Stabilization - techniques vs mindset

[Rallan]

So far I have been reasonably successful in inducing lucid dreams (for a beginner at least!) However, like many others, I have been struggling with dream stabilization. I have read through the tutorials here and every night would have a 'stabilization plan' for if I became lucid. I would usually remember to do the things I'd planned, which would seem to help, but only really in the area of prolonging the dream; I would still regularly be almost blacking out. However I then realised something. I had been thinking so much about what to do when lucid, what techniques to use and making sure I remember to do them, that in the lucid dreams I would be doing them with an almost frantic mindset. Sort of like, 'wow I'm dreaming! Okay, must stabilize. I need to do this, then this...must not wake up! Must stabilize! STABILIZE!!' Maybe that's a little exaggerated, but hopefully my point is clear. I feel I've been trying too hard to do the techniques that people say helps stabilize dreams, at the expense of cultivating the state of mind that would likely keep me grounded and possibly improve things considerably. I'm thinking that for a little while I may just make my stabilization plan to 'be calm'. If I remember, I will still try to do techniques like looking at detail, touching things and speaking out loud, but for now I feel that trying to remember and immediately act out a list of things to do when lucid may be what is causing me to lose stability! If I can remember to be calm, chances are a lot of the usual techniques will flow naturally from being more grounded. Does this make sense to people? Does anyone else think that emphasizing techniques over mindset can be unhelpful?

[KonchogTashi]

I understand completely what you are saying and can relate very well. I am beginning to think that most of the time I become lucid due to changes in brain chemistry that are occurring near the time when I naturally wake. 90% of my LDs have occurred at the end of my night's sleep. I wake up from them and then get up for the day. With the state of affairs being as it is, I don't really think stabilization techniques will help me much. I have implemented a plan like you mention and found myself just automatically stabilizing, even though it was not necessary. I don't know how productive this is. I think that as a beginner I will just have to continue to rack up my LD count. As I do this I will naturally get more and more familiar with the LD experience and with this familiarity my calmness (and stability) will naturally increase by increments.

[FryingMan]

I understand completely what you are saying and can relate very well. I am beginning to think that most of the time I become lucid due to changes in brain chemistry that are occurring near the time when I naturally wake. 90% of my LDs have occurred at the end of my night's sleep. I wake up from them and then get up for the day. With the state of affairs being as it is, I don't really think stabilization techniques will help me much. I have implemented a plan like you mention and found myself just automatically stabilizing, even though it was not necessary. I don't know how productive this is. I think that as a beginner I will just have to continue to rack up my LD count. As I do this I will naturally get more and more familiar with the LD experience and with this familiarity my calmness (and stability) will naturally increase by increments. There is a probably a lot of truth in this. Yet take comfort (I know I do…) in knowing that nothing is set in stone. Sageous in particular mentions that when lucid, it may be possible to extend the dream past the time when a non-lucid dream may have ended, even due to end-of-REM. Look at sivason's excellent dream extension abilities, for incorporating external waking-world audio (garbage trucks, traffic noise) into the dream instead of succumbing to a "Wake up! A tiger's in the cave and about to eat you!" lizard-brain reflex. sivason writes that it takes somewhere around 100 LDs before the neural grooves in the brain are well-enough established for lucidity to start occurring earlier and earlier in the sleep cycle. (I'm still waiting!) The amount is probably different for everybody. My personal theory is that it's lucid minutes that matter more than instances of non-lucid to lucid transitions. It's probably a balance of both. (Which is why caveman mode is to deleterious to progress [for those like me where it usually causes waking]: but I have a lot of trouble walking away from dream hotties! I've done it in the past, with sufficient lucidity…I should probably rededicate myself to this…but…hotties!). But I do note that in my best/favorite LDs, for the most part, I was *not* going around compulsively rubbing my hands and spinning in circles the entire time and muttering "gotta stabilize! gotta stabilize!" to myself. Instead, I thoroughly and completely enjoyed the dreaming experience, moving from mini-goal to mini-goal, laughing and joking with the DCs as I did so. After all, we can all have long non-lucids without waking up, so I believe we must be able to do the same while lucid. It takes practice and balance: just enough focus on lucidity, but not too much. We all have to find that balance ourselves.

