Thread: Plastic Surgery

It's a 50-50 split for me. On one hand, I can see the appeal of artificially augmenting what nature may have denied a person due to genetic roulette, but at the same time, it does raise a few questions. If a woman feels like augmenting her breasts, it should be because she wishes to, not because she feels pressured by the media to. If a guy wants a better chin (or whatever it is that guys get), it should be because he wants to, not because he's trying to live up to some impossible standard. Plastic surgery can increase a person's confidence, which is generally healthy for the person and for society. Personally, I tend to prefer women without plastic surgery, or else surgery that looks natural and relatively subtle, and I'm sure I'm not alone on this. I hate needles, I hate knives, and I like myself, so I would never consider plastic surgery for the sake of appearance alone. I imagine that if society continues on the plastic surgery trend, there will be those who embrace it and those who shun it. I don't think you'd ever reach a unanimous migration toward any one thing. Also, as "natural" people become more scarce, I imagine the demand for those individuals would increase, at least in some circles. On an overall danger scale, I'd give plastic surgery a two out of ten.

Beauty standards are becoming higher and higher due directly to the influence of marketers using sex to sell their product. What do we do about this? Do we ban the use of sexual suggestion in marketing?

I vote we ban marketing altogether. Billboards are an eyesore, and commercials are annoying as hell. If I need a product, I'll look it up on my own. I don't need to be barraged with a perpetual stream of diaper commercials and signs advertising fuck all. Who's with me?

I am for it, I think some take it too far but id be very willing to get plastic surgery to look the way I specifically want to

I don't particularly care. I wouldn't get it myself. It's how you feel about yourself that makes you more attractive, not the size of your breasts, etc. I'd rather strive to learn how to generate those good feelings from the inside, rather than to depend on external factors for happiness.

That being said... people can do whatever they want, and I wouldn't get in their way, hence the "I don't care" vote.

"To each their own", so I also voted "Don't care".

I don't think I'd ever get plastic surgery. I think age is beautiful and I welcome each and every wrinkle and gray hair
But then again... I'm not a performer and neither do I have any job, let alone one where I'd have to interact with others or sell them something.

I too think some people go wayyyy too far.
I don't think it will ever become "standard" for common people because of the big price tags involved...

In the cases of people who are severely scarred or need plastic surgery to restore their appearance (trust me, I'd be all for it if something ever happened to me), I fully approve. But for shallow people who only care about acceptance, that's a whole different story. I'm average-looking, maybe slightly better than average, but I'm not getting surgery.

Besides, being injected with silicon and botox and chemicals that kill muscles in your lips and face... Doesn't sound that appetizing. That's what botox is, an injection that kills the muscles that cause wrinkles.

want...lipo...

I think it makes people look fake, and I have never seen it make anybody more attractive to me. They always look less attractive. I sometimes don't even recognize people after they get it, and that's a shame. Some Hollywood celebrities look like mutants from Mars now because of it.

I think silicon breast implants royally suck too, by the way.

In some cases surgery is a necessity though, in my case I will need a little bit, for a few reasons, mainly being transgendered, and because I want to change my nose and a few other things, but I think botox and lip injections are a little nuts, I think in moderation surgery can produce AMAZING results, especially if planned well.

If it's part of a sex change, then it's different. People who seek sex changes are one gender on the outside and the other one on the inside. Hormonal states prove that. I am all for that kind of surgery in people who are truly right for it. I also am in favor of plastic surgery for people who have been burned or mutilated some other way. Sometimes it's necessary. People like Michael Jackson and Farrah Fawcett didn't need it and went way overboard with it, though.

Since this is for purely aesthetic plastic surgery, I could care less. If someone wants to pay 10K for boobs that feel like a bag of gel, fine by me.

When Steve Carrell said in The 40 Year Old Virgin that a breast feels like a bag of sand, I immediate thought of fake breasts, they aren't that hard, but I could certainly alien fake boobs to a bag of wet sand.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

If it's part of a sex change, then it's different. People who seek sex changes are one gender on the outside and the other one on the inside. Hormonal states prove that. I am all for that kind of surgery in people who are truly right for it. I also am in favor of plastic surgery for people who have been burned or mutilated some other way. Sometimes it's necessary. People like Michael Jackson and Farrah Fawcett didn't need it and went way overboard with it, though.

