Thread: Why is it that we have more bitter feelings than happy feelings?

The twelve pathways sounds too idealistic. Wouldn't one feel out of place if their life is only taken up by happiness? There is no sadness or negative emotions to contradict the happiness to bring out the importance and value of happiness. If it is used to trigger a calm feeling regardless of the situations we face, that would be a different story. But if you're really hurt, and you're backstabbed by the same person you forgive over and over again because the twelve pathways states that we can trigger the type of emotion we want for every event that happened to us. That don't make sense, does it? At the least we should know how to protect ourselves instead of blindly loving and accepting everyone.

Originally Posted by Carrot

The twelve pathways sounds too idealistic. Wouldn't one feel out of place if their life is only taken up by happiness? There is no sadness or negative emotions to contradict the happiness to bring out the importance and value of happiness. If it is used to trigger a calm feeling regardless of the situations we face, that would be a different story. But if you're really hurt, and you're backstabbed by the same person you forgive over and over again because the twelve pathways states that we can trigger the type of emotion we want for every event that happened to us. That don't make sense, does it? At the least we should know how to protect ourselves instead of blindly loving and accepting everyone.

Nothing stops you from protecting yourself when you love and accept other people. I don't blame or hate the sky when it rains, I simply grab an umbrella.

Also this idea that we need pain in order to enjoy happiness is an illusory, addiction-based mindset. It is true that repeating something pleasurable over and over again depreciates its return, but in this situation you are chasing a good feeling, primarily out of avoidance of living in pain. When you have dealt with the conditioning that causes pain, you no longer need to seek out pleasure because the present moment is no longer painful, or boring as we like to call it.

Pain still exists but free of expectations it cannot wound as deeply as it could otherwise. It's also not sustained because you have learned to stop scolding yourself (or others) over and over again after the fact. If you've learned your lesson, you can move on.

If you believe what Buddhists believe, we have already been thrust into suffering. We are so far away from equalization that the amount of peace and happiness we can tap into, compared to our typical state, is extraordinary. Thinking you need to experience good and bad, from the state of your mind right now, is like a worm caught in shit and thinking it needs to experience soft and chunky shit. The truth is it can crawl out completely.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

Nothing stops you from protecting yourself when you love and accept other people. I don't blame or hate the sky when it rains, I simply grab an umbrella.

Also this idea that we need pain in order to enjoy happiness is an illusory, addiction-based mindset. It is true that repeating something pleasurable over and over again depreciates its return, but in this situation you are chasing a good feeling, primarily out of avoidance of living in pain. When you have dealt with the conditioning that causes pain, you no longer need to seek out pleasure because the present moment is no longer painful, or boring as we like to call it.

Pain still exists but free of expectations it cannot wound as deeply as it could otherwise. It's also not sustained because you have learned to stop scolding yourself (or others) over and over again after the fact. If you've learned your lesson, you can move on.

If you believe what Buddhists believe, we have already been thrust into suffering. We are so far away from equalization that the amount of peace and happiness we can tap into, compared to our typical state, is extraordinary. Thinking you need to experience good and bad, from the state of your mind right now, is like a worm caught in shit and thinking it needs to experience soft and chunky shit. The truth is it can crawl out completely.

So have you achieved that or you're stuck like the worm?

Originally Posted by Carrot

The twelve pathways sounds too idealistic. Wouldn't one feel out of place if their life is only taken up by happiness?

Absolutely not, our true inner nature as spiritual beings is a state of pure bliss, a state of perfection. It is exceedingly hard for a human being to meticulously perform the intense inner work required to experience this state as a moment to moment experience and thus can seem to be idealistic to some people. However, I have subjectively confirmed for myself through meditation, and also objectively, by studying the lives of the great saints and holy men/women of mainly the Eastern religions that it is the case that it isn't idealistic but instead a goal that can be reached by those willing to work towards it.

Originally Posted by Carrot

There is no sadness or negative emotions to contradict the happiness to bring out the importance and value of happiness.

I once had an expansion of consciousness that was so utterly profound it changed my view of what you have said above. In fact my sister holds the same opinion as yourself. I experienced a level of bliss that I thought would be impossible to experience. It lasted for only a few seconds as my body and mind were so overwhelmed by the sheer force of the power of this state of consciousness. I do remember the most predominant thought in my mind afterwards was was that I wished that I could remain in that state continuosusly for the rest of my life. It was pure seductiveness. I had experienced my true inner nature as an immortal spiritual being. It is hard for me to convey how feeling that extremely happy was. In fact it wasn't happiness in the terms of how we usually perceive happiness, it was pure bliss. I wish I could kiss my negative emotions good bye for eterntity but I don't have the time in terms of decades or the discipline to do the internal mental work achieve this state of bliss on a continual basis.

