Why do I still not get lucid?

[Ajanime22]

So, I've been doing at least 5 mental reality checks like every ten minutes (if not, every 5 minutes) for about a month and a half now. But, I'll still have 2 hour long dreams and not check myself. Am I doing something wrong?

[FryingMan]

If you're having two-hour long dreams and recalling them well, you're definitely doing something right! LD practice is not like instant oatmeal: it takes a steady, patient, consistent, dedicated practice, and over time you'll start getting lucid more in dreams. You may want to back off a bit on the intense RC schedule and leave some mental energy for WBTB, setting intention, and noticing wakings and doing night-time techniques (MILD, WILD) at night. It's also important to do RCs properly: really give them your attention. Acknowledge to yourself why you are doing the RC: in order to become lucid in dreams.

[Laurelindo]

If you are going to practice Reality Checks then you need to take them completely seriously every time you do them. You should truly believe that you might actually be dreaming whenever you decide to do them, and not do them just because you feel it's a routine. I have personally had several dreams where I have "known" I was awake, because "it felt just like waking life", and I always feel really amazed when I wakee up a few seconds later. I have also had several False Awakenings (dreams about waking up), and they have sometimes felt extremely realistic as well, to the point that I could feel the hard floor on my feet when I got out of my dream bed. It's actually pretty incredible how real some dreams can look and feel, sometimes they feel literally just as vivid as waking life, all senses included. My point is that you should always honestly ask yourself if you might actually be dreaming every time you do a reality check, then think about it for a while and look for signs that give away that it is a dream. If you can't find any signs like that, then you are probably awake - but don't assume this for too long, make another check a while later, because at that point it might possibly be a dream.

[Puhtato]

In terms of keeping yourself motivated, a month and a half is genuinely not that much time. Think about your body and how long it takes to get into the habit of doing something - now think of the times you've done Reality Checks without giving it your full attention or just going through the motion. Every time I do a reality check, I think of how I got where I am, what I've been doing, if any of it makes sense (although, sometimes in the waking world it still doesn't) before trying to breathe through my plugged nose, or looking at my hands and counting my fingers. Thinking of all of these things bring you into present awareness of what you're actually doing, and that's the key part of RCs. It's not what you do, it's how you do it, and how you think when you're doing it. Make sure you're in the right mindset when you're doing your RCs. I agree with FryingMan, your RC routine is intense, and sounds absolutely exhausting. You could try taking a break from everything apart from writing down your dreams for a week. It's amazing what a little break can do. I tried religiously for about 8 months before I had my first lucid experience, and even then it was a short one, but I had it when I had stopped practising so hard and took a breather from the mental exhaustion.

[Ajanime22]

If you're having two-hour long dreams and recalling them well, you're definitely doing something right! LD practice is not like instant oatmeal: it takes a steady, patient, consistent, dedicated practice, and over time you'll start getting lucid more in dreams. You may want to back off a bit on the intense RC schedule and leave some mental energy for WBTB, setting intention, and noticing wakings and doing night-time techniques (MILD, WILD) at night. It's also important to do RCs properly: really give them your attention. Acknowledge to yourself why you are doing the RC: in order to become lucid in dreams. I'll keep that in mind. Thanks. I don't really use a lot of energy on my reality checks, though. I don't just go through the motions. I just check with myself why I'm doing what I'm doing and how I got to my current situation. I love the idea of reminding myself that I'm doing RCs to become lucid in dreams. Sometimes, I forget that reason and just do the RC to make sure I know why things are the way they are in my current situation. And I don't have an alarm that tells me to do RCs. I just do them naturally when I remember to.

[Ajanime22]

If you are going to practice Reality Checks then you need to take them completely seriously every time you do them. You should truly believe that you might actually be dreaming whenever you decide to do them, and not do them just because you feel it's a routine. I have personally had several dreams where I have "known" I was awake, because "it felt just like waking life", and I always feel really amazed when I wakee up a few seconds later. I have also had several False Awakenings (dreams about waking up), and they have sometimes felt extremely realistic as well, to the point that I could feel the hard floor on my feet when I got out of my dream bed. It's actually pretty incredible how real some dreams can look and feel, sometimes they feel literally just as vivid as waking life, all senses included. My point is that you should always honestly ask yourself if you might actually be dreaming every time you do a reality check, then think about it for a while and look for signs that give away that it is a dream. If you can't find any signs like that, then you are probably awake - but don't assume this for too long, make another check a while later, because at that point it might possibly be a dream. That's the thing, though. I do take my RCs seriously. I don't just assume I'm awake. I answer questions to myself like,"Why I'm doing what I'm doing? Where am I?"

