Thread: Proof that your Government is Not Really Yours

His name is John Pilger. I like his films, though.

Screw your heads back on, people. Let's assume everything written in that article is true. There's no reason to assume that the entire government is corrupt.

You talk about revolution, but maybe that's what the enemies of America want. If revolution were to occur, the United States as a powerful, unified entity would crumble, bringing down all that we, as freedom-loving people, believe in.

Originally Posted by Black_Eagle

If revolution were to occur, the United States as a powerful, unified entity would crumble, bringing down all that we, as freedom-loving people, believe in.

Wait...what?

Bleagle, though revolution is quite overboard in the current situation, America's power is wanning, our economy is in shambles, our infrastructure is crubling (rated around c/d by inspectors), and our government isn't doing anything beyond petty bickering driven by greed. If they don't knock it off, the US won't be #1 forever.

Originally Posted by Black_Eagle

Screw your heads back on, people. Let's assume everything written in that article is true. There's no reason to assume that the entire government is corrupt.

I think the main concern I have with the issues the article brings up is that their is strong and damning evidence against these people, but our government and media are not only not doing anything to hold these people accountable, they are trying to keep the whole thing quiet. We have reached a point in our history in which giant corporations can lose billions of dollars and become "too big to fail" and thus be bailed out, and government officials can become "too big to bust" by committing such over arching acts of treason against this country that no one wants to talk about it and make themselves as part of the government look bad.

We are sending the message that as long as you do something big enough and long enough, there will be no repercussions for your crimes against society. It sets a dangerous precedent that is hard to step back from. It also shows that we as citizens have no power to stop our government from selling us out to the highest bidder.

Originally Posted by Black_Eagle

You talk about revolution, but maybe that's what the enemies of America want. If revolution were to occur, the United States as a powerful, unified entity would crumble, bringing down all that we, as freedom-loving people, believe in.

This saddens me, because a lot of people feel this way and it is exactly the opinion that a corrupt government would try to foster. If we do not hold on to the power of revolution, then how are we free? I think Mr. Benjamin Franklin said it best, "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

You think thats crazy, check this shit out, the government can assassinate citizens now, its policy.....

Originally Posted by guerilla

You think thats crazy, check this shit out, the government can assassinate citizens now, its policy.....

That is scary!
Violent revolution won't work. They have the high-tech weapons, they have the prisons. They have the mercenaries and the white phosphorous and the depleted uranium and the land mines. They have microwave weapons.

Instead, take out the root: money. That is what they live off of, but money is a made up thing used to enslave us. Like the Matrix. Without money their power will crumble.

Why the hell would we need to have a (violent?) revolution to change this country?

1) Like it has been noted, nobody gives a damn enough to actually use violence.
2) There's a magical election system that Americans can use to change who represents them. If you truly desire to follow the path of the founding fathers then spread the word first, not the bullets.

EDIT: Or we could unite with Canada. I wouldn't mind that.

We are the government. We run shit...well we would if everyone wasn't afraid to cock back an AK-47 and shoot a politician in the face. /joke

Originally Posted by The Invisible Man

Why the hell would we need to have a (violent?) revolution to change this country?

1) Like it has been noted, nobody gives a damn enough to actually use violence.
2) There's a magical election system that Americans can use to change who represents them. If you truly desire to follow the path of the founding fathers then spread the word first, not the bullets.

EDIT: Or we could unite with Canada. I wouldn't mind that.

As Guerilla said, a violent revolution is ultimately a futile act these days. It would be a bloody downhill battle. Voting, however does not work either. For the most part, there are two parties to choose from and both of them are owned by major money interests, both are corrupted, and in many ways both are working together to secure their own position. Also, I'm not sure if you are aware, but relatively recently there was an important supreme court decision that overturned the limits on corporate spending for campaign finances.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/22/us.../22scotus.html

This means that whoever spends the most money essentially decides who is going to be elected.

Whilest voting will accomplish nothing, a revolution would probably
neither. I don't think highly enough of humanity in terms of 'reasonable'
that I would think things would really change. It is a new way of thinking
that we need. Because the danger I see, as often proven by history, is
the revolutionaries becoming the opressors. What I mean is that a
revolution - and I'm talking revolution by force - gives room for an even
more corrupt government. Also people don't even seem to be able to
agree on what it is that needs change, or what it is the government does.

I would like to venture another question:
Seeing how governments/corporations of other countries kind of behave
the same and since we know that if a system gives room for exploitation, it
will be exploited - Is it right to go after the individual instead of the system
itself? If you're picking up the people from the top, wouldn't it just be a
matter of some time until the same things happen again and the root
cause would have been ignored,... again?

