Dream Control: the complete tutorial

**jimmie** · 10-30-2008 04:51 PM

Hey guys,
It seems like the problem with direct control is exactly the rule system you described earlier, Billybob. You feel that directly controlling your dream will destabilize it or make it less real, so it does.
I find that if I just give my direction, then let my dream respond with it in it's own way, the dream stays vivid, and whatever I want to happen, happens. If I really focus on any task, though, it fails, because the 'really focusing' takes over the completion of the task. 'Really focusing' would end if what I wanted to happen occured, and my dream is trying to do both, let/make me really focus, AND accomplish my goal.
So my dream gives me a partial completion, and the two ideas fight for control. Soon I'm just thinking about how I have to focus to get something done, and the implied failure of not focusing, and I fail. I also wake up, because one failure leads to everything that can fail, including staying lucid and asleep.
We make up our own rules and our own limitations. So how can we get everything we want without failure cascading into a destroyed dream?
We need to get rid of the idea of failure. There is only success. Sometimes immediate, sometimes not immediate, but always success. You don't have to TRY HARD, because you won't ever fail. There is no failure.
What does it mean if what we want to happen doesn't happen? Then you still believed you could fail, and so you did fail.
I know, it sounds like an impossible task. How does a person get rid of the idea of failure, and the power it holds over them?
Associate the term failure with your successes. Every time you succeed, think "Woo hoo! I failed! Totally awesome!" Then the word starts getting associated with success, and when you start thinking about failing, you immediately go "Woo hoo, I failed! Totally awesome!" and that feeling of success you've been associating with the word failure kicks in, and you succeed! Yay us!
This is just mind control. If I tell you "don't think about a monkey", I'm still telling you about a monkey, so for an instant, you DO think about a monkey. Do that in a dream, and a monkey will probably appear. What's really nice is that you are fighting yourself here, trying to not think, and you step out of your own way, and create a monkey. You've been given the easy word, monkey, and the difficult task, don't think about one (and the other easy task of think).
If you say "don't think about so-n-so", and try hard to not think about them, in your dream, they will appear. If you just ignore your own statement, you can disassociate the words with any literal interpretation, and nothing will happen.
If you can disassociate the possibilities of failure with any result of failure, it will lose it's power. If you can associate the feelings of failure and possible failure with complete success, such that thinking of failure only reminds you of success, you can remove failure's power.
-Jim

**Yume.no.ato** · 11-26-2008 09:21 PM

I understand these concepts and it explains why whenever I try to fly in a dream, the more messed up my surroundings become.
But, lets say within my dream I'm not creative enough to think up a pill.
Plus, isn't thinking up a pill almost like forced control?

I'm afraid my problem when I try this will be differentiating between the two.
I'll be thinking so hard of a reason to make myself fly without trying to fly, I'll remind myself again that its just a dream thats putty in my hands, which is what we're trying to forget in the first place. But thinking about NOT using forced control will remind me of forced control anyway... Is this a lose lose situation for some people? ;___;

Is there any way to simply fly when you want within a dream passively, yet not think up a scenario? Cause I just like to... up & go, whenever. The dream doesn't always get less vivid, though sometimes it does, and I'm afraid that if I keep doing this then like you said, my dreams will get shorter and fuzzier.

**Steve.j.b** · 11-26-2008 10:15 PM

great thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

cant wait to try it out 2nite... I do agree with the most of you, passive control has got to way better and more healthy....

thegnome54
thinking you have superpowers is what I have done before... i think its very justifiable!

**superbat121** · 12-24-2008 07:13 AM

thats true about passive and control cuz when u try control it feels like your just imagining it and doesnt feel real

**CountessRebecca** · 12-27-2008 04:18 PM

Ahh, things make so much more sense now! I believe I must be quite an ignorant lucid dreamer; I've never thought that there might be such a concept as Passive Control. What I tend to do is sort of 'conjure' things up and they always come, but in a really hazy way, all flickery and that. I am very thankful for this information!

**Sabre2552** · 01-05-2009 08:42 AM

Ah, I'm glad I read this topic.

Things seem to become less vivid in my dreams when I try to manipulate it. I think this will really help what I'm experiencing, and hopefully I'll be able to better utilize the lucid dreams I have.

**Sabre2552** · 01-11-2009 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by Sabre2552

Ah, I'm glad I read this topic.

