Will lucid dreaming become illegal one day ?

**lucidusorbis** · 06-23-2014 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Freda

This all comes down to the technology. I can't really see a machine that helps induce lucid dreams during normal sleep become very problematic(maybe some psychological effects?) nor controversial. You couldn't really abuse such a machine very much either as it'd share the same constraints as we do already, like only getting a limited amount of sleep(and REM sleep) each day. If, however, the machine could induce REM sleep in addition to natural sleep there would almost certainly be abuse, but the solution to that would probably be banning the machine rather than the lucid dreaming itself. I don't see lucid dreaming as we know it becoming illegal anytime soon(ever).

Totally agree with you , but the impact of such a machine on the world would defiantly be huge.

**lucidusorbis** · 06-23-2014 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by MisakaMikoto

Your post gave me idea of ultimate lucid dreaming machine
It would include few modes
1. tACS 40 HZ Stimulation
2. REM-Detection (With configurable delay after rem begins so machine can make you lucid at specific time)
3. Optional ability for machine to display special lights and play special sounds at choosen time by your configuration

This combination would result in probably around 90% induction rate

I'm assuming the people during experimental tACS stimulation did not have a WBTB
With WBTB induction rate could go even higher

That would be great , also a perfect machine would study your sleep cycle and wave pattern every day and adjust it self accordingly like a smart feedback mechanism , experimenting different frequencies at different times and seeing your response without anyone intervention would definitely be cool , what do you think ?

**lucidusorbis** · 06-23-2014 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by Hukif

Question!

How?

Seriously, how? The government will invent a machine that allows them to see your dreams and a very cheap brain-wave-reading-machine and then monitor every citizen of their city to some old-bored man so that they check you aren't becoming lucid? I was LDing for years without anyone knowing, so don't see how it owuld be possible to keep such a law. Maybe discredit or belittle it to make it less popular, but a ban would if at all, just make it all the more appealing and have the opposite effect.

You know how they tried with the crazy guy who had a DJ? I bet they would pick up random people and accuse them of the same, but a ban makes no sense with our current technology. I guess it depends on how cheap it would be to monitor dreamers?

Its very highly unlikely that natural lucid dreaming could or would be banned , and as you said if they try to ban it it would lead to an opposite effect , like when a movie is tagged as +18 so that everyone under that age watch it after stating yes am above 18 lol , who didn't do that

**MisakaMikoto** · 06-23-2014 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by lucidusorbis

That would be great , also a perfect machine would study your sleep cycle and wave pattern every day and adjust it self accordingly like a smart feedback mechanism , experimenting different frequencies at different times and seeing your response without anyone intervention would definitely be cool , what do you think ?

That'd be probably the best ever ld machine

**Freda** · 06-23-2014 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by Hukif

Question!

How?

Seriously, how? The government will invent a machine that allows them to see your dreams and a very cheap brain-wave-reading-machine and then monitor every citizen of their city to some old-bored man so that they check you aren't becoming lucid? I was LDing for years without anyone knowing, so don't see how it owuld be possible to keep such a law. Maybe discredit or belittle it to make it less popular, but a ban would if at all, just make it all the more appealing and have the opposite effect.

You know how they tried with the crazy guy who had a DJ? I bet they would pick up random people and accuse them of the same, but a ban makes no sense with our current technology. I guess it depends on how cheap it would be to monitor dreamers?

This is an interesting question. If the government wanted to prevent people from lucid dreaming I think the most effective way would be to discredit it as you say, preferably as a part of education. For example, the reason most of us don't abuse drugs isn't primarily because it's illegal, but rather because we know it's bad for us. If people were taught of lucid dreaming is bad like they're taught drug abuse is bad they'd probably avoid doing it even though no one can actually stop them.

**MrPriority** · 06-23-2014 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by lucidusorbis

That would be great , also a perfect machine would study your sleep cycle and wave pattern every day and adjust it self accordingly like a smart feedback mechanism , experimenting different frequencies at different times and seeing your response without anyone intervention would definitely be cool , what do you think ?

Why stop there? A perfect machine wouldn't even rely on you falling asleep. Why wait for that. Artificially make someone fall asleep, then induce a LD. Instant Lucid Dream. Whenever you want.

