Thread: Hip-hop and Homophobia

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

Right obviously it's the music of the stupid because you don't like it, therefore how could it possibly have any value to anyone else?

Even better, it's obviously music for stupid people because it's made by black people and they're only good at playing basketball and selling drugs and have no value in society. Rap music reflects the deep design flaws in black society and their genetics in general proving their only proper place in a society is as slaves.

Listen to Immortal Technique, he's hella good.

But I agree with plg6067, it's not against gays, it's mostly just a general insult against people. When trying to rhyme, any insult will do and gay and faggot rhyme a lot more often then others. I've said faggot while free styling. I actually say faggot all the time. I'm not justifying it, but out of habit when I'm pissed it slips out of my mouth with no intention of hating gay people or offending anyone. Again, I'm not saying it's okay just because I do, I'm just saying our culture still uses words like gay and faggot in a generally insulting manner. The rappers are just using the vocabulary that's around them, like we all do. It takes a conscious effort to change your vernacular, most people don't feel the need because they don't see the impact of associations nor the consequences they have on our society. I mean come on, black people still call themselves niggers, why would they stop using the word faggot? They do it to claim power over a word that used to have power over them. Why don't you try taking the power back for the word faggot?

My point is, rap music is good. You are wrong, Ninja, just... look I'll try to be friends with you, okay? ...Nope can't do it. Sorry, you're just too, too... ugh.

Rap is the music of the stupid because it only talks about stupid things, and if it ever dares to move to a topic that isn't completely retarded it still fails horribly because they use words like...Oh what was it, faggot and gay to demean people, and fuck, and whore, and slut, and bitch, and superman dat hoe...and...various other crimes against the English language. Do not get me wrong, I don't mind a few curse words, or playing with English every now and then, but an entire song, and every time? The saddest part is if they remove either of these two things which comprise the greater percentage of popular rap songs, it loses its draw to the majority of its crowd, which is why it is the music of the stupid.

As for "taking the word back" of faggot...That system is ridiculous and the only reason I don't find it to be a completely foolish tactic for black people to do is because it didn't start out as a word to demean people, but instead to describe them as what they were, black and/or a slave.

But if I had to pick a reason for why "taking the word faggot back" fails the most it would be because, unlike black people, the word faggot isn't just used to demean the people it is referring to. While every Niggar insult that makes sense must be directed towards a black person, insults against gay people are more often directed at straight people, or people who they actually believe are straight but may or may not be straight. So in order for the "take it back" mentality to work, we would have to somehow figure out a way to make sure people only call gay people faggots.

The strategy of "taking the word back" is not as good as the technique of not caring in the first place. If the word means nothing to the person you're using it against, then the purpose the person has fails, and they can see it, and it will make them no longer wish to use that word because it doesn't incite the response that they were trying to get from you. Which is why the "take it back" mentality fails even for the word niggar. You see, the power a non-black person has when calling a black person a niggar still exists. "It is our word you can't use it." Being told that will not stop me from using it if I wanted to. In fact they will be even more angry because they think "that is my word."


As for the part in bold. Every insult that involves calling a person a faggot or gay in a negative way is an insult against all gay people because it is insulting the person by stating that they are gay, which implies that being gay is bad enough to be used as an insult.

Back to the rap music topic. I have heard from a variety of sources that the rap music from the past was actually much better than modern day music, which I don't know if it is because of the fact that you are more drawn to what you first heard (as in nothing new ever feels as good as it did when it was actually new to you), or if it is because it was actually good.

I agree with some of what's been said, but that's just a little too harsh sandform; I feel the need to add this.

EDIT:this ones better

Originally Posted by stonedape

I agree with some of what's been said, but that's just a little too harsh sandform; I feel the need to add this.

EDIT:this ones better

Nice. Listen to this, this is my personal fav and also listen to it when I'm jogging.



And yes Gentlemen...the above "stupid" video is classified as rap -_-.