Other than that I welcome any kind of criticism of our today political or
economical system, I as well often start debating it and think it is of high
importance to be aware of all (or as much as possible) of what's going on.

With that said, I'll post some links of things I can think of right now:

How PR Sold the War in the Persian Gulf.
http://www.prwatch.org/books/tsigfy10.html

Noam Chomsky - Emerging Framework of World Power
http://video.google.de/videoplay?doc...8&hl=de&emb=1#
(You can find loads of his on google video)

Naomi Klein and Joseph Stiglitz on Economic Power
http://fora.tv/2008/10/20/Naomi_Klei...Economic_Power

Dr. Michael Parenti - Terrorism, Globalism and Conspiracy
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...chael+Parenti#

Constitution Overturned by HR6166
http://iusbpreface.wordpress.com/200...ed-by-hr-6166/

President's Detention Plan Tests American Legal Traditions
http://www.nytimes.com/glogin?URI=ht...mQ5EJQ225%28gO
(You have to pay for access now,... but just research Obama's Detention Plan)

Some good stuff on here:
http://www.wanttoknow.info/

John Swinton on the independent press
http://www.constitution.org/pub/swinton_press.htm

GlobalEurope Anticipation Bulletin
http://www.leap2020.eu/English_r25.html

Collaborative EU-Project for surveillance of citizens
http://www.indect-project.eu/

Originally Posted by The Invisible Man

EDIT: Or we could unite with Canada. I wouldn't mind that.

Oh yeah, Canadians would want that .

I just think Americans need to voice their dissatisfaction more. Whenever the government passes some frankly unacceptable legislation (like that unlimited corporate political funding crap), all the people do is whine a bit and then accept the situation and everything blows over.

You look at places like France and whenever their government fucks up, people are flooding the streets and flipping cars. I'm not suggesting violence, just persistently oppose bad decisions until something is done.

Originally Posted by Black_Eagle

You talk about revolution, but maybe that's what the enemies of America want. If revolution were to occur, the United States as a powerful, unified entity would crumble, bringing down all that we, as freedom-loving people, believe in.

Europe would still be here.

The eternal bastion and stronghold of civilisation.

But Europe isn't really any better...

That's what I meant though. People's opinions on
what needs to be improved or changed or abolished
are so incredibly diverse... and that's why I essentially
agree with Invader. A goal of mine is to become self-
sustained at one point in my life - and by living examplatory
I hope it may be possible to inspire alternative thinking
and therefore a shift in... the basic thoughts of cultural
understanding. It would be a very slow process, but
I just don't see anything else last for very long.

Originally Posted by dajo

But Europe isn't really any better...

That's what I meant though. People's opinions on
what needs to be improved or changed or abolished
are so incredibly diverse... and that's why I essentially
agree with Invader. A goal of mine is to become self-
sustained at one point in my life - and by living examplatory
I hope it may be possible to inspire alternative thinking
and therefore a shift in... the basic thoughts of cultural
understanding. It would be a very slow process, but
I just don't see anything else last for very long.

West european and scandinavian countries are better for the issues in the OP.

Government is there to give direction because there are too many individual opinions.
Anarchy or world peace are the only true 'solutions'. Either totally unite opinions or have all opinions in chaos.
Those who dream a happy-medium, yet complain about the government that is that happy-medium, are st00pid.

The government in America right now cares about pretty much the same most Americans care about -- themselves.

Originally Posted by ClouD

Government is there to give direction because there are too many individual opinions.
Anarchy or world peace are the only true 'solutions'. Either totally unite opinions or have all opinions in chaos.
Those who dream a happy-medium, yet complain about the government that is that happy-medium, are st00pid.

The government in America right now cares about pretty much the same most Americans care about -- themselves.

You have to admit that the government could at least do a better job than it's doing currently.

campfema.com

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

That is scary!
Violent revolution won't work. They have the high-tech weapons, they have the prisons. They have the mercenaries and the white phosphorous and the depleted uranium and the land mines. They have microwave weapons.

Instead, take out the root: money. That is what they live off of, but money is a made up thing used to enslave us. Like the Matrix. Without money their power will crumble.

Couldn't have possibly said it better myself. I only read the first page of replies, but I'm really glad you posted this Xaqaria. This is the kind of shit that I've been trying to wake people up about.

I hope people understand my stance as one of action, not one of fear or panic. Fear feeds the problem. Violent retaliation is not only futile, it is exactly what these globalists want. First of all, yes, they actually do have microwave weapons that can heat the skin to some insanely hot degree instantly from 150 feet away, which probably means they can do it from further, and just aren't telling us.

