Thread: Ready to give up.

sorry man i can't give you tips if you dont give me any specifics...how long have you been trying? what methods have you tried? have you been keeping a dream journal? have you remembered to do reality checks? do you have a specific sleep pattern?????????

There is only one thread in this forum and maybe on the entire internet that contains everything you need to know about absolute mastery of lucid dreaming. It's written by the famous Sageous
http://www.dreamviews.com/wild/12557...mentals-q.html

It basically says you have to master self-awareness and memory to master LDing. If this article doesn't help you out, you are not human. So what then? Go to a big medical labaratory or hospital, they will pay you big money for the research and testing and measuring they do on you.

Cheers, Ginsan

Sure, we would be happy to help. Let's see.

1. How do you practice?
2. Have you read our tutorials?

Why? Why would you want to give up on lucid dreaming?

All things that are worth doing take effort. By saying "I don't understand why I can't" you've already accepted defeat. Inducing Lucid Dreams is something that requires sheer determination and motivation. Motivation is something I've repeated time and time again as being an essential to Lucid Dreaming. As the others have mentioned, what is it that you are doing? What techniques and methods? What have you practiced, what have you been doing throughout your waking life, hell, have you even thought that maybe you're dreaming now? We're all here to help.

Thanks for the replies everyone.

1. I've been attempting or at least trying to attempt every night by either trying to persuade myself it's going to happen or use the WBTB method. I've discovered my REM seems to take place around anywhere from 6-7:45am which I find rather strange.

A few times I've remembered the dreams, but I never got to the LD part. Once I got too excited and left the dream, and then the alarm clock went off the other time.

I have excellent memory and a great imagination ( I write Fantasy Fiction) so I would thought that could help.

I did have an OBE/Dream experience during wisdom teeth surgery this past November and felt like I was floating above everyone and could see myself being wheel chaired into the recovery room.

By the way, I did have a dream that was actually one I had when I was like ten, eleven? Some age close to that. Has anyone had that happen?



But everything was last month and the dream activity has been nothing right now. I am active and work out 2-3 times a week. Just very frustrated.

Well, you said you did have a lucid dream, it's just that you woke up after the realisation, which is the most common thing to happen in your first lucid dream. And actually, it wasn't even your first, for what you said I understand you had had a lucid as a child. This had also happened to me, and I remember clearly the day I went running to my parents saying I had realised I was dreaming in the dream. I didn't know this was such a thing until a year and something ago.

I think if there's one reason why children can have a lucid dream more easily is because they are very curious. They watch everything around them, discovering the world every day. That also makes them more observant in their dreams and that's why they can more easily notice weird things. This is, sadly, a skill we lose as adults, specially with all the stress we live with. When we walk around in auto-pilot mode, we decrease our chances of becoming lucid. It's hard to get out of it and be aware of what's around you, lucid living like a child. I myself struggle a lot with this and I very much believe this is what's slowing down my progress.

It's hard to get started, when you have your first lucid dream and you awaken right away it's quite disappointing and it's easy to feel like giving up if you don't have another one soon. Just don't give up, it may take time, but if you put effort in it, it will eventually come. I know this is sooner said than done, but I have felt like this too, and I guess the majority of other lucid dreamers have also at some point. However, don't get stressed up over it. Sometimes I've felt like I needed a lucid so badly that it just wouldn't come. Putting pressure on yourself is a major setback as well. Try not to compare yourself with other family members who more easily have lucids than you.

Hope this inspires you a bit

Yeah Martakartus is absolutely right. Just keep trying hard enough and some day you will get it. I really meant it when I said that that single thread by Sageous is enough to achieve absolute mastery of the lucid dreaming skill. Here is a part of the intro.

Spoiler for Sageous self-awareness:

Self-awareness is nothing more -- or less -- than being aware that you are here, that you have an effect on everything around you, and everything around you has an effect on you. This sounds like a no-brainer, but it’s a lot harder to master than it sounds. Most people are content to live their entire lives without a moment of self-awareness, content to let the events of their world wash over them and to remain unaware of how the things they do and say touch those events…sort of living life like it’s a dream, I suppose. Perfecting self-awareness is simple: pay attention! Unfortunately, humans are naturally wired to not pay this sort of attention, so it takes a lot of work to stay focused and not lapse back into the easy strides taken by those who travel life without ever once checking the path.

