Quote Originally Posted by dutchraptor View Post
I actually agree with this almost all the time. I think the scientific method and reason should be adhered to at all times.
I'll reply to your other comment once I figure out exactly how to put my thoughts into words, or what exactly my full thoughts on this are.

A small thing I'd like to point out though is that while science provides us with tests to measure our confidence, it gives us no concrete manner in which to interpret the confidence level received. From what I've read of other people, studies would show that we are 90% confident that climate change is occurring to the extent we predict. It's a pretty bad level of confidence to be at in general, because there is a huge margin of error. That's where a lot of scientific methods fall short, because there is no easy way to formulate a necessary confidence level taking priority into account.

I definitely agree with you that we should never assert that our beliefs are absolute fact. At any rate though, I believe that the priority and importance of climate change indicates that we should be willing to accept a lower level of confidence. This is probably where you and I disagree, with yourself choosing to wait until a higher level of confidence is reached.
No I agree with you guys, at least mostly. What I have a problem with is flat out calling others wrong and calling yourselves right. You are not guilty of this. Somebody like Alric, however, is. I can trust your judgment, his on the other hand is as valuable as somebody who flat out denies climate change because he is unwilling to even consider that the information is being misinterpreted or that there is more information to be found and the implications of such information might well change what we believe about climate change. If you insist on calling others wrong, illogical, or that what they think is utter bullshit then you are a danger to your own cause and you might as well shut up before nobody can take what you are saying seriously.

Quote Originally Posted by Alric View Post
That sounds all well and good, except it is utter bullshit. We are talking about observations and fact. You can argue and debate on if you think humans are the main cause or not but it is silly to argue over the observable facts. The sea level is raising, humans put a lot of carbon dioxide in the air, there is more of it in the air now than before, carbon dioxide is a green house gas that can trap heat, the earth is getting warm, land ice is melting all over are all facts.

If I use a ruler and I measure a piece of wood thirty times and find that the length of the wood is around 5 inches and someone comes by and says it is really 15 feet long, it isn't closed minded to say they are wrong. Nor is it religious like or dogmatic to say that the wood is 5 inches long because you measured it multiple times and that is what it is. But you know what? You are a not 100% sure, maybe your ruler is incorrectly marked. So you use 6 more rulers of different make and model and have seven friends all try to measure the wood. And everyone agrees and find it is 5 inches. Yet that one other guy still goes, "Well you are all wrong it is 15 feet."

Then you ask them what that idea is based on and they give some illogical reason that makes no sense. That is pretty much how this debate goes. We have all this data that clearly says something, and some people just ignore the data because they have their own opinion.

Now if you want to say no one can ever know anything in this world, and that we could be imagining everything or stuff like that, that is philosophy not science and it would be silly to deny global warming based off the philosophical idea that a person can never know anything because there is a possibility they are just a brain hooked up to a simulator.
I feel as though you have missed the entire point of my posts and you should probably refer to my answer to dutchraptor above. You might just see what I am talking about now. I don't care about what the data is saying, I'm not even arguing about that. I'm arguing with your attitude and opinion toward others because they do not understand or interpret the data as you do. If you took the time to calmly respond to them with logic and quit using over-the-top phrasing and sometimes flat out insulting others, I could actually take what you are saying seriously. Since you seem totally unrepentant and insist on saying everything I am saying is bullshit when the point of my post is quite obviously flying right over your head, you just keep digging yourself a bigger hole. I honestly just can't take you seriously man, grow up a little bit, post like a mature human being.