Originally Posted by Sandform

Rap is the music of the stupid because it only talks about stupid things, and if it ever dares to move to a topic that isn't completely retarded it still fails horribly because they use words like...Oh what was it, faggot and gay to demean people, and fuck, and whore, and slut, and bitch, and superman dat hoe...and...various other crimes against the English language. Do not get me wrong, I don't mind a few curse words, or playing with English every now and then, but an entire song, and every time? The saddest part is if they remove either of these two things which comprise the greater percentage of popular rap songs, it loses its draw to the majority of its crowd, which is why it is the music of the stupid.

You have to see it from the right perspective. If your ancestors were forced to learn a language against their will with a new, foreign culture imposed upon them, how much respect for that culture would you have?

And furthermore, Immortal Technique is a very popular rapper, and his lyrics have a point.

As for "taking the word back" of faggot...That system is ridiculous and the only reason I don't find it to be a completely foolish tactic for black people to do is because it didn't start out as a word to demean people, but instead to describe them as what they were, black and/or a slave.

But if I had to pick a reason for why "taking the word faggot back" fails the most it would be because, unlike black people, the word faggot isn't just used to demean the people it is referring to. While every Niggar insult that makes sense must be directed towards a black person, insults against gay people are more often directed at straight people, or people who they actually believe are straight but may or may not be straight. So in order for the "take it back" mentality to work, we would have to somehow figure out a way to make sure people only call gay people faggots.

Not so, during the 50s and 60s, even as late as the 70s, nigger was used to refer to something stupid, it was associated with the shittiest aspects of life in a general way. It would refer to a person with no values, no self respect. Not just a black person. It changed, it became politically incorrect and the next generation presumed it used to refer only to black people. The same could happen to the word faggot.

The strategy of "taking the word back" is not as good as the technique of not caring in the first place. If the word means nothing to the person you're using it against, then the purpose the person has fails, and they can see it, and it will make them no longer wish to use that word because it doesn't incite the response that they were trying to get from you. Which is why the "take it back" mentality fails even for the word niggar. You see, the power a non-black person has when calling a black person a niggar still exists. "It is our word you can't use it." Being told that will not stop me from using it if I wanted to. In fact they will be even more angry because they think "that is my word."

Again you don't understand the history of these words. They both transformed. They became broad insults, so people used them without meaning to be bigots themselves. They were just part of the vernacular like calling someone an asshole. The negative effect of these words is the association they carry. The fact that people used faggot to refer to something they didn't like created an association with gay people and all negative aspects of life, intentional or not.

As for the part in bold. Every insult that involves calling a person a faggot or gay in a negative way is an insult against all gay people because it is insulting the person by stating that they are gay, which implies that being gay is bad enough to be used as an insult.

So first you say you don't care, then you say when someone uses the word they're insulting all gay people. Which is it? Do you get offended when someone's car breaks down and they start ranting about how gay their car is? It's still an association, which is why I personally think that we need to change our vernacular as a society, but you said you gay people should respond in apathy. I don't see how that helps, because it'll still be used in the example I just described and many other similar examples. Rappers wills till use the word when words like "asshole" and "cunt" just don't rhyme. My point has remained the same, most people are not intending to directly insult a gay person when they use the word faggot, but they do. It's not like responding in apathy is going to make them think "Huh, I guess I didn't hurt his feelings after all so I give up."

Back to the rap music topic. I have heard from a variety of sources that the rap music from the past was actually much better than modern day music, which I don't know if it is because of the fact that you are more drawn to what you first heard (as in nothing new ever feels as good as it did when it was actually new to you), or if it is because it was actually good.

Hip hop from back in the day had no edge, it had no harmony that got your head bobbing. I'd say the music is better now. The lyrics are somewhat worse.