Still, even if these kind of scenarios would happen. They would be quite a while down the road. People are not looking forward to these kind of machines. They fear them. Even though technology might not take that long to get these machines, I think you almost need an entire new generation of kids to make them really popular.

**lucidusorbis** · 06-23-2014 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by MrPriority

Why stop there? A perfect machine wouldn't even rely on you falling asleep. Why wait for that. Artificially make someone fall asleep, then induce a LD. Instant Lucid Dream. Whenever you want.

Still, even if these kind of scenarios would happen. They would be quite a while down the road. People are not looking forward to these kind of machines. They fear them. Even though technology might not take that long to get these machines, I think you almost need an entire new generation of kids to make them really popular.

Ya man why not induce sleep chemically or electrically then induce rem sleep by stimulating a part of the brain then inducing lucid dreaming , then manipulating the lucid dream itself by using audio visual cues like that used in a light & sound mind machine , how cool is that , and about the people not being ready , man high school boys are always ready am sure you know what i mean lol.

**MrPriority** · 06-23-2014 02:12 PM

Haha very true! Though high school boys are not the majority of the people. And they typically don't have much money, so they are not the people who will buy these machines. Their parents will be the ones buying them, so you need to convince them

Which will be tough, until the high school boys grow up and buy one themselves. That is what I meant with the new generation.

**lucidusorbis** · 06-23-2014 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by MrPriority

Haha very true! Though high school boys are not the majority of the people. And they typically don't have much money, so they are not the people who will buy these machines. Their parents will be the ones buying them, so you need to convince them

Which will be tough, until the high school boys grow up and buy one themselves. That is what I meant with the new generation.

Ill make sure to buy one for my kid when he comes , ill be the best daddy ever

**lucidusorbis** · 06-23-2014 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by Freda

This is an interesting question. If the government wanted to prevent people from lucid dreaming I think the most effective way would be to discredit it as you say, preferably as a part of education. For example, the reason most of us don't abuse drugs isn't primarily because it's illegal, but rather because we know it's bad for us. If people were taught of lucid dreaming is bad like they're taught drug abuse is bad they'd probably avoid doing it even though no one can actually stop them.

I guess that's already happening with the educational system flaging everything paranormal as a hoax and any one who believes them is a freak or something , and yes there is not much a government can do if its not in line with the public believes,

**Marm** · 06-23-2014 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by sivason

A LD machine would certainly be highly regulated out of fear it may cause brain damage. No one will ever attempt to control good old fashioned LDing.

kinda like the movie Paprika?

**lucidusorbis** · 06-23-2014 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by Marm

kinda like the movie Paprika?

Don't know that movie, can you tell us the story line ?

**Marm** · 06-23-2014 05:14 PM

Based on a novel by the noted Japanese science fiction writer Yasutaka Tsutui, the brilliant and unsettling feature Paprika is an exploration of the disturbingly permeable boundaries between dreams and reality.

Techno-geek Kosaku Tokita invented the DC Mini to allow therapists to enter a patient's dreams and explore his unconscious, but an evil cabal uses the Mini to create a mass nightmare that causes multiple suicides. Psychotherapist Atsuko Chiba uses her alter-identity, "dream detective" Paprika, to intervene. Entering the nightmare, she witness a bizarre parade of appliances, toys, and kitsch objects: all of her intelligence and imagination are needed to escape this nightmare and its perpetrators. Paprika effortlessly carries the audience between reality and fantasy: a feast for the senses.

**Marm** · 06-23-2014 05:16 PM

^amazon movie description

**lucidusorbis** · 06-23-2014 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by Marm

Based on a novel by the noted Japanese science fiction writer Yasutaka Tsutui, the brilliant and unsettling feature Paprika is an exploration of the disturbingly permeable boundaries between dreams and reality.

