Thread: Was Sandy Hook a Hoax?

Originally Posted by RunAwayImGay

Whether it was a hoax or not really doesn't make a difference, because the American government is going to use it as an excuse to scare people into obedience and justify restricting their personal right to bear arms.

But it's even sicker and scarier if they staged the whole thing. We can't have a government like that.

This is a very new Sandy Hoax documentary, and it is EXCELLENT.

Originally Posted by Alric

Here is a picture of two lens, one using a wide view and one using a narrow view. The objects are both the same size in both images, but as you can see the second object in the first photo takes up a larger portion of the camera's field of view, thus would appear bigger.

The camera people weren't in the parking lot, but they wanted to see people's faces. So they used cameras with a very narrow field of view in order to zoom in closer to the people they were filming, as a side effect the background appears larger than you might be used to seeing.

I guess that's possible, but it's a pretty bizarrre effect I had not come across before. There is a lot strange about that video.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I guess that's possible, but it's a pretty bizarrre effect I had not come across before. There is a lot strange about that video.

Do you own a camera and take picture often? Otherwise how would you come across it? It is all very common, most people just don't pay attention to that sort of stuff. After all, unless someone specifically pointed out to you like they did in the video, would you have ever noticed on your own?

She makes a good case in that video. Its not so much about gun control, as it is maybe a psychological experiment enacted by CIA. People can roll their eyes at that one but, haven't entire towns been the subject of CIA experiments before?

Originally Posted by Alric

Do you own a camera and take picture often? Otherwise how would you come across it? It is all very common, most people just don't pay attention to that sort of stuff. After all, unless someone specifically pointed out to you like they did in the video, would you have ever noticed on your own?

Yes, and I have noticed it in other videos. That guy in the blue jacket looks superimposed. I would have noticed it if it were just another news clip. Other Sandy Hook news clips have the same bizarre effect.

Originally Posted by juroara

She makes a good case in that video. Its not so much about gun control, as it is maybe a psychological experiment enacted by CIA. People can roll their eyes at that one but, haven't entire towns been the subject of CIA experiments before?

It might be that. It has happened before. I still think it's most likely a gun control false flag because of the gun control bandwagon the alleged family members went on tour with, but that could possibly be intended to make people think a gun control false flag happened to test their reactions. What I know is that the official story is full of holes and that something really bizarre is going on. I am much more opinionated about that than I was when I started this thread in June.

Had a casual skim and it looks like the current bone of contention in this thread is a failure to understand that stuff looks bigger when you're closer to it. Great stuff.

Originally Posted by Xei

Had a casual skim and it looks like the current bone of contention in this thread is a failure to understand that stuff looks bigger when you're closer to it. Great stuff.

And it looks smaller when you're farther away from it. There is also the superimposed look that people have in the video and the fact that a woman partly walked through another one. This is just a chip in a brick in the wall of the Twilight Zone, though. What do you think of the many other mysteries?

I have not given it any kind of dedicated reading, but Alric seems to have been patiently giving cogent responses to the various points throughout the thread.

The cognitive effects which lead people to honestly conclude conspiracies in things like this where there's lots of footage and stuff are well-documented. I think it's always good to be research them before engaging in such conversations, so that you're sufficiently self-critical not to stumble into any pitfalls.

That's all I have to say. I don't have any interest in discussing particular points. Even if the gun control conspiracy were true, it didn't come close to working... so the conspirators are pretty incompetent and powerless. That's my last contribution here.

You should research the issue. It's a pretty insane picture.

Originally Posted by Xei

I have not given it any kind of dedicated reading, but Alric seems to have been patiently giving cogent responses to the various points throughout the thread.

The cognitive effects which lead people to honestly conclude conspiracies in things like this where there's lots of footage and stuff are well-documented. I think it's always good to be research them before engaging in such conversations, so that you're sufficiently self-critical not to stumble into any pitfalls.

That's all I have to say. I don't have any interest in discussing particular points. Even if the gun control conspiracy were true, it didn't come close to working... so the conspirators are pretty incompetent and powerless. That's my last contribution here.

Well said.

I didn´t want to post initially - but - if you really think, it was a hoax - how come it has so many anchor points, where stuff wasn´t orchestrated - if it was staged - it was a damn rotten job.

