Thread: Aaronoscar's Workbook

Hi all,

This workbook is both a way for me to deepen practice as a lucid dreamer in general (specifically trying to overcome an infrequent access to lucidity) and also as a focus while I’m here in India, with immersing in practice as a core intention, and at the moment I’m in quite a spacious place where I’m creating a dream yoga retreat-schedule to help practice to flourish!
The workbook seems like a great way to share bits of the experience and efforts, another way to reinforce intention and build momentum as well as receive feedback & help and hopefully work with some of the challenges in my practice.

I’ve been into lucid dreaming for about 6-7 years now but really sought to develop it as a committed path in the last 4 years. …It’s been a real mix! Overall I know I’m in it for the long haul, though have found it (very similar as my friend Patjunfa describes in his workbook) a slower journey than I’d like - with a spectrum of results along the way of course.
At times I may have a few lucid in a month, sometimes long gaps despite regular and committed efforts and then other times, unbidden, really rich experiences.
Dream recall at the moment is quite good and it’s pretty much a constant - as in actual recall may fluctuate but dream journaling is pretty much a consistent practice I keep up.

I think my main issue in becoming lucid more regularly is not having a technique I feel I have solid enough to make reliable use of. Probably my most frequent trigger is DILD either through reality checking (as a habit that’s very well developed in waking though hasn’t fruited as much as I’d expect in dreaming) or after WBTB, though this too I haven't found my niche with and would say that maybe 1 in 4 WBTBs lead to some sort of lucidity.

So one thing I’m looking for in this workbook is feeling more at home with a technique, but also as my daytime momentum is usually quite good I’d like to explore more how this can translate to nighttime lucidity in DILD.

As part of the retreat environment here, the main things I’m wanting to give focus to are hypnopompic awareness (which has been an edge of mine at times, so would like to really sharpen it as a more ready tool), napping (I usually find it hard to make use of my naps for WILD or lucidity in general, would like to get better with that. Often can notice hypnagogia well but then feels like a lighter sleep that’s hard to probe lucidity with), having time for writing on lucid topics, and daytime intention setting.

This is actually my second time coming to this place for DY immersion, though I really valued the first time I only had a brief lucid, so this time I’ve changed some focuses and had a significant lucid the night before arriving so I’m feeling more confident!

So I’ve been here 2 days but that’s been a mix between arriving and getting (still a good bit of) practice in. And playing with a schedule that fits.

My current dream goal is to revisit asking the dream about the health of a family member (though I’m open to non-lucid guidance).
Second goal in mind is calling out ‘what can I do to have more lucid more often?’
Though overall progress I’d be happy with is becoming more adept with reliable induction & frequency - perhaps about 3 stable lucids per week.

Also Patjunfa having started a workbook at the start of the month has been good motivation and momentum to do the same - so again, helps with the lucid mindset of “I can lucid dream” and confidence around efforts.

Any feedback welcome and even just comments that give me a reason to keep fuelling the workbook!
Thanks

Welcome Aaronoscar! That's awesome that you are on a dream yoga retreat!..and in India! I'm sure there are many (definitely myself) that would be interested to hear about your experiences with it. My mind is too tired tonight to respond properly but I wanted to welcome you and let you know that I do plan to give you feedback and assistance. I think this workbook is a good tool for what you are working towards.

Thanks for that fogelbise,

Yea for sure! I hope to do a bit of a write up on how it was to self structure a DY retreat and see what other ideas you guys have for future kinds.
Appreciate the check in - already feels like a nice boost to know there's other dreamers sharing the enthusiasm and there to help.

Only thing I've to add this morning is last nights intention was to rest and refocus (after the two nights before of going full on with alarms and wake ups) so tonight I'm fully intending to become lucid in a stable, beneficial dream!
Recall wasn't bad last night though quite a heavy quality of sleep that felt hard to bring much awareness into, even when noticing a micro awakening and beginning MILD...think I drifted quite quickly. Didn't mind so much because as I said was taking it easy last night.
So here's to setting daytime intentions and nighttime lucidity!

Yeahy, Welcome to Dreamviews Aaron! Will be interested to read about what induction techniques you are experimenting with, your exploration of hypnopomic awareness, and how a self styled dream yoga retreat goes. Best of luck :-)

Originally Posted by aaronoscar

Appreciate the check in - already feels like a nice boost to know there's other dreamers sharing the enthusiasm and there to help.