EDIT: And for the record, all the music that makes top ten lists sucks. All music, allllllll music. On rock and alternative stations, you get bands like Taking Back Sunday and Dashboard Confessional and other whiny emo bands with tangled harmonies and annoying repetition. Any real fan of any genre of music typically HATES the most popular songs of that genre.

Okay, most rap music is for the stupid. I don't say that because I personally hate it, it's because the majority of it glamorizes criminal activity. If being a pimp, hooker, drug dealer, murderer, gang member... is glamorized in any way, then it's written by and for stupid people. I know that there are also Will Smiths and P.Diddys (or whatever he calls himself now) out there too, but they aren't the majority.

And immediately saying I'm racist because I think rap is for stupid is quiet a big stretch. I've always loved Soul and Jazz music, which are primarily black music styles.

I have a black friend, therefore I'm not racist -_-

But seriously, the majority of ALL music sucks, at least the popular stuff. Seriously, when you watch MTV does a single song come on that you like? Popular rap sings about violence and disrespect and all sorts of socially devolving things, but at least it has a tempo you can get into. And besides, Britney Spears is still popular, and she's out there glamorizing being a crazy slut and being the centerpiece of a one-girl orgy. And that's not even the worst, at least she hires some good people to do the beats. These dime a dozen alternative bands that get on the radio sing all have the same unoriginal lyrics, horrible progression and just generally suck massive sweaty balls. I'm sorry, that was not meant to be an insult against gay people. But they're so gaaaaaaaaaay and I don't mean like they're feminine or whiny, I mean they just suck at music, and people like them. And they fucking suck at music... they just suck.

Being popular doesn't have anything to do with whether or not something is bad or not. Walmart sells more clothes than Saks, it doesn't make their clothes better. MTV can go fuck themselves.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

If being a pimp, hooker, drug dealer, murderer, gang member... is glamorized in any way, then it's written by and for stupid people.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Thing is, though the subjects of pimps, drugs, sex etc. aren't unoriginal to mainstream rap...other genres of music intertwine these various seemingly crude subjects in their rhymes as well. Nickleback for instance...I love that fucking band. But they have a song called "Rockstar" which highlights the "perks" and "benefits" of being a rockstar...such as popping pills, cheap girls, not eating to stay skinny etc. If we are judging genres by lyrics and content alone, then the genre of rock (because of this song and more songs out there like it) is entirely stupid. Or as you said "mostly" stupid. I don't think most rap is stupid, I think most of the rap music that makes it to your ears is stupid. Don't think I'm completely oblivious to the vulgarity of rap music though. As I said in an earlier post...I stopped watching BET over 4 years ago because of this trending devolution of hip-hop. Like every genre...a weeding process is necessary to filter out what you like from that you don't.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

And immediately saying I'm racist because I think rap is for stupid is quiet a big stretch. I've always loved Soul and Jazz music, which are primarily black music styles.

If this bit was aimed at me, I do apologize...I don't recall calling you racist though. If you took my earlier posts as an implication that you were, once again I do apologize...that was not what I meant at all.

I don't understand how anyone could listen to rap in the first place, regaurdless of the lyrics. Any music where it's just someone singing terribly with headache music in the background is bound to fail. That shit is so annoying

#Thumpthumpthump# "FhhmnHmmzFmnhm" "Ahh-oooh"

>.<

Originally Posted by A Roxxor

Any music where it's just someone singing terribly with headache music in the background is bound to fail. That shit is so annoying

I take it you're not a fan of rock and/or metal music then.

No way. I love Rock and Metal. Hence I hate rap and Country.

Originally Posted by A Roxxor

I don't understand how anyone could listen to rap in the first place, regaurdless of the lyrics. Any music where it's just someone singing terribly with headache music in the background is bound to fail. That shit is so annoying

#Thumpthumpthump# "FhhmnHmmzFmnhm" "Ahh-oooh"

>.<

In the first place that's not what rap was. Rap started out as poetry being read over a beat.

