Thread: Black History Month is Racist

Originally Posted by Jeff777

My guess/answer would be the most obvious one. Does it bother you though that racism from a non-white to a white is considered "reverse racism"?

it bothers me a little because to me it implies that we are always responsible for being racist and its "out of ordinary" for another race.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Oh, and tkdyo, as I always say: "Reverse racism is still racism."
[/Edit]

exactly.

Originally Posted by Sandform

Do you not think there aren't plenty of white people of historical significance not mentioned?

Never said there weren't. But I also think that those white people having been left out was not due to a long-standing problem of discrimination - which America is slowly getting over, though still exists, no matter how much people want to ignore it.

Originally Posted by Sandform

Perhaps you haven't been in school in a long while but schools do currently have whole sections devoted to things that cover many black figures. What you use black history month for and what other people use it for aren't exactly the same thing.

I believe I touched on this earlier in the thread. I understand that awareness is changing, and the problem is becoming less and less of a problem, but (and this may come as a shock) it is arguably because of things like Black History month, that Black History has evolved from esoteric information into the mainstream.

I've already said that things are changing, and that, ideally, there wouldn't be a need to highlight black history in a separatist way. It may even phase out in the future, who knows. The initial argument was that Black History month was racist, though. I think what "I use black history month" for and what "other people use black history month for" is different in your eyes, because really, how often do you sit down with a black person and have them explain to you what black history month means to them, as opposed to taking a few things they say out of the context of what they are actually thinking?

[Edit: and I'm not saying that we (blacks) all look at BHM the same way, by any means. I'm simply trying to highlight the fundamental purpose of the month. It's been perverted, sure, as all things do. But this thread is about the concept, at it's base, not what extremists want to try to spin it as.]

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

I think what "I use black history month" for and what "other people use black history month for" is different in your eyes, because really, how often do you sit down with a black person and have them explain to you what black history month means to them, as opposed to taking a few things they say out of the context of what they are actually thinking?

I should point out, I didn't mean "what you use for" and "they use for" in the sense that you were the odd duckling in the black history celebrators.

I only mean that things like black history month are easily corrupted and easily used to spread racism. If a person has a mind to do it, it isn't hard to do.

Originally Posted by Sandform

I should point out, I didn't mean "what you use for" and "they use for" in the sense that you were the odd duckling in the black history celebrators.

Oh, I know. I didn't think you were necessarily singling me out, but I was just stating that there are probably a lot more that understand BHM for what it really is than you may be aware of. That's another reason why I felt that video was an unfair depiction, in relation to the thoughts in this thread.

Originally Posted by Sandform

I only mean that things like black history month are easily corrupted and easily used to spread racism. If a person has a mind to do it, it isn't hard to do.

What isn't easily corrupted, though, by those who have an agenda to do so? I don't think it's fair to demonize something because it can be corrupted or interpreted to be something it's not meant to be. If that was the case, there would be a logical argument against almost anything.

Originally Posted by tkdyo

it bothers me a little because to me it implies that we are always responsible for being racist and its "out of ordinary" for another race.

I completely agree. I suppose it's just one of those things that just "stuck" in society. Like how blacks are chicken lovers and noone else visits KFC.

lol, mmm kfc. I guess asians love it too. It is as common in korea and taiwan as McD's

Originally Posted by Jeff777

Howie, I love you...but this post requires no pondering on my part. For one why make "United negro college funds" have the spotlight? So many people focus on those things when there are Indian college funds and scholar ships, Mexican ones etc. Did you read my post when I said my debate teacher in my sophomore year in high school wanted to assist me in getting an Indian scholarship since I'm part Indian? Blacks don't have the only institutions created to assist minorities.

I don't know why I'm being chastised for bringing concepts from the black culture up when that is what we are discussing. It is not that I am agreeing with it or that I think that it is right. Black, Indian, Mexican or whatever. My point was that I believe that by separating oneself in this manner ultimalty creates segregation. Which in turn does leads many to feel animosity towards whichever group is doing it. In that instance I was referring to blacks.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

There are things like "Black Spring Break" and "Black College Reunion." That they celebrate down here in Florida (Probably other places too, but I don't know.) Things like THOSE perpetuate the problem that you're talking about. They widen the divide. Unfortunately, people like to try to throw Black History month in with that kind of unnecessary crap...simply because it has the big buzzword "Black" in it.

