Thread: Why is it that we have more bitter feelings than happy feelings?

regarding your original post, i tend to agree with wayfaerer a little bit, people may remember things that are different from the norm more easily.

Originally Posted by Carrot

The twelve pathways sounds too idealistic. Wouldn't one feel out of place if their life is only taken up by happiness?

Absolutely not, our true inner nature as spiritual beings is a state of pure bliss, a state of perfection. It is exceedingly hard for a human being to meticulously perform the intense inner work required to experience this state as a moment to moment experience and thus can seem to be idealistic to some people. However, I have subjectively confirmed for myself through meditation, and also objectively, by studying the lives of the great saints and holy men/women of mainly the Eastern religions that it is the case that it isn't idealistic but instead a goal that can be reached by those willing to work towards it.

Originally Posted by Carrot

There is no sadness or negative emotions to contradict the happiness to bring out the importance and value of happiness.

I once had an expansion of consciousness that was so utterly profound it changed my view of what you have said above. In fact my sister holds the same opinion as yourself. I experienced a level of bliss that I thought would be impossible to experience. It lasted for only a few seconds as my body and mind were so overwhelmed by the sheer force of the power of this state of consciousness. I do remember the most predominant thought in my mind afterwards was was that I wished that I could remain in that state continuosusly for the rest of my life. It was pure seductiveness. I had experienced my true inner nature as an immortal spiritual being. It is hard for me to convey how feeling that extremely happy was. In fact it wasn't happiness in the terms of how we usually perceive happiness, it was pure bliss. I wish I could kiss my negative emotions good bye for eterntity but I don't have the time in terms of decades or the discipline to do the internal mental work achieve this state of bliss on a continual basis.

Originally Posted by Carrot

If it is used to trigger a calm feeling regardless of the situations we face, that would be a different story. But if you're really hurt, and you're backstabbed by the same person you forgive over and over again because the twelve pathways states that we can trigger the type of emotion we want for every event that happened to us. That don't make sense, does it? At the least we should know how to protect ourselves instead of blindly loving and accepting everyone.

When one does operate from a high level of consciousness we realise that we can't be hurt anymore by people and situations in life. We understand that we don't need to protect ourselves and fight back using our animalistic fight or flight defence mechanisms. We don't blindly love and accept the here and now, instead we are able to operate and function in the most optimum fashion. This process of consciousness growth and the resulting experience of raised consciousness is hard to explain. I have used the 12 pathways to rid myself of some terrible emotions and the result is that I not only become more peaceful and happy but also more effective in living life correctly and making the right choices in any given situation.

Originally Posted by Carrot

Why is it that we have more bitter feelings than happy feelings?

Never having touched a woman will do it...

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

I don't follow the 12 pathways but if I were to transpose my practices to that model I'd be around stage 3.

haha, was just about to say I'm in between the 3rd and 4th paths.

Don't follow that either though.

Originally Posted by mcwillis

Absolutely not, our true inner nature as spiritual beings is a state of pure bliss, a state of perfection. It is exceedingly hard for a human being to meticulously perform the intense inner work required to experience this state as a moment to moment experience and thus can seem to be idealistic to some people. However, I have subjectively confirmed for myself through meditation, and also objectively, by studying the lives of the great saints and holy men/women of mainly the Eastern religions that it is the case that it isn't idealistic but instead a goal that can be reached by those willing to work towards it.

Do you know why I am skeptical of the idea? Because the people who had mentioned it here hadn't reached it yet. If you did, I believe the words you typed would convey so much power that others will be convinced of it instantly.

Originally Posted by mcwillis

I once had an expansion of consciousness that was so utterly profound it changed my view of what you have said above. In fact my sister holds the same opinion as yourself. I experienced a level of bliss that I thought would be impossible to experience. It lasted for only a few seconds as my body and mind were so overwhelmed by the sheer force of the power of this state of consciousness. I do remember the most predominant thought in my mind afterwards was was that I wished that I could remain in that state continuosusly for the rest of my life. It was pure seductiveness. I had experienced my true inner nature as an immortal spiritual being. It is hard for me to convey how feeling that extremely happy was. In fact it wasn't happiness in the terms of how we usually perceive happiness, it was pure bliss. I wish I could kiss my negative emotions good bye for eterntity but I don't have the time in terms of decades or the discipline to do the internal mental work achieve this state of bliss on a continual basis.

I've never doubt the possibility of pure bliss. The moment I fought my depression away myself, I know it is possible. But you had mentioned you don't have the discipline to achieve this state of bliss. No offence but I feel the stages you're at now makes me feel like you're stuck in between being a human and being a spiritual being. So you're not exactly a human and not exactly a spiritual being. You lacked the aspects to count yourself as either one. If you are really keen on achieving eternal bliss, go for it. You mentioned you studied saints and holy men/women. I believe they have given up a lot to achieve the state of bliss.

Originally Posted by Hercuflea

Never having touched a woman will do it...

Although having touched too many can make you bitter as well.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

"Do not believe anything just because it is rumored by many."

What's a better way to learn whether the stove is hot, to tell a child that the stove is hot, or to have the child actually touch the red-hot glowing coils of the stove top? One way -- the stove might not *actually* be hot... and the other way, YUP, that stove sure as hell is hot!

Originally Posted by Mindraker

What's a better way to learn whether the stove is hot, to tell a child that the stove is hot, or to have the child actually touch the red-hot glowing coils of the stove top? One way -- the stove might not *actually* be hot... and the other way, YUP, that stove sure as hell is hot!

