Thread: Shared Dreaming Experiment: Space Explorer and Waking Nomad

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

It's nothing to do with being open minded.
It's to do with realisng that life is short, and that investing time into a pointless exercise is like throwing good money after bad.

If you wish to continue to spend the precious time in your life, chasing rainbows... go ahead.

So taking a bit of time to do a minor experiment which really only requires that you remember your dreams is a waste of time. But coming in here every day and arguing against the very same topics is a better investment of your time?

From the time you've invested in these arguments already, that statement is a little hypocritical to say the least.

Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

Well, you don't need to say it that way but i still can't believe you are backing out because of that. You were looking forward to this then *poof* had a moment, and now you are saying because these guys could not do it, it's impossible. How is that even rational? I guess i just can't understand your way of thinking.

How would it be rational to carry on with something that is a complete waste of time, as this experiment would be since the design of it does not rule out chance? When someone who knows what they're talking about (ie someone with a university paper which covers Experimental Design) tells you that a journey you are about to embark on is going to lead nowhere, you listen. At least a smart person does

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that way of thinking

Originally Posted by The Cusp

So taking a bit of time to do a minor experiment which really only requires that you remember your dreams is a waste of time. But coming in here every day and arguing against the very same topics is a better investment of your time?

From the time you've invested in these arguments already, that statement is a little hypocritical to say the least.

Coming in here and arguing against stupidity at least has the chance of improving the world by enlightening deluded people. Getting involved in the aforementioned experiment is a complete waste of time. It's not hypocritical at all.

^^^ Exactly ^^^

Oh, so it's a public service you provide!

I still don't see the difference between what you're trying to do and what Mormons try to do when they accost people on the street in an attempt to convert them.

Originally Posted by The Cusp

Oh, so it's a public service you provide!

I still don't see the difference between what you're trying to do and what Mormons try to do when they accost people on the street in an attempt to convert them.

The ironic nature of this post is hilarious.

Hold on one moment...

you're the one with the unsubstantiated, evidence free, belief system that contradicts modern science, trying to indoctrinate others and claiming that faith based anecdotes are enough to justify a belief in something, that if true, would shake the foundations of society to its core. Whilst at the same time, shunning any kind of hard questioning with the smoke screen of "oh they are just closed minded..."

Whist, people like myself, come in here and simply say... "um, hold on a second, that's a hell of a big claim you're making there, and you've got no clear evidence to back it up, and well... it kind of contradicts some of the most basic principles of science. Maybe you shouldn't be so quick to jump to really way out conclusions, and consider some of the more down to earth and plausable explanations first?"

But, yeah... we're the ones most like the Mormons... riiiiiight.


ps.... oh and lets not forget to mention, that like the Mormons, you guys have had to set up your own little hide away from the rest of society, where no one can ask difficult questions, because only believers and yes men can go.... they call it a church, you call it the deep dreaming forum.

Like the mormons because you're trying to force your views on people who really aren't interested in hearing them. Also like the mormons you're doing this because you want to "save them". There's also an air or righteousness that you share with them as well. I stand by my metaphor!

Ever heard of christian scientists? Well you're a mormon scientist.

And nobody goes to church anymore. Likewise with the DD.

Well, that didn't go so well..

If you still are interested in the experiment I would gladly participate Raven Knight.

Originally Posted by DreamQueen

How would it be rational to carry on with something that is a complete waste of time, as this experiment would be since the design of it does not rule out chance? When someone who knows what they're talking about (ie someone with a university paper which covers Experimental Design) tells you that a journey you are about to embark on is going to lead nowhere, you listen. At least a smart person does

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that way of thinking

I'm surprised you havn't been banned yet, you're a complete waste of time to even have a debate with, always hostile and making smart ass comments. No, i am not going to find all your useless posts, as you say "it's a complete waste of time". Why don't you start putting some thought into what you say, you're a grown ass woman for crying out loud.



So you agree that because someone who is disabled and can't talk to loved ones can't SD's it's proven that it's impossible? i'm skeptic of SD but listen to what you're saying....

Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

I'm surprised you havn't been banned yet, you're a complete waste of time to even have a debate with, always hostile and making smart ass comments. No, i am not going to find all your useless posts, as you say "it's a complete waste of time". Why don't you start putting some thought into what you say, you're a grown ass woman for crying out loud.



So you agree that because someone who is disabled and can't talk to loved ones can't SD's it's proven that it's impossible? i'm skeptic of SD but listen to what you're saying....

