Thread: Lucidity on demand

This might not be the kind of response you're expecting, but I feel that the mindset of thinking of the dream and the unconscious/“subconscious” as being separate entities that do things to you on their own volition isn't a helpful one. Your dreams are very sensitive to your beliefs; anything you believe is likely to manifest itself just as you describe, making it appear to be true, and making you believe it's true, further reinforcing such dreams.

If you consider that your dreams are part of your mind, and that the unconscious is part of your mind, and that your consciousness is part of your mind, then all of these things are literally you. It may appear that the dream is “kicking you out”, or doing other things against you, but this isn't necessarily the case. Your dreams may indeed be playing out scenarios like this, but in many cases these are just a reflection of your internal thoughts and beliefs. It might be a good idea not to take them too seriously. I'm not trying to tell you not to believe that dreams can't have a deeper or spiritual meaning if you wish, but just suggesting that it's up to your conscious decision—don't let what happens in your dreams choose what you believe for you, if you know what I mean.

Also: Consider that lucid dreaming is a very delicate mental balancing act that is difficult to master, so failures are to be expected. They don't necessarily mean your mind is working against you. People who enter LDs “on demand” or have 100% or nearly 100% of their nightly dreams be lucid are usually those who have been practicing for literally decades. Keep trying, but don't expect things to happen quickly. This is a lifelong journey, not a race.

theres nothing innovative or new about what your saying,im trying to break that decades part,and ofcourse for me,it is in fact a race,just because other people we have heard of and know about havent been able to do what im trying to do doesnt mean there werent people who actualy could,and i think you got the wrong idea of what i very clearly explained was my idea of lucidity on demand,and that sure as hell wasn't to have a lucid dream everytime you slept,what im trying to achive here,is NOT lucidity via SLEEP,
im trying to take myself to lucid dreaming without having to uncouncisly fall asleep (as it always happenz,you never conciously fall asleep,it is always unconcious,and you don't have the choice to fall asleep in the case the prequisites,such as being physicaly tired aren't met,which limits you).
this means for 1 day,you can enter a lucid dream some 20000 times and exit it at your wish.
not just 1s everytime you sleep,thats useless.

Sorry for focusing on the wrong part of your post, alij8000. Certainly some interesting things can happen during deep meditation. I haven't come anywhere near accomplishing those things, so they are beyond my current expertise. Hopefully someone else here can comment.

However, I'm a bit confused about your saying it is impossible to fall asleep consciously. I may be misunderstanding you, but I know this to be technically untrue—lucid dreamers can and do fall asleep consciously, using methods that go by names such as WILD (wake-initiated lucid dream) or DEILD (dream-exit-initiated lucid dream), and it is possible to become conscious during sleep. I have personally done this quite a few times over the years. There even appear to be some similarities between the methods of doing a WILD and meditating while awake into a deep state in an attempt to reach some sort of lucid REM-like state, from what I've heard; WILD itself is arguably a form of meditation in itself.

thank you for the reply my friend,
yes i might have confused you on this my bad,
when you are WILDing you aren't conciously falling asleep,you are keeping your mind awake,as you body unconciously falls asleep,there is no way to fall asleep conciously,
for example,if you had previously slept some 10 hours in a row,or if you stomach was extreamly full,this would physically unable you to fall asleep,
and you can't decide to lay down on a bed,close your eyes,and your body would fall asleep,as it simply wouldn't because its not met the right prequisites such as being tired,and in some cases,light (not immideatly after a large meal),
this is what i meant by falling asleep uncouncisly.transitioning to a dream without losing awareness is basically what we call WILD ,that is correct,but the choice for the body to fall,is not ours,the choice is for us only to keep the mind awake as that happens.
another approach to make this clear would be to say , if we could fall asleep conciously,then insomnia would have never existed,or WILD would be a way to treat insomnia (which its not by any means,its in fact impossible to WILD with insomnia).

I'm not sure I understand. Everything you described in effort to gain lucidity was AFTER you fell asleep and were in a non lucid dream. And you are asking for more ideas how to become lucid once you are in a non lucid dream.

Tried Programming my brain trough a computer screen,it didnt work as the screen wouldn't load up.
-Tried Anchoring a certain event in the dream ...
-Tried engraving a decree into the dreamspace ...

