Thread: The Erosion of Civil Liberty in America

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nsa hypocrisy.jpg

This is rich:
Defense Department Orders Employees, Contractors to Steer Clear of Surveillance Stories | Threat Level | Wired.com

Are we having fun yet?
Secret Service "Visits" Outspoken Critic of Obama - Because of Twitter? - Atlanta Conservative | Examiner.com

[Edit: I don't have twitter, so I haven't seen this guy's posts, outside of the one in question. Someone else was talking about how he's posted some pretty 'threatening' stuff. I'll hold off judgement until I see more.]

Also, I don't know whether this will affect our civil liberties in the future, but it's something to look out for:
Michael Morell Resigns As CIA Deputy Director

Seems like a lot of people are jumping the administrative ship, lately. Doesn't it?

Originally Posted by Oneironaut Zero

Michael Morell Resigns As CIA Deputy Director

Seems like a lot of people are jumping the administrative ship, lately. Doesn't it?

What coincidental timing. It is as if some people in the privacy intrusion faction of the government think things have gone too far.

I've read that most Americans are ok with total surveillance if it "protects them from terrorists."

Troubling times...

Originally Posted by GavinGill

I've read that most Americans are ok with total surveillance if it "protects them from terrorists."

Troubling times...

A government with complete control is every bit as corrupt as any Islamic terrorist organization. Our government is only trustworthy to the extent that we have restrictions on it. If we give up the restrictions, we no longer have a government that can be trusted at all.

Originally Posted by GavinGill

I've read that most Americans are ok with total surveillance if it "protects them from terrorists."

Troubling times...

Yeah. I read that poll today, too.

It was taken from a group of 1004 people.

Majority Views NSA Phone Tracking as Acceptable Anti-terror Tactic | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press

That the media is even sensationalizing it, as if it's somehow indicative of the actual country, is bullshit, insulting, and stands as nothing more than a reason to not believe them in the first place.

liberty oppression.jpg

I got it from a Facebook page called "We stand with Edward Snowden."

I loved reading this:

Analysts who use the system from a Web portal at Fort Meade key in "selectors," or search terms, that are designed to produce at least 51 percent confidence in a target's "foreignness." That is not a very stringent test. Training materials obtained by the Post instruct new analysts to submit accidentally collected U.S. content for a quarterly report, "but it's nothing to worry about."

If he really used a WMD, we wouldn't be saying "Good job Boston first responders for saving lives and acting fast!" -- We'd be saying "Remember Boston? That was a nice town. Was."

Not to go back to old topics but I seriously was apalled when I read that he was charged for using a WMD. I guess the American government is lonely being the only entity to use weapons of mass destruction.

John Oliver points out the Republican Party's ridiculous cognitive dissonance regarding their steadfast protection of the second amendment while supporting the destruction of the rest of the constitution.



The Second Amendment has won in the sense that it has outlasted all the other amendments. If you don't want your calls being tracked, John Oliver recommends a "gun phone."

I would watch The Daily Show if they would stop acting like they work for the Democratic Party. The president of the United States (Obama), his vice president (Biden), the speaker of the House (Pelosi), and the chairperson of the Senate Intelligence Committee (Feinstein) are all Democrats and are the big wigs behind the NSA surveillance program. Why the Hell should they get a free pass out of the negative spotlight on this ridiculous propaganda show? Why does this new Daily Show host have to present the ongoing lie that the Democratic Party is somehow vastly different from the Republican Party on privacy, war, drugs, and taxes? They are the same damn party as far as I am concerned, and stuff like this keeps the two party corruption going. The Democrats have way too much power over Hollywood, and they are continuing their fascism with it.

I think you should give the The Daily Show another shot, Universal. They've been digging it to the Obama administration as of late.

Jon Stewart actually does a pretty good job of picking on the Dems.

Then what went wrong in the above clip?