DreamQueen, is an intelligent, polite and decent member of the forum.
She has many friends here, and is always quick to give sensible advice to new members looking for it.
To come here and make attacks against someones personality, judged purely from a handful of posts, where someone is defending themselves against dirty debate tactics , criticism and is frustrated by a pig-headed inability for people to at least question their own beliefs, in light of a more reasonable explanation... is I think, completely justified.


And you still fail to see the glaringly obvious point about chronically disabled people...

It does not PROVE it is impossible, it proves that despite there being a group of people, who would do anything to communicate with the outside world, that if even those people, with such a compelling motivation, have not learnt to develop skills that would set them free... then that does make you wonder why they havn't does it not?

I know for one, that If i had been born with such a disability, trapped in my own mind, that some of the very first things I would consider would be attempts at telepahy, dream sharing etc.
And considering, you would be spending every second of each day, trapped with nothing but your mind... that it would give you ample time to investigate and hone your skills.

When you compare people like this with such huge motivations, to a bunch of new-age westerners, who just-so-happen to have stumbled across shared dreaming, telepathy or any other of these skills... it really does put things into perspective.

No, its not conclusive evidence, but it's a hell of a compelling question isn't it?

If people are willing to spend millions developing devices that can allow the disabled to move a mouse cursor on a PC, via advanced brain scanning technology.... then, why, if there is such an easy to "stumble upon", ability for minds to reach beyond the confines of their body... why wasn't that ability the first port of call in research?

If you have huge limitations in your life, you tend to try and find solutions to those limitations.

To assume that perfectly coherent, normal human beings, who just so happen to suffer from bodily paralysis do not share the intelligence or insight to discover telepathy or shared dreaming, when a bunch of able bodied people have stumbled upon it and consider themselves "experts"... is condescending and offensive to those disabled people.

And if they had discovered it, would they not be shouting it out to the world? so they could help relieve the suffering of others like themselves?

Such as how Daniel Kish, the blind man who has developed the skill to be able to use echo location to help navigate around the world, and now teaches the skill to other blind people.
Why is it that he a blind man discovered it, rather than those of us who are not blind? because he had the motivation due to his limitations.
As I said before, necessity is the mother of invention...
Daniel Kish, had the necessity to overcome his limitations,
the same can be said for those with bodily paralysis...
but there are no Daniel Kish types in the community of those with sever bodily paralysis, using telepathic or dream sharing skills.


And this video is amazing, what an amazing man doing such a wonderful thing with his life, changing lives... and doing so in a way that makes perfect sense...

Actually the whole Stephen Hawking as a shared dreamer isn't a bad point.

In fact the dreams of handicapped people would be a great place to start looking for evidence of shared dreaming. If one takes the time to actually look into it and not just assume it doesn't happen because they haven't heard of it happening personally.

Originally Posted by The Cusp

Actually the whole Stephen Hawking as a shared dreamer isn't a bad point.

In fact the dreams of handicapped people would be a great place to start looking for evidence of shared dreaming. If one takes the time to actually look into it and not just assume it doesn't happen because they haven't heard of it happening personally.

If you havn't done so already, I'd really suggest watching the video in my last post. IF nothing else, it demonstrates the amazing power of human motivation and creativity to overcome limitations.

I just think, things like this put things in perspective.
It's very easy for us to see the world in a limited way... but if you push thoughts and concepts to the logical extremes, it does help to see the realities more clearly.

And yes I agree, it would be a great plce to start. I don't automatically assume it dosn't exist... i simply think that if it does, then like Daniel Kish, it will be those with strong motivations and needs, who make the discoverys.

And if it is lacking in those people, the question once again arises?
Why?
To which it seems to me, there can be only three possible answers:

1) no one has discovered it yet --- which makes you wonder how it is that able bodied people would discover it BEFORE those with such strong motivations - as people here are claiming.

2) it is too difficult, or unstable to be of any use to anyone

3) it simply dosn't exist.

The third answer, is the one that fits with current knowedge about physics, psychology, biology etc.

Dosn't make it right, but it does make it the answer that those, who weigh up the evidence before making conclusions, are more likely to sway to.
Dosn't mean we wouldn't change our minds, with compelling new evidence, just that it is the most plausable current answer based on the available evidence.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

Dosn't mean we wouldn't change our minds, with compelling new evidence, just that it is the most plausable current answer based on the available evidence.

Not everything is a clear cut logic problem. There are many other factors to consider.