Things im going to try next :
-Opening a gate inside the dream ...
-Telling my subconcious to make it so that each time i close my eyes after smelling Rosemary (or cumin) i would enter a lucid dream.
-Create an airlock inside the dream...

But in your last post you are saying that you are looking for something that would make your body fall asleep without any prerequisites such as being sleepy. Basically to fall asleep on demand.

for example,if you had previously slept some 10 hours in a row,or if you stomach was extreamly full,this would physically unable you to fall asleep,

Your first question is basically asking for an idea how to enter LD once you are in a dream. For that we have practices such as Reality checks, awareness and mantras that help you recognize that you are dreaming and that will get you lucid.

Your second question is how to fall asleep at any time. I think you can train yourself for that too to some degree, but that also may take time.

dear gab
i have no idea where you reached the notion that everything i described was in an effort to gain lucidity after i fell asleep,
i never said that,i think you made that up somewhere while rading the thread.
all i've said here is that i've had several LUCID dreams (i didn't mention my dreams were lucid but i don't have any idea how you could think you could speak to your subconcious or spirit guide in non-lucid dreams which i did mention,) in which i've tried to find a way to induce a LUCID dream without having to have met the prequisites that are required for a lucid dream,in other words,i wish to induce WILD without meeting the prequisites of WILD,
and Again you made something up in your mind somewhere which again i did by no means even come close to mentioning and that is that im asking how to fall asleep at any time,
nope,i never asked that,i was explaning to Travis-E that the reason i want to be able to lucid dream without having to sleep first is because you can't actually fall asleep conciously.so its an incosistent and limited way to enter the lucid dreaming worldspace.
i can't stand to fathom how you might have confused all these thingz with your own interpertation of them,but anyway it doesn't matter.
and no,there is no way to ''train'' yourself to fall asleep as you please,if there was,insomnia wouldn't be major problem in the US for the past deacde,do you know how much money goes into making insomnia pills? billionz.
i would be shocked,as well as very gratefull if instead of just ''thinking'' that its possible you actualy provided a method for it.

Your first question is basically asking for an idea how to enter LD once you are in a dream

i have again,not a single idea as to how you managed to reach that conclusion,i never once asked that question,this whole thread has been about Directly Entering A Lucid Dreaming State From A Waking State Therefore Bypassing Sleep,basically a WILD without having your body to fall asleep first.
it has exactly NOTHING to do with becoming lucid after alredy being in a dream,simply because dreams come after having alredy fallen asleep.

Please pay attention to what im saying im being Extreamly clear,i have no idea how your missing this im quoting myself :

what im trying to achive here,is NOT lucidity via SLEEP,

Just a thought - people might be more willing to help if you didn't talk down to them just for trying to understand exactly what it is your asking. We're just asking questions to get to the root of the problem so we can address it - no need to berate us if we take an accidental misstep here or there.

^^ That.

For what it's worth, Alij8000, I drew pretty much the same conclusions that Gab (and Travis, for that matter) drew from your posts. It was a bit confusing; it still is.

I think I finally understand what you are asking, and that understanding came near the end of your last post. How's this: you want to induce the conscious state, dream imagery and all, of a lucid dream without being asleep to do so.

If that is what you are asking, and I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong, then you might be on the wrong website. What you describe sounds much more like a form of waking-life meditation than it does dreaming. In other words, you really do have to be asleep in order to dream (lucid or not), so attaining, while awake, a state that yields imagery, stimuli, and experiences that resemble a lucid dreaming state would mean that you are not actually lucid dreaming, but doing something else altogether. This is because you must be asleep in order to dream; if you are not asleep and dreaming, then you are doing something else, even if the conscious state is similar to a lucid dream. What that something else might be, I'm not sure, but it sure sounds harder to achieve than just going to sleep and dreaming!

Now -- assuming I understand you correctly -- the state you are seeking sounds like a fine goal, even if it might be a bit more difficult to consistently realize than you are imagining. I suggest that you look into some of the deeper meditation sites, if you haven't already; I think the Transcendental Meditation people used to be doing something similar to this; that might be a good place to start. Also, I would imagine that developing the skills to achieve this state on demand will take a very long time to develop; perhaps even longer than learning to WILD "on demand."