[Ajanime22]

In terms of keeping yourself motivated, a month and a half is genuinely not that much time. Think about your body and how long it takes to get into the habit of doing something - now think of the times you've done Reality Checks without giving it your full attention or just going through the motion. Every time I do a reality check, I think of how I got where I am, what I've been doing, if any of it makes sense (although, sometimes in the waking world it still doesn't) before trying to breathe through my plugged nose, or looking at my hands and counting my fingers. Thinking of all of these things bring you into present awareness of what you're actually doing, and that's the key part of RCs. It's not what you do, it's how you do it, and how you think when you're doing it. Make sure you're in the right mindset when you're doing your RCs. I agree with FryingMan, your RC routine is intense, and sounds absolutely exhausting. You could try taking a break from everything apart from writing down your dreams for a week. It's amazing what a little break can do. I tried religiously for about 8 months before I had my first lucid experience, and even then it was a short one, but I had it when I had stopped practising so hard and took a breather from the mental exhaustion. I don't really feel exhausted when I do RCs. But, perhaps I should pull back a bit on how frequently I do them. Thanks.

[sisyphus]

Broaden your practice. Look over your dream journal to find dream signs. Use daydreaming to re-enter past dreams and rehearse recognizing the dream sign and becoming lucid. When you wake in the middle of the night between dreams, repeat this re-entry and rehearsal with the previous dream. Then go back to sleep with a strong intention to become lucid in the next dream. This is the essence of MILD.

[Iaotal]

NO! Do not listen to anyone who tells you to do anything. Don't add more beliefness. These people don't really know what they're talking about. Reality Checking is a part of a Prospective Memory Exercise brought forth by the man named Stephen LaBerge. He explains how doing a reality check in a random way can cause you to do it in a dream. How is it random? LaBerge created a list of mundane events that happen throughout the week and evenly distributed them to individual days and ended up with a set schedule like this; EXERCISE: PROSPECTIVE MEMORY TRAINING 1. Read the day’s targets This exercise is designed to be practiced over an entire week. Below is a set of four target events for each day of the week. When you get up in the morning, read only the targets for that day. (Do not read the targets before the proper day. ) Memorize the day’s targets. 2. Look for your targets during the day Your goal is to notice the next occurrence of each event, at which time you will perform a state test: “Am I dreaming?” So, if your target is, “The next time I hear a dog bark, “ when you hear this next, note it and do a state test. You are aiming to notice the target once—the next time it happens. 3. Keep track of how many target events you hit At the end of the day, write down how many of the four targets you succeeded in noticing (you can make a space in your dream journal to record your progress with this exercise). If you realize during the day that you missed your first chance to notice one of your targets, then you have failed to hit that target, even though you may notice its occurrence later in the day. If you are certain that one or more of the targets did not occur at all during the day, say so with a note in your dream journal. 4. Continue the exercise for at least one week Practice the exercise until you have tried all of the daily targets given below. If at the end of the week, you are still missing most of the targets, continue until you can hit most of them. Make up your own list of targets, keep track of your success rate, and observe how your memory develops. Daily Targets SUNDAY: The next time I see a pet or animal The next time look at my face in a mirror The next time turn on a light The next time see a flower MONDAY: The next time write anything down The next time feel pain The next time I hear someone say my name The next time I drink something TUESDAY: The next time I see a traffic light The next time I hear music The next time I throw something in the garbage The next time I hear laughter WEDNESDAY: The next time I turn on a television or radio The next time I see a vegetable The next time I see a red car The next time I handle money THURSDAY: The next time I read something other than this list The next time I check the time The next time I notice myself daydreaming The next time I hear the telephone ringing FRIDAY: The next time I open a door The next time I see a bird The next time I use the toilet after noon The next time I see the stars SATURDAY: The next time I put a key in a lock The next time I see an advertisement The next time I eat anything after breakfast The next time I see a bicycle He encourages you to make your own schedule but to use this one is just fine as it is a pretty evenly balanced set of events. The idea is that every time an event happens you would do a Reality Check and for however many events you would have done the same amount of Reality Checks instead of just checking reality throughout the day as if it were going to change. Since dreams will provide you with "Dream Signs" you will then notice the dream sign and out of habit do a Reality Check in order to become lucid. An Important point that he makes is that once you have forgotten to, or at least realize that you have after the fact not performed a Reality Check, then you will proceed to only do reality checks for the remaining events for that day. This simply forces you to keep up with the flow of your day and/or your dream by habit of not getting caught up in having a bad prospective memory. http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...-dreaming.html check out that thread.