Techno-geek Kosaku Tokita invented the DC Mini to allow therapists to enter a patient's dreams and explore his unconscious, but an evil cabal uses the Mini to create a mass nightmare that causes multiple suicides. Psychotherapist Atsuko Chiba uses her alter-identity, "dream detective" Paprika, to intervene. Entering the nightmare, she witness a bizarre parade of appliances, toys, and kitsch objects: all of her intelligence and imagination are needed to escape this nightmare and its perpetrators. Paprika effortlessly carries the audience between reality and fantasy: a feast for the senses.

sounds deep

**lucidusorbis** · 06-23-2014 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by AdviceDoc

You're right about being able to ban various physical things. I definitely don't know what will happen in the future, but I do find it unlikely this would happen anytime soon, unless there was some evidence it was unhealthy in some way. As seen with the slow legalization of marijuana, people are starting to realize propaganda is BS most of the time.

Interesting to think about for sure!

Maybe we should try traveling to the future via lucid dreaming and see what happens

**sci4me** · 06-24-2014 05:59 AM

No. 1. it is possible to have lucid dreams without trying and have no/little way to stop/control it. 2. You can't control people's dreams... you cant know if they're having a lucid dream. If you could, it would involve brainwave monitoring hardware to detect it.. which I will not let be anywhere near me when I'm sleeping.

**Rodrodrod** · 06-24-2014 07:30 AM

In a scenario like this I would imagine shared dreaming is a more definitive thing, as people can instantly induce lucid dreams, there would be lots of time and ways to explore things like shared dreaming. Perhaps then, the government could use that to monitor people who are dreaming somehow and have a sort of dreaming police from within the dream.

That would be the ultimate weapon of the government, entering people's dreams...

**lucidusorbis** · 06-24-2014 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by Rodrodrod

In a scenario like this I would imagine shared dreaming is a more definitive thing, as people can instantly induce lucid dreams, there would be lots of time and ways to explore things like shared dreaming. Perhaps then, the government could use that to monitor people who are dreaming somehow and have a sort of dreaming police from within the dream.

That would be the ultimate weapon of the government, entering people's dreams...

This though crossed my mined for a second "the dream police" imagine if a dream detective could get into a suspect subconscious in his dream . They will get coarses in dream and subconscious language interpretation , and with the shared dreaming experience you could higher a dream translator to translate your dream, there is just so much potential for a reliable lucid dreaming machine but would you live in a world were police lives in your dream also

**Darkmatters** · 06-24-2014 08:07 AM

No need for police, the machine would just be online by default and go straight to the NSA…

**Marm** · 06-24-2014 11:59 AM

^rofl

**lucidusorbis** · 06-24-2014 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

No need for police, the machine would just be online by default and go straight to the NSA…

Looks like youl become the new Snowden , unveiling the NSA dream conspiracy , they will probably lock you up in a night mare and used shared dreaming to interrogate you using your worst fears from you subconscious lol

**lucidmats** · 06-24-2014 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by Freda

This is an interesting question. If the government wanted to prevent people from lucid dreaming I think the most effective way would be to discredit it as you say, preferably as a part of education. For example, the reason most of us don't abuse drugs isn't primarily because it's illegal, but rather because we know it's bad for us. If people were taught of lucid dreaming is bad like they're taught drug abuse is bad they'd probably avoid doing it even though no one can actually stop them.

I totally agree! And sadly lucidusorbis is also right! Hopefully that won´t ever happen.. They´d take us even our last chance to talk to people about LD. Most people still think I´m nuts talking about it

**Darkmatters** · 06-24-2014 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by lucidusorbis

Looks like youl become the new Snowden , unveiling the NSA dream conspiracy , they will probably lock you up in a night mare and used shared dreaming to interrogate you using your worst fears from you subconscious lol

**AdviceDoc** · 06-24-2014 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by Freda

This is an interesting question. If the government wanted to prevent people from lucid dreaming I think the most effective way would be to discredit it as you say, preferably as a part of education. For example, the reason most of us don't abuse drugs isn't primarily because it's illegal, but rather because we know it's bad for us. If people were taught of lucid dreaming is bad like they're taught drug abuse is bad they'd probably avoid doing it even though no one can actually stop them.

Because that's worked so well. The war on drugs is a complete failure. So would the war or lucid dreaming. I honestly can't see them being able to stop anyone ever. Which is a good thing