• Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views




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    1. #1
      Dreamer italianmonkey's Avatar
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      control without awareness

      from a discussion in "research team" forum

      some say they have control on non-lucid dreams similar to the one they have in LDs. Like knowing it's a dream doesn't come out and remain sort of unconscious. Me too, and don't think it's just for the "habit" because as a child i learnt separately awareness and control.

      control without awareness, awareness without control...

      does it make any sense to someone?
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      If I'm here I'm bored. justme's Avatar
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      .. So you mean like in some of your non-lucid dreams you can do some pretty cool stuff like dream control stuff and still not know your dreaming?
      That happens to me a bit, I find that the easyiest thing to do in lucid dreams is figthing because I sometimes do that in non-lucid dreams too. Maybe doing it in non-lucid dreams is good training when your lucid.

      "There are two types of people in this world, people who think there are two types of people, and people who don't."

    3. #3
      Crazy Cat Lady Burns's Avatar
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      Re: control without awareness

      Originally posted by italianmonkey
      control without awareness, awareness without control...

      does it make any sense to someone?
      Yes - you are exactly right. You may be able to have control in a non-lucid dream, and no control in a lucid dream (and vice versa). Control and lucidity are not interconnected. You can do one without the other.

    4. #4
      Member Asclepius's Avatar
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      dream composing

      I believe there are intermediate steps in lucid dreaming.

      When I was a teenager I did not have lucid dreams. But I did something I called dream composing where I would be in a dream and part of me would decide the next major event in the dream. I wasn't lucid, but I was directing the dream.

      Now I have some types of annoying dream where at a certain point I will make myself end it. But this is not the same as lucid dreaming where I tell myself this is a dream, and I remain conscious within the dream.

      So yes some control without clear awareness is possible.
      "we may accept dream telepathy as a working hypothesis." Stephen LaBerge, page 231 Lucid Dreaming 1985

    5. #5
      Rotaredom Howie's Avatar
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      Originally posted by Asclepius+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Asclepius)</div>
      My thoughts are different. In most of my dreams there is no thinking - there is stream of consciousness, flow of emotions, action and reaction. When I become lucid there is a different level. It involves reflecting on what is happening, rather than flowing with it. Oh this beautiful stranger knows my name - wait! how does she know my name? Imagining is different for me. In reflective thinking there's an attempt to critique the experience to separate out from the flow and reflect on what is happening. Its that element I try to strenghten via MILD.[/b]
      <!--QuoteBegin-memeticverb


      thats very interesting, and ive heard a lot of people say that. but in most of my dreams i do recall having thought processes, meaning i am thinking things to myself, questioning and changing my persepctive on what is happening, all with out being lucid.
      Taken from ---> Consciousness as a scale - Lucid or Incubated?

      I believe in the ladder because my experiences would be explained in exactly that manner.

    6. #6
      Member gameover's Avatar
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      I once learned how to teleport by closing my eyes and thinking myself somewhere new. Never realized I was dreaming so you can imagine my excitement! This isn't really that uncommon at all, I dont think. Its not for me, thats for sure.
      I'm in Chasing Mars, one of Chicago's best [link removed - ask for permision]indie rock bands[/url]! <------CLICK FOR FREE MUSIC

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      Member landsquid's Avatar
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      That is one thing I do alot. I can control myself and decide what happens next and never know its a dream. Like you said gameover, I would learn how to fly or breath under water and wake up realizeing it never really happened. So I guess i have to work on recognizeing dream signs.

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    8. #8
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      I used to be able to do pretty cool stuff in dreams, but now i know what LDs are if anything cool happens i become Lucid and can not do anything

    9. #9
      The Ancient Entity [Alpha]-0mega-'s Avatar
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      So this is mainly ''you are not aware of dreaming'' but you have ''dream-control'' style powers in your dream?

      I used to have that a lot, but since I start LD'ing, I only use them during LD's
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    10. #10
      Rotaredom Howie's Avatar
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      Confidence in lucid dreams

      Originally posted by HyperNova
      I used to be able to do pretty cool stuff in dreams, but now i know what LDs are if anything cool happens i become Lucid and can not do anything
      You may be able to do MORE in your lucid dreams if you begin to realize that you can have control.
      Break the barriers that your mind has on you and is restricting you from doing virtually anything.
      There are no rules to abide by. Just you and your imagination.

    11. #11
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      Awareness, control and lucidity are all multi-plateau'ed measuring sticks.

      Basically, many people have a minimal level of control in their dreams, and the more this is trained, the more control, lucidity and awareness they gain.

      One can have 'dream powers' in non lucid dreams because the ability to achieve these things never varies, just the precision with which the individual mind can use itself to create the effect/power.

      I hope I said something relevant.

    12. #12
      Rotaredom Howie's Avatar
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      Originally posted by TheStorm
      Awareness, control and lucidity are all multi-plateau'ed measuring sticks.
      Basically, many people have a minimal level of control in their dreams, and the more this is trained, the more control, lucidity and awareness they gain.
      One can have 'dream powers' in non lucid dreams because the ability to achieve these things never varies, just the precision with which the individual mind can use itself to create the effect/power.
      I hope I said something relevant.
      There are so many ways to interprerate these perceptions we see and feel. So many variable and so many ways to say it.
      I think what you say has relevance, absolutely.

      A word that has escaped me this entire discussion had finally surfaced.
      During these dreams that are non lucid the action of control is almost one of WILL!
      As if we on an unconscious level will things to happen how we wish. Rendering them in the realm of some control.

