Thread: Why Obama shall win;

Originally Posted by Dreamworld

He wasn't saying he was black and that America screwed him over, he is pointing out fallacies the country has made, and that it continues to make mistakes. How can you judge a person based on 2 sentences he made on a speech? And to go further than that and judge a person on a couple sentences his preacher made. It is nonsensical. Read the 500 word speech he made.

I didn't say he said he was black and America screwed him over. I was saying that such a point would come from the same mentality he has. He speaks in major generalizations. He does it in a manner that is illogical and shows nationalist hatred. Did you read what I wrote about the congregation's reaction to his more than two sentences? Did you read what I wrote about the congregation's reaction to what Pfleger said in far more than two sentences? Did you see my question about whether it is a coincidence that the congregation just happened to reveal itself to think that way too? Did you see what I said about how that situation proves that Obama was going to an extremist church and had to have known it?

Surely a president, if it's anything like the UK, has a whole team of politicians to help him write new policies. He may say, " I want to lower taxes and help the poor!", but it is his team of highly skilled politicians, lawyers etc who make the policy, i mean ok he has his input but it's not like Obama or McCain just sit down and write a new policy and bam it's law. What i mean is surely no matter who wins when they make a dumb policy and their is public outrage they will have to change the policy because they don't want to lose the next election, just like in England Gordon Brown reversed the 10p tax rate because all the working class people were pissed off and he fears losing their vote. Of course then he was called weak for doing that, but that kind of public and media stupidity is for another day. Anyway people in his party can vote against his policies, which in the UK they often do debate them for quite a while, maybe in America policies pass right through without ridicule, i don't know.

Also the reason i don't want to see McCain is charge is because to me it seems he is an old war veteran who frankly dislikes the East in general. Wasn't he captured in a war he was involved in? He has sang " bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran", Obama may have little experience but i haven't seen him do that. Obama won't win because he is black, i still think in the end more Americans will vote for the white guy, even if it ends up being close i think McCain will win. The only reason he wouldn't is because people want a Democrat not a Republican because Bush sucked so much to them, so they'll vote Democrat not necessarily vote Obama himself.

I just want a president that's not going to point at a random location in the middle East and say " OMG THEY HAVE WMD's!!!! Bomb them to shit!.....and...secure that OIL!!! YEEEEHA!!". To me Obama is less likely to do this. I know people say he seems soft on terrorism, but then again if those terrorists are not lying in their extremist speeches, they often say they will attack until America leaves their lands alone. Maybe if he America slowly withdraws troops and doesn't invade elsewhere their will be peace for a few years( I'm not going to be overly optimistic and say generations because they'll start fighting again. The only way to prevent it is to wipe out all radical Muslims, Christians, Jews, Sikhs etc, however that counts as Genocide..)

Originally Posted by cuddleyperson

I know people say he seems soft on terrorism, but then again if those terrorists are not lying in their extremist speeches, they often say they will attack until America leaves their lands alone.

Read the answer to Q2 of Bin Laden' Letter to America and see otherwise.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver

Make sure you catch the line about how Al Qaeda will not call off their war with us until "ALL" of those unrealistic demands are met. That is how the Islamofascists think. These nuts want to take over the world. I hope the majority of the West realizes that soon.

Hamas is publicly supporting Obama. Go figure. I would bet you my car that Al Qaeda is rooting for Obama. If Obama wins the election, Al Qaeda will have much more confidence about attacking us domestically and will AGAIN start throwing out the terms "weak" and "paper tiger". Read up on why they said it last time. Obama = bad idea.

Hamas is publicly supporting Obama.

Another guilt by assiociation argument. The neo nazi proberly support McCain, does that make McCain bad?

I would bet you my car that Al Qaeda is rooting for Obama.

Speculation at its best, well done. I bet terrorist are rooting for McCain, as having a 100 year war in Iraq will be good breading ground for hatred of US. Do you know that Al Qaeda was not in Iraq intill US invaded?

Al Qaeda will have much more confidence about attacking us domestically and will AGAIN start throwing out the terms "weak" and "paper tiger".

The worse terrorist attack happen with Bush in charge.