I totally agree, a lot of celebrities including MJ, Burt Reynolds, Priscilla Priestley...etc just take it too far, with the crazy face lifts or ugly botox, lip injections...yucky...

But I still stick with my stance that everyone's body is their own temple and they can do whatever they want with it, even though I might not like it, or else i would be the biggest idiot hypocrite ever haha But omg do I want a NOSE JOB ....of all the other 5 million things that make me unhappy its a really big issue for me at least.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

Since this is for purely aesthetic plastic surgery, I could care less. If someone wants to pay 10K for boobs that feel like a bag of gel, fine by me.

When Steve Carrell said in The 40 Year Old Virgin that a breast feels like a bag of sand, I immediate thought of fake breasts, they aren't that hard, but I could certainly alien fake boobs to a bag of wet sand.

lol, its funny how in that scene they accuse him of not knowing how breasts feel, he could of just said I never felt real ones all along lol...but I guess for some it works, for some it doesn't...they aren't permanent anyway and can be a little bit dangerous for your health if they leak...etc etc...its fine with me though, let people live their lives .

Hormonal states prove that

What does that mean lol UM Cause I have mood swings?

Originally Posted by guerilla

IBut I still stick with my stance that everyone's body is their own temple and they can do whatever they want with it, even though I might not like it, or else i would be the biggest idiot hypocrite ever haha

Oh, I am completely for the right to get plastic surgery for whatever reason.

Originally Posted by guerilla

What does that mean lol UM Cause I have mood swings?

I am not sure what hormones are involved, but some men are women hormonally although they have male genitalia. I watched a movie about the first person ever to get a sex change, and the major theme of the movie is that the man was a woman hormonally and mentally (played with dolls as a kid, etc.) and that it made no sense for the person to keep the male tools. You should check it out. I'm not sure what the name of it is, but I'll try to find out.

Ohh I see what you mean, I have not heard cases of a tgirl naturally being high in estrogen, but that film sounds interesting. gosh if only my body pumped out estrogen instead of evil testosterone.

Originally Posted by Mario92

It's a 50-50 split for me. On one hand, I can see the appeal of artificially augmenting what nature may have denied a person due to genetic roulette, but at the same time, it does raise a few questions. If a woman feels like augmenting her breasts, it should be because she wishes to, not because she feels pressured by the media to. If a guy wants a better chin (or whatever it is that guys get), it should be because he wants to, not because he's trying to live up to some impossible standard. Plastic surgery can increase a person's confidence, which is generally healthy for the person and for society. Personally, I tend to prefer women without plastic surgery, or else surgery that looks natural and relatively subtle, and I'm sure I'm not alone on this. I hate needles, I hate knives, and I like myself, so I would never consider plastic surgery for the sake of appearance alone. I imagine that if society continues on the plastic surgery trend, there will be those who embrace it and those who shun it. I don't think you'd ever reach a unanimous migration toward any one thing. Also, as "natural" people become more scarce, I imagine the demand for those individuals would increase, at least in some circles. On an overall danger scale, I'd give plastic surgery a two out of ten.

But there are some traits that are universally beautiful such as facial symmetry. Perfect symmetry is extremely rare, but can be easily achieved through plastic surgery. Therefore, unnaturals will always fit the beauty standard more perfectly than naturals.

You could argue that the demand for naturals would grow, but it has already gotten to the point that it is very difficult to tell who has had the surgery and who has not through appearances alone.

You say you'd never reach unanimous migration toward one thing, but we already have. The use of makeup in our society is a perfect example of this very thing. After all, how many girls do you know who don't use makeup?


I've done some thinking, and given what I've written above and these statistics about the increased trend of plastic surgery in the last ten years, it seems to me that augmentation of one's beauty through plastic surgery is an inevitability. But because that which is beautiful is also that which is relatively scarce, aside from the several universally beautiful traits, I'm convinced that things plastic surgery cannot possibly change will become the new standard for beauty while everything else is changeable through plastic surgery will be taken for granted.