A tip for improving memory

Spoiler for Sageous memory:

To improve memory? I recommend a trip to the bookstore or online store, because there's a lot of stuff available out there far beyond my meager suggestions. That said, I've found that getting into a habit of asking yourself what, exactly, you were doing fifteen minutes ago helps a lot. Also, you should always include an attempt to remember something (like, where is my sleeping body? What's the date today?) in your "becoming aware routine during the LD. Crappy answer, I know, but memory is a bear, and should be treated that way.

This thread is a lot to read and even more to think about about and even more to apply. If you still haven't given up, this should get get you wherever you want to go with LDing.

Originally Posted by Ginsan

Yeah Martakartus is absolutely right. Just keep trying hard enough and some day you will get it. I really meant it when I said that that single thread by Sageous is enough to achieve absolute mastery of the lucid dreaming skill. Here is a part of the intro.

Spoiler for Sageous self-awareness:

Self-awareness is nothing more -- or less -- than being aware that you are here, that you have an effect on everything around you, and everything around you has an effect on you. This sounds like a no-brainer, but it’s a lot harder to master than it sounds. Most people are content to live their entire lives without a moment of self-awareness, content to let the events of their world wash over them and to remain unaware of how the things they do and say touch those events…sort of living life like it’s a dream, I suppose. Perfecting self-awareness is simple: pay attention! Unfortunately, humans are naturally wired to not pay this sort of attention, so it takes a lot of work to stay focused and not lapse back into the easy strides taken by those who travel life without ever once checking the path.

A tip for improving memory

Spoiler for Sageous memory:

To improve memory? I recommend a trip to the bookstore or online store, because there's a lot of stuff available out there far beyond my meager suggestions. That said, I've found that getting into a habit of asking yourself what, exactly, you were doing fifteen minutes ago helps a lot. Also, you should always include an attempt to remember something (like, where is my sleeping body? What's the date today?) in your "becoming aware routine during the LD. Crappy answer, I know, but memory is a bear, and should be treated that way.

This thread is a lot to read and even more to think about about and even more to apply. If you still haven't given up, this should get get you wherever you want to go with LDing.

I had a look at the thread a while ago, I had never read it. Great thread. I love it when I find someone putting things in a different way, new insights are always welcome.

I can't say, I am completely sure about it - but I believe that starting to do self-hypnosis has helped me no end.
When I did the first 3 sessions, I had short LDs associated (over the following 2/3 days) each time.
Then I didn't do anything for a couple of weeks and had no LDs.
Now after the fourth repetition, I got lucid three nights in a row - the last one of these was yesterday. And the last two were proper ones, not mini-LDs.
So maybe try it out as something novel and promising - I use this:

Instant Self-Hypnosis - How To Hypnotize Yourself With Your Eyes Wide Open

It has a protocol for recall and for LDing - I am in the process of adding my own suggestions at the moment.
Good luck!

Here are a few thoughts that I hope haven't already been presented:

Originally Posted by DragonSword

1. I've been attempting or at least trying to attempt every night by either trying to persuade myself it's going to happen or use the WBTB method. I've discovered my REM seems to take place around anywhere from 6-7:45am which I find rather strange.

You might consider trying less often; maybe once a week -- preferably on a day when you can be able to sleep as late as you want. That way you can look forward to your upcoming effort, and really make it an event, rather than something you try every night... and also there will be a much less of a routine of failure that comes with missed attempts every time you go to sleep.

Also, you are having REM periods all night, even if you don't remember them.

A few times I've remembered the dreams, but I never got to the LD part. Once I got too excited and left the dream, and then the alarm clock went off the other time.

That sounds more like progress than a problem! You might try valuing these moments as baby steps in the right direction, and think about how you will improve upon them next time they occur... and here is a case where it would have been better to attempt to LD at a time when alarm clocks can be left off.

