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    25. You may not vote on this poll
    • Yeah, gaming was so much better back then

      9 36.00%
    • This subculture still exists...

      0 0%
    • Yeah, but I like the direction that gaming is going

      5 20.00%
    • You are exadgerating. A LOT

      2 8.00%
    • WTF are you talking about? This NEVER happened

      9 36.00%
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    Thread: Gaming Subculture: where has it gone?

    1. #1
      Member sheogorath's Avatar
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      Gaming Subculture: where has it gone?

      It has been quite some time since I have posted on these forums, but I thought that this would be best best audience for this post.

      Just the other day, I was hit in the face of the apparent dissolving of the gaming subculture.

      First, I should probably explain what I mean by this subculture. I am primarily writing about the group of people around the 2000s. Mostly it shared the following characteristics.

      -near goth style cloths. Mostly a color palate of Black, gray, and blue. A good amount of piercings. extremely white skin. Black hair. Girls possibly had some highlights or something but not dyed to some insane color. Guys normally were not muscular at all.

      -They acted different from Emo, scene, or Goth people. It was not about attention and there were not the exaggerations (not to insult anyone belonging to these subcultures, but a lot of people dress like this because it draws attention). Gaming was looked down upon and not a common thing.

      -Played what I would consider "real games", ones that were more in depth or with a darker tone. Games like Morrowind, Starcraft, Warcraft(1,2,and 3) Vanilla WOW and TBC, Everquest I and II, Warhammer games, Zelda (Majoras Mask and previous), Soul caliber, Star wars Battle front, and Half life.

      - These were the kind of people you would see working at gamestop or Rhino in my town before they were bought out.

      With the sudden infulx of gamers in the past few years, my whole childhood of gaming is now discontinued. Instead of content, developers increasing focus on and promote their new graphics which people never realize do not matter because when you are playing the game, you don't even pay that much attention to them. With this sudden explosion of popularity, it seems that it is more the focus of making a game that sells then one that is fun.

      Games have become more and more of a sport and less of an experience. It is no longer about enjoying the game but being better than everyone else.

      I used to wish that more people were gamers so that I would more in common with everyone but the masses did not adapt to gaming, gaming adapted to the masses. The games became clones of each other just like their new audience. Maybe there are some fun games, but they are not fun for long because they had to be simplified for people that did not care to figure them out.

      I feel like I am a generation late. Some of my major personality influences were people who I became familiar with at Rhino when I would go every week and buy a 2 dollar game for the 64 or Dreamcast.

      Does anyone agree with me, or am I insane and none of this happened. Is my mind just exaggerating these changes?

    2. #2
      Miss Sixy <span class='glow_FFFFFF'>Maria92</span>'s Avatar
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      Gaming came out of the closet. It became something more than just a past time for nerds and geeks. As such, gaming companies began to target wider audiences. So yeah, the market has changed, and so has the gamer base, but look on the bright side. More open, accessible, culturally-accepted gaming means more chicks. That's always a plus. Anyone can still become a hardcore gamer, but unless you seek them out, I suppose they get lost in the crowd...

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      waaaaah, people want to make money, I wish they wouldn't make money off things I like

      it was always better in the old days

      just find some other place that still hangs onto old games. don't whine about it.

    4. #4
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      I wasn't aware of a subculture. I was always alone, gamed alone, borrowed games and cherished the time I spent with them (the games that is )
      I wasn't even aware of many of the great games. They passed me by until 2003 or so.
      I played a lot of computer games for the longest time. In the 90's (?) it was the Commodore 64C. I played Wizard, the Summer and Winter Olympics, ZORK and others I've forgotten. Ah, Pitfall!
      Then it was nintendo and Chrono Cross.
      Then I got a desktop and fell in love with Pharaoh...
      Then Dreamcast and Sonic (with the portable Choas in the memory card )
      Then XBox and Oblivion, Half Life #? with the Orange Box (wish I could play the earlier ones) and now FallOut.