I voted no. I think our society is dangerously shallow and far off-base with reality. We keep longing to live in a fantasy world where everybody is happy all the time (pumped with anti-depressants and material possessions) and everybody looks like supermodels. Did people forget that beauty is in the eye of the beholder? Did people forget that the reason some people look different from others is NOT because of a genetic advantage/disadvantage? Especially seeing as plastic surgery won't help genetics? Did people forget that beauty isn't so important in the first place?

One of these days, enough needs to be enough and society needs to wake up.

I will never have plastic surgery. Although I've considered it in the past, I'm now a more mature person who has greater self-esteem and security with my body image. I know now that I'm loved by some because of the way I am. I'm much better being natural.

I really fail to understand why some of you think that it's better for ugly people to change themselves. Self-esteem shouldn't come from a made up physical ideal that the media shoves in your face day in and day out. Ugliness is a part of the natural world, and your life is not worthless if you're unattractive. People can survive walking down the street and seeing someone who's ugly.

Originally Posted by Black_Eagle

But there are some traits that are universally beautiful such as facial symmetry. Perfect symmetry is extremely rare, but can be easily achieved through plastic surgery. Therefore, unnaturals will always fit the beauty standard more perfectly than naturals.

Symmetry is ONE factor used to determine attraction toward an individual. If plastic surgery ever does become the norm, then there will still always be people who find natural beauty more attractive or more ideal. If a woman has either the exactly right genetic combination or else the confidence to tell plastic surgery to shove it, that, too, is going to be attractive. Finding women who aren't so shallow to get surgery for the sake of appearance, if it becomes difficult enough, may very well cause a backward trend in plastic surgery.

You could argue that the demand for naturals would grow, but it has already gotten to the point that it is very difficult to tell who has had the surgery and who has not through appearances alone.

So if people with and without plastic surgery are virtually the same in appearance, then why would there be a trend toward plastic surgery? Seems rather unnecessary, really.

You say you'd never reach unanimous migration toward one thing, but we already have. The use of makeup in our society is a perfect example of this very thing. After all, how many girls do you know who don't use makeup?

If you recall the makeup thread, you know that I greatly dislike it when women wear makeup on a regular basis. I actually know quite a few girls in my school who either use no makeup at all or else very little that doesn't appear to do much at all. I am not alone in my sentiments toward makeup use, either. It is not a unanimous migration.

I've done some thinking, and given what I've written above and these statistics about the increased trend of plastic surgery in the last ten years, it seems to me that augmentation of one's beauty through plastic surgery is an inevitability. But because that which is beautiful is also that which is relatively scarce, aside from the several universally beautiful traits, I'm convinced that things plastic surgery cannot possibly change will become the new standard for beauty while everything else is changeable through plastic surgery will be taken for granted.

Badabing. See the confidence argument above. If people get plastic surgery simply because everyone else is doing it, then people who don't get it are going to be viewed as being more confident and at peace with their appearance, and so more desirable. And if this occurs, then less people will get plastic surgery in the future, and there will be a definite backward trend.

Originally Posted by Mario92

So if people with and without plastic surgery are virtually the same in appearance, then why would there be a trend toward plastic surgery? Seems rather unnecessary, really.

Let me elaborate. It is difficult to tell whether somebody who is extremely beautiful has or has not had plastic surgery. The point I'm trying to make is that most of the time there aren't clearly visible indicators that a plastic surgery procedure has taken place.

Originally Posted by Mario92

If you recall the makeup thread, you know that I greatly dislike it when women wear makeup on a regular basis. I actually know quite a few girls in my school who either use no makeup at all or else very little that doesn't appear to do much at all. I am not alone in my sentiments toward makeup use, either. It is not a unanimous migration.

Alright, I will cede to you that it is not a unanimous migration, but I still maintain that majority of people accept and prefer girls who wear at least some makeup. I agree to disagree with you on that because I'm having trouble finding studies about people's preference.

Originally Posted by Mario92

Symmetry is ONE factor used to determine attraction toward an individual. If plastic surgery ever does become the norm, then there will still always be people who find natural beauty more attractive or more ideal. If a woman has either the exactly right genetic combination or else the confidence to tell plastic surgery to shove it, that, too, is going to be attractive. Finding women who aren't so shallow to get surgery for the sake of appearance, if it becomes difficult enough, may very well cause a backward trend in plastic surgery.