So here's to setting daytime intentions and nighttime lucidity!

-Absolutely, I want to see as many people as possible do well with lucid dreaming! It really is a joyful addition to my life.

-Exactly…and of course night time intentions with any WBTB or even right before bed.


And back to your OP:

I think my main issue in becoming lucid more regularly is not having a technique I feel I have solid enough to make reliable use of. Probably my most frequent trigger is DILD either through reality checking (as a habit that’s very well developed in waking though hasn’t fruited as much as I’d expect in dreaming) or after WBTB, though this too I haven't found my niche with and would say that maybe 1 in 4 WBTBs lead to some sort of lucidity.

-I really like SSILD for DILDs (can work for WILDs as well) and heavy visualizations for MILD. I alternate between those two techniques, always after a WBTB.

-Do you mean that the most common way that you become lucid without WBTB is spontaneously doing an RC during a dream and realizing that you are dreaming or do you mean perhaps that your RCs during the day are raising your awareness enough to have a DILD?

-WBTB - I think you can increase this current 1 in 4 rate with SSILD and/or the right kind of MILD (and probably other techs).

And back to your OP:
-I really like SSILD for DILDs (can work for WILDs as well) and heavy visualizations for MILD. I alternate between those two techniques, always after a WBTB.

I'm not so familiar with SSILD - I'll check it out! MILD is one I'd really like to improve on. May be a specific focus v soon. From what I recall of the times I did give efforts to it - I remember a hit once or twice, but a lot of other attempts would have me feeling optimistic with the technique when I got a few reps done (but left me very awake after and sleep had little opportunity for lucidity... and at other times (like my challenge with WILD is falling asleep without a sense of drifting off, so next think I know I'd have woke in the morning after having thought I was giving the technique a try

That's an odd recurrence for me with WILD - often at the beginning of the night I have very sharp awareness in getting 21 present breaths in and resting with good awareness; often acutely noticing tellings of hypnagogia or hynagogic thoughts straying from awareness. Though after WBTBs or micro awakenings I can quickly slip into sleep without the same attentiveness of hynagogia...
Of course though there's been plenty of other times where its been a slow decent into sleep, with lovely sense of meditative awareness too.

-Do you mean that the most common way that you become lucid without WBTB is spontaneously doing an RC during a dream and realizing that you are dreaming or do you mean perhaps that your RCs during the day are raising your awareness enough to have a DILD?

Quite a mix of both. I've a good level of consistently RCing during the day - sometimes triggering spontaneous lucids (though not as often as the habit would lead me to expect).
Then also after WBTB when I have lucids it's often from a RC triggering DILD.

-WBTB - I think you can increase this current 1 in 4 rate with SSILD and/or the right kind of MILD (and probably other techs).

Thanks - I had some WILD lucidity last night which I'll separately post on now

So as an update of last few days - the night before last I set 3 alarms through the night, though had the specific intention to notice micro awakenings.
Recall was quite ok but not outstanding and only noticed one micro awakening. Again the quality of sleep felt very heavy, hard to bring awareness to or to rouse with good awareness after alarms.

Though I'm really pleased with last night's results: through the day I'd been less on point with setting affirming intentions for the night but did do short bits of practice and simulating failed reality checks along with what I'd do if I became lucid. Then after dinner I sat for an hours meditation and got back into the mindset of cultivating lucidity and setting the intention to act out dream plan.
I scheduled WBTB after 6 hrs and saved drawing out my dream plan and setting more intention till then. Also had a nice, settled quality of attention for about 20mins meditation on WBTB.

So the drift to sleep was very still & pleasant, about 20/30mins so nice time to allow for 21breaths, resting and resetting intention.
Noticed a little, but not major, hypnagogia and presume I dropped off for a bit but quickly found attention on dream voices of my aunt and uncle, realising a dream wasn't far off forming. Felt sensations along my back so I intended that to be my aunt rubbing my back and slowly brought more solidity and form. This faded but I chained into another sense of dreams not being far -opening my dream eyes into an almost fully formed dream.
Was nice and bright, in a health food shop, so I began to engage senses - handful of beans, tried eating soap (not much taste but turkish delight texture!). Though didn't want to overly buy into the need to solidify.
This faded but managed to chain again, the same dream reforming. Think I had the urge to jog, as this has been a good stabiliser before, so went outside into dark street, not feeling the dream was solid enough to begin DP... then I think I lost visuals again and probably slipped into non-lucidity after... as this would've been around 5am but then woke at 7 without any other recall.