I bet you voted for Bush.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3aMDJP4VxY4
McCain is just like Bush, crappy speakers.

Originally Posted by Good as Gold

Look at Mr. Obama's crowds: Young people. Hip people. People of all ages and races, all united behind one man who perfectly represents his supporters- a man of two races, black and white.

Hillary's? Old sweaty white women who bring their old, sweaty, white husbands to hold the sign.

According to the media, John Mccain doesn't exist.

yes, he did win the democratic nomintation, i do feel however that Hillary Clinton would have made a much better president, but when it comes to it, Mr. Obama has much more electibility, which means he is more likely to be elected. but many people in the unted states will not Vote for a Black person. Especially with the name, and heritage of his. I personally think that He will not make a good president but, look at the alternative, 70+ year old John McCain, who will *finish* the *conflict* in iraq. but truthfully. You as an American and a voter must be logical, and unselfish. for this you must think, what will be the best for my country, If my Nation is doing well, i am doing well(there are exceptions of this, mainly minorities or gays/lesbians, which is completely rididculous, everyone should be equal and have rights and not be predjusized.) But as i white male i can say the Mr. Obama will do much better than McCain becuz we spend 720 Million a day in a iraq if we no longer had that conflict on our hands, we could do so much more.. education would be Much better (especially without no child left behind) its simply the better choice. If you do not vote you are selfish, and should not even be discussing this, i feel i have the right to speak about this becuase i am not able to vote, and i feel incredibly strongly about this.

Originally Posted by wendylove

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3aMDJP4VxY4
McCain is just like Bush, crappy speakers.

This is hilarious stuff. It could be straight from a parody movie.

Originally Posted by wendylove

Another guilt by assiociation argument. The neo nazi proberly support McCain, does that make McCain bad?

Speculation at its best, well done. I bet terrorist are rooting for McCain, as having a 100 year war in Iraq will be good breading ground for hatred of US. Do you know that Al Qaeda was not in Iraq intill US invaded?

The worse terrorist attack happen with Bush in charge.

I bet you voted for Bush.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3aMDJP4VxY4
McCain is just like Bush, crappy speakers.

Haha, UM watch the video.

Originally Posted by wendylove

Another guilt by assiociation argument. The neo nazi proberly support McCain, does that make McCain bad?

No, I said nothing about guilt. That is a variable you introduced into this. It is relevant because Hamas likes specifically Obama's Middle East and terrorism ideas. Middle Eastern terrorists like Obama's Middle Eastern terrorism handling ideas. Specifically, they want to see us weaker. Obama is the man for that, which is a problem.

Originally Posted by wendylove

Speculation at its best, well done. I bet terrorist are rooting for McCain, as having a 100 year war in Iraq will be good breading ground for hatred of US. Do you know that Al Qaeda was not in Iraq intill US invaded?

No, it is not an alternative I might as well have drawn out of a hat. Al Qaeda wants generally the same things Hamas wants, one of which is a weakened United States.

McCain does not want a 100 year war in Iraq. That is another smoke and mirrors illusion presented by the left wing bullshit media. McCain said we might need troops there that long in the way we have had troops in countries like Germany and Korea. Are we still at war with those countries? That is spin you are talking.

Originally Posted by wendylove

The worse terrorist attack happen with Bush in charge.

Right after the eight year Clinton presidency, which involved the presidential move that Bin Laden himself said convinced him that we are "weak" and a "paper tiger", which Bin Laden said gave him and his Al Qaeda scum the idea that they could pull off 9/11.

Originally Posted by wendylove

I bet you voted for Bush.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3aMDJP4VxY4
McCain is just like Bush, crappy speakers.

That is true. I left a post going off about that yesterday. The Republicans keep nominating terrible speakers. Yep. That still beats the Hell out of a total dipshit on foreign policy.

Holy crap. Don't you guys have presidential debates sometimes? No matter how good McCains policies might or might not be, unless he does some serious hardcore intensive practicing on public speaking, he will not survive any head-to-head debate and I will probably cringe in pain and not know whether to laugh or cry. If I was I him I'd cry myself to sleep just thinking about that event...