    13. #13
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      Hmm, I dont understand. I mean, surely without being lucid, it's no more than a normal dream; you're in control then, after all. :S The only thing I can imagine you mean is when you're so low-lucid that it only barely counts :S
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    14. #14
      Rotaredom Howie's Avatar
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      Originally posted by Wolffe
      Hmm, I dont understand. I mean, surely without being lucid, it's no more than a normal dream; you're in control then, after all. :S The only thing I can imagine you mean is when you're so low-lucid that it only barely counts :S
      This Topic does go into more detail
      Consciousness as a scale - Lucid or Incubated?

    15. #15
      L'enfant terrible Achievements:
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      Ahh I see now, but I don't see it as control without awareness; just as more vivid, memorable dreams. You're always in control whether you're lucid or not! xD
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      Originally posted by Wolffe
      Ahh I see now, but I don't see it as control without awareness; just as more vivid, memorable dreams. You're always in control whether you're lucid or not! xD
      But, you see, that's not entirely true.
      Not all dreams are real-time, controllable events. Many people see themselves in a dream (in a perceptional sense, whether they are 1st or 3rd person) as having absolutely no control over their actions. It's a lot like watching a movie that you happen to be staring in, but your actions and/or dialogue are somewhat predetermined.
      In other dreams, you have full control of your actions as if you are right there at the exact place and time that the events are happening, yet without realization that you're dreaming. In this form of dream, depending on what the situation is, you'll usually have control over yourself within the context of what's going on. If you are having a supernatural/flying dream, you may be able to fly at will, have superstrength or other superpowers and control them incredibly, however your maximum control factor is somewhat capped, because you neither realize that you're dreaming or notice all of the other things you'd have control over, if you did realize it.
      In addition to these, are lucid dreams, which have their own levels of fluctuation, also.
      http://i.imgur.com/Ke7qCcF.jpg
      (Or see the very best of my journal entries @ dreamwalkerchronicles.blogspot)

    17. #17
      L'enfant terrible Achievements:
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      What I mean is, its still your brain generating it, so as far as external forces controlling go, its still just your mind making the stuff happen!
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      "O" will suffice. Achievements:
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      Yeah, but the underlying point is:
      We're not always in control of our minds, are we?

      It takes a conscious effort to be able to influence your subconscious, and that's an effort that's not always put forth. Many dreams reflect this and play out whether you take conscious participation in what's going on, or just let things happen with absolutely no attention whatsoever.
      http://i.imgur.com/Ke7qCcF.jpg
      (Or see the very best of my journal entries @ dreamwalkerchronicles.blogspot)

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      My take on it is this:

      Dreams where one has control, but no awareness are simply circumstantial - that is, the theme or topic of the dream is about controlling your surroundings. Your current reality is that for some reason you can control certain aspects of your environment. You don't really question why, or how...it just has always been that way.

      Instead of thinking that you're in a dream, you are thinking that it is reality, and for some reason you are able to control reality or waking life...if you were aware, you would know that infact you are not controlling waking life, but only images in your mind.

    20. #20
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      control without awareness, awareness without control[/b]
      well control without awareness that's happen to me... most of my dreams .... but it's really awful cause i controll the dream but i don't know it's a dream and when i wake up i'm angry cause you want to do something but you think you're in the reall world so you don't do it

      awareness without control
      well i think that happened to me once.. . and i didn't like it
      cause it didn't have any controll it's useless
      live happy

    21. #21
      Rotaredom Howie's Avatar
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      Originally posted by bzteam
      My take on it is this:

      Dreams where one has control, but no awareness are simply circumstantial - that is, the theme or topic of the dream is about controlling your surroundings. Your current reality is that for some reason you can control certain aspects of your environment. You don't really question why, or how...it just has always been that way.

      Instead of thinking that you're in a dream, you are thinking that it is reality, and for some reason you are able to control reality or waking life...if you were aware, you would know that infact you are not controlling waking life, but only images in your mind.

      That is an interesting look at it.
      In some manner you believe it is real life. So controlling it is supposes and presumed to be already there. This may be one reason we are able to justify some of the acts we perform in our dreams that would otherwise be impossible.

    22. #22
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      I developed control long before awareness.
      ---o--- my DCs say I'm dreamy.

    23. #23
      Rotaredom Howie's Avatar
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      Originally posted by sloth
      I developed control long before awareness.
      How could you be in control and yet not be awar?. Assuming we are taking into consideration the control discussed in this topic.
      There has seemed to be many of discussions about levels of control - consciousness - awareness.
      But what level of control could you administer without the realization of control?

    24. #24
      Haunted by entropy. Achievements:
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      No no..
      I am aware that I can control things, just not that I am dreaming.
      I forget, sometimes, that I can't really fly, or move things with my mind, or... anything.

      Control without Lucidity.
      ---o--- my DCs say I'm dreamy.

    25. #25
      Sleeping Dragon juroara's Avatar
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      control without awareness? thats really odd O_o;;

      sure I've had lots of dreams with control where my awareness was LOW, but I had awareness. When I turn into a dragon, I don't REALLY think I'm a dragon in real life. When I walk through a wall I don't really think I can walk through a wall in real life. I'm aware enough to understand that these 'powers' dont really happen in the waking world.

      normally control is how I know I am dreaming and becomes a key into becoming even more lucid. the dreams where I have NO awareness, I have NO control - those are the worst. And in those dreams I have legs, arms, I need to use the restroom, bathe, eat, do homework. Everything is 'normal', and a lot of times vivid. And since Ive just started practicing reality checks - I really HATE those dreams.

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