So overall really satisfied at good awareness and the ease that WILD came with - I read your post fogelbise 'something every newbie should read' and also read a post on WILDs not being as hard as they're made out to be. So was great to uproot challenging schemas!
And pleased at the quality of awareness I had while also reforming back to lucids.
Slight disappointment I didn't get to begin DP as I felt very connected after efforts ramping up in the evening...but 2 lucid this week after long month or more of dry spells is enough to be happy with.

No time to take the foot off the gas now though! Thanks both of you for the feedback and assistance in keeping the workbook as momentum

Oh and had set intention for micro awakenings before the alarm after 6 hours...but no such carry over. Finding them a bit elusive over the last few weeks

Congratulations on the WILD and chaining!

Originally Posted by aaronoscar

From what I recall of the times I did give efforts to it - I remember a hit once or twice, but a lot of other attempts would have me feeling optimistic with the technique when I got a few reps done (but left me very awake after and sleep had little opportunity for lucidity... and at other times (like my challenge with WILD is falling asleep without a sense of drifting off, so next think I know I'd have woke in the morning after having thought I was giving the technique a try

Finding the balance between being too awake and falling asleep too fast takes practice...sounds like you found the right balance last night, which means you can do it over and over again! Have you experimented with WBTB after 4.5 hours, perhaps with longer wbtb's? Finding the right balance can be achieved through both the time you get up for WBTB and the length of time you stay out of bed.

Originally Posted by aaronoscar

...but did do short bits of practice and simulating failed reality checks along with what I'd do if I became lucid.

I also do this and find it especially helpful when finding the fun/joy in the practice. As you are doing, I also find this is great for planning lucid goals.

So overall really satisfied at good awareness and the ease that WILD came with - I read your post fogelbise 'something every newbie should read' and also read a post on WILDs not being as hard as they're made out to be. So was great to uproot challenging schemas!

I think this is very valuable in lucid dreaming. Next time you read anything negative that might infect other people's schema, just remember that it doesn't have to infect yours. Simply remember your personal experiences that disprove negative remarks you have seen in the past…perhaps your experience with WILD that you mentioned here...and I bet you can find other examples.

And pleased at the quality of awareness I had while also reforming back to lucids.
...2 lucid this week after long month or more of dry spells is enough to be happy with.

Awesome and awesome! Holding on to awareness between these transitions is something to be proud of…now come to expect that as your standard way of surfing these transitions. And great job breaking the dry spell with 2 LDs this week! Congratulations again Aaronoscar!

Brilliant! Thank you fogelbise - again really encouraging to have a thread I continue to feed into as well as others to contribute!

As for the WBTBs, actually yea, my main timings with the practice of them over the last few years has been after 4.5 hrs to give plenty of chance for the rest of the night to follow. Often Patjunfa and I might meet on a WBTB so the timing usually works out as an hours to and hour & half of activity before going to sleep again. When the drift back takes longer it often amounts in my wakefulness being 1.5 - 2 hrs (though I'd say 1.5 on average). Usually if it's a solo one I'll just wake for an hour and go back to sleep, maybe less if I'd rather avoid a longer journey back to sleep

Now looking to follow Andrew Holecek's advice on 6 hrs of sleep being his pattern as a change to see if I can follow it up with lucidity with more accuracy.
Though I think it's good advice to play with the timings and perhaps when home again I can keep a log of WBTBs and compare results at the end of each month: looking for patterns on what works most effectively for me.

Originally Posted by fogelbise

Holding on to awareness between these transitions is something to be proud of…now come to expect that as your standard way of surfing these transitions.

Excellent advice! Thanks.

Really good way of relating and sowing seeds of expecting to surf these states with competence and ease.
Recently had great advice from Robert Waggoner about uprooting negative beliefs and affirming a new beneficial schema. Such as whenever I think of lucid dreaming, rather than just affirming I'll become lucid 'tonight' or whenever, lay more of a beneficial groundwork - as in when noticing any thought to do with lucid dreaming, then follow it with 'I can have long lucid dreams with ease. A stable dream would feel just like this, I lucid dream easily.'
I really took to this and enjoyed doing it. Have now fallen out of the habit, but mixed in with simulated RCs and this new way of expecting consistent standards of transitions and the like, feels like an enjoyable new recipe for practice.



