Thread: Can LD'ing be used for practical purposes?

Hi,

I've been thinking about this all day at work, trying to work out if it actually would be possible or not, can anyone advise? (I haven't actually done any LD yet, only recently started reading up on it)

I'm thinking, in reality I can read a book, on Greek history, then in my dreams I could use this knowledge to play out the dream. Can it work the other way around? Ie you learn stuff INSIDE the dream and take it out?

Some example scenarios I've been wondering

Mental learning : yeah, its not very exciting, but if you were somehow to use your LD to recite your maths times tables over and over again, would you retain this knowledge when you awoke?

Another one, In reality try to write a story/novel, it would take a long time to figure out the plot etc. In your dream you could evolve a story, live it out, then when you awake, you could use your memory(if you could) to effectively "write up" what you have achieved?

Physical learning : I've always wanted to try to kartwheel, but never had the confidence to throw myself into it. In a dream I could, I could practice doing that a lot, to build confidence, when I wake would I retain this progress?


Of course this is all just finger in the air wild thoughts, but I'm curious as to if it could be possible, but with a lot of practice.

Is there any evidence for people trying this?

It is possible to learn and retain ideas/skills rrom LDing, but it just depends on which kind. Physical ones, for instance, would be difficult because the physical aspect of dreams tends to shift and be different from reality. In a dream you can land from a large fall without any pain, parkour with no experience without breaking your back... It might be hard to practice cartwheels because you probably won't have any feeling in your hands or a proper sense of balance.

Sometimes, it helps to just practice this stuff in real life.

I like this matter very much

how about training a physical skill? perfecting moves...

my guess is that the body/spirit/mind would retain the memory, the same way it holds the dream memories...

when I dream of much physical activity, like running, there are times, I wake up with some muscle strangeness.. sorry about the subjectivity... its some feeling...

Experiments have shown that very similar brain and nerve activity is observed when dreaming an activity as when actually performing the activity. It's like if you mentally picture and imagine yourself doing something, except as strong as when you're actually performing the activity. So it is usefulfor training many physical activities. Apparently it's also good for overcoming fears and inhibitions, and achieving overall better mental health and balance. And the obvious radical wish fulfillment, and experiencing people, activities, and places which are impossible in waking life. There's plenty of practical aplications.

Not sure how much this will help, but I remember seeing a program on TV YEARS ago about this gymast who was having real trouble perfecting a move, and she said she had a dream about her doing it over and over again (just by chance, no control I don't think) and said she nailed it for the first time the next day.

There must be something there. I'd imagine certain activites within a dream could be very accurate, and very similar to real life.

Your memory for motion (whitch is part of the procedural memory) actualy needs sleep bevor it can take new trained motions fully into it.
Maybe dream training is what happens then, expect that most people dont remember there "training dreams"?

But I think you already need some knowledge of the motion before you can train in your dream, because otherwise some informations are not complet and your training model isnt accurat enough to actually get any good results. But thats just speculation on my part.

Hey
This is the reason for me getting involved in lucid dreaming. I'm a musician (classical) and I am certain that it is possible to practise your instrument in your sleep. Its more about creating neural connections than having physical "ability". I think one way of proving this is: go to a piano (it doesn't matter if you cant play) and in your left hand only, invent a melody that is difficult for you to play. do this a few times, speed it up until it is of a much higher standard than when you first played. now try to play it in your right hand. You'll probably play it perfectly, or at least of a much higher standard than your original left handed attempt.
Its not a huge stretch of imagination to apply this concept to sports, or even studying for exams etc.
I hope this is of use
on an unrelated note... i had my first lucid dream last night, but got too excited and woke up within 30 seconds... just felt like saying it haha

Hey quick note here,

I have had a few lucids and one of the things I do to stabilise dreams is to use all my senses. Before I started working on the awareness that helps induce lucids I was never able to mentally "hear" sounds in my head. However in dreams and lucids in particular I know I can produce sounds, because I do it all the time. This "skill" seems to have transfered to my waking life, as I now everynow and again am able to reproduce and hear sounds in my head. Whether it is from awareness training, lucid dreaming, or paying attention to HHs during WILD attempts I am unsure, but it is a small improvement I have noticed.