[Samael]

NO! Do not listen to anyone who tells you to do anything. Uh huh. So, like we were saying, experiment with what works for you.

[Ajanime22]

NO! Do not listen to anyone who tells you to do anything. Don't add more beliefness. These people don't really know what they're talking about. Reality Checking is a part of a Prospective Memory Exercise brought forth by the man named Stephen LaBerge. He explains how doing a reality check in a random way can cause you to do it in a dream. How is it random? LaBerge created a list of mundane events that happen throughout the week and evenly distributed them to individual days and ended up with a set schedule like this; EXERCISE: PROSPECTIVE MEMORY TRAINING 1. Read the day’s targets This exercise is designed to be practiced over an entire week. Below is a set of four target events for each day of the week. When you get up in the morning, read only the targets for that day. (Do not read the targets before the proper day. ) Memorize the day’s targets. 2. Look for your targets during the day Your goal is to notice the next occurrence of each event, at which time you will perform a state test: “Am I dreaming?” So, if your target is, “The next time I hear a dog bark, “ when you hear this next, note it and do a state test. You are aiming to notice the target once—the next time it happens. 3. Keep track of how many target events you hit At the end of the day, write down how many of the four targets you succeeded in noticing (you can make a space in your dream journal to record your progress with this exercise). If you realize during the day that you missed your first chance to notice one of your targets, then you have failed to hit that target, even though you may notice its occurrence later in the day. If you are certain that one or more of the targets did not occur at all during the day, say so with a note in your dream journal. 4. Continue the exercise for at least one week Practice the exercise until you have tried all of the daily targets given below. If at the end of the week, you are still missing most of the targets, continue until you can hit most of them. Make up your own list of targets, keep track of your success rate, and observe how your memory develops. Daily Targets SUNDAY: The next time I see a pet or animal The next time look at my face in a mirror The next time turn on a light The next time see a flower MONDAY: The next time write anything down The next time feel pain The next time I hear someone say my name The next time I drink something TUESDAY: The next time I see a traffic light The next time I hear music The next time I throw something in the garbage The next time I hear laughter WEDNESDAY: The next time I turn on a television or radio The next time I see a vegetable The next time I see a red car The next time I handle money THURSDAY: The next time I read something other than this list The next time I check the time The next time I notice myself daydreaming The next time I hear the telephone ringing FRIDAY: The next time I open a door The next time I see a bird The next time I use the toilet after noon The next time I see the stars SATURDAY: The next time I put a key in a lock The next time I see an advertisement The next time I eat anything after breakfast The next time I see a bicycle He encourages you to make your own schedule but to use this one is just fine as it is a pretty evenly balanced set of events. The idea is that every time an event happens you would do a Reality Check and for however many events you would have done the same amount of Reality Checks instead of just checking reality throughout the day as if it were going to change. Since dreams will provide you with "Dream Signs" you will then notice the dream sign and out of habit do a Reality Check in order to become lucid. An Important point that he makes is that once you have forgotten to, or at least realize that you have after the fact not performed a Reality Check, then you will proceed to only do reality checks for the remaining events for that day. This simply forces you to keep up with the flow of your day and/or your dream by habit of not getting caught up in having a bad prospective memory. http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...-dreaming.html check out that thread. Well, seeing as how I rarely ever experience any of those things in my dreams, it wouldn't make much sense for me to to do them for MILDs.

