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    Thread: Having Problems

    1. #1
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      Having Problems

      Hey there. Well before I knew what LDing was and what SP was, I was able to enter SP and still be conscious with my mind. Of course it was all on accident and only happened when I took my morning nap in my dorm after an 8 a.m. class. Now, any time I feel it coming on I get too excited. (I've been using WILD). To make it easier on those who are trying to help me out here, I'll ask my questions in an organized manner. (Questions that I need answered will be in red).

      1. During WILD, can I swallow? (I thought I read somewhere that it will mess it up).

      2. It says to watch the blackness and wait for things to appear. I'm not really sure how I'm supposed to do this. When I try and focus on the backs of my eyes, I feel like I'm doing it wrong. Things such as a yellow or purple dot will come out of no where and start moving around. Eventually they will turn into a bigger dot or maybe a wave of a color and it will move around as well. This is supposed to happen, correct? When it does happen, I'm not sure how I watch it without moving my eyes. It seems like my eyes are twitching or moving to follow the dots and lines. Is it ok that my eyes are moving around? If it helps, my overall question right here is how exactly do I passively watch the darkness/backs of my eyes? I've yet to see a good explanation of this process.

      3. What are some ways that you guys stay calm when you can tell that it's close to coming together and forming a dream?

      4. How long should it take for these colors and things to start forming objects and such?

      Thank you in advance for any advice! Also feel free to ask me questions that might help you answer mine.

    2. #2
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      1. Swallowing will slow you down when it comes to getting to SP and eventually a dream. Most of the time your salivary glands slow down to a crawl so your mouth doesn't overflow while you're asleep (a.k.a. drooling) but when you first lay down it is likely that they'll still be active. It's fine to swallow during the first couple minutes but after that you shouldn't really need to.

      2. Yes, images forming and appearing before you is normal. When these images start becoming noticeable just try your best to zone out a bit. You know, like day dreaming while staring out a window or something. Just don't put all your focus into it since that will likely wake you up. It's a delicate balance and comes easier with practice but it's not very hard.

      3. Think about calm thoughts. Have you ever meditated? If you have then just have the same mindset only with lucid dreaming on your mind. This allows your mind and body to be relaxed and ready for sleep/dreams. If you haven't then it's really just keeping your mind as relaxed as possible. Think soothing thoughts about whatever makes you calm/in a good mood. Personally I enjoy just the peace and quiet and allowing my brain to have nothing on it's mind but it's different for everybody.

      4. Just like before it is different for each person but it is usually after 10-20 minutes. Some people have this happen after only a minute while others need to lay there for 30 minutes or more. It also depends on how quickly you fall asleep and how well you can maintain the balance between a full waking state and a lucid-dream state since they are both cognitively similar. If you don't see any results after 45 minutes or so and it's a normal day or something with stuff going on then I would just fall asleep instead of losing that hour or so. If you don't have anything going on the days you try though then I would just persevere. Worst comes to worst you fall asleep and have a chance at a DILD/DEILD.

      Hope this helps
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    3. #3
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      I like all of Burke's answers, but will add a thought or two. His answers on 3 and 4 are great and I don't have much to add there. I just wrote two threads that may help you a bit, so you can look there for more answers related to this. The first one is WILD "Just Starting? You May be there allready and not know it" or something like that. The other is "Train Your Brain, have more WILDs".
      1) As far as swallowing and scratching and so on. You are trying to trick your body into sleeping before your mind does. Being uncomfortable will make it harder to sleep than being perfectly still. Stay still, but resolve any issues that will keep your body awake.
      2)It is much better if your eyes don't dart around. The second thread talks about the images you see, and the topic of eye movement. Try watching something like the TV with out focusing on anything. The picture will blur a bit. It is called diffuse vision. You take in what crosses your field of vision, but do not trace it with your eyes. So, practice this while awake and then use the same idea when you WILD.
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      Thanks so much to the both of you! VERY helpful information. Hopefully with a combination your input I'll be able to achieve lucidity, maybe even tonight! Actually, I AM going to achieve lucidity. I'm absolutely positive, and I feel that saying it and believing it will allow me to get there even faster. Also Sivason, I'm about to go check out those posts right now. And Burke, based on what you said about the amount of time it takes, I don't think I've been hanging in there and waiting long enough. Maybe that's a large portion of my problem. Thanks again to you both!

      Looking forward to hearing what others have to say as well!

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      I don't have much experience with the way of WILDing you're describing, but I do know that you don't have to see any hypnagogic imagery in order to WILD. When I WILD, I use a mix of watching the swirling colours, visualising and letting my mind wander. When I watch the swirling colours, my eyes move around a lot as well. I don't try to hold them still, because that just keeps me too awake. After a while (with or without lapses in consciousness) I enter sleep paralysis, and then I quickly transition into a dream. I don't see anything during the transition itself, but at the end of it I "wake up" in a dream version of the place where I went to sleep.