Originally Posted by Gwoger

But as i white male i can say the Mr. Obama will do much better than McCain becuz we spend 720 Million a day in a iraq if we no longer had that conflict on our hands, we could do so much more.. education would be Much better (especially without no child left behind) its simply the better choice.

The problem with our public education system is not lack of funding. It is lack of standards, which could be fixed by adding the element of competition. I used to be a private school teacher, and I saw how little people learned in the public schools around here when they transferred to my school. People would come out of public school algebra and not even be able to solve for x when 3x + 4 = 16. It was not just that they could not do it. They had no Earthly idea what it was. They would be in geometry and get to the simplest of algebra equations and act like they had never seen them in their lives. I would explain, "You want to get x by itself to see what it equals," and they would look at me like I was from Mars. Too many people around here graduate from public high schools literally unable to read. Literally illiterate. No Child Left Behind promotes that junk, and even demands it. We need to drop that policy, and we need to use at least a voucher system to start running the public schools like private schools. That will turn everything around completely. Simply throwing more money at the public education system has never made the problem budge even an inch.

Originally Posted by Korittke

Holy crap. Don't you guys have presidential debates sometimes? No matter how good McCains policies might or might not be, unless he does some serious hardcore intensive practicing on public speaking, he will not survive any head-to-head debate and I will probably cringe in pain and not know whether to laugh or cry. If I was I him I'd cry myself to sleep just thinking about that event...

That definitely is something to worry about. It blows my mind that the Republicans keep nominating people who trip all over their words during speeches. Bob Dole, George Bush Jr., and John McCain have all been serious liabilities because of their inabilities to speak, and every election there have been Republican candidates who can speak extremely well. The debates are incredibly important to how presidential elections turn out. I think it would be easy to tear Barack Obama to shreds over his (lack of) policy ideas, but it would take a good speaker to do that. Giuliani would eat Obama for lunch. But they nominate McCain? I don't get it. Hopefully McCain won't suck so bad if he is not reading a teleprompter. I think that was the biggest problem in some of those recent public appearances. I don't want Obama to win the election, but if he does, I am not going to feel sorry for the people who voted in the primaries for McCain.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I didn't say he said he was black and America screwed him over. I was saying that such a point would come from the same mentality he has. He speaks in major generalizations. He does it in a manner that is illogical and shows nationalist hatred. Did you read what I wrote about the congregation's reaction to his more than two sentences? Did you read what I wrote about the congregation's reaction to what Pfleger said in far more than two sentences? Did you see my question about whether it is a coincidence that the congregation just happened to reveal itself to think that way too? Did you see what I said about how that situation proves that Obama was going to an extremist church and had to have known it?

Answer me one question. Has Obama shown any extremist traits? There is proof he went to an extremist church, but no proof he is extremist. How are you going to prefer McCain? No education past high school, extremely poor on public speaking, and almost unchanged political policies as George W. Bush. He admits he doesn't know much about economics, he contradicts himself over, and over.

Hopefully we will see McCain blow over after actual competition. After Obama's speech on Iran, he is showing he is stronger, and more fit to be a leader. If McCain is president, we would not have the historic speeches, and nationalism, as we would with Obama. Obama is not only smarter, and more confident, but symbolizes a country united once more.

Be realistic. How can Obama be anti American, when he is running for president of the country?

Hamas is publicly supporting Obama. Go figure. I would bet you my car that Al Qaeda is rooting for Obama. If Obama wins the election, Al Qaeda will have much more confidence about attacking us domestically and will AGAIN start throwing out the terms "weak" and "paper tiger". Read up on why they said it last time. Obama = bad idea.

Sorry but McCain made himself look very weak in his last speech, while Obama attacked Islamic extremists.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dEGecX3XjKE&feature=related

Yea I'm sure Islam extremists are happy.

We're all fucked, thats for sure. They're all douchebags, thats for sure aswell

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Which part is hyperbole: going to, twenty years, extremist, anti-American, or church?



Wow, you just jumped to a whole bunch of conclusions. Do you get your information on people from the Psychic service advertised on the main forum page? Go to the Religion forum and see for yourself just how right wing I am, or read in this forum about what I think of the illegality of drugs, prostitution, and gay marriage, or the proposed flag burning amendment. Read my opinions in the pornography thread. You can then know just how closed-minded and conclusion leaping you are.

