Thread: Will lucid dreaming become illegal one day ?

I think this is no sense question at all , cus its only a Dream , why should the ban or dissallow it? it doesn't affect anyone in real life..
its use on your own thing.

Originally Posted by Karlitaki

I think this is no sense question at all , cus its only a Dream , why should the ban or dissallow it? it doesn't affect anyone in real life..
its use on your own thing.

I kinda agree
It's smiliar to personal computers case
Many people are becoming addicted to playing games
Yet computers hasn't been banned nor is playing games

Same would be with 100% induction lucid dreaming machines probably
They are thought more safe than computers
They shouldn't produce any damage to eyes

Eventual side effects would be headaches which might showup if we are sleeping too much

Originally Posted by MisakaMikoto

I kinda agree
It's smiliar to personal computers case
Many people are becoming addicted to playing games
Yet computers hasn't been banned nor is playing games

Same would be with 100% induction lucid dreaming machines probably
They are thought more safe than computers
They shouldn't produce any damage to eyes

Eventual side effects would be headaches which might showup if we are sleeping too much

Thanks for your replies , the point i want to stress about is that it could be banned for no reason (like a lot of stuff ex: raw milk ) they banned raw milk although anyone with a cow can obviously drink it , we are not talking what could logically happen , but what could illogically happen as a result of some defect in the system we live by.

Originally Posted by lucidusorbis

Thanks for your replies , the point i want to stress about is that it could be banned for no reason (like a lot of stuff ex: raw milk ) they banned raw milk although anyone with a cow can obviously drink it , we are not talking what could logically happen , but what could illogically happen as a result of some defect in the system we live by.

Hey brother, raw milk, and such stuff are thinks which are made by other people, our dreams are made by our selfs so there's no such thing as banning them.

Somebody's probably all ready mentioned this, but unless the CIA (CONFOUND those guys!! ) develops some sort of Orwellian thought-police and a mind-reading mechanism, there's no way to enforce a ban or track down the people who actively lucid dream. And most likely, by the time they DO invent the right technology, we'll all be dead. Golly, that's encouraging!

Originally Posted by Laurelindo

I can understand that people are freaked out by it because it is something they are not familiar with, but making it illegal sounds absolutely pathetic.

Welcome to views of how some large enforcement is idiotic.

Originally Posted by Karlitaki

Hey brother, raw milk, and such stuff are thinks which are made by other people, our dreams are made by our selfs so there's no such thing as banning them.

On the raw milk subject, I've had that numerous times from one farm that's within 15 miles of my house and I've been fine every time I drank it. People were drinking raw milk for centuries with health - So, why the illness? But that's another topic.

And yeah raw milk is legal to purchase in Pennsylvania which is where I am at this time.

This is probably the stupidest thing I've read in my life on LDing.. LDing will never become illegal.

Originally Posted by n00bf0rlyf3

This is probably the stupidest thing I've read in my life on LDing.. LDing will never become illegal.

+1

Originally Posted by AdviceDoc

I sure hope not. Even if they do, they couldn't really do anything to stop people.

They might could outlaw induction tech but no way to stop natural ld unless maybe they put some stuff into the water supply.

Originally Posted by Freda

This all comes down to the technology. I can't really see a machine that helps induce lucid dreams during normal sleep become very problematic(maybe some psychological effects?) nor controversial. You couldn't really abuse such a machine very much either as it'd share the same constraints as we do already, like only getting a limited amount of sleep(and REM sleep) each day. If, however, the machine could induce REM sleep in addition to natural sleep there would almost certainly be abuse, but the solution to that would probably be banning the machine rather than the lucid dreaming itself. I don't see lucid dreaming as we know it becoming illegal anytime soon(ever).

I could see people using sleep meds to increase time spent with the machine as well as making it easier to stay in the dream.

Originally Posted by lucidusorbis

This though crossed my mined for a second "the dream police" imagine if a dream detective could get into a suspect subconscious in his dream . They will get coarses in dream and subconscious language interpretation , and with the shared dreaming experience you could higher a dream translator to translate your dream, there is just so much potential for a reliable lucid dreaming machine but would you live in a world were police lives in your dream also

Lol i would pwn some dream police, they don't want any of this.

Hey!
I have heard the news too! Now lucid dreaming will never be illegal because no one can set a barrier on someone thoughts or dreams, at least for now. And even if someone manages to do that that would be violation of the pearsons rights. So you shouldnt be scared of that.
Now wheter lucid dreams will be commmon or not, they will be. Sooner or later they will be. And theres nothing to fear of that too. Its even better because all of the people around the Earth wont just loose their time normal dreaming ( because thats what we all do when we arent lucid dreaming, thats a big fraction of your time ).
Still this is my opinion and some people may not be entairly with me.

