Thread: Reading

The transition is so easy, and I can feel it. What is or can be so darned hard is getting to the point when one becomes aware of feeling it.

Take my latest lucid for example: I was on an elevator going up. Woman steps in and says that it does not matter to her whether it is going up or down. Do I become lucid? No, because I am not aware yet. Not paying attention. She starts setting up a poker game at the generously sized card table inside the elevator. Do I become lucid? Not yet, at that point I did not feel anything yet, and I was willing to swallow anything fish, hook, sinker. I was not aware yet. Then I looked at the elevator buttons, and only then do I notice that they are out of order, and thus I start to become aware. Why only then? Are elevator buttons out of order more unusual than a poker table in an elevator? Surely not. But my mind was finally ready out of some reason. I start to emerge from the depth of unawareness. I do a reality check of looking at the numbers - looking away - looking back, but it fails. But by then I could feel it, and I knew. So I thought, "screw it, I don't need a reality check to confirm it. I know I am dreaming." Because by then I knew, whereas at the time when I saw the woman shuffling the cards for her poker game I did not have a clue yet. The feeling emerged during this dream, but at the beginning of the dream I was unaware and the feeling was not there or if it was, I was oblivious to it.

I guess you're just better than the rest of us.

Originally Posted by Aneas

I've been reading the forums. Why is it so hard? The transition is so easy. I don't get it. Do you not feel the change? Everytthing is so much brighter, so real. Be in the moment.

A more interesting question and one you should probably be asking, is why do you feel the need to start these kinds of threads so often?
Is it some kind of superiority thing?

I've said it in another thread, if you're as good at lucid dreaming as you claim and if you find it disturbing as you've said in other threads, then go find a sleep researcher and offer your services. Then maybe you can come back, explain what is going on in your mind, what makes you "different" and maybe solve your own problems to boot. Why wouldn't you do this?

I would like to say one thing that you may have not considered, if what you claim is true, then all you are actually doing is something similar to a very tall man mocking shorter people for not being able to reach the top shelf

"but the top shelf is so easy to reach. Whey is it so hard for you? Reaching out is easy. Do you not feel tall? Everything is so much higher, raised up. Be a tall person"

See how arrogant, inappropriate and pointless that would be? So why is what you are doing different?

Sorry if this comes across as rude, just you seem to come across like you are trying to appear as a dream messiah with vague statements. If you're genuine, offer your services to a scientist studying dreams, you could genuinely be useful.

I'll just add that for the most of us, having a lucid dream is something that takes work We get better with it as we practice and as we work harder. I'm not completely doubting that you may be an unusual case only that your attitude is not helping you out. Are you wealthy? if not then how would you feel if a very rich man who inherited his wealth from his parents never having to work a day in his life, started questioning why you take work so seriously, why you worry about money? You'd just think "what a dick".

So try and have a bit more empathy for those who fall in middle of the bell curve because most people you meet are going to be like that. If you are an outlier, then you need to realise you are different and not alienate yourself, because it can come across as arrogant.

Still I really think if you are genuine then getting in touch with someone who studies the mind would be the best thing you could do.

Actually in Aneas' defense some of his cryptic comments have made a difference. I have used them as a diving board to contemplate stuff about lucid dreams. Before he first mentioned just feeling the difference when dreaming once one becomes lucid, I had not really thought about it. But there definitely is something to it: there is a different perception when in a dream, and one could recognize the dream by this dream feeling I think. Even though dreams can be surprisingly like real life at times in vividness etc, but there is something to it that they feel different in a way that is distinct to the dream state. If only I could remain aware of the feeling and be in tune with it during the dreams, I think that could lead to awareness in all or most dreams if one learns to tune into that feeling, recognizing it right away.

You do bring up a very good point though, spaceexplorer that Aneas has stated that he does not want to be constantly aware, and it is inconsistent then that he is wondering like this why others can't be just like him as easily. I too think that a dream researcher could benefit from Anaes help and might be able to help him.

Edit: To add another point, I think before becoming lucid it's almost like I was not there in the dream. Sure I might have remembered the dream in hindsight, but I had no awareness in the moment. When I emerged into lucidity, started doubting the reality, it's as if I only at that point joined the dream. Perhaps I was out doing something completely different during the nonlucid part, and the dream was just a recording stating that Joanna is not in right now but if you leave a message, she will analyze it later. Once I became aware of the numbers being out of order it was as if I had surfaced from a great depth of unawareness.

there is a different perception when in a dream, and one could recognize the dream by this dream feeling I think.

This is extremely rare (to present without effort), and not yet explained. Other than a few cases (iirc, theres a norwegian girl that showed up in the news because of her lucid dreaming ability). The deal is, "the dream is dreamy" is not very useful or accurate. The thing that happens in the brain compared to waking perception, is a deviation from current brain activation, especially in parts related to memory/and self-consciousness. It's not that the dream is "dreamy": it's simply the person doesn't possess meta-consciousness. Theoretically, we could achieve that same state by TSM/neuromodulation (or at least, I'm inclined to believe so). The perception is the same, the only different is the source of the sensory input. LaBerge explains this in a video:



Besides, the explanation of your "gradual clarity moment" backups the main theory on how we become lucid: due some factor (like memory) we increase brain activity in certain areas (like you can read in this post), and (in most cases) this allows us to realize we are dreaming. This also explains why lucidity comes in terms of lucidity and it's not, as Aneas seems to point out, a all or nothing state. As regarding his position on the "transition", he is incredibly biased (something that we should all think about) due his long-term experience in lucid dreaming. It's like a person with 30 years of driving experience asking a person that drives for 1 week how can they have had that accident.

You might become lucid all the time, but you are clueless as how you do it Aneas. This is not an attack, it's just a fact. Becoming lucid because "everything seems 'dreamy'" doesn't give you any authority to talk about "how can you fail something this easy?". And that's the insulting part of your topics.

Aneas, it is as difficult for me to understand naturals as it is for you to understand regular dreamers.

Probably, the shock you felt when you discovered most people don´t lucid dream, it's the same or less shock i felt when i knew it was even possible.

We, regular dreamers, apply some degree of effort and intention, and that is hard enough.

Also, we have the ability to choose lucidity or not