Say something logical to counter my points, and you will change my mind. Surprise me.

Oh, and just watch...

To be honest, UM; for the most part you are liberal. This is why I attribute your neo-conservative outlook on foreign policy to ignorance. You don't seem to know exactly what it is you don't know about what goes on in the rest of the world; that is to say, you assume you do know what goes on, and those assumptions are based largely in information you seem to get from the conservative news media.

You are liberal about things that effect you directly but are fairly conservative when the policies and ideas don't actually effect your own life to any great degree.

I will not claim to know better than you do, but I will claim to have a more open mind to what else could be true other than what our government, military, and the the channels that they choose to communicate with you through have to say.

Perhaps the distinction comes in what could be described as a benign naivete that you seem to have about the people in power over you, although maybe you'd prefer to call it my cynism.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

To be honest, UM; for the most part you are liberal. This is why I attribute your neo-conservative outlook on foreign policy to ignorance. You don't seem to know exactly what it is you don't know about what goes on in the rest of the world; that is to say, you assume you do know what goes on, and those assumptions are based largely in information you seem to get from the conservative news media.

You are liberal about things that effect you directly but are fairly conservative when the policies and ideas don't actually effect your own life to any great degree.

I will not claim to know better than you do, but I will claim to have a more open mind to what else could be true other than what our government, military, and the the channels that they choose to communicate with you through have to say.

Perhaps the distinction comes in what could be described as a benign naivete that you seem to have about the people in power over you, although maybe you'd prefer to call it my cynism.

I am liberal where it makes sense to be liberal. I am not the kind of person who joins a political ideology as if it is a cult and embraces everything they believe. I am an issue by issue person. My foreign policy beliefs are rooted in logic. If you disagree, then prove me wrong on them. You have never been able to do that. I don't trust the people in power over me completely or blindly. I know how the world works, I understand the nature of evil, and I understand how evil has to be handled.

Originally Posted by Dreamworld

Answer me one question. Has Obama shown any extremist traits? There is proof he went to an extremist church, but no proof he is extremist. How are you going to prefer McCain? No education past high school, extremely poor on public speaking, and almost unchanged political policies as George W. Bush. He admits he doesn't know much about economics, he contradicts himself over, and over.

Nobody goes to an extremist church for twenty years unless he is an extremist or else is living a lie. One way or the other, Obama cannot be trusted.

You don't have to convince me that McCain sucks. McCain sucks. But he has shown the he understands the world a great deal better than Obama does, and I think he is in the race for the right reasons. I think Obama is all about power and anti-American resentment.

Originally Posted by Dreamworld

Be realistic. How can Obama be anti American, when he is running for president of the country?

Are you joking? He is a power hungry politician. Don't assume that every person who runs for president wants anything other than power. In fact, don't ever assume that any Democrat is in it for anything other than that. They are all a bunch of used car salespeople. Every time you hear a Democrat talk, imagine that person trying to sell you a car. You might see what I mean.

Originally Posted by Dreamworld

Sorry but McCain made himself look very weak in his last speech, while Obama attacked Islamic extremists.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dEGecX3XjKE&feature=related

Yea I'm sure Islam extremists are happy.

McCain is just a better brand of douche than Obama. I am not gung-ho McCain. You are preaching to the choir. But I have already caught Obama lying his ass off, not knowing what in the world he is talking about, and showing too many signs of being anti-American. That makes him disqualified. On top of that, terrorists and lots of other America haters are very excited over the idea that he might be our president. We are dealing with a very messed up situation.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

We're all fucked, thats for sure. They're all douchebags, thats for sure aswell

Yup, plain and simple 99.99 % of the government lies and doesn't give a fuck about me or you, or anyone else that stands in their way.

UM, I must respond to some of your inquiries, And I will do so with respect.

You claimed that the 100 year war was left-wing bs? I disagree, mccain himself said if it takes 1000 or 10,000 years he would commit the United states to a war for TEN THOUSAND YEARS. He said this with his own mouth and this was actually shown on right-wing news.