Rap music just got popular, whenever something gets popular in america it goes straight to hell. Same thing happened to rock. Rock sucks nowadays, you gotta dig if your ever gonna find anything in this pile of shit.

Seems like most people in this forum are refering to gangsta rap, which is entirely different. Thats like saying rocks sucks because emo sucks.

Originally Posted by stonedape

In the first place that's not what rap was. Rap started out as poetry being read over a beat.

That is real music, generic rap that is popular now is not. I still hear that style every once in a while, but it's confined to new england coffee shops late at night and has become as elitist as foreign films and black and white photography. There was a great guy that I heard last time I was at Cornell, I think his name was Jimmy Soul or something like that.

Originally Posted by stonedape

In the first place that's not what rap was. Rap started out as poetry being read over a beat.

I don't even like that.

I listen to stuff that sounds epic, not depressing or faggy. Poetry read to a beat is blfm.

Originally Posted by Jeff777

other genres of music intertwine these various seemingly crude subjects in their rhymes as well.

True, but there is a huge difference between "Cop-killer" by Ice-T and "I shot the sheriff" and "renegade" by Clapton and Styx.

No, you didn't call me racist. Omnius Deus did:

ously music for stupid people because it's made by black people and they're only good at playing basketball and selling drugs and have no value in society. Rap music reflects the deep design flaws in black society and their genetics in general proving their only proper place in a society is as slaves.

Wasn't there some big to-do where Eminem got into trouble for saying faggot so much (but not any of the other words?), and so to make amends he and Elton partied or something? I definitely believe that this occurred during my youth.

I dislike the majority of rap except where it's funny, or when I'm in the mood. But I was reading on CNN or some other website the other day about some guy who raps about the environment. Probably the worst result I've heard of from global warming My lily-white ass would take the badass mofo stuff over that any day. But just to throw it out there that, well, it is out there.

Yeah Eminem performed with Elton John partially to make amends for his usage of the word faggot. However, after the show he continued to use "homophobic" words in his songs proving my point. Nyah.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

Being popular doesn't have anything to do with whether or not something is bad or not.

No, but it has a lot to do with what else is pumped into society, through the media, and is huge reason why you made the generalization "rap is for the stupid."

The more degenerative rap is popular, the more of it gets expedited to the masses. The more of it that is shoveled out, the less of the alternative versions of the art-form are given attention. They, then, slip into obscurity and, eventually, you have people completely unaware of that other side jumping up with statements like "rap is for the stupid."

Originally Posted by A Roxxor

No way. I love Rock and Metal. Hence I hate rap and Country.

That makes absolutely no sense, whatsoever.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

True, but there is a huge difference between "Cop-killer" by Ice-T and "I shot the sheriff" and "renegade" by Clapton and Styx.

And there is a big difference between Talib Kweli's "Memories Live" and Buckcherry's "Crazy Bitch." I don't quite see your point.

No way. I love Rock and Metal. Hence I hate rap and Country.

That's a stupid conclusion to draw, it's just being polarized... I can listen to Rap, Rock, Metal and Country.. Though less country than anything else.

Open your eyes, people become so dead set on their music being the only good kind and writing everything else off as trash. It's just obnoxious.

So one day all the black people on the Earth got together and made rock. Ok. LOLZ.

Originally Posted by Sandform

So one day all the black people on the Earth got together and made rock. Ok. LOLZ.

Actually man, have you heard of blues music. It was started by BLACK people and that is what started rock.

Also here's a little history for you:

Rock-and-Roll (räk'n roll') n. first so used (1951) by Alan Freed, Cleveland disc jockey, taken from the song "My Baby Rocks Me with a Steady Roll". The use of rock, roll, rock and roll, etc., with reference to sexual intercourse, is traditional in blues, a form of popular music that evolved in the 1950's from rhythm and blues, characterized by the use of electric guitars, a strong rhythm with an accent on the offbeat, and youth-oriented lyrics.