This was my point Jeff and O. I was not intending to imply that Black history month is wrong. I see how it is a sensitive issue and I understand your point more thoroughly now. More about it just getting thrown into the mix, ultimately taking away from its intended purpose.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

The problem is that so many people are misinterpreting the purpose of Black History month as being something that it's not, and refusing to acknowledge the fact. As such, there is no possible way to counter the opening argument.

Acknowledging that any race or culture that tries to separate themselves from a society will be viewed by many as an attempt at their own bias segregation.
It is pretty evident in this thread that even BHM creates this in some cases.
Misinterpreted sure, but isn't all bias stemmed from ignorant misinterpretations and misunderstandings of a group?

There is a Native American history month, I believe.


I want my WHITE HISTORY month.

Originally Posted by nitsuJ

There is a Native American history month, I believe.


I want my WHITE HISTORY month.

White people are told that we have presidents day. We don't deserve a month because apparently every month is white history month. I don't know why we are told to have presidents day... Seems rather pointless for people to tell us that. Even more so now that we have a president who isn't white but black.

It's not so much about "every month being white history month." It's about awareness of white history being far and away the most dominant perspective of American history that has ever been acknowledged. For some illogical reason, people get jealous that the packaging of Black History awareness into one month where it's talked about more - and given the attention it hardly ever had - has a label ("Black History Month") that they now want one too, even though it would be helping hinder the original purpose of BHM. They don't look at that, though. No one wants to acknowledge it. All it's about is "Uh...yeah...you know that Black History month thing?? Well I want one too, damnit!", regardless of there actually being a perfectly good reason for BHM having come into existence.

Excuse the analogy, but it's like a little rich kid, who has a toy chest the size of Manhattan, crying foul because his parents gave the little impoverished boy down the street a PSP for Christmas, but didn't give one to their son - that being one of the few toys he doesn't already have. Instead of acknowledging the fact that he has almost every toy in the world to play with, and the other boy barely has any, he's just mad that they gave someone else a toy he didn't have.

"Oh, so he gets the PSP?? That should have been mine, first! So buy me one! Buy me one, now!"

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

It's not so much about "every month being white history month." It's about awareness of white history being far and away the most dominant perspective of American history that has ever been acknowledged. For some illogical reason, people get jealous that the packaging of Black History awareness into one month where it's talked about more - and given the attention it hardly ever had - has a label ("Black History Month") that they now want one too, even though it would be helping hinder the original purpose of BHM. They don't look at that, though. No one wants to acknowledge it. All it's about is "Uh...yeah...you know that Black History month thing?? Well I want one too, damnit!", regardless of there actually being a perfectly good reason for BHM having come into existence.

Excuse the analogy, but it's like a little rich kid, who has a toy chest the size of Manhattan, crying foul because his parents gave the little impoverished boy down the street a PSP for Christmas, but didn't give one to their son - that being one of the few toys he doesn't already have. Instead of acknowledging the fact that he has almost every toy in the world to play with, and the other boy barely has any, he's just mad that they gave someone else a toy he didn't have.

"Oh, so he gets the PSP?? That should have been mine, first! So buy me one! Buy me one, now!"

There is not a perfectly good reason for Black History Month to exist. Black history is covered thoroughly in regular history classes. Your analogy would be more correct if you had said the following.

The rich kid had some toys, then the other kid got some toys 'because' the rich kid had some toys and not him, and then later on the rich kid shared his toys and then the poor kid had more toys than the rich kid.


When white people say things like why isn't there a white history month, we don't actually mean we want one, we mean we're tired of the other pointless months.

Originally Posted by Sandform

There is not a perfectly good reason for Black History Month to exist. Black history is covered thoroughly in regular history classes. Your analogy would be more correct if you had said the following.

The rich kid had some toys, then the other kid got some toys 'because' the rich kid had some toys and not him, and then later on the rich kid shared his toys and then the poor kid had more toys than the rich kid.