You also stated that Hamas likes Obama, I don't believe they like him because he will 'weaken' america but rather because he will stop sticking america's nose in their business.


Let me explain to you all why it is that the west is hated such in the middle east.


Well lets start with israel, we with the UK and Russia pretty much kicked the palestinians out of their own land, and handed it on a silver platter to the israeli's (holocaust survivors), Now I understand that we felt bad for their loss, but taking away other people's land is not the way to do it.

We could of given them land anywhere else, there is much un-occupied land throughout the earth, why pick that area? It's almost as if the UK and the US purposefully started the conflict so they can ensure war profits in the future.

The reality today is this, the military industrial complex drives our wars, not our presidents or government...they are puppets...and the military industrial complex and many others are the puppet masters.

The War on terror is a big scam, a scheme to scare the people of earth into a one world government, where one man controls everything on this earth. The war on terror is like a war on ideas...terror isn't a country...nor is it organized. Terrorists are all seperate independant groups with no nation or army, navy...etc

How can you claim that they want to take over the world?

How could they?

They do not have the capacity to 'rule the world', they are a bunch of brain washed peasants who have no organization, it is an absolute joke when people claim islamofascists will take over the world.

At the most, there are approx 60,000 to 100,000 terrorists throughout the whole planet, we alone in the united states have 500,000 soldiers...

The war on terror was created and engineered by the Rockefellers...the war in afghanistan was to build an oil pipeline to the caspian sea.


Let me go back in history a little bit for a moment:




in 1953, the CIA overthrows the iranian government and installs a brutal dictator, years later..we overthrow iraq and install saddam hussein, another brutal dictator.

You can thank the CIA for todays problems, the cost of oil...the cia's fault...the war's, the cia's fault.

the cia also trained and armed AL QAEDA

Now tell me, why the fuck does our country arm the world, and then 2 decades later claim our former allies are now enemies?

WE'RE CREATING THE ENEMIES, its all business...war is business and the more enemies we make the better for our so called 'democracy'


Read about the Project for a New American Century guys, their manifesto claims that:

"we must pave a way for american dominance in the middle east, and will use force"

Watch a film called:

America: Freedom to Fascism

This movie will explain everything in a nutshell, and this movie will make you want to stand up and fight against these evil war mongering profiteers.

Bush is merely a figurehead, and he is not in charge...the war wasn't engineered by bush, the rockefellers, rothschilds, morgans, and warburgs are who control america, and soon THE WORLD.


I think once senior bush said this..the quote isn't EXACT but close.

"if the people knew what we really were doing we would be chased in the streets and lynched"
-George HW Bush

Guerilla, I agree that what happened with Israel in 1948 was way out of line, but it was just a really bad attempt at ending a very age old war. It backfired, and we can see more clearly now that it was not the thing to do. However, most of our support for Israel has been legitimate. It is 2008 now, and we are many generations later. Things are not as simple as just giving land "back" to "them" (not your words, but commonly used ones).

McCain did not talk about "war" for 100 years. He was talking about having a base there. There is a very big difference between the two. We have troops in Germany to this day, but we are not at war with them. This is the comment that got the controversy going...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vf7HYoh9YMM

Did you hear him compare the situation to ours in Japan and South Korea?

As for the Islamofascist mentality and conquest, read just how unrealistic, outrageous, and demanding the answer to Q2 of Bin Laden's letter to America is. Notice the sentence near the bottom where he says that their war with us will not stop until "all" of their demands are met.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver

Also notice that he insists that countries should be run by the Koran.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Guerilla, I agree that what happened with Israel in 1948 was way out of line, but it was just a really bad attempt at ending a very age old war. It backfired, and we can see more clearly now that it was not the thing to do. However, most of our support for Israel has been legitimate. It is 2008 now, and we are many generations later. Things are not as simple as just giving land "back" to "them" (not your words, but commonly used ones).

McCain did not talk about "war" for 100 years. He was talking about having a base there. There is a very big difference between the two. We have troops in Germany to this day, but we are not at war with them. This is the comment that got the controversy going...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vf7HYoh9YMM

Did you hear him compare the situation to ours in Japan and South Korea?