[Iaotal]

Well, seeing as how I rarely ever experience any of those things in my dreams, it wouldn't make much sense for me to to do them for MILDs. That's not the point. The exercise trains you to do the RC in a situation where your reality is in question (ie. A dream sign). The habit being developed towards random events that happen during waking life since things that happen in dreams rarely experienced.

[Iaotal]

Uh huh. So, like we were saying, experiment with what works for you. These are proven methods from years of experimentations done by qualified instructors and researchers. If it works use it, but don't waste your time trying to do all of that work if it's already been published. Nothing wrong with tailoring things toward your own needs. Even LaBerge suggests making your own list of "targets" for the week.

[Ajanime22]

That's not the point. The exercise trains you to do the RC in a situation where your reality is in question (ie. A dream sign). The habit being developed towards random events that happen during waking life since things that happen in dreams rarely experienced. I don't have dreamsigns, though. And if I do, they are very spread out over the course of my dreams (like, a dreamsign will show up only twice a month, if even that many).

[Ajanime22]

These are proven methods from years of experimentations done by qualified instructors and researchers. If it works use it, but don't waste your time trying to do all of that work if it's already been published. Nothing wrong with tailoring things toward your own needs. Even LaBerge suggests making your own list of "targets" for the week. That's the thing, though. I don't have recurring dreamsigns.

[Iaotal]

It's a good thing that you had 2 hour dreams as it shows you a correlation between intensive reality checking and dream awareness, or in other words how meditation can bring about more awareness in even your dream state. Almost a completely different purpose or intention. You had developed " lucidity" in a sense that you were more conscious and less prone to being over excited by not arriving at any conclusion of being lucid. It's like driving while realizing your driving without over exaggerating that your driving while having increased awareness of driving.

[Iaotal]

That's the thing, though. I don't have recurring dreamsigns. Its easy to discard things as unimportant. Start over as if you've never done this before and follow the exercise thoroughly. You will find that your attitude changes. In my experience I have found in the case of music that I will go through periods of time where songs don't entertain me. I will be switching the radio dial constantly and flipping through my ipod for songs to listen to, only to find that nothing is of interests. I then realized that if i picked one and stuck with it, I only had to let myself experience a song in its entirety to enjoy it. Sometimes, it doesn't work as a song will genuinely wont interest me, but what I realized is that I had forgotten to simply listen to the song(s). On a side note, a mentor of mine suggested waiting 20 minutes before and after listening to a song for completely silence as to over exaggerate the potency of music as a form of art rather than just abusing it.

[FryingMan]

NO! Do not listen to anyone who tells you to do anything. Don't add more beliefness. These people don't really know what they're talking about.. Presumably, including Iaotal . DV is a respectful forum, Iaotal, with members having many years of experience in LDing. Please make sure you respect other contributors.

[gab]

I do take my RCs seriously. I don't just assume I'm awake. I answer questions to myself like,"Why I'm doing what I'm doing? Where am I?" And after that, do you tell yourself that you are dreaming or awake? Natural instinct would be to acknowledge that you are awake. But if you do that, then you will do the same in your dream and not get lucid. Best is to skip the result of the RC, as in don't think to yourself "RC failed, I'm awake". But say your mantra (intent), something like "next time I'm dreaming (or you see your dreamsign) I look at my hands (do your RC) and realize I'm dreaming.

[Ajanime22]

And after that, do you tell yourself that you are dreaming or awake? Natural instinct would be to acknowledge that you are awake. But if you do that, then you will do the same in your dream and not get lucid. Best is to skip the result of the RC, as in don't think to yourself "RC failed, I'm awake". But say your mantra (intent), something like "next time I'm dreaming (or you see your dreamsign) I look at my hands (do your RC) and realize I'm dreaming. I actually remind myself that I'm doing RCs in order to become lucid in my dreams. And yes. I do say that next time I'm dreaming, I'll realize I'm dreaming.

[Iaotal]

Presumably, including Iaotal . DV is a respectful forum, Iaotal, with members having many years of experience in LDing. Please make sure you respect other contributors. Yes, exactly my point. Don't take anyone's word for it. Who am I to tell you that you are awake in this dream. With all due respect, LaBerge is much more qualified to address this persons question, yet he is not here. Again, I wouldn't listen to what anyone says including myself as even the Buddha says to question even his teachings. Peace and love.

