Deja Vus... In dreaming?

[DarkestDarkness]

Today I was thinking at some point about deja vus, and how I haven't had one for some time. Then I started having an unusual thought, why have I only ever had them while awake? Certainly, I cannot remember ever having one while dreaming. And I have had dreams where a situation repeats and sometimes I have been aware of this even non-lucidly, but for me at least, a deja vu has a very specific feel when it happens and I've never had that in dreaming. There are some existing threads on the topic, but they are "ancient" and I don't think any of their users are active anymore, so I thought thread necromancy would probably be frowned on in this case. Also, since none of those threads did as far as I can see, I'll put a poll together with this thread and will welcome any responses and speculations too; I am curious to know if other people have ever had the deja vu feeling while dreaming, or not, and how it compared to one from waking life. I won't exclude the possibility that one might dream about having a deja vu in the same way that one dreams about being lucid but without actually being lucid, in which case, still answer yes, but expand with a reply if possible.

[IndigoRose]

Deja vu as "I've had this dream before" false memory? Or any false memory ("I know this place" etc.)? Or something more specific? I would say often in dreams (assuming the narrowest definition) and almost never IRL.

[Tiktaalik]

I haven’t personally experienced what felt like real Deja Vu in a dream. I suppose it could be possible but it’s usually a rare occurrence in waking life so probably even rarer in a dream. We’d need to know exactly what causes Deja vu to occur in the brain to know if it’s possible whilst asleep. That said, I’ve had dreams that I believed I’d had before and visited locations that I thought I had been before. As you said, it’s a different feeling to real Deja vu though and I don’t think both are the same. I read that Deja vu may be caused by seeing something similar to what we’ve experienced before but we can’t recall the memory creating a feeling of disconnected familiarity. I could see this occurring in dreams as they are usually made up of past memories that could trigger this feeling.

[DarkestDarkness]

Deja vu as "I've had this dream before" false memory? Or any false memory ("I know this place" etc.)? Or something more specific? I would say often in dreams (assuming the narrowest definition) and almost never IRL. For me at least, deja vus are distinctly accompanied by a kind of change in my physical and perceptual being and unfortunately I can't really think of a way of describing it other than a whole body/head sensation, but this specifically is what I have never experienced in a dream and am curious about. So from my view, for the purpose of the poll, a "yes" would be a situation where you dream of having a deja vu as a specifically recognised event during the dream, i.e. you believe one is taking place, with or without the accompanying feelings of deja vu. As I said, I expect that one can dream about the event just like one can dream about lucidity without being lucid. I haven’t personally experienced what felt like real Deja Vu in a dream. I suppose it could be possible but it’s usually a rare occurrence in waking life so probably even rarer in a dream. We’d need to know exactly what causes Deja vu to occur in the brain to know if it’s possible whilst asleep. That said, I’ve had dreams that I believed I’d had before and visited locations that I thought I had been before. As you said, it’s a different feeling to real Deja vu though and I don’t think both are the same. Yes, I am open to the idea that what you say could be the case. However, as dreams can simulate so many different sensations and concepts I don't particularly see why they might not be able to reproduce the effect or sensation to some degree at least, even if that was limited to simply a dream-logic belief that the event (deja vu) is taking place at that time whilst dreaming.

[IndigoRose]

For me at least, deja vus are distinctly accompanied by a kind of change in my physical and perceptual being and unfortunately I can't really think of a way of describing it other than a whole body/head sensation, but this specifically is what I have never experienced in a dream and am curious about. So from my view, for the purpose of the poll, a "yes" would be a situation where you dream of having a deja vu as a specifically recognised event during the dream, i.e. you believe one is taking place, with or without the accompanying feelings of deja vu. As I said, I expect that one can dream about the event just like one can dream about lucidity without being lucid. This is very confusing to me. Tiktaalik's post too. If I go by your description, I can't say I've ever had anything like that in my life. If I go by the first definition that the internet gives me: "a feeling of having already experienced the present situation" This happens in my life very rarely and in minor ways - like familiar locations but I know I've never been there or something I've thought I've done but obviously haven't. The feeling accompanying it would be a simple confusion or disbelief. But as I see it, it's just a false memory and the confusion feeling is when reality proves this memory false. Like a cognitive dissonance. Nothing more. Dreaming about having a deja vu - it being a meta thing, like dreaming about being lucid without being lucid - I don't recall any dream like that. But dreams run on false memories and the same feeling that I would call deja vu IRL (that "I've done this" or similar confusion) happens in dreams relatively often. Then there are all those feelings when you wake up, go lucid or just semi-lucid and the false memory stops making sense but the brain can't let it go - I would say these are all similar feelings but I wouldn't call them deja vu.

[DarkestDarkness]

It's possible that the feelings accompanying a deja vu are different from person to person and I don't think there's a widely accepted theory on the underlying cause anyway. I would say that if, as far as you know you've had the experience, based on what you think or know that a deja vu is or feels like to you, then I cannot really contest that since it's about our own personal experiences. I had to look up "cognitive dissonance" as a term, now I hopefully understand a bit more why you mention confusion about your own experiences. When you mention your experience of "I've done this", it sounds valid to me, anyhow, regardless of other subjective criteria I might be interested in. Yes this is pretty much a meta thing as you say. I also agree with you that dreams often do run on false memories and I would even add that it's an important part of the "worldbuilding immersion" of a dream. In any case, for myself and like Tiktaalik says too, this has no resemblance to the occurrence of a deja vu in waking life, hence my curiosity here in the thread. I wasn't expecting a response like yours but it's still contributing to the discussion here. To continue on that point, my own dreams often have implied false memories about the dream's context, usually in some form of tacit knowledge about the dreamworld itself but there is hardly ever a situation in my dreams where I think this is odd or strange; maybe this is part of why I am not so frequently lucid and by contrast from what I've already seen of you, you seem to experience lucidity fairly often. In regards to subjective perception of what a deja vu is... For me there's rarely (if ever) a clear-cut point at which a deja vu "ends" exactly and there isn't so much a feeling of confusion, if anything there's a feeling of great certainty about what's happening and like nothing can be changed in that moment, and it's like a continuous feeling for a short while, maybe a minute or so at most. Quick Edit: Maybe I could add that I had deja vus frequently as a child and they became progressively less common from my teens onwards. What I mention about feeling "like nothing can be changed" in that moment influenced a lot of my thought in early life about concepts such as destiny and other pre-deterministic concepts in general. I have mostly let go of that type of thinking by now though, regardless of whether there is truth to it or not, it was simply not a healthy mode of thought, for me.

[Tiktaalik]

This is very confusing to me. Tiktaalik's post too. If I go by your description, I can't say I've ever had anything like that in my life. My experience of Deja Vu is when it hits I suddenly become fully aware of myself and what I’m doing in that moment. It’s a sudden realisation that what I’m experiencing appears to have happened before. The feeling can sometimes be quite overwhelming and stops me in my tracks as I look around and even question reality and the fabric of time a little. Some scientists believe you’re having a mild seizure when this happens which may explain the strange feeling. Mine then tends to fade within about 5 seconds or so until I can no longer remember why it felt so familiar. In a way I compare it to that feeling when you become lucid. That sudden realisation that hits you and makes you stop what you’re doing, become fully present and question your reality. I In dreams I haven’t experienced this kind of strong Deja vu. It’s usually much more casual. “Ah, this looks familiar. I think I’ve had this dream before”.