When white people say things like why isn't there a white history month, we don't actually mean we want one, we mean we're tired of the other pointless months.

As I said before, though, I believe awareness of Black History is growing. You imply "share" as if it's all completely equal now. It's gaining ground, be equal? Absolutely not. What percentage of American's are actually in school? How many have either already graduated, decades ago - when Black History was not nearly as integrated in the curriculum as it is now? How many dropped out before really getting into the subject? How many will drop out, before really getting into the subject?

All things being considered, it's still overwhelmingly lop-sided. Honestly, when things get to be more equalized, I'd personally like to see BHM phased out. It will then be pointless. But right now, someone telling me is all equal, in that respect, has about as much weight as their telling me racism is dead. The problem usually seems minimal or non-existent, when it's not one that really affects you.

Wow, guys, I only posted the video because I was on Youtube watching a completely unrelated video and I saw a funny sounding video in the 'related videos' section. I thought it was funny and remotely related so I decided to share. I had no idea a simple video would rouse so much anger. Some people are saying that I personally offended them by posting a random video. Wow, that's what I call unstable. But if the video is too dangerous/scary/upsetting to be posted here, go ahead and delete it.

I just find this whole thing hilarious. I was actually worried no one would watch the video, meaning I had wasted the time it took to post it, lol.

Originally Posted by drewmandan

Wow, guys, I only posted the video because I was on Youtube watching a completely unrelated video and I saw a funny sounding video in the 'related videos' section. I thought it was funny and remotely related so I decided to share. I had no idea a simple video would rouse so much anger. Some people are saying that I personally offended them by posting a random video. Wow, that's what I call unstable. But if the video is too dangerous/scary/upsetting to be posted here, go ahead and delete it.

I just find this whole thing hilarious. I was actually worried no one would watch the video, meaning I had wasted the time it took to post it, lol.

Well, think about it. Taking your usual posting style into consideration, I wouldn't call assuming that such was done intentionally - especially when it actually is a strong piece of propaganda that you said you used because you figured it was relevant - as being unstable. I would call it logical.

If you simply weren't aware enough to realize what kind of reaction the video might receive, after views on this particular topic have been expressed, maybe there's really no chance of your seeing my position on BHM. If you didn't mean anything by it, then oh well. No worries. But, in all honesty, I think you'd be a little more cognizant.

Let people celebrate thier freedom and overcoming adversity.
Why whinge about it?

Is it nor far better for people to be happy and celebrating, than the endless wars and clashes between groups due to minor irrelevant differences?

If it makes people feel good, then I dont see any harm in it.

If it bothers you so much, try and organise an event for your own cultural background. Focus on something positive rather than look for the negatives.

Originally Posted by drewmandan

Wow, guys, I only posted the video because I was on Youtube watching a completely unrelated video and I saw a funny sounding video in the 'related videos' section. I thought it was funny and remotely related so I decided to share. I had no idea a simple video would rouse so much anger. Some people are saying that I personally offended them by posting a random video. Wow, that's what I call unstable. But if the video is too dangerous/scary/upsetting to be posted here, go ahead and delete it.

I just find this whole thing hilarious. I was actually worried no one would watch the video, meaning I had wasted the time it took to post it, lol.

You said you agreed with parts..?

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This is something I have always felt was strange. While I feel bad for any people who have been oppressed if you look at it realistically every race has been oppressed at one time or another. It doesn't matter what ethnicity you are it happens. We used to joke around that there was a BET channel but no CET (Caucasian entertainment channel) because if one was made their would be riots and lawsuits until the end of time. It is a double standard. Not one that people should have to endure. After I didn't oppress black people and I didn't own or endorse slavery - I was born in 1980! Seriously though I have more important things to worry about anymore, while I see the double standard I know that life is NOT fair no matter how much we wish it was. It's just too bad.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

If you didn't mean anything by it, then oh well. No worries. But, in all honesty, I think you'd be a little more cognizant.

Two things in response: First of all, I have never, in my entire life, seen a non-pornographic internet video rouse such a pure emotional response out of people. Honestly, I was just plain surprised to see the reactions it got. I had a total 'WTF?' moment. Because normally if people disagree with the views expressed, they stop watching the damn video. They don't keep watching it and then start crying or something. Geezus.