[Rallan]

sivason writes that it takes somewhere around 100 LDs before the neural grooves in the brain are well-enough established for lucidity to start occurring earlier and earlier in the sleep cycle. Very interesting! Do you think that spending more time in lucid dreams naturally also improves stability? It sounds sensible to assume that the more time spent lucid the more our mind's naturally learn to accept and dwell in that state.

[wintertime]

Nicely summarized guys. As silly and all as this may sound, I find that by counting each breath as I go through my day helps cultivate calmness. I managed to count up to 3000 on day! At first it allowed me to see how 'dirty' my mind was.

[Eonnn]

You raise a very important point there Rallan. I can imagine for a lot of newcomers they would be very frantic treating it like it must be done quickly or else. Personally I've never found stablising techniques to be very effective, there are always a number of factors at play. Such as how long you've been sleeping, if it's a false awakening, how much control you've been asserting, how well developed the dream plot is, how calm/excited you are, etc. Some dreams are just short anyway so there is a certain element of luck/chance at play. Sometimes even with a high LD count and experience you still have short LD's due to any one of these factors.

[FryingMan]

Yes I think it's like any activity: repetition builds and strengthens the neural pathways that participate in that particular activity.

[KonchogTashi]

Yes I think it's like any activity: repetition builds and strengthens the neural pathways that participate in that particular activity. Well said, sir!

[AnotherDreamer]

I've had heaps of lucid dreams and I occasionally struggle a lot still with stability. This usually happens because I do exactly what you described, becoming frantic and even agitated when some things don't work. I've found that my state of mind in dreams is so incredibly important for having long lucid dreams. When I can just relax, not worry about waking up, and maintain a zen like calm throughout my dreams, then they can last for ages. When I panic or get worked up, my dreams end very quickly and stabilization techniques do little to help with that. That being said, I still believe that stabilization techniques can be very useful for forming dreams and for grounding oneself within a dream.

[Rallan]

I've had heaps of lucid dreams and I occasionally struggle a lot still with stability. This usually happens because I do exactly what you described, becoming frantic and even agitated when some things don't work. I've found that my state of mind in dreams is so incredibly important for having long lucid dreams. When I can just relax, not worry about waking up, and maintain a zen like calm throughout my dreams, then they can last for ages. When I panic or get worked up, my dreams end very quickly and stabilization techniques do little to help with that. That being said, I still believe that stabilization techniques can be very useful for forming dreams and for grounding oneself within a dream. That's very encouraging to hear. Thank you! Next time I start blacking out I think I will try stopping what I'm doing and establishing a grounded calmness. It's funny, because from what I've read so far I had the strong impression that whenever the dream begins to fade you should 'come out kicking and screaming' to keep it going. Maybe this is effective in prolonging a dream that is about to naturally end, but it seems that this is bad advice if taken on its own. But of course everyone is different!

[AnotherDreamer]

That's very encouraging to hear. Thank you! Next time I start blacking out I think I will try stopping what I'm doing and establishing a grounded calmness. It's funny, because from what I've read so far I had the strong impression that whenever the dream begins to fade you should 'come out kicking and screaming' to keep it going. Maybe this is effective in prolonging a dream that is about to naturally end, but it seems that this is bad advice if taken on its own. But of course everyone is different! Oh yeah, I definitely agree. That had been my impression for quite a while as well. I think that some techniques, like engaging one's senses with the dream world when it's fading, have worked very well for me in the past when I'm about to wake up, but it's kind of stressful for me to worry about it. I prefer to just DEILD if a dream has ended, that way I don't have to stress about keeping the dream together, I can just wait for another one and not accidentally make things worse by freaking out. I hope it works for you! I really like to practice being calm in dreams while I'm awake, by pretending that I'm in a dream and that I don't have to worry about the dream ever ending, it can be a lot of fun.