Originally Posted by Carrot

If it is used to trigger a calm feeling regardless of the situations we face, that would be a different story. But if you're really hurt, and you're backstabbed by the same person you forgive over and over again because the twelve pathways states that we can trigger the type of emotion we want for every event that happened to us. That don't make sense, does it? At the least we should know how to protect ourselves instead of blindly loving and accepting everyone.

When one does operate from a high level of consciousness we realise that we can't be hurt anymore by people and situations in life. We understand that we don't need to protect ourselves and fight back using our animalistic fight or flight defence mechanisms. We don't blindly love and accept the here and now, instead we are able to operate and function in the most optimum fashion. This process of consciousness growth and the resulting experience of raised consciousness is hard to explain. I have used the 12 pathways to rid myself of some terrible emotions and the result is that I not only become more peaceful and happy but also more effective in living life correctly and making the right choices in any given situation.

Originally Posted by mcwillis

Absolutely not, our true inner nature as spiritual beings is a state of pure bliss, a state of perfection. It is exceedingly hard for a human being to meticulously perform the intense inner work required to experience this state as a moment to moment experience and thus can seem to be idealistic to some people. However, I have subjectively confirmed for myself through meditation, and also objectively, by studying the lives of the great saints and holy men/women of mainly the Eastern religions that it is the case that it isn't idealistic but instead a goal that can be reached by those willing to work towards it.

Do you know why I am skeptical of the idea? Because the people who had mentioned it here hadn't reached it yet. If you did, I believe the words you typed would convey so much power that others will be convinced of it instantly.

Originally Posted by mcwillis

I once had an expansion of consciousness that was so utterly profound it changed my view of what you have said above. In fact my sister holds the same opinion as yourself. I experienced a level of bliss that I thought would be impossible to experience. It lasted for only a few seconds as my body and mind were so overwhelmed by the sheer force of the power of this state of consciousness. I do remember the most predominant thought in my mind afterwards was was that I wished that I could remain in that state continuosusly for the rest of my life. It was pure seductiveness. I had experienced my true inner nature as an immortal spiritual being. It is hard for me to convey how feeling that extremely happy was. In fact it wasn't happiness in the terms of how we usually perceive happiness, it was pure bliss. I wish I could kiss my negative emotions good bye for eterntity but I don't have the time in terms of decades or the discipline to do the internal mental work achieve this state of bliss on a continual basis.

I've never doubt the possibility of pure bliss. The moment I fought my depression away myself, I know it is possible. But you had mentioned you don't have the discipline to achieve this state of bliss. No offence but I feel the stages you're at now makes me feel like you're stuck in between being a human and being a spiritual being. So you're not exactly a human and not exactly a spiritual being. You lacked the aspects to count yourself as either one. If you are really keen on achieving eternal bliss, go for it. You mentioned you studied saints and holy men/women. I believe they have given up a lot to achieve the state of bliss.

Originally Posted by Carrot

Do you know why I am skeptical of the idea? Because the people who had mentioned it here hadn't reached it yet. If you did, I believe the words you typed would convey so much power that others will be convinced of it instantly.

I read a lot of books a couple of decades ago by authors operating from high levels of consciousness yet I wasn't convinced. It was only when my mind began to mature and I returned to those books that I began to understand what they were talking about. I am not saying that you are immature by the way but just pointing out that the written word cannot always convincingly convey the level of consciousness of another person.

Originally Posted by Carrot

I've never doubt the possibility of pure bliss. The moment I fought my depression away myself, I know it is possible. But you had mentioned you don't have the discipline to achieve this state of bliss. No offence but I feel the stages you're at now makes me feel like you're stuck in between being a human and being a spiritual being. So you're not exactly a human and not exactly a spiritual being. You lacked the aspects to count yourself as either one. If you are really keen on achieving eternal bliss, go for it. You mentioned you studied saints and holy men/women. I believe they have given up a lot to achieve the state of bliss.

I used to practice the 12 pathways for upto 8 hours a day simply sitting in a chair and working on whatever negative emotion would come to the surface at any given moment. I gained a great deal of experience doing this. Applying them whilst engaging in everyday activities is ahrd work and slows down the transformation process. I discovered that it is a very slow and also at times a painful process mentally. these days I much prefer the Sedona Method and EFT as they are much faster at bringing about change. I have also found as I have gotten older that my spirituality often takes the back burner as my sense of mortality drives me to chasing my desires in life. But then hey I'm in no rush really, I have plenty of incarnations in front of me to change