone. It's a subtle difference but there one.

Originally Posted by Raven Knight

Where do you get off acting like you're so much better than everyone else?

I can't be responsible for your interpretation of how I'm acting. If you think I'm acting like I'm much better than everyone else that's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

Originally Posted by Raven Knight

If we're all just hairless monkeys then you are just another monkey in the crowd claiming you have all the answers, you are no Golden Monkey, either.

Yes indeed I'm just another monkey in the crowd but no I'm not "claiming to have all the answers" and yes I know I am no Golden Monkey either

Anyway, I don't actually care to discuss it any further. It's a glorious morning and I'm going out for the day. I'm not coming back to this thread. I think if you youngsters want to explore the phenomena of shared dreaming then great! We need enthusiastic people like yourselves who are full of energy and optimism to explore the universe we live in and make new discoveries. And who knows, there may even be a Golden Monkey amongst you after all? You won't know unless you try!

So go for it! I wish you all the best with your quest! I sincerely hope one or some of you find the proof needed to show the world about your discoveries so that everyone can learn about and partake in this great adventure of shared dreaming.

I'll keep my eyes and ears out for any big news headlines in the future!

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

From wikipedia:

"McTaggart's program is not accepted by mainstream medicine and not supported by scientific evidence, although references to mainstream scientific concepts are made. Despite references to quantum mechanics, McTaggart is not a physicist and her ideas are not supported by mainstream physicists."

* New discoveries are not accepted by mainstream (medicine and physicists) at once.
* Scientists are also humen - they too have prejudices.
* I didn't recommend the book because of the theories by McTaggart, but rather because of the interesting references to scientific studies !
* Newton also wasn't too popular with his ideas (at first) by the mainstream thinkers. And with that I'm not encouraging that all ideas not well-known but still cool should be accepted as truth.

Originally Posted by DreamQueen

You're just another boring monkey. Get over it already

I didn't take your statement personally and I don't mean mine to you personally neither. "Everyone's views on life and the world gives more about information about themselves than the world and life"

Originally Posted by WakingNomad

You make me smile.

You make me smile with that phrase

Originally Posted by Raven Knight

I like your face

Originally Posted by insight

I didn't take your statement personally and I don't mean mine to you personally neither. "Everyone's views on life and the world gives more about information about themselves than the world and life"

No worries!

Right,

I've been thinking about shared dreaming, and thinking of the benifits it would bestow upon whomever could do it.

Having thought about it, there are several thoughts I'd like to share. Having had these thoughts, it'd made me realise how very narrowminded we can become about these subjects, how we can only see them through the filters of our own lives. This got me thinking further, and there is a phrase I think that if you take the time to really ponder it, speaks volumes about the subject.
That pharase is:

"Necessity is the mother of invention"

Now what do I mean by that?

Well, let's take a completely different perspective here shall we, shall we forget our own happy healthy lives, our freedoms, our comfortable existence.
And let us project ourselves into the lives of others, who are not as gifted.

Necessity...

Consider for a moment, the thousands of people on this planet, both alive today, and the billions who have gone before us. People afflicted with chronic disability, or perhaps those who have been kidnapped, held hostage or are otherwise cut off from the luxury of social contact we take forgranted.

I'll stick with the disability angle as it avoids confusion.
Let's take one person as an example, Dr Stephen Hawkins.
Here is a man trapped in a body that does not function, to the point where he cannot even communicate verbally. Now think, how many others there are like him.

Consider, the intense motivations, the frustrations, the constant daily stress of not being able to communicate with those you love. The Necessity.

Let us stick with Dr Hawkins, and let us also remind ourselves, here is one of the greatest minds of our time.

Are we arrogant and short sighted enough, to not accept that people in this kind of position, would not have considered EVERY possible means to communicate with their loved ones possible?
Being stuck, trapped in their own minds, every single agonising second of each day.

Would you not crave a means to communicate?

Back to Dr Hawkins, here is a man who can outthink any of us here in this forum. He understand things that many of us would take years to even comprehend, let alone ADD TO the knowledge of those fields.

Do you think he, with his great mind, and the restrictions imposed upon his life, would not have investigated shared dreaming, would not have followed the lead through to a conclusion that could potentially offer him a freedom he can only dream of (no pun intended).
Do you think that if he saw a glimmer of possibility in shared dreaming, he would not have jumped into that possibility with a motivation to understand it, more than we could ever muster.

Necessity is the mother of invention.


So why?
When there are people out there, and have been for generations, who live such restricted lives, who crave to communicate with their loved ones.
Why have they, OF ALL PEOPLE, not developed this skill?

necessity is the mother of invention.

Now, put things into perspective people, see outside the box of your comfortable healthy lives.

See beyond the fuzzy warm feelings the new age books give you.

See the world for the place it is, both beautiful and tragic at the same time.

Think of the frustrations and deep deep aching motivations some unforunate people will have to communicate with others, when they have utterly no power to do so.

It may be all fun and games to play "lets share dreams" when it's just an oddity, a fun little game us healthy lucky people have the freedom to take lightheartedly.

But for some people, that skill, would be the doorway to freedom, a release that we cannot even dream about.

Necessity is the mother of invention.

So why then, with such a powerful and vastly overpowering necessity, has such a skill never been used as a release for these people?

Think about it.
And think about the minds of people like Dr Hawkins, who tower above us intellectually... people who would not only free themselves with such an ability, but would also be in a position to share it with the scientific community with an authority to have it taken completely seriously.

And consider what lengths people will go to for freedom, such as the young man who cut his own leg off with a spade, to escape the rubble of an earthquake recently.

If necessity is the mother of invention, then there is a very very big lack of invention, considering the wave of necessity that overwhelms so many peoples lives.

I think that says a hell of a lot.

^ I think this post says it all really.

I tried to be encouraging with my last post because, hey, I don't want to knock anyone who is trying to get out there and do something positive but sheesh, it kind of puts it all in perspective really doesn't it?

I think anyone who tries to argue that they're having shared dreams in the light of spaceexplorer's post is really going to make themselves look incredibly childish and immature, not to mention disrespectful to people who are in such positions as S/E described - sorry, just telling it like it is.

Maybe stick to the video games hmmm?