Nothing went wrong (though John Oliver is hosting rather than Jon Stewart). The GOP does tend to focus on the second amendment while being oddly quiet about the others. They also tend to be the more louder crowd when it comes to leakers. They're the party of "national security."

I won't deny the Daily Show tends to have a lefty bias, but they don't totally ignore the fumbles of the left. It's just that in cases like these, the GOP is the obvious target. It's their territory.

Pointing at the cognitive dissonance of the Republicans does not make one a minister of leftwing propaganda. It makes one honest. Democrats are corrupt, yes, especially considering the mostly democrat-based collusion with Monsanto, but they're not as easy to make fun of, so they tend not to be the butt of as many jokes. CNN doesn't have so many easily ridiculed pundits like Fox, but it doesn't cover news that liberals would be interested in, it covers distractions and the Daily Show gives it shit for rarely covering real news and ignoring important stories. But this, still, is not as funny as what's his face on Fox saying Edward Snowden looks like a weasel as his co-host awkwardly mumbles that she's not sure you're allowed to say that.

The Daily Show is not biased, Republicans in news and politics are just easier to make fun of. And I mean, when your party is meant to convince rural America to vote against their own best interests, you're obviously going to come off looking either like an idiot or a hypocrite.

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

Nothing went wrong (though John Oliver is hosting rather than Jon Stewart). The GOP does tend to focus on the second amendment while being oddly quiet about the others. They also tend to be the more louder crowd when it comes to leakers. They're the party of "national security."

I won't deny the Daily Show tends to have a lefty bias, but they don't totally ignore the fumbles of the left. It's just that in cases like these, the GOP is the obvious target. It's their territory.

They are not the sole national security party gone mad. They are the party that takes up for the Second Amendment while ignoring the Fourth, the Tenth, and the, well, the rest of them, but both parties are assassinating the Bill of Rights. Like I said earlier, the people in charge of the NSA right now are Democrats. It blows my mind that this sub for Stuart or whatever never brought up Obama, Biden, Pelosi, or Feinstein. Those people are at the top of the national security ladder. Pelosi and Feinstein are calling for Snowden's head.

NSA leak: Obama under pressure as Sen. Dianne Feinstein denounces Edward Snowden’s ‘act of treason’ | The Raw Story

Nancy Pelosi Says NSA Leaker Edward Snowden Should Be Prosecuted

Edward Snowden blames Obama - Tal Kopan - POLITICO.com

Of course there are many Republicans in power who are pushing for prosecution of Snowden, but that's a given. The way Democrats sneak out of the eyes of public outrage in these situations is deeply disturbing. It is like how so many Democrats pushed and voted for the war in Iraq and then acted like the war was all a Republican operation. This false presentation is keeping Democrats in office, and they have got to go just as much as the Republicans have got to go.

Originally Posted by Original Poster

Pointing at the cognitive dissonance of the Republicans does not make one a minister of leftwing propaganda. It makes one honest. Democrats are corrupt, yes, especially considering the mostly democrat-based collusion with Monsanto, but they're not as easy to make fun of, so they tend not to be the butt of as many jokes. CNN doesn't have so many easily ridiculed pundits like Fox, but it doesn't cover news that liberals would be interested in, it covers distractions and the Daily Show gives it shit for rarely covering real news and ignoring important stories. But this, still, is not as funny as what's his face on Fox saying Edward Snowden looks like a weasel as his co-host awkwardly mumbles that she's not sure you're allowed to say that.

The Daily Show is not biased, Republicans in news and politics are just easier to make fun of. And I mean, when your party is meant to convince rural America to vote against their own best interests, you're obviously going to come off looking either like an idiot or a hypocrite.