Originally Posted by Mario92

Badabing. See the confidence argument above. If people get plastic surgery simply because everyone else is doing it, then people who don't get it are going to be viewed as being more confident and at peace with their appearance, and so more desirable. And if this occurs, then less people will get plastic surgery in the future, and there will be a definite backward trend.

What features entail natural beauty? Why would people who don't get it be viewed as more confident and at peace?

Originally Posted by Black_Eagle

Let me elaborate. It is difficult to tell whether somebody who is extremely beautiful has or has not had plastic surgery. The point I'm trying to make is that most of the time there aren't clearly visible indicators that a plastic surgery procedure has taken place.

Well, that makes more sense.

What features entail natural beauty? Why would people who don't get it be viewed as more confident and at peace?

Natural beauty, I guess, would be something that competes with artificial beauty. There ARE some traits considered naturally beautiful, I agree, but the priorities they take in the minds of people vary greatly. A person may view physical attractiveness as the highest priority and of the utmost importance, while the person right next to him may value intelligence, kindness, personality, confidence, etc. A person who does not get plastic surgery to look better implies they are content with how they look now. They don't need it to feel better about themselves, or feel like they need it to attract a mate or to blend into society. If they're in a minority, then that shows not only confidence, but individuality; both very attractive traits to many people. It is probably worth noting that in last semester's philosophy class, a quick poll revealed that not a single person in the class valued physical beauty over every other trait. Hardly scientific, but it is telling. The results in general were quite scattered, but kindness was quite high up the list, as was confidence. Beauty is relative, and far more than skin deep. So, while plastic surgery may offer a slight advantage in attracting a mate, it won't be the sole determining factor. If it ever becomes the norm, there's a good chance that it won't be again before too long.

Plastic surgery is ok for people who may be vvv unhappy with their looks (and I MEAN very very very unhappy) or disformed due to injury etc. However the media should not pressure people to look artifically beautiful. They slap artifical 'ideals' (complete with Photoshop touch-up) accross the magizine front-pages and say people should look like that. They have fallen to the level of the peer-pressuring schoolkids who say other people are too poor, ugly etc. To pressure people takes away their personal and independent choice, which prevents people becoming truely happy. And a person who does not direct ugliness to them will not seem as ugly as those who do.

Hmm I guess I was the only one to vote 'cut my face!" lol I'm ready for surgery tonight

I don't approve of plastic surgery because I don't like it and I don't think it should be used outside of medical necessity. I think the majority of non-medical plastic surgery is wrongfully initiated to conform to unrelistic standard of "beauty" influenced by a visually obsessed society. That being said it is not my place to tell others how they should spend their money.

I think A Tribe Called Quest said it best:

"You looked in the mirror, didn't know what to do
Yesterday your eyes were brown but today they are blue
Your whole appearance is a lie and it could never be true
And if you really loved yourself then you would try and be you"

I think a lot of people take this route because they think its the only way they can feel better about themselves. I think there are much better ways out there. Either way that's just my philosophy. I voted don't care. Nobody's forcing it on me, so its not my issue.

Originally Posted by Mario92

Natural beauty, I guess, would be something that competes with artificial beauty.

Since symmetry is a universal standard of beauty that can beperfected only through unnatural means, most other physical traits you could think of that might be considered beautiful can be duplicated through unnatural means. Remember, my argument was that plastic surgery will become so widespread that it will eventually boil down to certain genetic factors that plastic surgery cannot possibly alter.

Originally Posted by Mario92

There ARE some traits considered naturally beautiful, I agree, but the priorities they take in the minds of people vary greatly. A person may view physical attractiveness as the highest priority and of the utmost importance, while the person right next to him may value intelligence, kindness, personality, confidence, etc.

This is true, but everyone has a bare-minimum threshold of how beautiful a potential partner can be to get through the door.

Originally Posted by Mario92

A person who does not get plastic surgery to look better implies they are content with how they look now. They don't need it to feel better about themselves, or feel like they need it to attract a mate or to blend into society. If they're in a minority, then that shows not only confidence, but individuality; both very attractive traits to many people.