I mean - the pathologist really didn´t seem like somebody the CIA (or whoever) would put on such a high-profile job.

Where it is all about convincing people and pretend something has been happening differently than it did.
"They" never would have ...

The poor guy resigned the next day, if I remember correctly - maybe he got traumatised.

That can lead to people laughing in a hysterical way - it wouldn´t be the first time, even a pathologist can snap in such a case.
Remember - he is the guy, who had to deal with all the dead children´s bodies.

So I got to say - this guy is the strongest hint, that it is not staged - just human shock and inconsistencies.
And on the other side reporters not wanting to miss "the newest bit of news".




Anyway - only conjecture - see Xei`s post.

The medical examiner, H. Wayne Carver, retired from his position as chief medical examiner of Connecticut in May. He has continued as a part time medical examiner.

http://articles.courant.com/2013-05-...d-wood-chipper

Sandy Hook happened on December 14, 2012.

Sandy Hoax / Shady Hook / Sandy Crook / Fishy Hook was not a well orchestrated hoax. I don't think you will find any of us who disagree with that. It's the basis of our argument. I really don't think the CIA or the FBI was behind it. I think it was probably some knuckle heads in the Obama administration. I don't put Obama on much of a pedestal. He is just a community organizer who pulled off a Senate seat in Illinois, quickly went from there to a Senate seat in the U.S. Congress, and quickly went from there to being president. He was nowhere near qualified for job, he is obviously a con artist, and a sloppy hoax is exactly the kind of thing he would pull.

I have posted some really good documentaries on the issue. I highly encourage you to watch at least one of the documentaries that is longer than 20 minutes. Those are the ones that are full of information and footage. If you click one with the intention of just watching a minute of it, you probably won't want to stop watching it. This is fascinating stuff.

Okay for the sake of argument, lets pretend all those conspiracies are true. That means, the children are actors, none died. The parents are actors, the fire department, police department, medical examiner office and the hospital are in on the conspiracy. All the media people are in on it. What does that mean?

It means that you believe the city of New Town doesn't exist. They faked the entire city. Think about it. If the children and parents are not real, then the school can't possibly exist, no one goes to it. If the school doesn't exist and no one in the city doesn't even notice that, and all the government groups are in on it, then where are the normal people, where are the average citizens? There are none.

The entire city doesn't exist. It is a made up city. Is that what you believe? That Newtown isn't a real place? If you think the town exists then how do you explain people not realizing that the school doesn't exist and that no children actually go to it?

Originally Posted by Alric

Okay for the sake of argument, lets pretend all those conspiracies are true. That means, the children are actors, none died. The parents are actors, the fire department, police department, medical examiner office and the hospital are in on the conspiracy. All the media people are in on it. What does that mean?

It means that you believe the city of New Town doesn't exist. They faked the entire city. Think about it. If the children and parents are not real, then the school can't possibly exist, no one goes to it. If the school doesn't exist and no one in the city doesn't even notice that, and all the government groups are in on it, then where are the normal people, where are the average citizens? There are none.

The entire city doesn't exist. It is a made up city. Is that what you believe? That Newtown isn't a real place? If you think the town exists then how do you explain people not realizing that the school doesn't exist and that no children actually go to it?

Thank you Alric - this is what I was too lazy to point out yesterday - but I could have written it myself word for word.
Well said!

Thumbs2.gif

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

The medical examiner, H. Wayne Carver, retired from his position as chief medical examiner of Connecticut in May. He has continued as a part time medical examiner.

Chief State Medical Examiner Carver Retires - Hartford Courant

Sandy Hook happened on December 14, 2012.

Sandy Hoax / Shady Hook / Sandy Crook / Fishy Hook was not a well orchestrated hoax. I don't think you will find any of us who disagree with that. It's the basis of our argument. I really don't think the CIA or the FBI was behind it. I think it was probably some knuckle heads in the Obama administration. I don't put Obama on much of a pedestal. He is just a community organizer who pulled off a Senate seat in Illinois, quickly went from there to a Senate seat in the U.S. Congress, and quickly went from there to being president. He was nowhere near qualified for job, he is obviously a con artist, and a sloppy hoax is exactly the kind of thing he would pull.

I have posted some really good documentaries on the issue. I highly encourage you to watch at least one of the documentaries that is longer than 20 minutes. Those are the ones that are full of information and footage. If you click one with the intention of just watching a minute of it, you probably won't want to stop watching it. This is fascinating stuff.