Things seem to become less vivid in my dreams when I try to manipulate it. I think this will really help what I'm experiencing, and hopefully I'll be able to better utilize the lucid dreams I have.

Well, your method worked like a charm in my lucid dream last night. I normally have trouble going to an entirely different dreamscape. However, in the spirit of passive control, I went up to a window next to a door, and remarked "What's with this paper here?" and when I grabbed the edge of the window, I was able to tear away the image as if it were paper, and reveal the dreamscape I wanted to go to. Then, I opened the door, and it opened to where I wanted to be.

I lost no lucidity in doing this, which is great! I'm so glad I learned of this technique, as now I am able to manipulate dreams as much as I want without losing lucidity or vividness, which is an excellent thing.

**Conquer** · 02-17-2009 11:14 PM

Nice thread! I have the problem of using forced-control, my lucids have gotten ridiculously shorter. I need to work on passive control for sure. Thanks for sharing this.

**Dream_King** · 02-19-2009 02:51 AM

Great thread. But if you think of the dream world as not only a seperate plane, but a plane where the world can be controlled with your mind you have the best of forced and passive control.

**AngelZlayer** · 03-08-2009 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by Mini Man56

Now for my question. If I obtain superpowers or whatever, can I retain them? As in, will I be able to use them in the next dream w/o obtaining them again? Will they stay with me?

I think that if you realize that you had superpowers in your previous lucid dream, and that you are still you, you should still have your superpowers as well [when you realize this], because your sub-conciouss now thinks that those superpowers are a part of you

Now I have a question: if I think to myself "Wow! God just gave me his powers!", will I be able to do seemingly force control without making my dreams shorter and/or less vivid?
Will anything I do (everything from making an item appear to opening a hole in spacetime and travel through it) count as passive control as long as I do it with my "God-given powers"?

**Mixedpotatoes** · 03-10-2009 05:59 PM

The question above did i wonder about too.

**Cowmaster94** · 03-11-2009 01:45 AM

Originally Posted by BillyBob

How do I make a building disappear?

look away, look back.
WHOA! God just decided that he didn't like that building's roof.

ROFLMAO LOL HAHAHAHAHHAHA

**Asem** · 03-16-2009 08:56 PM

great thread! i never concidered passive control.

so anything that has an explaination can happen?
if i wanted to summon something, could i use a transmutation circle
to trick my mind into thinking summoning was logical?

how logical does it need to be?

**The Cusp** · 03-17-2009 02:59 AM

Originally Posted by Asem

so anything that has an explaination can happen?
if i wanted to summon something, could i use a transmutation circle
to trick my mind into thinking summoning was logical?

how logical does it need to be?

Not anything that has an explanation, anything that has an established system. And it needn't be logical at all, you just need to be familiar with it.

A transmutation circle will work fine. But it will work better for someone who studies and practices those circles than for someone who's just heard them mentioned in passing. The more familiar you are with that particular system, the more reliable it will be.

A deeply religious person will better be able to use divine intervention in dreams than someone who doesn't believe in God.

**shroom** · 03-17-2009 04:59 AM

Most of the time if i just want something to happen it will. I dont even have to think about it, just to know that i want to fly results in flight. I dont know how this works tho.

**Apopholis** · 03-18-2009 05:02 PM

Somebody might already have said this, but what if you passively convinced yourself that you were God?
To scale it down a bit, imagine this.
You "remembered" that you had been taking lessons from a powerful magician, etc. and as such you were able to use abilities akin to forced control, but without the negative effects, do you think this would work?

**Quick Silver** · 04-28-2009 02:08 AM

So you have to give the brain a reason why it happened or just focus your attention off of it? Is that correct? because if so then I could not only get out of a bad dream but end up head first in a disired place just by giving a reason why it happened so quick and how? Say I'm running from Godzilla, but I'm going no where, could I think about a hospital and end up right in that hospital by telling myself I'm going to knock out and Spider-Man will save me because this is New York. would that work?

**Quick Silver** · 05-25-2009 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by The Cusp

Not anything that has an explanation, anything that has an established system. And it needn't be logical at all, you just need to be familiar with it.

A transmutation circle will work fine. But it will work better for someone who studies and practices those circles than for someone who's just heard them mentioned in passing. The more familiar you are with that particular system, the more reliable it will be.

A deeply religious person will better be able to use divine intervention in dreams than someone who doesn't believe in God.