Second of all, in several states, governments are pushing to find a loophole to suspend the Posse Comitatus act in the Constitution. For those of you who don't know what that is, it is the constitutional law that prohibits the designation of peace officer status to military personell within the homeland unless under a national emergency.

In in simple terms, it's a way to ammend the constitution in order to legally impose martial law, and by taking up your guns and deciding to fight, you will be giving them an excuse to instate martial law, and then the prison camps come into play.

In many states, martial law already gets imposed. I live in Sacramento, the capital of California. Our police force is short staffed, so not only are they merging the jurisdictions of some PD's, they are also allowing military patrol. Don't tell me it's bullshit, because as someone who LIVES here, I'm telling you that's what they are doing, I watch guys in military outfits on police detail more often than I'd like to.

When I ask about it, they claim to be running "drills," which in all reality, probably is what they are doing. But it's likely to psychologically customize people to seeing military acting as peace officers, which is illegal.

Cops here have military contracted weapons too. Military choppers, etc.

Like Dannon said, you destroy money, you destroy the power structure. Money is the root of all evil. Money corrupts, almost always, and the more money usually results in the more corruption, especially for these big fucking asshole companies. Because money cannot exist if there isn't profit somewhere, and profit, mathematically speaking, can only exist if there is scarcity, which is why oil companies hold many patents for extremely advanced energy technology that ALREADY EXISTS to use clean, safe renewable and more efficient sources of energy.

Mathematically speaking, money in a country with any sort of fractional reserve central bank, CANNOT exist without massive debt, because money is CREATED out of debt in a fractional reserve system. Unfortunately, there is no centralized monetary system in the world that is not a fractional reserve system, so basically, we're FUCKED until we change that. Money is the most evil shit there is, and as paradoxical as this is, you are going to need a LOT of money if you want to change the system.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

campfema.com

I recently watched camp fema and thought it was pretty eye opening. no exaggeration, no bull shit sales pitch to scare you. it was just the facts. i think people need to wake up to the fact the america has been taken over slowly and that the people in power have left us with very few options. i disagree that violence could never work but that is a last option. we still have other options open to us. i would suggest trying to educate people about how we owe allegiance to the bill of rights and the constitution and not political parties or pop culture. thats a good start. the elites and the "illuminated" do not care if you do your sit ins or boycott anything. they will find a way to "fix" the problem if you create one that is big enough to challenge them. it is sometimes hard to remain hopeful but what else can you do? FIGHT THE NEW WORLD ORDER

I'm still up for the self-sufficient island community. Who posted that, Ska?

http://www.articlesoffreedom.us/ThePlan.aspx

wow this discussion died rather quickly after i posted. and yes i meant i with an I. wake up and either agree or disagree and stand up for your ideas and beliefs.

Originally Posted by poopman

wow this discussion died rather quickly after i posted. and yes i meant i with an I. wake up and either agree or disagree and stand up for your ideas and beliefs.

It hasn't died, its been plugging along at a pretty regular pace.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

http://www.articlesoffreedom.us/ThePlan.aspx

I may make a thread about this because it is important. I know I will be at my state capitol building representing myself and the constitution on April 19th, will you?

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

I think the main concern I have with the issues the article brings up is that their is strong and damning evidence against these people, but our government and media are not only not doing anything to hold these people accountable, they are trying to keep the whole thing quiet. We have reached a point in our history in which giant corporations can lose billions of dollars and become "too big to fail" and thus be bailed out, and government officials can become "too big to bust" by committing such over arching acts of treason against this country that no one wants to talk about it and make themselves as part of the government look bad.

We are sending the message that as long as you do something big enough and long enough, there will be no repercussions for your crimes against society. It sets a dangerous precedent that is hard to step back from. It also shows that we as citizens have no power to stop our government from selling us out to the highest bidder.

Okay, but this still doesn't warrant labeling the entire government as sold out to foreign nations.

And I still haven't accepted the article in the OP as "damning". This is the internet. Any whackjob can make shit up and post it online. I'll look further into it, but what evidence can you provide me that this isn't completely made up?

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

This saddens me, because a lot of people feel this way and it is exactly the opinion that a corrupt government would try to foster. If we do not hold on to the power of revolution, then how are we free? I think Mr. Benjamin Franklin said it best, "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

That quote references laws put in place that take away freedom to gain a little bit of safety. Violently revolting against the government would cause the entire nation to splinter and become instable. The constitution, being the symbol of the Union and Republic, would go straight out the window. That isn't a little bit of safety.

Originally Posted by Abra

Europe would still be here.

The eternal bastion and stronghold of civilisation.

True, but remember: Europe is afraid of its own shadow.