Thread: And the stock market goes BOOM! CHRRRR!

Originally Posted by drewmandan

Shows what you know. This stock crash had absolutely nothing to do with cooked books. It was an entirely legal and legitimate crash.

Yes.

It has to do with the rest of the economy vooning.

Originally Posted by drewmandan

Might want to check your math, ace. I'm getting about $4,600 per worker. That's about 700,000,000,000 / 150,000,000.

er...wow im a little off
where the hell did i get that much

but still 700 billion is more than the entire war in iraq costs.

do u see the scope of it.

think about how much 4.6k means to the average american. With an income of 40 thousand you now have to pay an extra 10% to the government to pay for banks...

we shouldn't reward short term sighted ness. The stockmarket falling is just a way to put pressure on congress. These companies are just trying to embezzle money from the american people.

700 billion would really cause the american dollar to be absolutely worthless. It would mean that all your money in your bank is now worth substancially less because it has less buying power. do you see the problem with that?

Originally Posted by aceofspades

er...wow im a little off
where the hell did i get that much

but still 700 billion is more than the entire war in iraq costs.

do u see the scope of it.

think about how much 4.6k means to the average american. With an income of 40 thousand you now have to pay an extra 10% to the government to pay for banks...

we shouldn't reward short term sighted ness. The stockmarket falling is just a way to put pressure on congress. These companies are just trying to embezzle money from the american people.

700 billion would really cause the american dollar to be absolutely worthless. It would mean that all your money in your bank is now worth substancially less because it has less buying power. do you see the problem with that?

Yes, of course. But what really pisses me off is that if the government can really cough up 700 billion, they could use that money to cure cancer, send man to Mars, build an orbital tether, develop fusion, and probably end hunger, all at the same time.

Originally Posted by drewmandan

Yes, of course. But what really pisses me off is that if the government can really cough up 700 billion, they could use that money to cure cancer, send man to Mars, build an orbital tether, develop fusion, and probably end hunger, all at the same time.

Not the government. US...taxpayers would of had to of coughed up that 700 billion.

What did I tell ya! i posted about this happening months ago. Alex jones predicted it years ago. Coming oct 1st there will be US troops to police it's own citizens.... *sigh* yet still 85% of you don't think a fascist state will come... IT's pretty obvious where this is going.

Originally Posted by Dreamworld

There wouldn't be any other option.. The stock market is a staple of economy in general. We haven't even felt any financial blows.. your on the computer, you eat every day, and your electricity is being paid for isn't it?

Tomorrow is a new day.


Also, Lets all go buy stock and get rich. If anyone here thinks the U.S. economy isn't going to pick back up, you must be a fatalist. Once things get back on track, anyone who capitalizes on this dip is going to profit by several times what they pay.

NEW $630 Billion bailout ON TOP of the 700 billion

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...refer=worldwide

We are looking at over 1.3 trillion dollars. When you factor in the $25 billion bailout they just handed the car makers in the Iraq war spending bill, you now are greeted with almost 1.4 trillion dollars. This isn't stopping

Originally Posted by ranma187

What did I tell ya! i posted about this happening months ago. Alex jones predicted it years ago. Coming oct 1st there will be US troops to police it's own citizens.... *sigh* yet still 85% of you don't think a fascist state will come... IT's pretty obvious where this is going.

At least the bold bit is true.

Check here

I have a feeling that aceofspades used the 'British Billion' for his calculation. The American billion has 9 zeros - the British billion has 12.

Originally Posted by aceofspades

oh and u guys know nothing about whats really going on. 700 billion is close to half the nations annual budget (yes the whole god damn nation).

It's less than a third and near 5% of the nation's GDP.

but beyond that throwing 700 billion dollars into the economy will DESTROY the economy with mass inflation.

Destroy is a bit excessive. 5%, remember that. And it's going to start only as $250bn, which is maybe 1-2%, then $100bn later, another <1% increase, with the other $350bn for later if necessary. Any resulting inflation will be spread out, and the numbers aren't high enough to ruin the economy. I mean, what's the rate so far this year? I think the 12-mo difference in August was in the 5-6% range.