Okay - thanks for the info on the medical examiner - I think, my point about his "weird" behaviour still stands - even if he did not retire as a direct consequence like I thought he did.
But he is referred to over and over as a strong argument for staging - I find him to be the exact opposite.

His behaviour still is a strong hint that he has not been put on as an actor - nobody would be that incompetent to set it up like this.
But this whole thing pales compared with Alric´s points.

Do you really think, there are no real children with no real parents involved with this school?
Why do you not see dozens of parents, and the real fire and emergency personnel and whatnot else real people going to the media and kicking up a fuss?
You can not on earth pay everybody off.
And who is now in that school?
Is it shut down?
Do you think, the whole city - or at least the whole school being all one big hoax?

Please answer this question!
Everything stands or falls with this!
Don´t you think?

And how on earth can you imagine something mega-huge like this not being pulled off by CIA or FBI?
Who would on the one hand have the power to do it at all and on the other hand be such "incompetent"?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

some knuckle heads in the Obama administration

Seriously? Pulling off such a huge thing - like faking a whole school, fire-department, emergency people, cars, equipment - hundreds of completely silent co-conspirators on the side of all the - hundreds of? - actors?
If they were able to pull such a silencing off - they would have pulled the whole thing off really, really competently.

Also - please answer with your theory in a concrete matter as well - which "knuckleheads"?
Obama is a very clever man.

Oh - and - like one week ago - I was bored, and read the thread and even watched two of the over 20 min. videos.
Look in my dream journal - I even ended up with two butchered children in a dream and I have been going Nazi-hunting afterwards. Even got lucid for a tiny bit to fly up to a tree and get a better view, where that camp was - well - off-topic-total..
Surely it was not a hidden Nazi-camp in the woods?
Sorry for the sarcasm.


But I can not help to feel - it is just a hunger for excitement and sensationalism to keep on suspecting conspiracies virtually behind every bigger bush.

I've been reluctant to post here, but at last I figured why not if the info is useful.

I grew up in Newtown and went to that very school as a kid. I left Connecticut years ago to be a hermit because of the bad politics (they love Obama, hate guns, and hate liberty). I have not been in touch with my family since then, as we don't see eye to eye (they are all die hard conformists, as as such do not like me very much; nor I them), but having recently found out about my sister's sons' friend(s) being involved in Sandy Hook we have had some dialogue. I have heard that one of the boys involved had seen the shooter; and that he had confessed to my sister's son (in private) that his friend had been killed. I asked if a description of the shooter was given, but she said that none thought to ask, though I suppose no one wanted to ask a traumatized kid such a question anyway. As it was it took some time for her children to stop having nightmares themselves.

I stay out of arguments that involve political opinions these days because I have learned through much pain that they are utterly pointless, as no one actually studies politics or history; so rather than getting into the discussion, that is all that I will say.

Originally Posted by Alric

Okay for the sake of argument, lets pretend all those conspiracies are true. That means, the children are actors, none died. The parents are actors, the fire department, police department, medical examiner office and the hospital are in on the conspiracy. All the media people are in on it. What does that mean?

It means that you believe the city of New Town doesn't exist. They faked the entire city. Think about it. If the children and parents are not real, then the school can't possibly exist, no one goes to it. If the school doesn't exist and no one in the city doesn't even notice that, and all the government groups are in on it, then where are the normal people, where are the average citizens? There are none.

The entire city doesn't exist. It is a made up city. Is that what you believe? That Newtown isn't a real place? If you think the town exists then how do you explain people not realizing that the school doesn't exist and that no children actually go to it?

Originally Posted by StephL

Do you really think, there are no real children with no real parents involved with this school?
Why do you not see dozens of parents, and the real fire and emergency personnel and whatnot else real people going to the media and kicking up a fuss?
You can not on earth pay everybody off.
And who is now in that school?
Is it shut down?
Do you think, the whole city - or at least the whole school being all one big hoax?

I think both of you just went off to Mars. I don't have a theory about what did happen. What I know is that the official story is full of holes. It would not take the entire town being in on something for it to work. If there really was a shooting, there could have been just a few people in on it. If there was not a shooting and the alleged parents are crisis actors, it could have been them, their children who were sent somewhere else or else phony children who were created through computer tricks, a few cops, the medical examiner, and an orchestrator. The rest of the town could have been fooled.