      I've seen very vivid images a couple of times, but they just disappeared. I think it was because I stared at them too intently. In my opinion it's much easier to WILD without seeing hypnagogic imagery, but since everyone is different you have to find out what works the best for you. Good luck!
      Last edited by OneiroMoon; 03-09-2012 at 05:24 AM.
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      Quote Originally Posted by OneiroMoon View Post
      but I do know that you don't have to see any hypnagogic imagery in order to WILD. When I WILD, I use a mix of watching the swirling colours, visualising and letting my mind wander. When I watch the swirling colours,.......In my opinion it's much easier to WILD without seeing hypnagogic imagery, but since everyone is different you have to find out what works the best for you. Good luck!
      I hope it is ok for me to comment, I am not trying to be mean. That post is kind of funny. The swirling colors are the classic description of hypnogogic imagery. I guess you are thinking H.I. is something other than I do. Maybe you are thinking complex images? H.I. start out normally as blurs or spots and a bit of motion and then progress into moving patches of color. They can evole into more complex things, but the swirling colours are exactly what you are supposed to see, as for as H.I.
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      Hmm.. interesting. I think it's cool how there are so many different ways of it happening. And within those categories, there are subcategories of different variations. It's different for everyone! I can't wait to find out what "my way" is.

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      ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ OneiroMoon's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by sivason View Post
      I hope it is ok for me to comment, I am not trying to be mean. That post is kind of funny. The swirling colors are the classic description of hypnogogic imagery. I guess you are thinking H.I. is something other than I do. Maybe you are thinking complex images? H.I. start out normally as blurs or spots and a bit of motion and then progress into moving patches of color. They can evole into more complex things, but the swirling colours are exactly what you are supposed to see, as for as H.I.
      At first, I also believed that the colours are hypnagogic imagery as well. But very recently I read something that said the colours are called phosphenes, and that hypnagogic imagery are images that can appear from them. Maybe that's wrong?
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    9. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by OneiroMoon View Post
      At first, I also believed that the colours are hypnagogic imagery as well. But very recently I read something that said the colours are called phosphenes, and that hypnagogic imagery are images that can appear from them. Maybe that's wrong?
      I am not sure what you were reading, but some one mentioned that on another thread. Two things go on with your visual feild when you are zoning out using what ever WILD style you use.
      The first is what the phosphenes example represents. The chemical and random elecrical action on the retina of the eye. Classic example, look at a light and turn off the light, you see an image of the light bulb still. The chemical reaction you just caused will be acting up for hours, causing a shrinking blob of light to be seen. How can you tell that is not H.I.? If you move your eyes the thing you are seeing will shift exactly where your eyes point. If you cut the nerve to the eye, the image would be gone, because it came from the eye. You can transform these shapes using WILD skills, but until you do that these are not H.I.s They can be usefull aids in mental training, but are not H.I.s yet.
      So in that example you are correct, it sounds like something I would like to read about.
      The second thing that can happen on the visual field in WILD attempts are H.I.s the second you see them. Your brain is randomly generating images out of the dreaming part of your brain. These things may shift slowly as you move your eyes, but only because your expecting them to and are exerting slight dream control. They would still be seen if the nerves to the eyes were cut. So, where these colors are 100% dream mind created visual experiences they are H.I.s no matter how slight they are. To over simplify it. Blind people can still lucid dream and have an active visual dream life, If a blind person can see it when doing a WILD it is an H.I.

      I just made a thread about learning to train your brain by exerting dream control on these first minor H.I.s After a while you can create H.I.s just in a light meditation. Search for "Train Your Brain" thread in Inducing Lucidity, if the topic sounds useful to either of you.
      Last edited by sivason; 03-09-2012 at 11:27 PM.
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    10. #10
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      Hello there I actually use WILD as my primary method to induce lucid dreams. Hopefully I can help out some.

      1. As the others have said. Yes you can swallow and scratch for a little bit, but if you notice it proceeds on for 15-20 minutes then you are not yet relaxed. In order for the swallowing and scratching to pass you must enter a relaxed and passive state of mind. Let yourself daydream, if you focus solely on the WILD attempt itself and waiting for the swallowing and itches to stop it will never happen. Just let your mind wonder, feel your breathing slow down. Also I once read in a thread a few years back that your body will send 'false signals' or testers to see if you really are asleep. As you near sleep paralysis and a dream, your body may send a sensation to itch your arm to see if you respond. If you itch, the mental timer countdown till dreamland restarts. If you ignore it your body takes the hint that you are in fact asleep.

      2. The swirling colors are the HI they have mentioned. It's perfectly normal and a good sign you are close to a dream. I totally understand your eyes wanting to follow them since they are practically right I'm front of you but you must resist. Maybe even let your eyes wonder after them for a minute or two but the best way pass this stage I find is to focus on relaxing. Not even necessarily thinking about relaxing situations and such, just feel yourself breathe in and feel it go out. Forget the colors are even there and just let yourself enter a further state of full relaxation. Let your eyes relax and roll as far back as they can and let the colors take their course as they will soon turn into scenes.

      3. It's very exciting when you feel the transition coming on and all of the vibrations. This is the most difficult phase to pass as it is very hard not to get over excited. For me it is usually very crazy and I can get auditory hallucinations. Breathing again is the key here. Focus on the calm relaxed breathing and don't let it get hectic.

      4. The images will form out of the colors as soon as your brain feels it is ready and perfectly set to enter a dream. When you are properly relaxed the colors will begin forming images. If you focus intently and are anticipating the arrival of full blown images and scenese I promise it will never happen. I have been stuck in that phase far too many times. Through practice and development of your personal tricks and tweaks, you will find the balance. In my opinion no one WILDs the same
      Dreams are today's answers to tomorrow's questions. ~ Edgar Cayce

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