Originally Posted by Jeff777

Not the government. US...taxpayers would of had to of coughed up that 700 billion.

I don't recall hearing anything about a tax hike. I'm assuming the money is coming from the same place about 20% of the rest of the government's money comes from: lenders. There is a good chance the taxpayers won't really "lose" their investment in the end, and the government will get a good return on it. I think the deal is that they're buying the securities for fairly cheap, and in a normal economy they'd probably be worth more than their proposed purchase price.

Probably there will be a net loss to taxpayers, but it's somewhat likely that it won't be major - a few percentage points worth of interest over a few years. In the short-term the price tag is huge, but in the long-term it could be quite small.

Or the economy collapses and the paper is worthless, but in that case we're screwed anyway.

It's a fairly decent bet, although the long-term ramifications of yet another bailout aren't good. It's a logic the market runs on, and it's not healthy. But in this case it seems like the only real solution to a major meltdown in the credit markets and economy as a whole.

You can't win: too little government interference and the economy goes haywire; too much and it gets dependent and overly confident. But there's more to it than that, of course.

Originally Posted by ranma187

What did I tell ya! i posted about this happening months ago. Alex jones predicted it years ago. Coming oct 1st there will be US troops to police it's own citizens.... *sigh* yet still 85% of you don't think a fascist state will come... IT's pretty obvious where this is going.

Rofl, anyone could tell this economy was going in this direction. Well, looks like we only have tomorrow before we're all under Martial Law then, LOLOLOL.

LIKE OH MY /INSERT-GODLY-NAME-HERE/. WE'RE ALL GOING TO BE UNDER MILITARY CONTROL AT EXACTLY 12A.M. TONIGHT, WHAT WILL WE EVER DO! F.E.M.A. WILL START TAKING US TO THEIR DEATH CAMPS IN THE U.S.A. THAT THEY'VE SUPPOSEDLY BEEN BUILDING, YET THEY'VE BEEN AROUND HERE SINCE WORLD WAR II, LIKE OH NOES!

One Brigade is being sent in under orders to fuck with people . They've been tased as part of their training in order to develop apathy for their victims.

Originally Posted by DNK

It's less than a third and near 5% of the nation's GDP.
Destroy is a bit excessive. 5%, remember that. And it's going to start only as $250bn, which is maybe 1-2%, then $100bn later, another <1% increase, with the other $350bn for later if necessary. Any resulting inflation will be spread out, and the numbers aren't high enough to ruin the economy. I mean, what's the rate so far this year? I think the 12-mo difference in August was in the 5-6% range.
I don't recall hearing anything about a tax hike. I'm assuming the money is coming from the same place about 20% of the rest of the government's money comes from: lenders. There is a good chance the taxpayers won't really "lose" their investment in the end, and the government will get a good return on it. I think the deal is that they're buying the securities for fairly cheap, and in a normal economy they'd probably be worth more than their proposed purchase price.

Probably there will be a net loss to taxpayers, but it's somewhat likely that it won't be major - a few percentage points worth of interest over a few years. In the short-term the price tag is huge, but in the long-term it could be quite small.

Or the economy collapses and the paper is worthless, but in that case we're screwed anyway.

It's a fairly decent bet, although the long-term ramifications of yet another bailout aren't good. It's a logic the market runs on, and it's not healthy. But in this case it seems like the only real solution to a major meltdown in the credit markets and economy as a whole.

You can't win: too little government interference and the economy goes haywire; too much and it gets dependent and overly confident. But there's more to it than that, of course.