Second, I put a disclaimer on my post that addressed any concern you may have had about my intentions. Did you read it?

Originally Posted by O'nus

You said you agreed with parts..?

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I sort of skipped through bits, but I agreed with the sentiment that a lot of white people don't know history and all that. Or maybe not whites in general, but I have found in my own experiences that the people who are pro-Israel tend to be idiots. But anyway...

Let me make this clear: As an anarchist and objectivist, I don't like war, or patriotism, or any of that. I think it's all bullshit, hence why I said I don't agree with the video. BUT, you must admit, even if patriotism is bullshit, one person calling another person less patriotic for some stupid reason needs to be called out. So even though the black dude explaining his patriotism is stupid, I agree that, if we view the contention that one is un-patriotic as a more general insult, he was in his rights to defend himself. Hopefully you understand what I mean.

Originally Posted by drewmandan

Second, I put a disclaimer on my post that addressed any concern you may have had about my intentions. Did you read it?

You must realize that you're reputation (as far as I know) is of a relatively antagonistic nature coupled with the fact that you said you agreed with some parts. It needed some clearing up and you've done well to do so.

I sort of skipped through bits, but I agreed with the sentiment that a lot of white people don't know history and all that. Or maybe not whites in general, but I have found in my own experiences that the people who are pro-Israel tend to be idiots. But anyway...

I am glad to see you say people in general do not know there history rather than whites specifically..

Let me make this clear: As an anarchist and objectivist, I don't like war, or patriotism, or any of that. I think it's all bullshit, hence why I said I don't agree with the video. BUT, you must admit, even if patriotism is bullshit, one person calling another person less patriotic for some stupid reason needs to be called out. So even though the black dude explaining his patriotism is stupid, I agree that, if we view the contention that one is un-patriotic as a more general insult, he was in his rights to defend himself. Hopefully you understand what I mean.

I understand that you mean to say comparing patriotism is stupid.

Although, the women only asked how much he loved his country. I don't know if there is more to this video, but I get the idea that she is asking because he, at one time defends his patriotism, but on the other hand talks about how abusive the government is. It's a mixed message that a lot of minority groups make - "it's a white economy, don't support it, it's manipulative" juxtaposed with "i love my country, my fellowmen" etc. I understand that is likely that they love there fellow human rather than the country, but this just goes to explain her question for asking about his patriotism.

All in all, the guy is a complete asshole for discussion purposes and only ruins things and image of black people. Fundamentalists and zealots are always unproductive.

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Originally Posted by O'nus

All in all, the guy is a complete asshole for discussion purposes and only ruins things and image of black people.

I'm curious as to why you said this. Do you make out one asshole's actions to be a representation of that person's entire race? If so then by that alone...would me seeing a white guy wearing a mullet, sporting the confederate flag while wearing a wife beater and being hardly familiar with the English language be an accurate representation of the white race? Or me seeing a British person with crooked teeth and assuming dental care in Britain is in dire straits. First off, don't get it twisted...I'm not trying to paint you in any light...I'm merely asking if you see a person and consciously (or unconsciously) formulate assumptions about that person's race.

For what it's worth, I do this from time to time (unwittingly and often unconsciously) and am trying to get out of that primitive mindset.

Originally Posted by Jeff777

I'm curious as to why you said this. Do you make out one asshole's actions to be a representation of that person's entire race?

No, I don't, that's my point. My concern is that others will think that due to association and that is why I say it can taint an image.

Although, a smart individual ought to know that every race and every person can be an asshole.

If so then by that alone...would me seeing a white guy wearing a mullet, sporting the confederate flag while wearing a wife beater and being hardly familiar with the English language be an accurate representation of the white race? Or me seeing a British person with crooked teeth and assuming dental care in Britain is in dire straits. First off, don't get it twisted...I'm not trying to paint you in any light...I'm merely asking if you see a person and consciously (or unconsciously) formulate assumptions about that person's race.

