Thread: Will lucid dreaming become illegal one day ?

Originally Posted by Laurelindo

Comparing lucid dreaming practice to smoking opium is the stupidest thing I have ever heard in my whole life.

get ready to hear it in the media then , cause i bet you , you will .

Originally Posted by lucidusorbis

get ready to hear it in the media then , cause i bet you , you will .

One would assume that a completely natural state like lucid dreaming should be respected, though.
You don't even need any chemicals to induce lucid dreams, you can get them with your own willpower.

I can understand that people are freaked out by it because it is something they are not familiar with, but making it illegal sounds absolutely pathetic.

Originally Posted by Laurelindo

One would assume that a completely natural state like lucid dreaming should be respected, though.
You don't even need any chemicals to induce lucid dreams, you can get them with your own willpower.

I can understand that people are freaked out by it because it is something they are not familiar with, but making it illegal sounds absolutely pathetic.

That's the point am trying to make , how dysfunctional and pathetic things can look like, what do you think of banning DMT , which is completely natural and is found in almost every food you eat , aint that pathetic , ya it is but its real , lucid dreaming could never be banned but lucid dreaming machines will raise a lot of debate and when that happens lucid dreaming even if natural would be a social taboo .

Originally Posted by Laurelindo

I have no idea why people who don't practice lucid dreaming can be so freaked out by the whole phenomenon.
They seem to believe that it is some kind of possession or something.

people put the paranormal in one basket so that demons and possessions and black magic and lucid dreaming would be all in one category in most peoples mind. A funny thing to consider is that the church could advise people not to lucid dream cause it could lead to possession , how about that excuse , it will sound nice for a lot of people who are afraid of anything profound .

This is a really interesting thread and idea, it does however, seem unlikely.

I guess that if we had access to machines with 95% induction success rate then it would probably be very tempting to use them very often;
kind of like wanting to play an extremely good video game as often as possible, but even more amazing.

Personally I think anyone who buys a machine like that should prove that they are mentally stable.
It would probably be extremely dangerous for schizophrenic people to use lucid dreaming machines, since those people already have a twisted perpective of reality.

Originally Posted by Laurelindo

I guess that if we had access to machines with 95% induction success rate then it would probably be very tempting to use them very often;
kind of like wanting to play an extremely good video game as often as possible, but even more amazing.

Personally I think anyone who buys a machine like that should prove that they are mentally stable.
It would probably be extremely dangerous for schizophrenic people to use lucid dreaming machines, since those people already have a twisted perpective of reality.

Ya and am sure epilepsy would be an issue too since it probably could cause seizures, interestingly enough that's exactly what happened when someone with epilepsy had a seizure following using a light and sound machine and the next day the FBI raided the company that manufactures that mind machine although it was clearly stated on the machine cover that it shouldn't be used by anyone with epilepsy but since the government is allergic to anything of that kind they raided the place without thinking that even a TV can trigger a seizure for someone with epilepsy .

This all comes down to the technology. I can't really see a machine that helps induce lucid dreams during normal sleep become very problematic(maybe some psychological effects?) nor controversial. You couldn't really abuse such a machine very much either as it'd share the same constraints as we do already, like only getting a limited amount of sleep(and REM sleep) each day. If, however, the machine could induce REM sleep in addition to natural sleep there would almost certainly be abuse, but the solution to that would probably be banning the machine rather than the lucid dreaming itself. I don't see lucid dreaming as we know it becoming illegal anytime soon(ever).

Originally Posted by Freda

This all comes down to the technology. I can't really see a machine that helps induce lucid dreams during normal sleep become very problematic(maybe some psychological effects?) nor controversial. You couldn't really abuse such a machine very much either as it'd share the same constraints as we do already, like only getting a limited amount of sleep(and REM sleep) each day. If, however, the machine could induce REM sleep in addition to natural sleep there would almost certainly be abuse, but the solution to that would probably be banning the machine rather than the lucid dreaming itself. I don't see lucid dreaming as we know it becoming illegal anytime soon(ever).

Totally agree with you , but the impact of such a machine on the world would defiantly be huge.

Question!

How?

Seriously, how? The government will invent a machine that allows them to see your dreams and a very cheap brain-wave-reading-machine and then monitor every citizen of their city to some old-bored man so that they check you aren't becoming lucid? I was LDing for years without anyone knowing, so don't see how it owuld be possible to keep such a law. Maybe discredit or belittle it to make it less popular, but a ban would if at all, just make it all the more appealing and have the opposite effect.