1. Near 5% of the GDP....how could u say JUST 5% of the gdp?
2. its just one more bad load. Just look where that got the banking industry when they said a few bad loans won't make a difference.
3. No the money is not coming from the lenders its coming from the treasury which means you are throwing an extra 700 billion into an already inflated economy....soon dollar bills will be cheaper than toilet paper finally my dream of wiping my ass with money and rolling around in it will come true
4. I don't understand it. Republicans are so "free market" and about "deregulation" and "small government" but its okay to give handouts to our major corporations and to not allow gay people to get married or women to get abortions. Hypocrites!
5. The market doesn't run on logic. It runs on major brokerage firms. I am perfectly happy that these companies are collapsing. It was of their own doing in the same way that enron collapsed...they are just looking at the short term and trying to make a quick buck. We shouldn't have been lending money to people who could not afford it.

Now im really glad this bill got shot down and I hope all other bailouts will follow suit. Let the market rule...some companies will get hurt but that is just the nature of things. Sure some banks will collapse but thats okay in the long term it will be better to not interfere.

We can't have it both ways. We should have regulated the markets and our regulators were not on the ball or paying attention to this mess.

If we do this bailout than we need to take ownership of these comapnies and have the companies government owned. After all its our money that we are using to buy their stocks.

Originally Posted by aceofspades

Do you people understand how much money 700 billion dollars. It is enough to give every taxpayer over the age of 18 468,000 dollars. Tat means that wit that kind of money we could pay off all of our car, student, house loans...

That statistic has been circulating the net, and it's actually wrong. It would only come out to 468 dollars per person.

Originally Posted by The Cusp

That statistic has been circulating the net, and it's actually wrong. It would only come out to 468 dollars per person.

$4,680, actually. I did the calculation myself. Maybe you should too.

Originally Posted by The Cusp

That statistic has been circulating the net, and it's actually wrong. It would only come out to 468 dollars per person.

its 4,680 besides i even admitted that it was a typo and i meant that.

So seriously who thinks its a good idea to do the largest subprime loan in history?

We already know that "we may be able to get some of it back" and that the American government has already been lent enough money. I think the bank of the tax payers needs to start recognizing the US's governments bad credit already. We really need to stop working off stated income with them.

Originally Posted by aceofspades

Near 5% of the GDP....how could u say JUST 5% of the gdp?

Maybe because the financial sector, which is about 20% of GDP is imploding. Maybe because the DJIA dropped 7% in one day, and is teetering on a much steeper fall. Maybe because the actual loss could be much larger than 5% if the financial sector breaks down.

No the money is not coming from the lenders its coming from the treasury which means you are throwing an extra 700 billion into an already

My understanding is that this is going to be funded like any other budget item. The treasury doesn't just start printing money when the budget goes into the red, else inflation would be massive based on that alone. Much of this is due to foreign government willing to buy US debt, rather than having it all just put on Fed accounts and getting monetized. It will certainly not all be monetized, I believe most is not right now thanks largely to China and other foreign banks and buyers. I'm not going to downplay the fact that this will be inflationary, but wiping your ass with $100 bills is still going to be only for the rich. It will be rough, inflation-wise, but survivable.

RE: other points...

The republicans aren't free market anymore than they're small government. They're pro-business and that's about it. Dems, not much better on the last count, obviously not free market or small government, but at least they pay their bills.

I tend to agree that the firms that messed up should fail, and spectacularly. I tend to agree that the entire economy needs a massive restructuring - it has been going down an unsustainable path of unaccountability for a long time, and that has accelerated to insane heights in the past year or two. I'm not willing to gamble a depression for that point.

Originally Posted by aceofspades

soon dollar bills will be cheaper than toilet paper finally my dream of wiping my ass with money and rolling around in it will come true

Children, this is why fullstops are important.

Originally Posted by DNK

Maybe because the financial sector, which is about 20% of GDP is imploding. Maybe because the DJIA dropped 7% in one day, and is teetering on a much steeper fall. Maybe because the actual loss could be much larger than 5% if the financial sector breaks down.
My understanding is that this is going to be funded like any other budget item. The treasury doesn't just start printing money when the budget goes into the red, else inflation would be massive based on that alone. Much of this is due to foreign government willing to buy US debt, rather than having it all just put on Fed accounts and getting monetized. It will certainly not all be monetized, I believe most is not right now thanks largely to China and other foreign banks and buyers. I'm not going to downplay the fact that this will be inflationary, but wiping your ass with $100 bills is still going to be only for the rich. It will be rough, inflation-wise, but survivable.