As for the Islamofascist mentality and conquest, read just how unrealistic, outrageous, and demanding the answer to Q2 of Bin Laden's letter to America is. Notice the sentence near the bottom where he says that their war with us will not stop until "all" of their demands are met.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver

Also notice that he insists that countries should be run by the Koran.

Thats all fine and dandy but you didn't answer my question, do they have the capacity to take over earth?

NO, they cannot, will not, and never will even come close to 'ruling the world'

They can say whatever they want but, they won't take over the world...its physically impossible.

Also, PLEASE WATCH FREEDOM TO FASCISM, if you don't watch this movie I will not reply to this thread anymore, please for the sake of humanity and all that's right and good WATCH THAT MOVIE PLEASEEEEEEEE.


Also, you have a point with the mccain thing, I agree that the truth was stretched. But that still doesn't change the fact that I hate mccain, obama and hillary equally lol

we have been given the worst pick in history for a president.

We have a young inexperienced and CORRUPT man called obama

We have an old corrupt status quo grouch called mccain

And then we have a wonderful man from texas who wants to fix all of our problems FOR REAL named Ron Paul.

And who do the people vote for, the two biggest liars.

The people want liars? they deserve 6$ a gallon, if they vote for these candidates they deserve a weak economy and a crashing dollar, its the people's own fault...and they deserve this recession for being such irresponsible voters.

Originally Posted by guerilla

Thats all fine and dandy but you didn't answer my question, do they have the capacity to take over earth?

Not yet, and I am not worried that they literally will. I am worried that they will use nuclear or other WMD terrorism to wipe out too much of Western civilization while trying.

Originally Posted by guerilla

Also, PLEASE WATCH FREEDOM TO FASCISM, if you don't watch this movie I will not reply to this thread anymore, please for the sake of humanity and all that's right and good WATCH THAT MOVIE PLEASEEEEEEEE.

Request noted.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Not yet, and I am not worried that they literally will. I am worried that they will use nuclear or other WMD terrorism to wipe out too much of Western civilization while trying.



Request noted.

ok cool, well atleast you have an open mind about watching the film, also i edited and added stuff on my last post if you didn't see, i edit too much

btw UM, I don't have anything personal against you, your a cool guy but, we just don't see eye to eye on politics but, politics isn't everything and I believe we should all get along reguardless of our opinions, im sure all of us here can find things we all like non-political, lets get along shall we everyone?

Originally Posted by guerilla

ok cool, well atleast you have an open mind about watching the film, also i edited and added stuff on my last post if you didn't see, i edit too much

btw UM, I don't have anything personal against you, your a cool guy but, we just don't see eye to eye on politics but, politics isn't everything and I believe we should all get along reguardless of our opinions, im sure all of us here can find things we all like non-political, lets get along shall we everyone?

I like your attitude. More gets accompished when people are working peacefully to get to the truth together. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I like your attitude. More gets accompished when people are working peacefully to get to the truth together. Thanks.

Very true, but in all honesty we shouldn't be debating politics...we should be discussing positive topics, topics that bring us together not topics that divide us to the core.

As much as we debate and rip each other's throats here, nothing will be solved...the only thing that will result from political discussion is high blood pressure and stress.


The government wants us to debate politics, why?

So we divide each other...which is the root of the problem today, division in this country is so deep that it's at civil war like divisiveness.

Originally Posted by guerilla

Very true, but in all honesty we shouldn't be debating politics...we should be discussing positive topics, topics that bring us together not topics that divide us to the core.

As much as we debate and rip each other's throats here, nothing will be solved...the only thing that will result from political discussion is high blood pressure and stress.


The government wants us to debate politics, why?

So we divide each other...which is the root of the problem today, division in this country is so deep that it's at civil war like divisiveness.

The government wants us to debate? Since when?

Oh, yes, we have the right... But If we were all good little monkeys and decided on a candidate, they wouldn't bat an eye. If we all supported the war they'd just wink and say, "Super!"

In the end we're tearing ourselves apart- with a healthy dose of angst injected by the media, of course. Not that that's bad, though.

Division isn't a "problem", it's a necessary constituent of any society that seeks to progress.