Everyone does - this is just the vice of the human psyche. It is up to each individual to learn and elucidate their knowledge of other races in order to eliminate prejudices and allow for learning.

For what it's worth, I do this from time to time (unwittingly and often unconsciously) and am trying to get out of that primitive mindset.

I understand that. Believe me, it is far too often that I am told that I am racist and I spend far too much time explaining how I am far from racist. However, I am still inclined to make some pre-judgments of people just like anyone else. For example, "You have a job interview with Jacob, he's a black 18 year old" you will have assumptions, whether you like to or not, about what he will be like. Compare the previous to "You have a job interview with Frank, he's a white 18 year old". You will inevitably make assumptions on both and they are directly linked to your own background and history, etc. etc.

We agree anyway.

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Originally Posted by O'nus

Everyone does - this is just the vice of the human psyche. It is up to each individual to learn and elucidate their knowledge of other races in order to eliminate prejudices and allow for learning.

I agree.

Originally Posted by O'nus

I understand that. Believe me, it is far too often that I am told that I am racist and I spend far too much time explaining how I am far from racist. However, I am still inclined to make some pre-judgments of people just like anyone else. For example, "You have a job interview with Jacob, he's a black 18 year old" you will have assumptions, whether you like to or not, about what he will be like. Compare the previous to "You have a job interview with Frank, he's a white 18 year old". You will inevitably make assumptions on both and they are directly linked to your own background and history, etc. etc.

Yeah. Ironically enough, most of the pre-judgments I have had are of those in my own ethnic class. -sigh-

Originally Posted by Sandform

There is not a perfectly good reason for Black History Month to exist. Black history is covered thoroughly in regular history classes. Your analogy would be more correct if you had said the following.

The rich kid had some toys, then the other kid got some toys 'because' the rich kid had some toys and not him, and then later on the rich kid shared his toys and then the poor kid had more toys than the rich kid.


When white people say things like why isn't there a white history month, we don't actually mean we want one, we mean we're tired of the other pointless months.

not in my history book.

Originally Posted by O'nus

You must realize that you're reputation (as far as I know) is of a relatively antagonistic nature coupled with the fact that you said you agreed with some parts. It needed some clearing up and you've done well to do so.



I am glad to see you say people in general do not know there history rather than whites specifically..



I understand that you mean to say comparing patriotism is stupid.

Although, the women only asked how much he loved his country. I don't know if there is more to this video, but I get the idea that she is asking because he, at one time defends his patriotism, but on the other hand talks about how abusive the government is. It's a mixed message that a lot of minority groups make - "it's a white economy, don't support it, it's manipulative" juxtaposed with "i love my country, my fellowmen" etc. I understand that is likely that they love there fellow human rather than the country, but this just goes to explain her question for asking about his patriotism.

All in all, the guy is a complete asshole for discussion purposes and only ruins things and image of black people. Fundamentalists and zealots are always unproductive.

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ok, let me clear this up before i say it. I'm NOT defending him but can't someone love their country but hate the injustices the government commits against its people? Well its just like those people who say " you don't love your country because you don't support the war". That always annoyed me, don't I love my country because I want at least, what I think is best for my country?

Also even blacks don't know their history. I know I'm from the Caribbean and I know my family and my people as far as I know. I see every day, blacks, whites whoever, always young kids saying things and exemplifying this that Martin Luther King, Malcom X (after his transformation) never taught nor encouraged (thinking the riots in Oakland, where the mob just wanted an excuse to riot and harm innocent people).

"A people without knowledge of its history is like a tree without roots" -Marcus Garvey

Originally Posted by blackjack

ok, let me clear this up before i say it. I'm NOT defending him but can't someone love their country but hate the injustices the government commits against its people? Well its just like those people who say " you don't love your country because you don't support the war". That always annoyed me, don't I love my country because I want at least, what I think is best for my country?

Yes, but he's insulting, antagonizing, and hostile. There's a huge difference between criticizing and being a shit-disturber. Youtube "Don't tase me bro" for further examples. Furthermore, it is just another reason to ask someone, "Do you love your country?". It really is a sound and fair question that the woman asked - whoever she is. I can't really tell what she is saying as a premise though - something with the country and God...?

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