RE: other points...

The republicans aren't free market anymore than they're small government. They're pro-business and that's about it. Dems, not much better on the last count, obviously not free market or small government, but at least they pay their bills.

I tend to agree that the firms that messed up should fail, and spectacularly. I tend to agree that the entire economy needs a massive restructuring - it has been going down an unsustainable path of unaccountability for a long time, and that has accelerated to insane heights in the past year or two. I'm not willing to gamble a depression for that point.

so wiping your ass with $5 dollar bills will be for the middle class?

Yup lets just borrow some more money its not like we won't pay them back

Besides we have 2 years before they can do anything to us and by than bush will be out of office and my neighborhood park will be "Bank owned by the Emperor's Bank of the People's Republic of China"

Than I can buy it for a couple bucks at an auction!

Originally Posted by ranma187

What did I tell ya! i posted about this happening months ago. Alex jones predicted it years ago. Coming oct 1st there will be US troops to police it's own citizens.... *sigh* yet still 85% of you don't think a fascist state will come... IT's pretty obvious where this is going.

Well, it's 3p.m. Central time, I've yet to hear any news about the U.S. being under Martial Law. Which time zone are they going by? Since the prophecy has obviously failed for this October 1st are we pushing it up to the 2009 October 1st now? Haha, maybe perhaps it's full of shit and isn't going to happen anytime soon. Yeah, I think that's more like it.

Originally Posted by nitsuJ

Well, it's 3p.m. Central time, I've yet to hear any news about the U.S. being under Martial Law. Which time zone are they going by? Since the prophecy has obviously failed for this October 1st are we pushing it up to the 2009 October 1st now? Haha, maybe perhaps it's full of shit and isn't going to happen anytime soon. Yeah, I think that's more like it.

There was no "prophecy" of martial law on oct 1st. An army combat unit was deployed to U.S. soil for active duty on October 1st. This really happened; look up at the link I posted; it will direct you to the army website.

I read it, I don't see any reason to worry about it.

Originally Posted by nitsuJ

I read it, I don't see any reason to worry about it.

And if you don't plan on standing up for yourself in a time of crisis, you shouldn't need to.

well the bill passed today and right after markets started going down.

Jitsun... I never said martial law would happen october first. Which proves my point that people like you drewdanman, and others. read one word of what i say, not the whole thing. don't even bother to read any materials i provide. and then you guys generalise me as a crazy conspiracy nut. Maybe you guys should look around in the world you live in instead of picking on me. i mean, It's so obvious The US is going to fall under a fascist state. Pretty soon a new currency will be introduced. Which is what hitler did.

Since 911 you've had 10 thing happen in the us that are all in common with Other democracies being destroyed.

1. Invoke terrifying internal and external threat - 9/11

2. Gulag - Guantanamo, at first it's done to make the people feel safer but slowly develops to start tagging more and more people, and torturing them.

3. Paramilitary - Black Water, model in plan to use Blackwater for state emergencies in the US.

4. Home Surveillance - Information fishing and such to make you think you're being watched.

5. Harass Citizens' Groups - FBI agents pose as activists in protests in order to provoke riots and arrests; they also infiltrate left leaning meetings and report on them.

6. Arbitrary catch and release - People get listed for peace marches and banned from flights. Muslims with mistaken identities get their charges dropped but still get arrested regularly.

7. Target Key Individuals - Government has pressured lawyers and universities with their jobs, sort of a Palin tactic.

8. Control the Press - Arrests of US journalists are at an all time high.

9. Associate dissent with treason - Use of terms like patriotism and terrorism are spun, Bush has ability to name anyone a enemy combatant.

10. Suspend Laws - Patriot Act, Defense Authorization Act, Military Commissions Act __________________