      Those games, to me, have depth. We play Fallout New Vegas and my oldest son found a glitch to exploit. You can become level 30 with no effort at all. He doesn't like the challenge of the game.
      Gamers, now-a-days, it seems to me are more about instant gratification. They want in your face constant action.
      I want a story line.

      Oh yeah. And I LOVE Everquest 2. I still have toons and an awesome guild, I just can't afford to play. I love World of Warcraft too, but my internet provider always cuts us off when we play... plus, it seems to appeal to a younger crowd.

      Ahhh, the good old days

      **EDIT**
      I googled commodore 64 games and came across an interesting site http://www.classic-pc-games.com/ And I found the Wizard game. It's called "Ultimate Wizard". Unfortunately, the site's down or something because it wont process my credit card. (I, in turn, googled the site to make sure it was legit before giving them my numbers lol. It's a free site (?) but they still want your card number in case you want to upgrade or something).
      Last edited by Zhaylin; 12-02-2010 at 01:24 AM.

    5. #5
      Xei
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      I agree that the focus on technology is completely wrong. Focus should be entirely on the content of the game. A different minimum level of technology is required for different games, but it should never be the actual focus.

      Gaming has opened out to the masses and hence there are a lot more pointless, unoriginal, superficial games out there.

      However there are still a good number of great, original games being made, and people appreciate and buy them. Though, at least half of these games are made by Valve.

    6. #6
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      Gaming is too focused on multi-platform releases, multiplayer and instant gratification (rather than depth). PC games are always released unfinished and a lot of my favourite genres are all but dead.

      /rant

    7. #7
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      I am sorry but I had to go with the WTF choice, and here is why.

      1. I don't remember gamers every being goth like. I don't remember a single gamer who had piercings. Classic gamers were like nerds and nerds weren't remotely goth like. I have to say, I don't know where you lived but I just don't see it.

      2. I have been a gamer all my life, and games were never looked down on. If you played a lot of games people might say you were nerdy, but everyone played games.

      3. This links back to the last point, that everyone played games. Fighting and shooter games have been mainstream for 15 years. The nerdy kids would play rpg type games, but even non gamers played fighting games. I remember a lot of friends who weren't into games all that much, still enjoyed fighting games.

      4. Graphics has always been highly advertised. Every game for the last 20 years has been bragging and promoting their graphics, and games are judged by them. Some games are so good they get by with weaker graphics and some games are so bad that they suck even with great graphics but people always talked about how pretty a game looked.

      5. Money has and always will be king. Games are made to make money. The bigger audience they appeal to the more money they make. This has always been the case.

      6. Games are actually getting far better, and the multi player aspect of them are far better as they become more common. Today there are games where you can play with your entire family, or with groups of buddies, or online, or by yourself. Once upon the time you didn't have those options. It was usually by yourself, with the occasional rare game that had great multiple player capacities.

      So I have to say, I think you are dead wrong.

    8. #8
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      It is true that gaming has changed. In many cases it's for the worse. DICE is a good example of a company that went from making really good games (BF1942 and BF2) to making worse games that targetted a wider audience. However, they showed with Mirror's Edge that they are still perfectly capable of producing brilliant games. They just choose not to.

      Valve and Blizzard are some of the only companies that still stick to the good old stuff. Sure, the direction WoW is taking is not the best, but StarCraft II is a brilliant game with many elements from the old game. Hopefully Blizzard will put out Warcraft IV at some point soon.

      I don't think it's a problem that games are about being the best. I've always been a fan of the competitive side of games. I played in a clan in CS 1.5, I played in a clan in BF2, I played in a clan in CoD4, I played in a very very good guild in WoW and now I play very competitively in SC2 and I'm very good. I've also played the Unreal Tournament series extensively and always focused on getting better and better. I don't think multiplayer focused games are a problem really and I definitely don't think it's a problem that people can get very competitive and even make a sport out of it. I absolutely love that StarCraft has become a sport in Korea and that it's slowly, but surely becoming a sport in the rest of the world as well.