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Had an 'open to whatever arises' intent last night after feeling quite wrecked by evening.
Woke after 2hrs for the toilet and had great recall of two dreams... v surprised.
Then didn't wake again till morning, though with very good recall for lack of micro awareness to break the cycles.

Tonight's schedule is to go for a full on version of WBTB and get up 2hrs early, stay awake for 2hrs and then sleep on.
New recipe I haven't explicitly followed before.

Very nice! Practices that you enjoy can be a real boost to consistency.

That's great that you have someone else very interested in lucid dreaming that you can meet up with regularly…and during WBTB no less!

I definitely believe in experimenting with WBTB timing, at least until you find what works best for you. 4.5 hours seems ideal for me and others, while 6 hours seems ideal for Mr Holecek and others. This is a good reminder that people are different in what works best for them, each having to find our own way within some loose framework of "tried and true" practices.

It’s been non-lucid on the efforts this week. Have really put a lot of effort into Monday & Tuesday’s afternoon & evening practice (as well as the heavfty WBTB efforts!) and now moving into a different pace of life where I’m staying. I’ll still be here till Sunday but wont be able to devote the same amount of time into dream practices as I have been - will still keep up the daytime practices but just wont have the time to do long reading stints or naps etc. Have been able to enjoy longer drifts to sleep on the WBTBs and beginnings of HH, but nothing to then lead to lucidity.
Next intentions building on the piece below is just to continue on with WILD attempts, just without long WBTBs, so I guess experimenting with short - medium wake ups. And also to begin practicing SSILD tonight.

It’s been interesting though over the last week in - seeing the meander between loosing the vibrance of rehearsing a dream goal and yet the mental preparation it gives at the same time.
For example, doing the simulated reality checks and becoming lucid; I’m still really connected with my dream plan of asking about a loved one’s health (following up aspects I'm not clear on from my last solid lucid). Though in doing the simulation, I find rehearsing a similar scenario less fresh for having that carryover momentum that can lead to lucidity. I’m still motivated for the goal but yet the technique doesn't carry the freshness as I’m still with the same dream plan I haven't been able to follow through with.
The interesting paradox to that is by repeating this scenario and being very clear on what my steps are once I become lucid, it’s probably laying a solid layer of familiarity to be able to recall the dream plan and initial motions to go through for when I do become lucid.

I’ve found at other times in the past when I haven't been able to lucidly follow my goal I’ve just temporarily lost interest, made note of the goal to revisit and put it on the back burner (or in the cupboard for that analogy!) then moved on to a different goal. I don't want to do that though this time, as it’s something I’d like to follow up with as soon as I can it’s not the case that I’ll put it aside and focus on lucidity through another goal… 



If you’ve any recommendations or even if not, and just have any thought to add to this thread, they’re very welcome! It’s an interesting topic to explore for me anyway cause it’s a common route. But with the interesting twist this time that I don’t want to take a fork in the road…so how does one persist and still keep a freshness to expect results and use the freshness to help induce the results?

Originally Posted by aaronoscar

It’s been non-lucid on the efforts this week. Have really put a lot of effort into Monday & Tuesday’s afternoon & evening practice (as well as the heavfty WBTB efforts!)

Sometimes a lot of effort comes with a feeling of pressure being put on yourself which doesn't seem to be ideal for lucid dreaming, but not sure if that could be the case for you. Sometimes when we get to a "when it happens, it happens" lighthearted attitude it helps, especially if we suspect that we may be putting too much pressure on ourselves. Did you experience any jet lag on your trip?

And also to begin practicing SSILD tonight.

Awesome! Try to remember to look out for bedroom scenes, beds, pillows, sleeping partners, common in false awakenings in case you get any FAs.