If you're talking about bringing back a life in a dream, then forget it. But if you're talking about weapons, well... I'd hate to sound like a geek, but if I could, I'd use the laws of FMA if I had any paper and metalics around. Because I'd use the FMA weapon summonig to make a card captor staff out of the metallics, then I'd turn the paper into pokemon cards, and then use the staff to summon out some of my old freinds from my Pokemon yellow, Blue, Silver, and sapphire games. Unleashing utter, complete, HELL!!

Ahhh, good times.

... I have to become lucid sooner or later! I gotta try this!

**jimmie** · 05-25-2009 09:44 PM

Well, if you could convince yourself well enough that God granted you powers, you wouldn't be able to do ANYTHING, per say, but only those things you really think God does and can do regularly. The more unlikely you think God would use a power, the more unlikely you will be able to use it. So make your source applicable to your goal.
And the more familiar you are with any mechanism, the more connections you have in your mind about it, so the more resources the unconscious can draw from for your request. I don't believe you can only dream about things you know, just that things you know can be dreamt more clearly.
-Jim

**Quick Silver** · 05-26-2009 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by jimmie

Well, if you could convince yourself well enough that God granted you powers, you wouldn't be able to do ANYTHING, per say, but only those things you really think God does and can do regularly. The more unlikely you think God would use a power, the more unlikely you will be able to use it. So make your source applicable to your goal.
And the more familiar you are with any mechanism, the more connections you have in your mind about it, so the more resources the unconscious can draw from for your request. I don't believe you can only dream about things you know, just that things you know can be dreamt more clearly.
-Jim

Well, I'm not here for a good time, or smite all of my enemies and be done with it. I'm here to understand them, stop some, as well as keep certain ones from killing people.

And I know, as a human, my limits under God. I'm Christian. So if dreams work off of how much detail my brain can support, and how logical it is, then I'm set because my brain was already doing psychic and what not. I just can't do it when I want because I'm not in control of myself, I just know how to do it, and what it feels like, otherwise I wouldn't be here... No offense intended. I really need someone who can dream share soon if I can't get this already.

**WarBenifit156** · 07-11-2010 08:52 PM

Man your awesme. I haven't had a lucid dream yet, but I'm very confident that I will soon. It's been 3 or 4 days, but the first thing I'm going to try is
to say "darn, I hope I don't wake up." So I can explore my dream, I'm not going to try to control anything yet. I'm going to simply see what my mind
makes up. And maybe talk to some dream characters, but my only fear is if I go lucid and waking up. I know it's completely normal for beginners to
wake up, but at least I'll get a taste of what it feels like to be in a virtual world. I have one question, do you think that if you say "I will not wake up"
will work any better? and do you think that if I say "I will not wake up" when I'm exited will not wake me up? Thanks for the help.

**mikeac** · 09-07-2010 12:24 AM

If you say you won't wake up, you most likely will think about your normal body and wake up unintentionally.

So basically, forced control is saying that something WILL happen, an effect without cause. Passive control is a cause and effect. It's easier for me to understand it that way.

**jimbo227** · 09-07-2010 02:19 PM

i have a couple of questions about passive control, last night i had a lucid dream and my dream started to fade, i then used verbal comands such as more clarity now and increase lucidity, these worked and my dream was extremley vivid

but surley using verbal commands to stay in the dream is forced dream control? but if using verbal commands works for me then i should continue to do this?

another question is last night in my lucid dream i was in an empty room with 2 dogs, they were annoying me and i wanted them to leave the room, i was trying to force then out the room somehow but it didnt work

by using passive control what should i have done differently to make the dogs leave the room?

thanks.

**mikeac** · 09-07-2010 03:33 PM

passive control would be picking up a bone next to you and throwing it out the windows.

Using verbal commands are ok, but it is forced control. Passive control is thinking of a reason for something to happen.

**shiraniaori** · 09-08-2010 06:33 AM

I find quite the opposite. Forced control helps keep my dreams stable. Also, I purposefully dont think of my normal body, except fleeting thoughts, and its not hard to ignore your physical body when you have a world of imagination right in front of you.

Passive control just seems to be more natural for people, and therefore I think causes a stigma on forced control, which is totally unnecessary. Besides, as someone stated before, is it still passive control just to say "The reason I can do this is because its a dream." Maybe people tend to wake up because they equate dreams with sleep, and so it brings attention to their physical bodies? Who knows, I sure don't, I tend to think of dreaming as a world of it's own.