Thread: Burn bibles and flags

welcome, Deus

what do you think of the new forum?

I'd rather take a bit more passive stance, if you don't mind.
The flag means a lot of different things to different people. Wouldn't changing their mindset be better/easier than changing the flag?

I don't like it much.

And I believe that neurons that fire together bond together. You're right, the flag means a lot of things to a lot of people and it's disrespectful as a nation to raise it high when it brings up feelings up hate in so many people. And I believe that people that care too much about the flag to let it go should remember the Buddhist parable above. Don't confuse what the nation really stands for with the flag it has.

If we take in our hand any volume; of divinity or school metaphysics, for instance; let us ask, Does it contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number? No. Does it contain any experimental reasoning, concerning matter of fact and existence? No. Commit it then to flames: for it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion. ~David Hume

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Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

Don't confuse what the nation really stands for with the flag it has.

In that case I think our flag is a perfect fit. Country like the US should only have a flag that reminds people of bloodshed and greed. No wait...we should get a new flag with the image of a mushroom cloud on it. That will remind them all not to f*ck with us. Oh and it should say "freedom" on it too. (with an oil spill at the bottom)

honestly, I dont see the reason to get worked up about a flag either way. To me, its just a way to identify a country easily. Also, if we can discredit the good things the flag stands for enough to burn it and change it, since its just a flag, I say the people who hate it can get over it for the same reason. Its just a damn flag.

Bible may be a little trickier but, to me, its just a book. I guess I just dont get the point of becoming so attached to symbols *shrugs*

Originally Posted by Aquanina

Oh and it should say "freedom" on it too. (with an oil spill at the bottom)

Nice touch

For me, the Bible doesn't really mean much to me, it's just a book however it can mean a lot of things to people and I should probably respect that.

About the flag. Yeah, I love the flag, and would never let one touch the ground. However I think people do get too caught up on what they think it means as in they get too symbolic and sort of forget about what it really means. I can honestly say though, that I don't give a 2 cents about anything with the pretty red white stripes and the blue with white stars if it was made anywhere not in the U.S. I mean, anything symbolizing America with a little sticker saying "Made in Korea". Not that I have anything against Korea, it's a beautiful country. But the company that made the flag and had it produced somewhere else is like a slap in the face.

Flags are about as significant as names. They are identifiers. There's no real meaning behind them except what someone chooses to attach to it.

..unless you ran into a flag like this somewhere in the Caribbean 300 years ago:



I think the imagery is a little more forward with the intended meaning.


I'd be cool with the American flag being changed to that of a dollar sign with a bunch of dead and dying people underneath it. I got my first taste of corporate healthcare hell recently after my neck got sprained AND I DON'T HAZ INSURANCE FOR MY BODY!
So, money flag for America. Cool. Work Money will set you free.

I was over in Australia and everyone's like "Are you proud to be an American?" And I was like, "Um, I don't know, I didn't have a lot to do with it. You know, my parents fucked there, that's about all. You know, I was in the spirit realm at that time, going "FUCK IN PARIS! FUCK IN PARIS! but they couldn't hear me, because I didn't have a mouth. I was a spirit without lungs or a mouth, or vocal cords. They fucked here. Okay, I'm proud. They should make the American Flag a picture of your parents fucking. Then people would get some perspective" -Bill Hicks

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^ lol funny stuff

but in all seriousness being proud of your country has little to do with being born there. Otherwise everyone would be proud of their country no matter what. In fact, one of the basic ideas of being american (use to be) is to always be critical of what your country is doing and voice your opinion to right it. I know, I know you cant analyze a joke like that otherwise it looses its shine *shrugs*

"If you want a symbolic gesture, don't burn the flag, wash it."

Originally Posted by Invader

Flags are about as significant as names. They are identifiers. There's no real meaning behind them except what someone chooses to attach to it.

True, huh?

It's just a symobl, like people are saying. Obviously, there is nothing inherently powerful in a flag. The ideas behind the flag and the emotions it conveys are purely those of individuals who give the flag meaning. That is it. So burning a flag can be an assault on any one of those ideas or concepts. It could be an insult to the immoral actions of the U.S., which it stands for. It could be a protest against blind patriotism, (the worst kind.)

Like Louie, I would dive to catch a falling flag. I love this nation. I can hate things that we do. Our lack of concern for the environment. Our war. A billion things, little and large, that go on here. But I am still an American. You can be liberal and patriotic and you can respect the flag as an ideal. That is what the flag is to me. To someone else, the flag may represent genocide or economic oppression or racism or aggression/war or ignorance or any number of things and burning that symbol could be a distancing of oneself from those things.

The Bible, on the other hand, is more than a symbol. There is something inherent inside it. Rather or not it is true, it is a document with history and philosophy and ideas. Burning a Bible is an insult to a belief system. I usually find insulting belief systems to be unnecesarry. Debate them, sure. Try and show yours to be truth. But insulting it is pretty pointless, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by louie54

True, huh?

Do you attach a meaning to the flag, or not?

To me, it means different things rather difficult to explain. Sometimes they can be good or bad. I look at the flag and it makes me feel good that I live in a beautiful country. We have our freedom and all that, we all have equal opportunity. However, the beautiful land we live in was taken away from the Natives and our country was partly built upon killing each other for territorial reasons. Our country may not be perfect, but we have come a long way over the years. We went through the civil rights movement which we shouldn't of had to go through if we would have just treated minorities with decency and respect. But now, we are the #1 nation in the world.

When I see the flag, I see a country that has a lot of experience that we have learned from that makes us so great today. Some things we cannot turn back on, as in, we can't just give back the land to the Indians and leave, but we have to let that go.

Then again, now that you mention, I've began to think about how the flag is basically just identification.

I generally find that people who burn flags are on the exact same intellectual level as people who find it offensive.

I sometimes wish we could take all the geniuses who think burning a flag is this mind-blowing political and social statement and lock them in the same room with all of Rush Limbaugh's armchair generals. Let them work out their differences there and leave the rest of us alone.

I agree with most of the posts here - The flags a rather insignificant symbol.