You know how they tried with the crazy guy who had a DJ? I bet they would pick up random people and accuse them of the same, but a ban makes no sense with our current technology. I guess it depends on how cheap it would be to monitor dreamers?

Originally Posted by Hukif

Question!

How?

Seriously, how? The government will invent a machine that allows them to see your dreams and a very cheap brain-wave-reading-machine and then monitor every citizen of their city to some old-bored man so that they check you aren't becoming lucid? I was LDing for years without anyone knowing, so don't see how it owuld be possible to keep such a law. Maybe discredit or belittle it to make it less popular, but a ban would if at all, just make it all the more appealing and have the opposite effect.

You know how they tried with the crazy guy who had a DJ? I bet they would pick up random people and accuse them of the same, but a ban makes no sense with our current technology. I guess it depends on how cheap it would be to monitor dreamers?

Its very highly unlikely that natural lucid dreaming could or would be banned , and as you said if they try to ban it it would lead to an opposite effect , like when a movie is tagged as +18 so that everyone under that age watch it after stating yes am above 18 lol , who didn't do that

Originally Posted by Hukif

Question!

How?

Seriously, how? The government will invent a machine that allows them to see your dreams and a very cheap brain-wave-reading-machine and then monitor every citizen of their city to some old-bored man so that they check you aren't becoming lucid? I was LDing for years without anyone knowing, so don't see how it owuld be possible to keep such a law. Maybe discredit or belittle it to make it less popular, but a ban would if at all, just make it all the more appealing and have the opposite effect.

You know how they tried with the crazy guy who had a DJ? I bet they would pick up random people and accuse them of the same, but a ban makes no sense with our current technology. I guess it depends on how cheap it would be to monitor dreamers?

This is an interesting question. If the government wanted to prevent people from lucid dreaming I think the most effective way would be to discredit it as you say, preferably as a part of education. For example, the reason most of us don't abuse drugs isn't primarily because it's illegal, but rather because we know it's bad for us. If people were taught of lucid dreaming is bad like they're taught drug abuse is bad they'd probably avoid doing it even though no one can actually stop them.

Originally Posted by Freda

This is an interesting question. If the government wanted to prevent people from lucid dreaming I think the most effective way would be to discredit it as you say, preferably as a part of education. For example, the reason most of us don't abuse drugs isn't primarily because it's illegal, but rather because we know it's bad for us. If people were taught of lucid dreaming is bad like they're taught drug abuse is bad they'd probably avoid doing it even though no one can actually stop them.

I guess that's already happening with the educational system flaging everything paranormal as a hoax and any one who believes them is a freak or something , and yes there is not much a government can do if its not in line with the public believes,

Originally Posted by Freda

This is an interesting question. If the government wanted to prevent people from lucid dreaming I think the most effective way would be to discredit it as you say, preferably as a part of education. For example, the reason most of us don't abuse drugs isn't primarily because it's illegal, but rather because we know it's bad for us. If people were taught of lucid dreaming is bad like they're taught drug abuse is bad they'd probably avoid doing it even though no one can actually stop them.

I totally agree! And sadly lucidusorbis is also right! Hopefully that won´t ever happen.. They´d take us even our last chance to talk to people about LD. Most people still think I´m nuts talking about it

Originally Posted by Freda

This is an interesting question. If the government wanted to prevent people from lucid dreaming I think the most effective way would be to discredit it as you say, preferably as a part of education. For example, the reason most of us don't abuse drugs isn't primarily because it's illegal, but rather because we know it's bad for us. If people were taught of lucid dreaming is bad like they're taught drug abuse is bad they'd probably avoid doing it even though no one can actually stop them.

Because that's worked so well. The war on drugs is a complete failure. So would the war or lucid dreaming. I honestly can't see them being able to stop anyone ever. Which is a good thing

Huh. Now I really don't want lucid dreaming to become mainstream. You bring up an excellent point, OP. Although, if lucid dreaming machines become a thing by the arrival of the next generation and it isn't illegal or a social taboo and instead becomes the new, awesome thing in the media's eyes, imagine how we can brag to our kids! That we were among the very few people who, in our generation, practiced lucid dreaming before there were any effective and affordable machines for it and when barely anyone knew about it! Well... I'm speaking for the young people here, I guess. The older crowd would take that role as the cool grandparents, I suppose.