Unlike the other schools where shootings happened, Sandy Hook is being demolished.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.1496521

I do not easily accept conspiracy theories. You can't pin that description on me.

http://www.dreamviews.com/extended-d...-9-11-a-4.html

I don't have to explain what really did happen at Sandy Hook to point out that the official story is a huge WTF. These are the major holes in the official story:

Bad acting from alleged family members, pre-dated web pages, lack of evidence that Adam Lanza was alive in the previous three years, bizarre gun control (as opposed to some other political stance against murder) bandwagon, the fact that many of the alleged parents are proven stage performers, use of green screens, firehouse circle walk, Gene Rosen's nonsense story, Emilie Parker photo with Obama, contradictory and absurd witness accounts, cops video at wrong school. No video or photo of Lanza at the school although the school had a high quality surveillance system, no ambulances at the school, ambulances blocked in at the firehouse, "Sandy Hook" on map in Dark Knight Rises, police chase in woods, scheduled school demolition, Wayne Carver saying he would examine the suspect's body last, parents not allowed to see bodies, cop threatening people who express public disagreement with his story, photoshopped Parker photos (kids with no legs), etc.

Originally Posted by Meskhetyw

I've been reluctant to post here, but at last I figured why not if the info is useful.

I grew up in Newtown and went to that very school as a kid. I left Connecticut years ago to be a hermit because of the bad politics (they love Obama, hate guns, and hate liberty). I have not been in touch with my family since then, as we don't see eye to eye (they are all die hard conformists, as as such do not like me very much; nor I them), but having recently found out about my sister's sons' friend(s) being involved in Sandy Hook we have had some dialogue. I have heard that one of the boys involved had seen the shooter; and that he had confessed to my sister's son (in private) that his friend had been killed. I asked if a description of the shooter was given, but she said that none thought to ask, though I suppose no one wanted to ask a traumatized kid such a question anyway. As it was it took some time for her children to stop having nightmares themselves.

I stay out of arguments that involve political opinions these days because I have learned through much pain that they are utterly pointless, as no one actually studies politics or history; so rather than getting into the discussion, that is all that I will say.

Oh, really? You're from Newtown, which has a population of 1,973? And you found my thread? I think I have seen about 1,973 people on the internet claiming to be from Newtown. They all know somebody who knows somebody who knows somebody who heard something. I'm sorry that the love for Obama and hatred for guns in Newtown turned you into a hermit although you went to a different state.

By the way, I do study politics to the point of obsession, and I wrote the first draft of a world history textbook. You made a judgment error.

Wow such anger. I was simply trying to help. Unfortunately I am still human in some ways.

For what it's worth, if anyone on this forum can see my IP, you will see that I am connecting from Newtown right now; I am visiting an old friend. I know it doesn't prove much, but whatever. One of these days I will have the sense to stay out of these things entirely. Forget I said anything. When one generalizes it is always seen as a condemnation of every single person on the planet.

Originally Posted by Meskhetyw

Wow such anger. I was simply trying to help. Unfortunately I am still human in some ways.

For what it's worth, if anyone on this forum can see my IP, you will see that I am connecting from Newtown right now; I am visiting an old friend. I know it doesn't prove much, but whatever. One of these days I will have the sense to stay out of these things entirely. Forget I said anything. When one generalizes it is always seen as a condemnation of every single person on the planet.

Anger, no. Just skepticism and disagreement. I notice that you are playing professional victim. That too is common. I'm sure there are servers in Newtown that your account can use. There is clearly an organized effort to have people all over the internet saying they are from Newtown. It's every bit as pathetic as the hoax itself.

However, it's not impossible that you are from Newtown. I am just pointing out that your line of argument is all over the place and is typically bullshit. If the people of Newtown are really this determined to express passionate defense of the official story, go on television and do it. Let Ben Swann or RT interview you. The audience you are trying to reach on the internet will be watching.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

There is clearly an organized effort to have people all over the internet saying they are from Newtown.

I already debunked pretty much all those 'holes'. The holes you are seeing are entirely imaginary and in your head. Like you saying Sandy Hook is on map in Dark Knight Rises. Are you suggesting that the people who made the movie were in on it too? How could they possibly have any connection what so ever to it? And even if they did, why would they put that in a movie? That is absurd, it makes no sense.