      From my point of view, the biggest problem is that the gaming market moved back to the consoles, probably because of the big influx of gamers who just want it easy and simple. Back in the nineties and early 2000s, people were okay with assembling their own computer and working all that stuff out. This movement has resulted in games being restricted to the constraints of the consoles, like the control scheme. Playing an RTS or an FPS on a console simply isn't optimal. Additionally, there are technical restrictions. In Battle Field you'll have games with 64 players no problem, but that just can't happen on consoles.

      About the whole subculture thing you were talking about, I think that's just what you saw in your area. Gaming as a whole back then was really just slightly nerdy normal guys wearing normal clothes. No crazy styles or anything.

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    9. #9
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      Your discription of gamers seems way off to me. I don't remember gamers being goth like and it was not uncomon. Most people I knew had a game system. Gaming was and still sort of is considered nerdy but no one was looked down apon for playing them except for people who no-lifing rpgs and stuff. Games are becoming better and more accessable. Ive never liked it when games focused to much on graphics but people have always cared to much on graphics. I don't think there is a problem with more people buying games. It just means more games and more variety. There are still plenty of good hardcore games (unless you own a wii )

    10. #10
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      I haven't been a gamer for quite a while now so I can't speak to the current state of affairs, but speaking as an ex-hardcore-gamer, I have to agree with Alric that your description of "gaming subculture" left me thinking "WTF?"

    11. #11
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      I think the only thing gamers have in common to goths is that neither gets enough sunlight!

      Gaming became sport when games became online social networks. I could just be really biased, but I always found it to be a guy thing to size up each others scores.

    12. #12
      Member sheogorath's Avatar
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      Upon Further introspection and research, I think everyone is right that the gaming subculture I am talking about probably didn't happen everywhere. Perhaps it is just that nearly every gamer I knew dressed goth.

    13. #13
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      For me gaming also lies a few years back now, so I can't say much about the over all evolution. But I must say, Alric pretty much covers all my thoughts on the initial argument.

      And juroara, you do sound really bias here. I used to play multiplayer online in these "networks". Neither did I or any of my friends ever not get enough sun light, nor did it turn into some blood sport or pissing contest. For a few it became somewhat important in for example star craft for a little while, but I mean.. they were regularly invited to play on gaming expos. And they also in no way fit any of these stereotypes, they were outgoing and engrained in the social life on every level, just like everybody else. Of course there were those individuals that really never did get away from their computer and just took it too far, but it's a cliché that in no way can be applied to the majority.

    14. #14
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      Gaming has definatly changed alot since 2000's. And the minor culture is all but gone. The general gaming culture was use a few nerd words like "noob", never get chicks and aviod sunlight and/or physical exercise. Now everyone (nearly) plays games, and it is socially acceptable to do so.

      i'm a stragist gamer, and play games like the total war series, age of empires. I also play the odd occasional shoot them up. I realy don't like the way that most games seem to focus very intently on mulitplayer and forget about the campain. I got at least 2000+ hours of gameplay time playing age of mythology, i didn't go online once, however the new age of empires game expected to come out looks like total crap. It is 100% online, not one bit off. It looks like an animated version of travian
      The COD campain was WAY to short, it could have been alot longer, graphics were excellant, but i didn't find the multiplayer that interesting.
      In the grand theft auto series the game 'San An Dreaese (or however you spell it)' was the best game of that year in my opion, the sheer size and immensity of game was amazing-and not a single bit of online was included. However then new grand theft auto requires you to sign up to like 3 different websites just to play the game, i never did, i just gave up on it.

      I just hate the way every game (ok about 50%) are based on online and totally forget about the campaign/non-online aspects of the game. It is hard to find any good games at the moment
      They say dreaming is dead, no one does it anymore.
      It's not dead it's just that it's been forgotten, removed from our language.
      Nobody teaches it so nobody knows it exists.
      The dreamer is banished to obscurity.
      Well, I'm trying to change all that, and I hope you are too.
      By dreaming, every day.