Or, you know, we'd become the grumbling, old coots hating on newfangled machinery and gasping, "In my day, we didn't have machines that could make us lucid automatically! We had to work for every lucid dream we got and no-one we knew even cared about it!" And the kids would wait for us to leave them alone and realise that they don't care about how much more character we had about this while simultaneously wondering how we could have survived in a time without such basic technology. You know, it'd be the computers of the next generation. Could go either way.

Originally Posted by Hukif

Question!

How?

Seriously, how? The government will invent a machine that allows them to see your dreams and a very cheap brain-wave-reading-machine and then monitor every citizen of their city to some old-bored man so that they check you aren't becoming lucid? I was LDing for years without anyone knowing, so don't see how it owuld be possible to keep such a law. Maybe discredit or belittle it to make it less popular, but a ban would if at all, just make it all the more appealing and have the opposite effect.

You know how they tried with the crazy guy who had a DJ? I bet they would pick up random people and accuse them of the same, but a ban makes no sense with our current technology. I guess it depends on how cheap it would be to monitor dreamers?

Well, before they acquired the technology to directly monitor other people's dreams or lucidity levels, officials could just ban the machines that induce lucid dreaming automatically, making it harder for anyone to develop a lucid dreaming habit. If such technology had become widely available then people would become dependent on it and unwilling to take the long route and try it any other way. You know, like people are with books and no Internet today! Or... like people are with lucid dreaming today!

Originally Posted by AstralVagabond

Huh. Now I really don't want lucid dreaming to become mainstream. You bring up an excellent point, OP. Although, if lucid dreaming machines become a thing by the arrival of the next generation and it isn't illegal or a social taboo and instead becomes the new, awesome thing in the media's eyes, imagine how we can brag to our kids! That we were among the very few people who, in our generation, practiced lucid dreaming before there were any effective and affordable machines for it and when barely anyone knew about it! Well... I'm speaking for the young people here, I guess. The older crowd would take that role as the cool grandparents, I suppose.

Or, you know, we'd become the grumbling, old coots hating on newfangled machinery and gasping, "In my day, we didn't have machines that could make us lucid automatically! We had to work for every lucid dream we got and no-one we knew even cared about it!" And the kids would wait for us to leave them alone and realise that they don't care about how much more character we had about this while simultaneously wondering how we could have survived in a time without such basic technology. You know, it'd be the computers of the next generation. Could go either way.



Well, before they acquired the technology to directly monitor other people's dreams or lucidity levels, officials could just ban the machines that induce lucid dreaming automatically, making it harder for anyone to develop a lucid dreaming habit. If such technology had become widely available then people would become dependent on it and unwilling to take the long route and try it any other way. You know, like people are with books and no Internet today! Or... like people are with lucid dreaming today!

Its remarkable how lucid dreamers (like you ) have such a level of intellect and thoughtfulness and the ability to foresee effects of a cascade of possible events in the future using only there minds and imagination i guess its either an effect of lucid dreaming it self or that people who are interested in lucid dreaming have this ability in the first place .

Originally Posted by AstralVagabond

Huh. Now I really don't want lucid dreaming to become mainstream. You bring up an excellent point, OP. Although, if lucid dreaming machines become a thing by the arrival of the next generation and it isn't illegal or a social taboo and instead becomes the new, awesome thing in the media's eyes, imagine how we can brag to our kids! That we were among the very few people who, in our generation, practiced lucid dreaming before there were any effective and affordable machines for it and when barely anyone knew about it!

Actually, I kind of like how lucid dreaming isn't anywhere near mainstream yet, it's pretty cool to practice something extremely awesome that most people don't even know anything about.
If it became mainstream then it wouldn't feel quite as "special" anymore.

Originally Posted by lucidusorbis

Its remarkable how lucid dreamers (like you ) have such a level of intellect and thoughtfulness and the ability to foresee effects of a cascade of possible events in the future using only there minds and imagination i guess its either an effect of lucid dreaming it self or that people who are interested in lucid dreaming have this ability in the first place .

Oh, thank you! I wasn't really predicting anything, though. Just shooting ideas about what could happen based on the given information and what we know of the world today. And to be honest, I think lucid dreaming does tend to attract a more intellectual and creative crowd than is normally seen because those are the people who are more likely to see the potential of lucid dreaming despite it not (currently) being a popular practice. As for lucid dreaming making someone smarter? Perhaps, if used well, though I haven't had enough lucid dreams in my time to have reached that stage yet.