The fact that you still believe those things, despite them being proven untrue shows how biased you have become on the issue.

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

Is that supposed to be an argument? Well gosh gee willikers, I think I'm stumped.

Originally Posted by Alric

I already debunked pretty much all those 'holes'. The holes you are seeing are entirely imaginary and in your head. Like you saying Sandy Hook is on map in Dark Knight Rises. Are you suggesting that the people who made the movie were in on it too? How could they possibly have any connection what so ever to it? And even if they did, why would they put that in a movie? That is absurd, it makes no sense.

The fact that you still believe those things, despite them being proven untrue shows how biased you have become on the issue.

You didn't debunk any of them. You are in extreme denial.

I think there is a good chance that the person or people behind Sandy Hoax got their kicks by slipping Sandy Hook onto a map in Dark Knight Rises. All it would take is knowing or paying the director or producer. Do you not find it the least bit odd that the name is the main thing showing on a map in a movie that was shown in a theater where another alleged shooting happened, when that same movie showed a building with the name of the town where the theater shooting happened? I'm not 100% positive that there is a connection, but do you admit that it's at least a really weird coincidence?

That is the smallest hole, by the way. I think that's why you picked it. The list is way longer than that.

Originally Posted by Meskhetyw

Wow such anger. I was simply trying to help. Unfortunately I am still human in some ways.

For what it's worth, if anyone on this forum can see my IP, you will see that I am connecting from Newtown right now; I am visiting an old friend. I know it doesn't prove much, but whatever. One of these days I will have the sense to stay out of these things entirely. Forget I said anything. When one generalizes it is always seen as a condemnation of every single person on the planet.

No.
I find your info useful.
Look at BLUELINE`s and my reaction.
Actually - I wasn´t yet answering, because I wasn´t sure, what exactly you are saying.
Once more:

Originally Posted by Meskhetyw

I grew up in Newtown and went to that very school as a kid.
I left Connecticut years ago to be a hermit because of the bad politics (they love Obama, hate guns, and hate liberty).
I have not been in touch with my family since then, as we don't see eye to eye (they are all die hard conformists, as as such do not like me very much; nor I them), but having recently found out about my sister's sons' friend(s) being involved in Sandy Hook we have had some dialogue.

So you directly contradict Universal Mind and say the majority vote conservative and there are comparably many weapons in private use?
Here something, which backs this - the democrats seem to be even happy with getting at least 40% back - administration is conservative:

Originally Posted by http://newtownctdemocrats.org/

On More Democrats in Newtown Politics

“This town ran best when the two major parties were in balance, and that’s the whole thing with restore balance,” he says. “This town functioned a lot better when it was 50/49. 60/40 even wasn’t bad. But the Democrats are poorly represented on any of the boards right now, and I just want to see a return to that balance … I think right now we’re seeing one-sided politics. I’d like to have more of a balanced voice in town.”

Originally Posted by Meskhetyw

I have heard that one of the boys involved had seen the shooter;
and that he had confessed to my sister's son (in private) that his friend had been killed.

Strange use of the term "confession" I find. Interesting.

Originally Posted by Meskhetyw

I asked if a description of the shooter was given, but she said that none thought to ask, though I suppose no one wanted to ask a traumatized kid such a question anyway. As it was it took some time for her children to stop having nightmares themselves.

Well. Not so good maybe.
I would ask my child.
Especially after such a long time and especially with children, who are very suggestive in general - this is much too late now, probably.
Depends.

Originally Posted by Meskhetyw

I've been reluctant to post here, but at last I figured why not if the info is useful.

Originally Posted by Meskhetyw

I stay out of arguments that involve political opinions these days because I have learned through much pain that they are utterly pointless, as no one actually studies politics or history; so rather than getting into the discussion, that is all that I will say.

I just before had the impulse to quote my husband elsewhere - and he actually loves to listen to history lecture series - among other topics, as a side-note.
He said something like "trying to convince people on the internet is one definition of madness".
And he does have a point.

More to follow..

Steph, what is your retort to the holes I listed?

I found this video recently. It's pretty interesting. I am still curious about where Madeline's and Samantha's legs are in the picture where Emilie is wearing the dress she wore in the picture with Obama.