Not necessarily. If the phenomenon becomes widespread enough people may begin unconsciously assuming that those without plastic surgery cannot afford to do so and are therefore low-class. And if people are exposed to the idea of plastic surgery at a young age, whatever negative emotions one might associate with plastic surgery (lack of confidence, for example) might very well disappear from society.

An unsymmetrical face, even though it might become scarce, is still unattractive.

Originally Posted by Black_Eagle

Since symmetry is a universal standard of beauty that can beperfected only through unnatural means, most other physical traits you could think of that might be considered beautiful can be duplicated through unnatural means. Remember, my argument was that plastic surgery will become so widespread that it will eventually boil down to certain genetic factors that plastic surgery cannot possibly alter.

It may be "perfect," but I've seen a lot of naturally symmetrical faces in my day, too. I myself am fortunate enough to have one. In truth, a nicely symmetrical face isn't as uncommon as I think you think it is. In many of the cases I've witnessed, plastic surgery wouldn't make a difference, or if it did, it would be totally unnecessary. Humans aren't perfect...we aren't built to be. I think if you ever achieved perfect, totally flawless symmetry, there would be a definite intimidation factor, combined with that "plastic" feel. We expect flaws...it's kind of in our nature, which plastic surgery cannot alter. Symmetry is only one issue, too. Skin quality, hair style, fashion sense, the way a person carries themselves, behavior, body language...they all play large factors in how we perceive attraction. So, while plastic surgery may achieve a "perfect" face, and might even take care of skin issues, they aren't going to change human beings on the inside, and strangely enough, the inside factors can play one of the biggest parts in attraction. I'm not saying it's the sole determining factor, but it is there. If you're flirting with a supermodel and find out she's a whiny bitch with mental problems, you're going to second guess your attraction. On the other hand, if you chat up more of an average Jane and find out she's awesome, you'll find yourself much more attracted to her.

This is true, but everyone has a bare-minimum threshold of how beautiful a potential partner can be to get through the door.

Granted, and plastic surgery may help the truly desperate, but most of the women I've met either don't need to change, or else a few minor changes that don't require slicing their faces open and long recovery times. Hair style, I guess, is one thing I can be really attracted to. Fabulous hair and a face that doesn't look like a general plague area (i.e. not a total sea of zits) will generally get a girl in my "good" book. Note that these are both easily altered variables that don't require a total facial overhaul. I've never really looked at a girl and gone, "darn, if only she had better bone structure." Physical attraction issues (for me) boil down to more than plastic surgery can accomplish, but not beyond what an individual can accomplish with a curling iron and maybe some face cleaner. Personality remains the determining factor for me in most instances. A girl can be hot as hell, but if she's dumb as a stump or just plain irritating, she's out. By contrast, she doesn't have to be a supermodel to catch my eye. I'd rather spend the rest of my life with a moderately attractive girl with a great personality than a spoiled bitch. Just saying.

Not necessarily. If the phenomenon becomes widespread enough people may begin unconsciously assuming that those without plastic surgery cannot afford to do so and are therefore low-class. And if people are exposed to the idea of plastic surgery at a young age, whatever negative emotions one might associate with plastic surgery (lack of confidence, for example) might very well disappear from society.

An unsymmetrical face, even though it might become scarce, is still unattractive.

If it becomes widespread enough to be looked on as an absolute necessity, I'm moving. And then I'm unleashing a plastic-munching bacterium plague upon the populace. It may be the case that it becomes more accepted, but if every single individual becomes so shallow that they feel they all need a surgeon to be good enough for one another, that is a particular strain of humanity that needs to reevaluate their priorities (and what better way to reevaluate than having their faces all simultaneously regain their natural features?) I have a feeling that eugenics is going to reign supreme far faster than plastic surgery, being that the technology is here, relatively sound, effective for life, and useful on multiple levels beyond mere appearance. And eugenics, at least, is offering a long-term solution beyond the control of the individual. You don't want to marry who you think is a goddess, only to find out your children are butt-ugly. That is one of my largest issues with plastic surgery...that element of deception. I have seen women in their fifties who still look about 30, and in my book, that's kind of messed up.

And asymmetrical faces, as stated, I think aren't as uncommon as you think they are. I've never really looked at a girl and noticed a stark asymmetry. It's usually something else (like hair, misdemeanor, or skin condition).