    15. #15
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      Not gonna contribute much to this thread, just gonna drop in: don't have superstitions of competitive players. You have no idea what it's like before you try it. The amount of MLG hate that goes on around the Halo community, thinking that competitive is all about showing off your e-peen, is just making my blood boil. Don't base your perception of competitive gaming on some immature teens looking for an identity.

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      I enjoy multiple player games, and you definitely get more play out of a game when you can play online. There are few games worth playing through more than once. Though that said, a good game should have both.

    17. #17
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      Man, I really hate multiplayer games. I hate the ones that force you into multiplayer even more. In Halo, for example, there is no computer-controlled multiplayer. Either you have to go online, or you have to have an XBox with a second controller and a friend in the room. I find both options quite unappealing. The only way I was able to play Halo against a computer was by modding the map myself. Games with formats like this need to die. Give us opponent AI!

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      Quote Originally Posted by Mario92 View Post
      Man, I really hate multiplayer games. I hate the ones that force you into multiplayer even more. In Halo, for example, there is no computer-controlled multiplayer. Either you have to go online, or you have to have an XBox with a second controller and a friend in the room. I find both options quite unappealing. The only way I was able to play Halo against a computer was by modding the map myself. Games with formats like this need to die. Give us opponent AI!
      Why don't you want to play against other people?

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    19. #19
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      Quote Originally Posted by Marvo View Post
      Why don't you want to play against other people?
      I have reasons...including the harassing, irritating pre-teen ego-strokers. There's also the problem of finding evenly matched opponents. In PC Halo, there aren't a lot of people left, and the ones that are there are kinda weak. The few that aren't take great joy in pwning everyone else. Setting up a connection in the first place can be a huge hassle, as my University connection doesn't seem to support online play in any of my games. This is particularly troublesome for games that rely primarily on multiplayer mode, or worse yet, require it. Thanks, but no thanks. I'll take a good campaign mode or computer AI any day. >.>

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    20. #20
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mario92 View Post
      I have reasons...including the harassing, irritating pre-teen ego-strokers. There's also the problem of finding evenly matched opponents. In PC Halo, there aren't a lot of people left, and the ones that are there are kinda weak. The few that aren't take great joy in pwning everyone else. Setting up a connection in the first place can be a huge hassle, as my University connection doesn't seem to support online play in any of my games. This is particularly troublesome for games that rely primarily on multiplayer mode, or worse yet, require it. Thanks, but no thanks. I'll take a good campaign mode or computer AI any day. >.>
      amen. Although i don't like multiplayer because i constantly get annyoyed by family to do this or that, and then i can't pause it
      They say dreaming is dead, no one does it anymore.
      It's not dead it's just that it's been forgotten, removed from our language.
      Nobody teaches it so nobody knows it exists.
      The dreamer is banished to obscurity.
      Well, I'm trying to change all that, and I hope you are too.
      By dreaming, every day.

    21. #21
      Xei
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      The only thing I play online is gary's mod, just because it is the most wonderful form of lol-inducing stress relief.

    22. #22
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      I withdrew myself from the gamer crowd long ago. I still play games, but mostly in concentrated bursts. I'll go weeks without playing anything, then find something cool and spend several days playing it before I quit. I've been trying to squish even that habit and switch to a once or twice a week 3-hour sessions.

      If you ask me, gaming culture is a hollow and insipid thing. It repeats itself over and over. Gamers get all excited about that new thing that's going to come out, but before we know it the game is out, gets old after a month or so and then gamers are getting all hyped up for the next new thing. They're like a bunch of heroin addicts chasing their next fix. Have you ever been around hardcore gamers when they talk about games? Heck, have you listened to somewhat casual gamers talk about games? It's the same damn conversation.