I have excellent memory and a great imagination ( I write Fantasy Fiction) so I would thought that could help.

It sure will help, especially after you've advanced enough to need stabilization and content... but for now it's more about self-awareness and patience, I think.

But everything was last month and the dream activity has been nothing right now. I am active and work out 2-3 times a week. Just very frustrated.

"Last month" is not a very long time ago. There are people who went without LD's for a year or more, and still held out hope.

I also notice you didn't say much about your daytime work. Are you doing RC's regularly? Are you working on your self-awareness? Have you tried doing any MILD exercises to develop your memory? Are you thinking positively about your next attempt, building solid expectations? The daytime work is probably more important than the actual attempt; try to make a priority of it!

From what you've said so far, it seems to me that you've got many more things to do or try before it's time to give up. So I suggest that you try to be positive, browse these forums for advice or encouragement, and work on the fundamentals, like Ginsan already said.

tl;dr: Don't give up yet, DragonSword, as there is still much to be done and tried!

Good luck!

I understand your frustration as I'm feeling the same. I have had several LDs, but all of them only lasted less than a minutes. I've been taking supplements and they don't seem to work on me. But I'm not giving up, because I really want to do it.

I honestly don't understand why my parents and sister can do it more than I. My sister claims she can do it a lot. My parents do it every once in a while, or at least they remember. Hopefully one will happen tonight.

I do suffer from insomnia and the doctor prescribed Trazadone because of how bad it was getting. Surprisingly I haven't had any side affects like vivid dreams or nightmares. I'm wondering if my mind is stubborn.

I finally stomped my foot in frustration and told myself to LD tonight. Lol.

Originally Posted by DragonSword

I finally stomped my foot in frustration and told myself to LD tonight. Lol.

I've found that whipping my SC around a bit helps sometimes! "Ok, cut the crap, lucidity TONIGHT, SC, you hear that!?"

Expectation and mindset is extremely important to LDing: frustration can lead to a vicious feedback cycle of performance anxiety / poor outcomes. Stay positive, do the daytime work (you have still not yet mentioned your daytime practice!) with excitement, work on dream recall to start with. Don't compare yourself to anybody else, dreaming is personal.

Insomnia sucks. Is your variety bed-time or middle of the night? The flipside to insomnia is that some say that the best lucid dreamers tend to be light sleepers: so if you can conquer your insomnia you may be in a perfect spot for lucid dreaming! Sleep performance anxiety is also a vicious cycle: insomnia -> anxiety -> insomnia.

Teaching yourself how to fall asleep, and maintaining the mental discipline it takes to perform relaxation until you fall asleep, is extremely rewarding, not only in life in general, but in dreaming.

I now (almost) welcome middle of the night slow-to-sleep scenarios as perfect times to practice WILD, SSILD, visualisation for dreaming, etc. I'm finding that getting back to sleep from a very aware starting point leads to the absolute best dreams, non-lucid or lucid.

Love The Journey!

I'll just put in my two cents..

I started with lucid dreaming and I also had some difficulty in the beginning and was a frustrated beginner. But then I got a little more interested in the theory behind it all and I got some successes, eventually I became a Dream Guide on this forum helped other people to get their first lucid dream. The majority of these people didn't continued the practise though and I haven't heard from them again. I then realized that I was all cool and "wise" on this forum, but for real I was socially awkward, talking philosophy and the meaning of life with random people and my friends, and I didn't had an active dating life, atleast not the kind you should have by the age of 18.

So I took a break myself from active practise of lucid dreaming. And I started with pick up, the art of seduction. I started to listen to a "guru" called Tyler on Youtube.
At first he was all about techniques of how to make a girl like you, how to make a girl attracted, how to make a girl give her your phone number, but as he got more experienced he realized it was more about living a successful life and your natural behavior will be that of an attractive guy. And the success with girls is more of a mindset than a technique.

I am now rapidly improving my social abilities, and I am getting really good at handling my emotions.