Originally Posted by Dreamzilla

They might could outlaw induction tech but no way to stop natural ld unless maybe they put some stuff into the water supply.


I could see people using sleep meds to increase time spent with the machine as well as making it easier to stay in the dream.


Lol i would pwn some dream police, they don't want any of this.

1. They are puting stuff in the water and I tihnk some brands event put chemicals in theirs as well. You could easily know when you bring your tap water to a lab for inspection. Some of the chemicals in it shouldnt be there.

2. For the dream police there is still no way for me to believe this because they have to enter your mind some way. With a computer chip etc. So until they make that kind of techology to work with our sleeping minds we dont have to worry.

And why would anyone want to bann lucid dreaming Its like telling a pearson to stop going to the bathroom. THey will make sleep tech in the near future. But yet agian sooner or later there will be someone that will abuse the system. Untill then Happy dreaming!

please link the study where it says 77% chance of lucid dreaming, people have a tendency to over-blow things, and just because someone made a study doesn't mean he found something.

So far lucid dreaming is just a fringe topic and people aren't willing to explore it.
Even with such a movie like Inception that people really enjoyed, they just forgot about it in 2 days and went back to their normal life and routine.
I hope LD stays relatively obscure, even if a LD machine would be made, some contries would ban it but others won't, same as drugs.
Personally I would not give my child a LD machine but would not oppose him developing it in the natural way

edit: just as I suspected, it's the study I hoped you would not refer to, because it didn't achieve anything in the end
these are some good reads
http://neurocritic.blogspot.ro/2014/...uce-lucid.html
http://www.wired.com/2014/05/psychol...lation-really/
http://neurocritic.blogspot.ro/2014/...uroon-and.html

Originally Posted by Gattaca

please link the study where it says 77% chance of lucid dreaming, people have a tendency to over-blow things, and just because someone made a study doesn't mean he found something.

So far lucid dreaming is just a fringe topic and people aren't willing to explore it.
Even with such a movie like Inception that people really enjoyed, they just forgot about it in 2 days and went back to their normal life and routine.
I hope LD stays relatively obscure, even if a LD machine would be made, some contries would ban it but others won't, same as drugs.
Personally I would not give my child a LD machine but would not oppose him developing it in the natural way

edit: just as I suspected, it's the study I hoped you would not refer to, because it didn't achieve anything in the end
these are some good reads
The Neurocritic: Does Gamma tACS Really Induce Lucid Dreaming?
Psychologists Give People Control of Their Dreams Using Brain Stimulation. Really? | Science Blogs | WIRED
The Neurocritic: Neurocrap Funded by the Masses: NeuroOn and No More Woof

Hi, first of all the study you "hoped I would not refer to " was published in the nature Neuroscience magazine http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/...l/nn.3719.html .
I am a medical student and i know what that means, they wont even let you through the door (or the log in window) without the toughest measures to ensure your study has followed rigorous protocols to support your result, but i guess we should rely on neurocritic or wired.com as a very legitimate source for information , although there are people who blow things out there are also people who over criticize , if you ever wish to be a lucid dreamer you shouldn't be the latter . I don't say you have to believe anything but you have to know when to be skeptical and when to get blown away, and it seems that the idea of getting blown away it self freaks you out regardless of the truth behind it , i guess if you were to witness Galileo's statment "the earth is round " your own "don't get blown away shield" will fire up automatically and you would have joined the frenzy of mocking him and backing your self up by referring to a "very credible " scientific book like "the bible" and dismissing the not too advanced "telescope" that Galileo used.
As for the actual credible criticism in the blogs and websites you refereed to , the fact that the definition of lucid dreaming was not so rigorous as you would have hoped, lucid dreaming is a very obscure and bizarre phenomenon to have a definition like that of a "ball" or of "direct current" for example , its the kind of phenomenon that you can expect a philosopher to define it, as for me any dream that you attain self awareness in , is a lucid dream maybe a low quality lucid dream but nevertheless a lucid dream , and as for the fact that the study don't have a clear explanation of why 40 and 25 hz have this effect, this wasn't the intention of the researchers to begin with "if you took the time to read it " ,plus asking them to do so could only come from someone with very little to no knowledge of neuroscience given the complexity of how the brain works it could take 40 studies just to find out why 40 hz is effective, and last but not least your suspicion that this was all sparked by the "brain zapping "community , this very same degrading tonality is used when referring to our community "the lucid dreaming community", and that strengthens my believe that you are not a lucid dreamer,second any one who knows the whereabouts and implications of "brain zapping " would know that its the most stupid way to make money science any one with a very limited back ground in electric engineering would be able to build all those "brain zapping " devices on his own ( i did that already) so your belief is that the whole issue is just a brain stimulation marketing campaign , is like believing that studies that prove that sodium bicarbonate can slow or reverse end stage renal failure is to market sodium bicarbonate which is off course delusional since sodium bicarbonate cant be patented and costs literally a few penny's so that any one is stupid enough to make a study to market it Daily dose of baking soda 'could stop kidney patients needing dialysis' | Mail Online , at the end as a lucid dreamer i have all the right to get blown away when something with such credibility comes out, LETS GET BLOWN AWAY.