      Another reason I've grown to disdain video games is because it's not a special or interesting way to spend your time. Not only that, but you don't get anything out of it. You can spend your life playing WoW, but you won't have jack squat to show for it.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Black_Eagle View Post
      If you ask me, gaming culture is a hollow and insipid thing. It repeats itself over and over. Gamers get all excited about that new thing that's going to come out, but before we know it the game is out, gets old after a month or so and then gamers are getting all hyped up for the next new thing. They're like a bunch of heroin addicts chasing their next fix. Have you ever been around hardcore gamers when they talk about games? Heck, have you listened to somewhat casual gamers talk about games? It's the same damn conversation.
      I'm a hardcore gamer and I stick to games. I think in the last 5 years, I've only played about 4 games at very high levels, BF2, CoD4, WoW and SC2. Sure, I've played other games, but not with the same amount of dedication. Apart from small $10 indie games, I can't think of a single game I've bought in a long time, that has lasted me less than a month, apart from MW2, which is a purchase I regret now.

      Another reason I've grown to disdain video games is because it's not a special or interesting way to spend your time. Not only that, but you don't get anything out of it. You can spend your life playing WoW, but you won't have jack squat to show for it.
      The same could be said about nearly all entertainment, could it not? Unless you play video games at a professional level, they are just a sort of entertainment. Right now I play SC2 pretty intensely, I try to join tournaments where I can win prizes and I'm also currently running a practice team of 10-14 people. Maybe it's not super productive, but I definitely think I have more to show than your average Call of Duty player.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Marvo View Post
      DICE is a good example of a company that went from making really good games (BF1942 and BF2) to making worse games that targetted a wider audience. However, they showed with Mirror's Edge that they are still perfectly capable of producing brilliant games. They just choose not to.
      I think DICE is only allowed to make quality games when EA doesn't put any pressure on them to release many games. However, EA has a production cycle of a year for most games so quality is not preferred as gaming wasn't noted as a muilti-million industry until the early 2000s when it became a craze.

      Quote Originally Posted by Marvo View Post
      Valve and Blizzard are some of the only companies that still stick to the good old stuff. Sure, the direction WoW is taking is not the best, but StarCraft II is a brilliant game with many elements from the old game. Hopefully Blizzard will put out Warcraft IV at some point soon.
      Valve is actually one of those companies who knows that time = qaulity. They waste years on one game because they want everything to be right. I'm just wanting to finish the Half Life 2 storyline and so want the next episode to be out. But, I have to be patient.

      Quote Originally Posted by Marvo View Post
      From my point of view, the biggest problem is that the gaming market moved back to the consoles, probably because of the big influx of gamers who just want it easy and simple. Back in the nineties and early 2000s, people were okay with assembling their own computer and working all that stuff out. This movement has resulted in games being restricted to the constraints of the consoles, like the control scheme. Playing an RTS or an FPS on a console simply isn't optimal. Additionally, there are technical restrictions. In Battle Field you'll have games with 64 players no problem, but that just can't happen on consoles.
      I think of consoles as portable computers(Notice, how it is acronymed exactly like PC). They are updated though with the best quality graphics card for console gaming but you get more for your buck if you invest in an actual personal computer as you get endless options, more player friendly games, and mods. It's fun for everyone. I just don't think people want to spend nearly $800 to afford something that can play todays games.

    25. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by sheogorath View Post
      Upon Further introspection and research, I think everyone is right that the gaming subculture I am talking about probably didn't happen everywhere. Perhaps it is just that nearly every gamer I knew dressed goth.
      Yeah, I think you were just emo without realizing it

      The people I was PC gaming with around 2000 were straight-up nerds, and the people I played consoles with were stoners, and none of the above were wearing all black unless there was a funeral.
      If you have a sense of caring for others, you will manifest a kind of inner strength in spite of your own difficulties and problems. With this strength, your own problems will seem less significant and bothersome to you. By going beyond your own problems and taking care of others, you gain inner strength, self-confidence, courage, and a greater sense of calm.Dalai Lama



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