Thread: Symbols and all they stand for...

Just yesterday while waiting to cash my cheque, I picked up a Jehova's Witness pamphlet and started leafing through it. Came across an article that said the Witnesses don't use the cross because they believe Jesus was crucified on an upright stake. (I apologize if I'm mistaken there, I think it was a jehovas witness pamphlet, not 100% sure)

In that context, if you are against the cross, then I can see why you would be against pentagrams. Also it's only natural to fear that which you don't understand.

So to help you understand, did you know that all religious symbols are based on the Platonic Solids?

Spoiler for Platonic Solids:

The Jewish Star of Davis is in fact a star tetrahedron. Christianity's symbol of the cross is in fact a representation of a cube.

Spoiler for Cross = Cube:

Christianity sprang from Judaism. Connecting all the points of the star of david makes a hexagon, and the cube (cross) can be viewed as a hexagon as well, which can be viewed as paying homage to it's origins.

Spoiler for hexagon cube/Star of David:

Getting back to the pentagram, this is a representation of the symbol of Islam, which fits perfectly overtop the dodecahedron (the star fits over one of the faces while the cresent moon implies the rest of the structure). The 5 sided surfaces of the dodecahedron are the original inspiration for the pentagram, it has nothign to do with anything satanic.

Spoiler for Islamic Dodecahedron:

All religious symbols are based on these platonic solids, but over time this has been forgotten. Like the telephone game, things get distorted more and more as they get passed on from person to person.


I don't really know where I'm going with any of this, and I really don't expect it to change your mind about anything. All I'm saying is your son's facination with this shape is perfectly natural. All physical matter, every atom and molecule is based on the platonic solids. There is nothing evil about them, it's just the way things are.

some atheists find displays of faith offensive. Does this mean you should never mention your love of God in public because it's going to offend someone?

Personal is just that, personal. It doesn't mean you are right. It's just your opinion.

Having a BFA, I can tell you the swastika was meant to be a beautiful symbol. Sure, the iconic Nazi version of the swastika has a strong negative meaning for the world at large. But the swastika wasn't invented by Nazi's, and it doesn't belong to them or the modern day meaning it carries

http://www.cabiz.net/heartlink/swastika4.gif

it doesn't take much to reclaim the swastika to its original meaning. and people have every right to use the swastika, because its true meaning has nothing to do with nazis or injustice. it only takes some education to clear up the misunderstanding of the swastika

the pentagram is no different. the five pointed star, or any five pointed shape has been important to various cultures and religions. Including christianity. From the pentagon to the double tetrahedron. It's been related to the human being in some way cross cultures. Satanism or pagans didn't invent it or defined its meaning

"The pentagram is used as a Christian symbol for the five senses,[10] and if the letters S, A, L, V, and S are inscribed in the points, it can be taken as a symbol of health (from Latin salus).[citation needed]

Medieval Christians believed it to symbolise the five wounds of Christ. The pentagram was believed to protect against witches and demons.[11]

Most Christians, probably due to their misinterpretation of symbols used by ceremonial magicians, came to associate it with Satanism and subsequently rejected the symbol sometime in the twentieth century.[11]"


The Merkabah is believed to be like the human light body. Notice it's shape?






Those who believe in the Merkabah are neither wiccan or satanist. It has nothing to do with communing with spirits or magic. But age old meditation, prayer and unconditional love.

There is nothing wrong the pentagram, not even in christianity. It's meaning lies outside of magic.

Thanks for all the information and viewpoints!!

If it wasn't for my history with the symbol **I** wouldn't have a problem with the symbol in and of itself.
I didn't know the history of the shapes though. A million thanks for the education.

And you're correct, Cusp, JW's don't venerate the Cross. Whether Christ died on it or not is secondary to our belief that veneration of any symbol is wrong.

Even still... everyone has given me a lot to think about.

Juroara: You're great, your posts are always long and informative, I would love to add to the conversation but I can't think of much else to say.

Zhaylin: That pentagram that you say that your first lover gave to you was most likely more than just a pentagram. He probably had put some sort of spell on it. My mom had a similar experience that I could tell you about in PM if you wish.

Your son drawing pentacles should'nt worry you, they're just drawings. The pentacle gets way too much unwarranted negativity attatched to it, but Juroara has already cleared that up I think.

Wow. I fear your frightful smashing nipples, but love your text on the Platonic solids. Very important. But to 'get it', the boy will need to get over his angst long enough to get the habit of serious study.