well what do you know, I'm also a medical student and I took Statistics and Methodology of Research courses (you seem to believe that only medical students can judge studies?), but I don't know why you seem to take my comment so personal.
The study you linked says in the title "induction of self-awareness" but we know that it takes a certain threshold of self-awareness to have a lucid dream, or else you get swapped away in the dreaming world. It never says anywhere 77% chance of lucid dreaming.Because if they said that probably they would not let them publish the study, because they didn't got a 77% chance of lucid dreaming
>and it seems that the idea of getting blown away it self freaks you out regardless of the truth behind it
nope, I'm just skeptical, if you look at the charts provided by the link I posted because let's face it both of us didn't pay to see the study in Nature so we will have to make the best we have, and the links I provided do show some important charts. You will see that they did increase the self-awareness, but not enough to say the subjects had lucid dreams which is nice in itself.
>i guess if you were to witness Galileo's statment "the earth is round " your own "don't get blown away shield" will fire up automatically and you would have joined the frenzy of mocking him and backing your self up by referring to a "very credible " scientific book like "the bible" and dismissing the not too advanced "telescope" that Galileo used.
this whole statement is just your hurt feelings and baseless assumptions, and the greeks knew anyway the earth is round. No more comments on it, not sure what I did to trigger these
increassed vividness of colours, better memory of dreams, doing a reality check in your dreams but still never achieving lucidity are signs of better awareness and focus in your dreams, but they don't count as lucid dreams
>why 40 and 25 hz have this effect
40Hz frequency coresponds to gamma waves and they show up in mathemathicians in greater "quantity" as far as we were told at our course, could be linked to logical thinking, self-awareness? the internet has something about buddhist meditators showing more gamma waves but I'll leave it at that
>if you took time to read it
stay condescending
>and that strengthens my believe that you are not a lucid dreamer
yep, it's just your belief that wants and hopes I am not a lucid dreamer and I'm not gonna justify myself to you and whip out statements on how many lucid dreams I have each month and go in a lucid dream dick-waving
>at the end as a lucid dreamer i have all the right to get blown away
and because you posted your opinions on a forum, anyone has all the right to be skeptical and challenge any statement if there are reasons for it.

Originally Posted by Gattaca

well what do you know, I'm also a medical student and I took Statistics and Methodology of Research courses (you seem to believe that only medical students can judge studies?), but I don't know why you seem to take my comment so personal.
The study you linked says in the title "induction of self-awareness" but we know that it takes a certain threshold of self-awareness to have a lucid dream, or else you get swapped away in the dreaming world. It never says anywhere 77% chance of lucid dreaming.Because if they said that probably they would not let them publish the study, because they didn't got a 77% chance of lucid dreaming
>and it seems that the idea of getting blown away it self freaks you out regardless of the truth behind it
nope, I'm just skeptical, if you look at the charts provided by the link I posted because let's face it both of us didn't pay to see the study in Nature so we will have to make the best we have, and the links I provided do show some important charts. You will see that they did increase the self-awareness, but not enough to say the subjects had lucid dreams which is nice in itself.
>i guess if you were to witness Galileo's statment "the earth is round " your own "don't get blown away shield" will fire up automatically and you would have joined the frenzy of mocking him and backing your self up by referring to a "very credible " scientific book like "the bible" and dismissing the not too advanced "telescope" that Galileo used.
this whole statement is just your hurt feelings and baseless assumptions, and the greeks knew anyway the earth is round. No more comments on it, not sure what I did to trigger these
increassed vividness of colours, better memory of dreams, doing a reality check in your dreams but still never achieving lucidity are signs of better awareness and focus in your dreams, but they don't count as lucid dreams
>why 40 and 25 hz have this effect
40Hz frequency coresponds to gamma waves and they show up in mathemathicians in greater "quantity" as far as we were told at our course, could be linked to logical thinking, self-awareness? the internet has something about buddhist meditators showing more gamma waves but I'll leave it at that
>if you took time to read it
stay condescending
>and that strengthens my believe that you are not a lucid dreamer
yep, it's just your belief that wants and hopes I am not a lucid dreamer and I'm not gonna justify myself to you and whip out statements on how many lucid dreams I have each month and go in a lucid dream dick-waving
>at the end as a lucid dreamer i have all the right to get blown away
and because you posted your opinions on a forum, anyone has all the right to be skeptical and challenge any statement if there are reasons for it.