It’s been interesting though over the last week in - seeing the meander between loosing the vibrance of rehearsing a dream goal and yet the mental preparation it gives at the same time.
For example, doing the simulated reality checks and becoming lucid; I’m still really connected with my dream plan of asking about a loved one’s health (following up aspects I'm not clear on from my last solid lucid). Though in doing the simulation, I find rehearsing a similar scenario less fresh for having that carryover momentum that can lead to lucidity. I’m still motivated for the goal but yet the technique doesn't carry the freshness as I’m still with the same dream plan I haven't been able to follow through with.
The interesting paradox to that is by repeating this scenario and being very clear on what my steps are once I become lucid, it’s probably laying a solid layer of familiarity to be able to recall the dream plan and initial motions to go through for when I do become lucid.

I’ve found at other times in the past when I haven't been able to lucidly follow my goal I’ve just temporarily lost interest, made note of the goal to revisit and put it on the back burner (or in the cupboard for that analogy!) then moved on to a different goal. I don't want to do that though this time, as it’s something I’d like to follow up with as soon as I can it’s not the case that I’ll put it aside and focus on lucidity through another goal… 



If you’ve any recommendations or even if not, and just have any thought to add to this thread, they’re very welcome! It’s an interesting topic to explore for me anyway cause it’s a common route. But with the interesting twist this time that I don’t want to take a fork in the road…so how does one persist and still keep a freshness to expect results and use the freshness to help induce the results?

You might meditate on it but one idea that might give you some direction would be to keep that goal in place, keep that rehearsal practice in place but perhaps:

-think of a new way to simulate the RC showing you are dreaming
-lightly think yeah i will do this that and that (thinking of your main goal in a light "I know exactly what to do already" and after…
-afterwards I will do this new exciting/fresh goal.

That may give you some ideas on how you want to approach this challenge but let me know if you have more questions.

Originally Posted by fogelbise

Sometimes a lot of effort comes with a feeling of pressure being put on yourself which doesn't seem to be ideal for lucid dreaming, but not sure if that could be the case for you. Sometimes when we get to a "when it happens, it happens" lighthearted attitude it helps, especially if we suspect that we may be putting too much pressure on ourselves. Did you experience any jet lag on your trip?

Ha, well no jet lag happily...I've been in India since November now
Hmm, pressure in the sense of feeling committed to the dream plan but not as much in 'needing' to get lucid. Have been feeling really confident with recent efforts too so it's just surprising when that doesn't translate. (I'm quite well used to that by this stage though! It's very much been a live journey of 'not too tight, not too loose' and practicing humour as part of the un-results

Originally Posted by fogelbise

You might meditate on it but one idea that might give you some direction would be to keep that goal in place, keep that rehearsal practice in place but perhaps:

-think of a new way to simulate the RC showing you are dreaming
-lightly think yeah i will do this that and that (thinking of your main goal in a light "I know exactly what to do already" and after…
-afterwards I will do this new exciting/fresh goal.

That may give you some ideas on how you want to approach this challenge but let me know if you have more questions.

Thanks, I'll persevere alright. The add on goal could be nice to bring in, even just for the freshness, as in practice if I follow through with goal I'm pretty sure I'll wake after so as to ensure accurate and strong recall. Will play with it all anyway

^ Sounds good

Originally Posted by aaronoscar

...and practicing humour as part of the un-results

I like this approach

lightly think yeah i will do this that and that (thinking of your main goal in a light "I know exactly what to do already" and after…
-afterwards I will do this new exciting/fresh goal.

That sounds like a good way to keep a dream goal ongoing when its losing some of its ability to excite. Like wrapping it in the excitement of another goal,. Hadn't thought of it before. From recent experience, I'm of the mind that having a number of goals to accomplish within a lucid dream, can give the dream purpose to stay focused and stable

Hey again,
Sorry had hoped to get a post in before going quiet for a bit - have been on the move a bit this mont though had gotten a few good WBTBs in during the first week before I changed spots.
Just finished up on a zen retreat and now have another 5 days in the peace of the centre before moving on again.
Been having really nice sense of strong continuity of keeping practice in mind..though no lucidity yet
During the retreat it was lesss of a focus but still felt very optimistic as good conditions were there. Did a WBTB one of the nights but no massive carryover.

Last night did the same, lovely sitting in the meditation hall here at 2am on WBTB, night cool night under the stars...great intentions during the day and felt confident after reading lucid material and journaling a strong dream from night before...
But shoddy enough recall this morning. Oh well. Will try carry momentum into a nap today.