Those people are already most likely hypersensitive about being differently-abled, and for the most part just want to fit in as best they can. Talking about paranormal experiences is not the best way to do that, because let me tell you, the reception is not very warm.

That blind guy is just lucky his "ability" has an easily understood explanation.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

DreamQueen, is an intelligent, polite and decent member of the forum.
She has many friends here, and is always quick to give sensible advice to new members looking for it.
To come here and make attacks against someones personality, judged purely from a handful of posts, where someone is defending themselves against dirty debate tactics , criticism and is frustrated by a pig-headed inability for people to at least question their own beliefs, in light of a more reasonable explanation... is I think, completely justified.

She's a troll, if you can't see it you need to open your eyes. I didn't attack her personality, i attacked her trollness in BD. People need to realize when you are on the internet, you are acting what your true personality is because you are behind a keyboard and able to get away with things you can't offline. I don't cry over words online, but it gets old when you see trolling all the time.

And you still fail to see the glaringly obvious point about chronically disabled people...

It does not PROVE it is impossible, it proves that despite there being a group of people, who would do anything to communicate with the outside world, that if even those people, with such a compelling motivation, have not learnt to develop skills that would set them free... then that does make you wonder why they havn't does it not?

You were just saying it was impossible yesterday. As for the question...not really, no. Even if they have done it, how would the other person or people know? it could be a normal dream for them, their dream journal could be nowhere, there would be alot of factors and if they really dream shared they would not care if we knew about it, they would only care that they can talk to their loved ones, or anyone. There are alot of things to consider, and this obviously can't be done on a whim.

When you compare people like this with such huge motivations, to a bunch of new-age westerners, who just-so-happen to have stumbled across shared dreaming, telepathy or any other of these skills... it really does put things into perspective.

I take what i read online with a grain of salt, but i wont rule it out because these people can't do it that we know of

No, its not conclusive evidence, but it's a hell of a compelling question isn't it?

It's a thinker, but it should not be given up if they were in that situation even if they have yet to see results.

If you have huge limitations in your life, you tend to try and find solutions to those limitations.

Depends on the person. I have a HUGE learning disability that was caught late, i have not done anything to improve it. Like i said, depends on the person.

To assume that perfectly coherent, normal human beings, who just so happen to suffer from bodily paralysis do not share the intelligence or insight to discover telepathy or shared dreaming, when a bunch of able bodied people have stumbled upon it and consider themselves "experts"... is condescending and offensive to those disabled people.

Like i said, take it with a grain of salt. it's online where everyone can play Liar and not have to be a Lawyer.

And if they had discovered it, would they not be shouting it out to the world? so they could help relieve the suffering of others like themselves?

Like i said, there is alot you have to consider. Even if they did it, it would not matter to them for anyone else. This is a selfish world, so aslong as they can do it to their loved ones that is all that would matter to them.


I normally don't like cutting posts up like these, but i just wanted to get the main things. I'll watch the video you linked and get back to you on it.

Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

She's a troll, if you can't see it you need to open your eyes. I didn't attack her personality, i attacked her trollness in BD. People need to realize when you are on the internet, you are acting what your true personality is because you are behind a keyboard and able to get away with things you can't offline. I don't cry over words online, but it gets old when you see trolling all the time.

You are attacking her personally.
And I disagree she is not a troll in any sense at all, she has her opinion, and she shares it.
That is what forums like this are for.

And I know DQ well enough, to know that she would act in exactly the same way, if faced by the same mindlessness in reality.

If some people have a lower BS tolerance than others, then good on them.
The world needs more people to not just be nodding yes men who are afraid to stand up to nonsense.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

You are attacking her personally.
And I disagree she is not a troll in any sense at all, she has her opinion, and she shares it.
That is what forums like this are for.

If some people have a lower BS tolerance than others, then good on them.
The world needs more people to not just be nodding yes men, who are afraid to stand up to nonsense.

She comes in here to laugh at people who don't have her POV, that is called trolling...Aslong as you come into threads with the intent of laughing at people's POV, or calling them names (she called me stupid by saying "At least a smart person does

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that way of thinking " )

But anyway i don't care, you are just making a big deal out of it. I'm done talking about a troll...and getting me to talk about her is just baiting her to come back, so enough.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

And this video is amazing, what an amazing man doing such a wonderful thing with his life, changing lives... and doing so in a way that makes perfect sense...

Nice video, like you said, it shows what a person can do when they are motivated.