[FryingMan]

Yes, exactly my point. Don't take anyone's word for it. Who am I to tell you that you are awake in this dream. With all due respect, LaBerge is much more qualified to address this persons question, yet he is not here. Again, I wouldn't listen to what anyone says including myself as even the Buddha says to question even his teachings. Peace and love. LaBerge had an immense impact on promoting lucid dreaming, and we still point beginners to ETWOLD and treat that book with great respect. But that doesn't mean that the contents of ETWOLD are the only way or even the best way. Most practitioners, after starting with a ETWOLD/LaBerge approach, usually go on to settle on some form of awareness-building practice as being key to continued success with lucid dreaming, once they're ready.

[Redrivertears]

Hello Ajanime, Are you paying enough attention to your regular dreams? I've found that any road to lucidity starts with an intimate knowledge of your own dreams. Is you recall strong enough? Do you recognize the reccuring elements in them? Do you value your regular dreams enough and pay them enough attention? Its easy to get so caught up in wanting to lucid dream, that all your focus becomes 'to have a lucid dream', and you discard any non-lucid dream as a failure. Paradoxically, in this state of mind, it becomes very hard to actually have lucid dreams. Once you're sure you're paying enough attention to your regular dreams, I'd advise you to start looking for signs that your dream awareness is increasing. Don't focus on the all or nothing of a lucid dream, but look for positive signs that you've becoming more and more aware in your dream. Are you recalling your dreams better? Are your dreams becoming more vivid and fantastic? Are there moments where you were almost lucid? Are certain dreamsigns starting to appear (even if you don't recognize them yet). These are a sure sign way of improvement and can help you on your road to full lucidity. Think of it as learning to jog before you try to run the ten miles. Go in small, positive, steps, if just leaping in doesn't work. Additionally, I believe strongly that we do not all respond the same way to any given technique. That means something which works for one dreamer may not work for you. If you find that one approach is getting you no results, try another. Experiment with different techniques. Find ones that you like, or find interesting, and give it a try. Keep it fun and intriguing and see what your sleep/dreams respond to. Lastly, don't worry too much about timescales. Remember that some of the people that report 'fast' successes may have some natural talent at lucid dreaming. Just go at it at your own pace. Enjoy your dreams, watch your awareness grow, and you may be posting here about your full blown lucid dreams sooner then you think. Good luck to you! -Redrivertears-

[Ajanime22]

Hello Ajanime, Are you paying enough attention to your regular dreams? I've found that any road to lucidity starts with an intimate knowledge of your own dreams. Is you recall strong enough? Do you recognize the reccuring elements in them? Do you value your regular dreams enough and pay them enough attention? Its easy to get so caught up in wanting to lucid dream, that all your focus becomes 'to have a lucid dream', and you discard any non-lucid dream as a failure. Paradoxically, in this state of mind, it becomes very hard to actually have lucid dreams. Once you're sure you're paying enough attention to your regular dreams, I'd advise you to start looking for signs that your dream awareness is increasing. Don't focus on the all or nothing of a lucid dream, but look for positive signs that you've becoming more and more aware in your dream. Are you recalling your dreams better? Are your dreams becoming more vivid and fantastic? Are there moments where you were almost lucid? Are certain dreamsigns starting to appear (even if you don't recognize them yet). These are a sure sign way of improvement and can help you on your road to full lucidity. Think of it as learning to jog before you try to run the ten miles. Go in small, positive, steps, if just leaping in doesn't work. Additionally, I believe strongly that we do not all respond the same way to any given technique. That means something which works for one dreamer may not work for you. If you find that one approach is getting you no results, try another. Experiment with different techniques. Find ones that you like, or find interesting, and give it a try. Keep it fun and intriguing and see what your sleep/dreams respond to. Lastly, don't worry too much about timescales. Remember that some of the people that report 'fast' successes may have some natural talent at lucid dreaming. Just go at it at your own pace. Enjoy your dreams, watch your awareness grow, and you may be posting here about your full blown lucid dreams sooner then you think. Good luck to you! -Redrivertears- Thanks, Redrivertears. I needed to hear that My awareness, dream vividness, and dream recall have all increased immensely. I guess I'm being too hard on myself and so focused on the destination, that I'm not enjoying the journey. Thanks, for the encouraging words.