Has been really nice working with the dream from the night before last - during the day I'd been reading "Sleeping, Dreaming, Dying" and really impressed by the 'angry tiger' dream one of the psychotherapists described in it. Ironically enough I had a striking dream of an angry tiger! (always lovely when there's a powerful, realsitic creature like that in dreams)
Had a nice illusory form perspective on life the next day after journaling with it - thinking 'there's very little correlation between the meaning behind the tiger in the dream described in the book and the meaning I've journaled with my tiger...yet the tiger metaphor and representation fits so well for my interpretation... How absolutely ironic, hard to believe...yet dreamlike in that essence!' Especially as the potential event behind my tiger had only happened the same day after reading...seemed like such a sychronistic overlap or simply that I'm reading meaning into the dream that fits in that way.
Either way, really enthused about the use of dreams beyond my usual dream journal archive just building up masses of them. Especially when lucidity hasnt been arising despite efforts. Still nice to use dream efforts and goals in some way that isnt reliant on lucidty.

Have a few goals in mind and determined to have a lucid before I leave here and before the end of Feb.
Will keep trying to check in regularly as possible

It's is good to hear from you again. I believe that consistency in performing lucid dreaming practices is an important factor for almost every practitioner. Sometimes we can become lucid even if we haven't been consistently practicing each day, but that is usually residue from recent consistency.

It sounds like your are having a lot of interesting experiences on your trip and I hope you have a lovely remainder of your trip if I don't hear from you again before then.

Quick end of February update- as have been messaging with Patjunfa, have been feeling a bit distant from lucid enthusiasm as last 2 weeks efforts had been all for one but none at all
Had been going through what felt a bit like lucid lock out with a good few WBTBs, enthusiastic daytime practice but no nightly carryover.

Last night was good as a last-chance-February effort and happily had some nice lucid carryover (so I can be happy to say I got lucid ONCE at least in Feb. Ironic in that my average at home would be 2-3 per month and here I am dedicating dream yoga efforts abroad )
Though it unfortunately was short there was a nice small victory of progress within that - had lost visuals quickly after lucidity and then your suggestion fogelbise came to mind- about how you often affirm things even if they're not there yet. So I began affirming being in my aunt and uncles living room, really feeling the texture of their couch. Soon enough that's where I found myself.
I began investigating the solidly of things and seemed to be stuck on reifying them: unable to put my hand through objects despite affirming they're all made if dream material.
I soon moved on to my dream plan and shouted out, very clearly, "how can I have more lucid dreams more often? ...Please give me a clear understanding of what I can do."
I think a dream character threw a spoon at me and then went to get another wooden utensil that looked interesting...possibly a honey stirrer (I don't think it was also going to be used as a projectile but who knows).
But the dream collapsed then suddenly and I waited my way into non lucid sleeping for the next hour or so.

I think it may have collapsed as a background doubt is sometimes in mind when I shout intentions. Possibly due to collapsing being a kind of regular reaction but maybe partly due to expecting that... Hard to know but shouting feels like the intent is really there and when works carries through with more response...
Unless the spoon was a reference to the matrix quote "there is no spoon" (which Patjunfa and I often pass back and forth)... Other than that I can only interpret it as your unfriendly neighbourhood dream character strikes again.

There's been a lovely carryover today of renewed drive and awareness with rcs and a boosted confidence for lucid efforts again after such a dry spell. Lucid mindset and expectation feels closer to hand.
Expecting good results tonight and even if not, feeling good for March!

When I read your post I was thinking of a spoon for a bit of Galantamine or something? Dunno...gud luck

Could be... Will have to wait another 6 weeks and see.

Had a tender night last night and asked for dreams of healing, release and nourishment.
Woke with a few strong dreams to recall - arriving home and being surrounded by loving hugs from you all again (reality checked cause I couldn't believe I was back but my hand was deceiving.., I think it was better non lucid anyway.) Then some other threads of aggression or unrest in other dreams, all very vivid and poignant.
Will get to work with em on bus today. So nice to have such direct response to request for significant dreams.

Very nice aaronoscar! Lucid while remembering something to try and succeeding at bringing back visuals! And then your success with the loving hugs dream and probably at least semi-lucid to think to look at your hand…I know what you mean about some dreams being better non-lucid - I have had that same feeling after some dreams that seem to carry a message that I might have ran off from, if lucid, to do some lucid goal. I would call this two