I don't think Republicans are easier to make fun of than Democrats. It's about a tie, though they are funny for different reasons. Do you not think Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi are comical characters? Imagine them being Repblicans. Would they be funny then? Joe Biden is goofiness itself in human form, and Nancy Pelosi is like an anxiety ridden, histrionic pill head lady in a comedy film. Obama goes through life reading a teleprompter and has mental meltdowns when he doesn't have a teleprompter. There is a whole universe of Democrat comedy that could be created. It's just not in style to make fun of Democrats. It really needs to be. The general age group that watches The Daily Show have it far down in their heads that it's cool to be a Democrat. That warped perception of reality needs to be hammered out of existence.

Watching a group of Democrat politicians walking together is like watching clowns enter a circus. Watching a group of Republican politicians walking together is like watching uptight old men walking onto a golf course after church while bitching about the hippies their daughters are screwing. There is a world of room for making fun of both. Watching both groups together is like watching a bunch of corrupt used car salespeople voting for war, prohibition, high taxes, outrageous surveillance, and more social programs and federal agencies than they can get together and name without looking at the bills.

Tell me with a straight face that you don't see comedy in this character who seems like a Zucker-Abrahams creation:



Can you name a stupider comment in the history of U.S. national politics?

Have you watched the Daily Show? Joe Biden provides like a quarter of their material. They make fun of him as often as Boehner. And they had a field day when Anthony Weiner sent someone his namesake. And they've never pulled a punch on Obama, either.

And providing links to show democrat support doesn't make the Republicans any less of the National Security Party by reputation.

Originally Posted by Original Poster

Have you watched the Daily Show? Joe Biden provides like a quarter of their material. They make fun of him as often as Boehner. And they had a field day when Anthony Weiner sent someone his namesake. And they've never pulled a punch on Obama, either.

Every time I watch the show, it's like the clip you posted a few hours ago. You said earlier that Democrats aren't as fun to make fun of.

Originally Posted by Original Poster

And providing links to show democrat support doesn't make the Republicans any less of the National Security Party by reputation.

By reputation. Exactly.

The links aren't just about some Democrats who want Snowden's head on a platter. They concern the views and actions of the president, the speaker of the House, and the chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee.

I know that the Republican Party is insane. You don't have to convince me of that. I just hate the fact that false perceptions of the Democratic Party keep the Libertarians out of office.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

They are not the sole national security party gone mad. They are the party that takes up for the Second Amendment while ignoring the Fourth, the Tenth, and the, well, the rest of them, but both parties are assassinating the Bill of Rights. Like I said earlier, the people in charge of the NSA right now are Democrats. It blows my mind that this sub for Stuart or whatever never brought up Obama, Biden, Pelosi, or Feinstein. Those people are at the top of the national security ladder. Pelosi and Feinstein are calling for Snowden's head.

NSA leak: Obama under pressure as Sen. Dianne Feinstein denounces Edward Snowden’s ‘act of treason’ | The Raw Story

Nancy Pelosi Says NSA Leaker Edward Snowden Should Be Prosecuted

Edward Snowden blames Obama - Tal Kopan - POLITICO.com

Of course there are many Republicans in power who are pushing for prosecution of Snowden, but that's a given. The way Democrats sneak out of the eyes of public outrage in these situations is deeply disturbing. It is like how so many Democrats pushed and voted for the war in Iraq and then acted like the war was all a Republican operation. This false presentation is keeping Democrats in office, and they have got to go just as much as the Republicans have got to go.

I'm not disagreeing with you on the issue of both parties acting against the constitution. Yes, the Democrats are in power, but historically the GOP have been the national security hawks, which brings me to my point that it's entirely reasonable for a show like the Daily Show to attack them when issues such as the NSA leaks come up.

I don't watch the Daily Show daily (derp), but I've watched it enough to know that they aren't a comedic microphone for the Democratic party's agenda. Jon Stewart (and John Oliver) have lefty tendencies to be sure, but like Original Poster is making clear, they are constantly making fun of the Dems. You can't reasonably judge a show's overall message based on certain clips posted on a forum.

Also, Nancy Pelosi isn't the current Speaker of the House.