For other practical applications I see quite the therapeautical application, a sort of a shortcut at identifying stressful elements or getting to understand one's emotions/desires better. Maybe even better than your classical dream analysis as you are conscious througout your dream, the only difference being that you have removed personal, cultural, social and physcial consequences. This however is mere guesswork on my behalf, but it is something I intend to study further.

I can't find it right now on the web, but I'm pretty sure I once read a bit from a thesis (it was written in German anyways, I think) that inspected how the practice of some sports/motions during lucid dreams translated over to real life skills. The result was that there was indeed a significant positive impact on how people performed these motions. If I remember correctly, Paul Tholey even learned several "complicated" sports like skateboarding this way.
On a similar note, it's also been shown that when you perform a motion in your imagination (where you visualize and "feel" the motion as good as possible while awake) you get better at it.

I have a question on this note. I am horribly terrified of thunderstorms, and tornado's. It's to the point where i can't function, and at a mere Thunderstorm, or tornado watch. I start to hyperventilate, and just generally freak.90% of my nightmares are simply t-storms or tornado's. do you think that i could help myself get over said fears using lucid dreams, and dream control? I mean if I'm in a controlled environment and I'm able to stand on the porch and watch the lightning, or prepare for a tornado calmly in my dreams that it could help calm myself down in a real life situation?

Originally Posted by OtisMcRainbow

I have a question on this note. I am horribly terrified of thunderstorms, and tornado's. It's to the point where i can't function, and at a mere Thunderstorm, or tornado watch. I start to hyperventilate, and just generally freak.90% of my nightmares are simply t-storms or tornado's. do you think that i could help myself get over said fears using lucid dreams, and dream control? I mean if I'm in a controlled environment and I'm able to stand on the porch and watch the lightning, or prepare for a tornado calmly in my dreams that it could help calm myself down in a real life situation?

I'd say that's definitely possible. But since tornadoes and thunderstorms are a dream sign, they only work when the dreamer is aware enough to detect them. Work on overall awareness, observing things randomly throughout the day and questioning reality, and then you'll be able to become lucid even without those dream signs.

Originally Posted by OtisMcRainbow

I have a question on this note. I am horribly terrified of thunderstorms, and tornado's. It's to the point where i can't function, and at a mere Thunderstorm, or tornado watch. I start to hyperventilate, and just generally freak.90% of my nightmares are simply t-storms or tornado's. do you think that i could help myself get over said fears using lucid dreams, and dream control? I mean if I'm in a controlled environment and I'm able to stand on the porch and watch the lightning, or prepare for a tornado calmly in my dreams that it could help calm myself down in a real life situation?

I'm pretty sure you can use LDs as fear therapies. What I would try was to defeat the evil tornado god with my super powers or something of that sort, to make the fear palpable (is that the right word?) and then destroy it/send it away. The way you suggested to do it might work too I guess, even if it was only a placebo. I'm no professional though, and since your problem sounds quite severe to me, you might want to seek help from a professional therapist/psychologist.

There's also a bit of content about this topic on Wikipedia's lucid dream article (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucid_dream#Treatment_for_nightmares) and the sources of this article.

Originally Posted by reckoner

I'm no professional though, and since your problem sounds quite severe to me, you might want to seek help from a professional therapist/psychologist.

I've tried professional help, and it didn't work. I've tried every human remedy to fears of thunder storms know to man. I was really traumatized as a kid; I was locked outside during a T-Storm with a tornado headed right for the house. I do like your idea though, of beating an evil tornado god with super powers that would be so awesome. That is going on my list of goals!

I think that if you want to know the truth of it, you pose the question going into the state. Concentrate on the question "What is Lucid Dreaming for." Now, if your answer is in a visual metaphor, you will have a lot of thinking to do.

One must remember, just the asking of a question does not mean that one will understand the answer. That is something one is going to have to take a chance on.