Originally Posted by Laurelindo

Actually, I kind of like how lucid dreaming isn't anywhere near mainstream yet, it's pretty cool to practice something extremely awesome that most people don't even know anything about.
If it became mainstream then it wouldn't feel quite as "special" anymore.

Yep! It's cool being one of the people to practice such a niche thing that is also really amazing in itself. Hipster oneironauts unite!

Originally Posted by lucidusorbis

The media will emphasize how lucid dreaming could be a way of cheating since sex is risk free and easy in it followed by a report of a divorce caused by lucid dreaming after a wife found out that her husband have sex in lucid dreams

I also would divorce a man if he had lucid dream sex with someone else. Or masturbated thinking about anyone or anything else but me. Because I don't actually want him to think of me sexually because he wants to. No, no, no, I want him to because he HAS to!

Originally Posted by Freda

For example, the reason most of us don't abuse drugs isn't primarily because it's illegal, but rather because we know it's bad for us. If people were taught of lucid dreaming is bad like they're taught drug abuse is bad they'd probably avoid doing it even though no one can actually stop them.

Nice point. I'd say it kinda is in a way - at least, if you're raised Christian. My mother thinks it's occult stuff. Heh! But even still, I'm sure lucid dreaming taken to an extreme (like addiction) would prove to be bad, too. That seems to be the resonating theme of everything in life.. balance is key (aka... the middle path).

Originally Posted by Hukif

Thats the thing with bans, makes you want to do it more.

QFT

Originally Posted by AstralVagabond

As for lucid dreaming making someone smarter? Perhaps, if used well, though I haven't had enough lucid dreams in my time to have reached that stage yet.

Smarter? Maybe. Wiser? Definitely.
-

The way I see it, lucid dreaming is a self-correcting thing already. The more a person engages in addictive negative behavior, whether IRL or via lucid dreaming, the further down they go. It's all awesome (for them), until they either get bored or hit rock bottom (in this lifetime or another), and realize their negative behavior is the source of their overall unhappiness. And then they change their behavior - not because they are forced - but, because they actually want to. Lucid dreaming is kind of a fast track system, because it's so easy to abuse.

Anyways, making sure you're behaving in lucid dreams is kind of the Old Hag's (and Slenderman's?) domain, right? *Shrug*

...And now to go find a place I can rent Paprika!

Originally Posted by Laurelindo

Actually, I kind of like how lucid dreaming isn't anywhere near mainstream yet, it's pretty cool to practice something extremely awesome that most people don't even know anything about.
If it became mainstream then it wouldn't feel quite as "special" anymore.

Dont worry your coolness is guaranteed already , even it become mainstream your one of the few who knew the earth is round

Originally Posted by AstralVagabond

Well, before they acquired the technology to directly monitor other people's dreams or lucidity levels, officials could just ban the machines that induce lucid dreaming automatically, making it harder for anyone to develop a lucid dreaming habit. If such technology had become widely available then people would become dependent on it and unwilling to take the long route and try it any other way. You know, like people are with books and no Internet today! Or... like people are with lucid dreaming today!

Pfft, everyone knows you have to do every bit of effort in order to break the law! I mean, what lenghts kids go to in order to do something illegal and feel cool? Can you imagine the level of dedication they will pour on it just to feel "cool" and "bad"? Thats the thing with bans, makes you want to do it more. Now whether thats good or bad... remains unknown.

Originally Posted by Hukif

Pfft, everyone knows you have to do every bit of effort in order to break the law! I mean, what lenghts kids go to in order to do something illegal and feel cool? Can you imagine the level of dedication they will pour on it just to feel "cool" and "bad"? Thats the thing with bans, makes you want to do it more. Now whether thats good or bad... remains unknown.

Absolutely true its like trying to blow a fire out but end up supplying it with oxygen.

Somebody's probably all ready mentioned this, but unless the CIA (CONFOUND those guys!! ) develops some sort of Orwellian thought-police and a mind-reading mechanism, there's no way to enforce a ban or track down the people who actively lucid dream. And most likely, by the time they DO invent the right technology, we'll all be dead. Golly, that's encouraging!

Haha very true! Though high school boys are not the majority of the people. And they typically don't have much money, so they are not the people who will buy these machines. Their parents will be the ones buying them, so you need to convince them Which will be tough, until the high school boys grow up and buy one themselves. That is what I meant with the new generation.