This weekend I went out to the club by myself sober, no friends to rely on and no alcohol to give me courage. And I had the two best nights of my life because I was having so much fun, making out with different girls and having a blast with lots of people.

I was very surprised over my own behavior and well I started to think about one very important question: What had changed?

Before I was always whining about not knowing how to dare to approach a girl or not knowing what to say or not knowing how to avoid rejection.

But now I was approaching almost every single person in the club, talking without really thinking and without knowing where it all came from, and well getting rejected without even caring or taking it personally.

This reminded me of the beginners I taught on this forum wondering, what is the best technique? What do I do to WILD? How do I avoid falling asleep unconsciously or moving while WILDing? How do I avoid waking up from a lucid dream. etc.

And well my point of this post is to show that the principles of success can be applied to anything!

I know started my lucid dreaming again and applied the same principles from game to my lucid dreaming practise.

What a successful person does that the frustrated beginner doesn't, is to enjoy the process.

It takes discipline and wont happen over a night, but that doesn't matter, the only thing that matters is that your practise is aimed in this direction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nnzCeeAYT0

Think about this simple fact, if you practise EVERY single day on something consistently, isn't it obvious that one will eventually master it? Or atleast improve significally at it.

If you approach 1000 girls, isn't it atleast likely that one of them will like you? Or atleast you will get better at talking to girls.
If you practise lucid dreaming 1000 times, isn't it likely that you will have atleast one lucid dream? Or atleast get a better understanding of it? Of course! And the truth is that it wont even take 1000 trys. (Thank God)

This is easy to say, harder to do. And the reason that it is hard to do is because it's logically easy to understand emotionally hard to do.
Your emotions will be your only obstacle, whining about how it is hard or impossible, finding excuses not to do it, for example "I can't find the right technique." or "The technique doesn't work!".

So here is what you do (atleast what I applied in the club):

Decide that you are fully going to trust the PROCESS and enoy the JOURNEY, then tell yourself that failures doesn't matter the only thing that matters is that you take actions that you know will help you. Meditate daily for example <- Helps with everything in your life. Read books of other successful people <- Helps with everything in your life! Eat GOOD FOOD and exercise <- Helps with everything in your life!

And realize that the result doesn't matter, only your action does.

When you truly trust this process my night out alone sober went like this: I went out sleep-deprived and cranky, but I went to the club and approached every girl and slowly got out of my head and got warmed up socially. Then as I get in a more fun and social state, some girls start to like me (however this is not what I focus on), I am just out doing the right action, saying whatever comes to mind to girls. Alot of them hate me because I am socially weird at first, but I don't judge myself because I am happy just over the fact that I dared to approach them. Then eventually I find a hot attractive girl that likes me BAM good to go.

When I then go to sleep I got lots of thoughts in my head so it's hard to enter a thoughtless-state which makes it easier to focus the non-physical state.
But that doesn't matter, my only critera is that I practise at all and I love the process of gonig from a sh*t load of negative thoughts and stress to the peaceful and bliss nothingness. Then some hypnagogic imagery might appear, but again I don't care or judge it or analyze it I just enjoy the doing of nothing. At first I will not be able to mantain this nothingness state, because I have lots of thoughts and I need to warmup my mind mentally. But then as this state of nothingness deepens I will focus on something non-physical and BAM I am good to go.

Realize that even if I walk home alone from the club or if every girl rejects me (never happens though), or if I fall asleep during my lucid dreaming practise or if the thoughts never dissapear (never happens though). EVEN IF THIS HAPPENS, I am still happy with myself! WHY?

Because the result doesn't matter, only my action!

I hope someone find this post useful and can apply it to something they want to master in their life.

And here is a good quote on persistence:

"If you stop doing something and you SAY you want this or that, you didn't reallt wanted it, you just kind of wanted it."

TL: DR - Love the practise of something not the result of something - And you will succeed.

Also since a beginner might not be able to approach a ton of women the first time he goes to a club or might not be able to achieve the nothingness state and mantain it, a beginners only critera of success and action should be lowered even more.