But social programming does not simply protect us from hot stoves. So much of what we believe went through the washing machine of people repeating it even though they hadn't proved it for themselves. It's more like someone tells one person the stove is too hot to touch, so they tell another person the stove is so hot it'll burn you just by looking at it, so that person tells another that the stove is god and everyone needs to bow down and worship it.

Besides most things in life don't burn you if you test them out for yourself before repeating them to other people.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

Besides most things in life don't burn you if you test them out for yourself before repeating them to other people.

Yeah, but that requires critical thinking, analysis, logic, time, energy, education...

Originally Posted by Carrot

Do you know why I am skeptical of the idea? Because the people who had mentioned it here hadn't reached it yet. If you did, I believe the words you typed would convey so much power that others will be convinced of it instantly.

I read a lot of books a couple of decades ago by authors operating from high levels of consciousness yet I wasn't convinced. It was only when my mind began to mature and I returned to those books that I began to understand what they were talking about. I am not saying that you are immature by the way but just pointing out that the written word cannot always convincingly convey the level of consciousness of another person.

Originally Posted by Carrot

I've never doubt the possibility of pure bliss. The moment I fought my depression away myself, I know it is possible. But you had mentioned you don't have the discipline to achieve this state of bliss. No offence but I feel the stages you're at now makes me feel like you're stuck in between being a human and being a spiritual being. So you're not exactly a human and not exactly a spiritual being. You lacked the aspects to count yourself as either one. If you are really keen on achieving eternal bliss, go for it. You mentioned you studied saints and holy men/women. I believe they have given up a lot to achieve the state of bliss.

I used to practice the 12 pathways for upto 8 hours a day simply sitting in a chair and working on whatever negative emotion would come to the surface at any given moment. I gained a great deal of experience doing this. Applying them whilst engaging in everyday activities is ahrd work and slows down the transformation process. I discovered that it is a very slow and also at times a painful process mentally. these days I much prefer the Sedona Method and EFT as they are much faster at bringing about change. I have also found as I have gotten older that my spirituality often takes the back burner as my sense of mortality drives me to chasing my desires in life. But then hey I'm in no rush really, I have plenty of incarnations in front of me to change

Originally Posted by Mindraker

Yeah, but that requires critical thinking, analysis, logic, time, energy, education...

It requires nothing more than taking responsibility for your own happiness rather than making excuses that you did what all the rumors, teachers and instructions said and it didn't work.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

But social programming does not simply protect us from hot stoves. So much of what we believe went through the washing machine of people repeating it even though they hadn't proved it for themselves. It's more like someone tells one person the stove is too hot to touch, so they tell another person the stove is so hot it'll burn you just by looking at it, so that person tells another that the stove is god and everyone needs to bow down and worship it.

Besides most things in life don't burn you if you test them out for yourself before repeating them to other people.

There was a study on this. Here it is in picture form, since that's all I have

Some lovely stuff from Omnis Dei and mcwillis on this thread. I know that fulfilment of material desire and ambition does not lead to happiness. However, for a long time I've also maintained the firm belief that long-term happiness does not exist and that life can be nothing more than a constant "rollercoaster" between positive and negative emotion. I believed a form of satisfaction could be obtained, but not full happiness as that would require some sort of negative experiences to stop it from dying out.

I'm happy to see another point of view and would love to prove myself wrong.

Eckhart Tolle talks about two forms of consciousness. Not meaning mental activity, but awareness (to be conscious of something). The first is object-oriented consciousness, the second is space-oriented consciousness. Object-oriented consciousness is based purely on objects and their relationships with each other. Everything you are aware of is compared with other things you are aware of. This sort of awareness gives objects the ultimate value because there's nothing else to ascribe any value to. Furthermore, all these objects have a value which is greater or less than other objects.

Space-consciousness is where one becomes aware of space itself, as well as the objects that exist within the space. This exists on multiple levels, such as understanding the silence continues to underlay sound and when sound occurs, it must not be purely compared to other sounds as though that's all there is. Silence remains. This also directly relates to Eckhart Tolle's view of clock time. Clock time is object oriented because everything is fitted into organized time-keeping patterns. Clock-time takes one out of the moment and turns them into a scheduler, continuing to place objects into the schedule. The ironic thing is this is done to maximize enjoyment but once the attitude is habituated it does not stop, so even when you finally arrive at the time and place to collect your reward, such as your vacation or even just your post-work book and beer, you're still scheduling.

We get this idea in our heads that if we don't keep turning the wheel, it will stop spinning. If you've ever actually tried to stop thinking, you'd realize that this not true at all. Thoughts come automatically, without fail. Judgments come even if we don't actively make them. The entire process works just fine even without that singular "you" making it all happen.

Everything in life that you want, you want because thinking that you have it fills you with a tremendously positive feeling. So take the feeling now, without need for proper justification.

Originally Posted by Carrot

I just want to know what's the mindset that's causing us to have more negative feelings than positive ones. If it's about attaining happiness, I believe we have more than enough threads about it.

You should speak for yourself. I have a lot more happy feelings and thoughts than negative ones.

It's just the way the mind works. We remember negative things 3 times better than good things. So if I were to say to you that you look ugly, I would have to compensate that with 3 things to get back the neutral. Yes, you are very good at making pancakes, you're intelligent and your feet doesn't smell all that bad. You see, back to normal again