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

I'm not disagreeing with you on the issue of both parties acting against the constitution. Yes, the Democrats are in power, but historically the GOP have been the national security hawks, which brings me to my point that it's entirely reasonable for a show like the Daily Show to attack them when issues such as the NSA leaks come up.

I don't watch the Daily Show daily (derp), but I've watched it enough to know that they aren't a comedic microphone for the Democratic party's agenda. Jon Stewart (and John Oliver) have lefty tendencies to be sure, but like Original Poster is making clear, they are constantly making fun of the Dems. You can't reasonably judge a show's overall message based on certain clips posted on a forum.

I am not basing it on certain clips on a forum. I have watched the show a bunch of times. It has been Democrat propaganda every time I have seen it, but apparently I have missed a lot of shows where they made fun of Democrats. It just doesn't seem to be their tendency.

Currently, the Democrats are in power, and The Daily Show needs to stop latching on to old stereotypes. It is majorly important that the Democrats are voting like Republicans, but the old stereotypes are blinding too much of the public to that. I think the NSA scandal has snapped a lot of people out of that fog, though.

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

Also, Nancy Pelosi isn't the current Speaker of the House.

Oh, that's true. She's the recent speaker of the House and now the minority leader of the House because the House has a Republican majority now although Congress doesn't. So, she's the leading Democrat in the House. That is one of the highest positions in the federal government, and she is calling for the prosecution of Edward Snowden. That Daily Show sub should have made at least a peep about that.

The problem is there's no punchline if you say "By the way the Democrats are being assholes, too." The punchline with going after Republicans with this whole NSA scandal is that the 2nd amendment wins and if you don't want your phone being tracked, get a gun-phone.

And the reason libertarians don't get into office is because most people don't agree with libertarian philosophy. Like, for instance, me. I don't want to end social programs. I don't want to remove workers' rights and minimum wage. I think teachers should pay less taxes than corporations and "job-creators" not more. I agree with a lot of libertarian philosophy regarding civil liberties, as most liberals do. It's the economic philosophy that stops me from voting for a libertarian, as with most liberals. Unfortunately until a real compromise between libertarians and liberals regarding economic philosophy can be reached, they'll remain unelectable extremists (as will democrats that I agree with such as Dennis Kucinich) and we'll be stuck choosing between authoritarian, corporately owned fascists.

Originally Posted by Original Poster

The problem is there's no punchline if you say "By the way the Democrats are being assholes, too." The punchline with going after Republicans with this whole NSA scandal is that the 2nd amendment wins and if you don't want your phone being tracked, get a gun-phone.

That part I get. It is the rest of the video that is biased. He could have made one comment about Republicans supporting the Second Amendment but not the Fourth and then made his gun joke.

However, Rand Paul and a few other Republicans are on the right side of the NSA issue.

Originally Posted by Original Poster

And the reason libertarians don't get into office is because most people don't agree with libertarian philosophy. Like, for instance, me. I don't want to end social programs. I don't want to remove workers' rights and minimum wage. I think teachers should pay less taxes than corporations and "job-creators" not more. I agree with a lot of libertarian philosophy regarding civil liberties, as most liberals do. It's the economic philosophy that stops me from voting for a libertarian, as with most liberals. Unfortunately until a real compromise between libertarians and liberals regarding economic philosophy can be reached, they'll remain unelectable extremists (as will democrats that I agree with such as Dennis Kucinich) and we'll be stuck choosing between authoritarian, corporately owned fascists.

A very high percentage of people who vote for Democrats vote for them because of the social positions the Democratic Party is mistakenly believed to have. When enough people realize that the Democrats are not truly liberal on social issues or foreign policy, the Libertarians will have much more power. When enough Republicans finally wake up to the fact that their politicians are not truly conservative on economics, the Libertarians will have much more power. We are just waiting for the other two parties' voters to realize that they have false conceptions of their parties because of old stereotypes. When we get there, Libertarians can start getting voted into office and we can have a truly free country.