For example a beginner might not dare to go to the club alone and perhaps not even dare to be social, he can therefore instead go out and talk smalltalk to stranger, ask for the time or directions or just be nice in general to strangers. And perhaps go out together with friends. And a beginner might not be inclined to want to try out meditation or the WILD technique, so instead he/she can just find some lucid dreaming technique that motivates him/her or just read up on lucid dreaming in general. Perhaps just try out 5 min meditation a day.

Love the journey at whatever level you are at!

A good video on loving the journey: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MArNrPEOUKA
A good video on meditation by Tyler himself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a5fO8jE7mc

Really good stuff, MasterMind, and your ending quote is right on the money.

Thanks everyone.

I did manage to hit REM and was aware of it, but during the soundtrack I was using which was thunder and rain, I thought at one point the thunder was real. Lol. I woke myself up because I got scared. I think I was really close.

Hey it just hit me: Everybody is jealous of your family. I have only a single friend that is slightly interested in lucid dreaming or dreaming. Good to hear you're doing better.

Yes! I either had a brief second of astral experience or was lucid.

I attempted another WILD while having a nap, and for a moment I experienced a feeling of floating, and before that I could swear I heard something like someone talking. The objects in my room started to have a yellowish/blackish glow. All I did to not frighten myself was repeating the thought that everything is an illusion. I had read some stories where people hallucinate during SP.

Was this a short LD or astral experience? I'm also a little confused between the difference of the two.

You should maximize your dream recall before you do anything else, otherwise you won't even remember any possible lucid dreams you do have.
It's very possible that you have already had several lucid dreams, but then forgotten them.

sounds to me like the transition between waking and sleeping, you basically witness your body falling asleep. So that's quite a step! This is kind of a milestone and you should notice it as one.

I dont know how to help but here is my motto: "if other people can i can do it too"

Originally Posted by StephL

I can't say, I am completely sure about it - but I believe that starting to do self-hypnosis has helped me no end.
When I did the first 3 sessions, I had short LDs associated (over the following 2/3 days) each time.
Then I didn't do anything for a couple of weeks and had no LDs.
Now after the fourth repetition, I got lucid three nights in a row - the last one of these was yesterday. And the last two were proper ones, not mini-LDs.
So maybe try it out as something novel and promising - I use this:

Instant Self-Hypnosis - How To Hypnotize Yourself With Your Eyes Wide Open

It has a protocol for recall and for LDing - I am in the process of adding my own suggestions at the moment.
Good luck!

I just tried it, it was very good. The only problem is that I yawned way too many times while doing the introduction. With the dim light and the relaxing suggestions I felt sleepy... Anyway, I'll keep doing it and see if I get results.

Hey Martakartus - coool - looking forward to hearing how it goes for you!
Follow this link for a text format transfer I did - easy to print and modify: http://www.dreamviews.com/dild/14763...ml#post2103552
I also have a problem with being totally bored by it meanwhile and I put off the fifth time - despite being somehow convinced, that this repetition might be the one to anchor it properly.

And one more thing to DragonSword:

Tradozone is an antidepressant and has multiple effects on neurotransmission.
It is very sedative - and that among other mechanisms by dampening certain central pathways for norepinephrine - could be that this makes it more, or much more difficult to become lucid. Could be, mind you.
If this is really solely meant as sleep-medication - try Melatonin - it works fantastically and has no side effects in low doses.
In higher ones (over 6 mg), it only makes you tired the next day - really not dangerous. The body makes it itself, you can get it free of prescription, too - and it doesn't interfere with lucidity - it could even help.
American docs - non-psychiatrists, unfortunately - have a reputation of prescribing psychopharmaca for all sorts of things - wouldn't surprise me..

If the Tradozone is (also) for depression - first of all, there could lie the reason for your despair with LDing - in depression one tends to despair with everything. And once the fog has left your brain - it will look very, very differently!
So if you need it, and it works and doesn't bother you - go on with it until your mood is back to normal and stabilized of course!
It's good you have no obvious side-effects - but if it fails to work well - you could also ask for another anti-depressant - the modern ones are almost all very agreeable - but nobody knows (yet), what any of them do to LDing.