I apologize if you felt insulted but i didnt mean to insult you as for the study i posted i firmly and truly believe it meant what it meant as for the definition of lucid dreaming that's a pointless discussion since everybody can choose a definition but for me if you know that this is a dream then its a lucid dream regardless of your degree of control as for the percentage i also believe its 77% cause that's what the study shows and unless you have other solid information this will remain true, as for your level of skepticism which is the trend nowadays for some reason people started believing that the more skeptic you are .

If it does in fact blow up, I'm sure the media will make it out to be some monster.

The interest in lucid dreaming is present, but what makes it a small community is the fact that is takes work and dedication. No one wants to put in work without instant results. It's the same reason most dieters fail, and most people complain about their problems then do nothing to fix them.

If there were in fact an easy way to induce lucid dreams like the machine you described, I'm sure lucid dreaming would grow in popularity. After all, if society uses other forms of escapism, wouldn't one use a machine that creates an "better" reality inside their head for x hours every night?

I think North Corea (Korea?) will tell people that they can have a decent meal just lucic dreaming.

Originally Posted by lucidusorbis

ya man we would better get good at it before it goes viral maybe when it happens we would be lucid dream experts and a new job comes out like what happened with hypnosis , what do you think theyll call us , lucid dream therapists , sounds lame though lol.

I hope so, would love to make a living through lucid dreaming!

Also, I want those electrode things... hope they make a consumer product out of it soon!

Originally Posted by lucidusorbis

Will lucid dreaming become illegal one day ? , Read this thread and you decide.
Based on the latest studies and rapid advances in lucid dreaming induction technology in less than 5 years lucid dreaming will be as common as Air travel , scientists at Frankfort university managed to induce lucid dreams with a 77% success rate every night, using electrical stimulation of an area in the prefrontal cortex . This sound like good news , but wait , there are totally different dynamics when something becomes a widespread phenomena , surely there was a tribe here and there smoking opium and doing all sort of drugs and no one cared , it was too rare too remote too insignificant to the world since these tribes were largely isolated, but once drugs took off and became a widespread phenomenon everything changed.
For those of you who know i-doser the so called "digital drug" producer , was banned in the UAE since they believe it could induce an altered state of mind .
Although you might get higher listening to music than to i-doser the idea of euphoria elicits an allergic response to the public or at least for government officials, since the world is an often harsh place with far more unpleasant than pleasant stuff, anything that can make someone happy is often abused.
When lucid dreaming goes main stream , all kind of negative behavior will start to surface, people will get hooked on lucid dreaming machines for 16 hours a day like the movie inception since lucid dreaming will appeal as an escape route for many people. The media will emphasize how lucid dreaming could be a way of cheating since sex is risk free and easy in it followed by a report of a divorce caused by lucid dreaming after a wife found out that her husband have sex in lucid dreams , a story here and there of someone who killed someone based on a lucid dream , or how can lucid dreams lead to violence (the media will find a way ) .
The first to ban lucid dreaming would be the Arab world , known for its intolerance and ignorance it will be considered a sin for whatever reason they could come up with , then some right winged legislator in some state will call for its ban since its long term effects is "not well established " he may even say directly that it could be a way of inducing euphoria (as if that's a bad thing) and therefore must be banned.
China and North Korea and other totalitarian regimes would ban it as its a "threat to national security" , schools would search children bags to find any lucid dreaming induction machines because it could be "addictive ".

At the end this Sci-Fi movie i played above is not necessarily what will happen , nevertheless its a possibility.
In the mean time while lets enjoy the day where lucid dreaming is a genuine and rare experience for those searching for a true spiritual reality and haven't been contaminated by the dynamics of main stream society .
Please post your depiction of the public response to lucid dreaming once it become a wide spread phenomena.

UAE call to ban hypnotic music as illegal 'digital drug' | The National
RealClearScience - Researchers Induce Lucid Dreaming with Electrical Brain Stimulation

...

Hook me up with that please.

oh cmon guys.. we dont need any tools to LD , we use our brains to learn it...