*mouth opened in absolute awe*

Why the heck didn't I connect his obsession with an emotional "fact" I've known for a LONG time??? Why did it take a total stranger to open my eyes?
THanks Posquant for your reply.

I studied magic and spiritism for years. When I left it and returned to Christianity, I started comparing *perceived* similarities and differences in belief systems.
The person who practices magic (etc) seems to me to be a person who wants absolute control. They may chant, be vessles for energies, have an open mind toward answers and experience etc, yet they seem more ??? almost more proactive in their spiritual pursuits.

Christians, on the other hand, have to totally and most humbly submit to the will (and seemingly whims) of God. His ways seem very restrictive and rigid, yet joyful Christians gladly do all they can to please their God.

That's been my experience any how.

My son does, indeed, feel utterly powerless. He's trying to shape his world and change it to his liking the only way he knows how at this stage of life. And now that he's in Foster Care and unable to come home for at least two months, he's even more lost than ever.
Thanks for helping show me that.

Thanks to everyone else as well. I've thoroughly enjoyed all the replies!

**Edit**
LOL regarding my post count. I'm actually very proud of it because almost all of them have been "worthy" and well thought out posts (not one-liners or smilies).
My activity is starting to die down a little though

Zhaylin. Hi. Personally, I would love to spend more time here. I find here a high percentage of descent unpretentious thinking folk like yourself. I think the fact that we're all dreamers, already sharing the weirdness, leads to a sort of common respect. And, so, we can relate. And I do.

Symbols, energy, information ... conscious... conscience. It is becoming clear now, from discoveries emerging from quantum physics etc. - the infinite power of well formed information. Information is Form is Energy. I > MC2. Oh. And it's a multiverse. Infinite universes. Accessible via information, immaterial and atemporal.

But as old as science probably is, and as far as it all goes, personal experience is still the essence.

The fact of that further reality, real entities and beings in other realms, our own "being alongside" them, IS the first great truth. Science is revealing the framework. So, one might feel the bliss, or the horror - or just get annoyed. After that, many details ... and no turning back.

So, hard facts.

Easy New Age optimism aside...

What would you do if you found your mind actively enmeshed with a massively-connected multi-user cosmically distributed trans-temporal quantum telepathic communications network? You also get to participate in creating, shaping, directing it - even at your worst, your lowest, when you least want to.

Surprise! Guess what!

That's why I am also really really into ethics. Quantum ethics. Really, information ethics has simple rules. Golden Rule works perfectly well for quantum telepathy. The conventional information law of fraud, trespass, privacy, etc. also apply.

See what I mean? A subtle but powerful shift is required. Quantum telepathy. That is, contrary to our usual approach, there is no reason whatsoever to doubt the existence of all those entities out there. But we never really take this seriously, as a fact. Only when we assume their existence and our entanglement, take it as a given, a feature, can we really start thinking / acting in the world AS IT REALLY IS.

I think that this makes all the difference in the world.

Wow! Very interesting information. But your intellect and grasp of such things FAR exceeds my own abilities.

I can barely grasp the concept of alternate realities and parallel (sp!!) universes.

Just because we are imperfect humans that can't always be fully logical, is no excuse to just give up being rational. "Quantum telepathy"? That's pseudoscience, it has no relation to true quantum physics. The world of science barely understands the most basic strange things about quantum mechanics and entanglement. To think that this can be taken as confirmation of the existance of angels or demons is absurd.

Just think about what the negative consequences of allowing a pentagram in your house are really likely to be. Nothing. A pentagram is just a couple of marks on paper, a particular pattern of light-absorbing molecules that has no meaning to anything or anyone but the person reading it.
On the other hand, the negative consequences of keeping to your rule - the tension and (dare i say it?) aggression - are far more suggestive of the effects of a "demon disrupting the harmony and unity of a household".

You say demons have only the power you give them. Well, I would suggest that by holding on to your opposition to a simple shape, you are giving them power from the simple tension and anger you generate by doing so. By allowing your belief and fear of their power to control you, they have already won.

Just some food for thought.

Quantum telepathy is pseudoscience, no relation to real quantum physics?

Not really. Information non-locality and entanglement are intrinsic to the theory.

http://cogprints.org/3065/1/qmt.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_pseudo-telepathy

Anyway, denial of such a possibility also requires proof beyond one's own lack of evidence for it.

PQ