Also, and to echo Spellbee, I hope you will forgive our misunderstanding of your question. Gab and Travis are among the best minds here, with substantial experience; please don't hold it against them because they assumed you were talking about dreaming, which you apparently were not (because dreaming, in the context of LD'ing, occurs exclusively during sleep). We really do wish to help, but your OP did seem to imply to our dream-oriented minds that you wanted to do something that included sleep, and actual dreams.

i know i confused a shit load of people,so it must be my mistake otherwise not everyone would've been confused xD,i've clearly not explained well what i was trying to achive appereantly,
thanks for your answer,Sageous,
really all i was really trying to achive by posting here was for someone to try and ask their spirit guide how to achive what i wanted since i wasn't experianced enough to maintain lucidity even tough my spirit guide was willing to teach me,yes you are right,the way to do it according to my guide is actualy very simmilar to transenditional meditations,
but i was hoping for a little more than ideas,maybe to get people intrested to try finding a way themselves trough their respective lucid dreams.
anywayz i'll probbably not need that now since just yesterday i had some 20 consecutive lucid dreams in a row in which i found a way to stay in the lucid dreaming world for as long as i wanted,litteraly it got me to a point where i was so physically exhausted i decided to wake up,i still didn't use it to learn the method i was after because i was simply overjoyed and felt like just roaming around in my LD worldspace and just kind of explore ,but im sure next time i will,
i would still greately appreciate if someone would also try asking their LD guide for directionz,as no one knows better than them.
also please accept my apologize if anyone felt like they were being treated rudely,it wasn't my intention.

Originally Posted by alij8000

just yesterday i had some 20 consecutive lucid dreams in a row in which i found a way to stay in the lucid dreaming world for as long as i wanted

Wow.

I don't believe you. I believe you. I don't know. But I guess I have lot's left to discover.

^ Yeah, I admit, that sounds farfetched.

Don't just brag about it, Show us! Perhaps, it's time to show all of us what you mean. You could open up a DJ, record all your ample amount of dreams from today and so on. Put as much detail as you can on there, this way we can get what you mean. Please show us your lucid and non-lucid recall and everything so we can help you. Just a thought.

Spoiler for Sorry:

Sorry for my rude comment. Posting my comment, my goal was not to question the claim. Rather, I was voicing this big question that I think about a lot. I've heard many claims that I find very hard to believe such as this one. But I find it very hard to believe that people lie about these claims. They don't have any reason to. So I am left with a paradox where I don't believe the claim and I don't believe they are liars. So, then I believe they might have a mental disorder (I'm being rude again, sorry) but that doesn't make too much sense either. Because they seem mentally healthy otherwise. Just, they dream for hours on end. I don't get it. Maybe I don't need to. But honestly, I would rather understand this than know what happens after death or any of the other more common questions with no answers. I wish I could understand people's impossible claims that I believe they truly experienced.

Sorry for changing the topic. This thread was meant to encourage people to ask their dream guide for teachings about attaining lucidity on demand and share. Not question peoples' experience. I'm sorry I started this and then criticizing it makes me an even bigger moron. Sorry for the interruption.

Originally Posted by alij8000

1-The dream does not wish you to gain the ability to LD on demand.
2-The dream is Very,VERY,good at stopping you each time you try.it goes so far as to kick you into awakening even.
3-I Have Indeed,Confirmed,it is possible to enter a lucid dream state on demand,it does not require prequisites or time,it can happen in as much as a minute,
i confirmed this with my spirit guide.
I have so far gotten to the part where he tells me how exactly its done,
you have to sit in a cross legged posture,with your spine fairly erect,and not just erect but more like erect in a speicifc way triggered at a specific mucle in your lower back.

I would keep on trying to ask the dream guide, How do go lucid? You could also, try asking another Spirit guide if this SG is not taking. Are you confident while you are lucid? Sometimes, it takes a little while before you can get an answer from your DC.
Perhaps, the dream journey is more important than getting the answer from the spirit guide themselves.

ok,so i saw some stuff about my ''claim'' not being real or whatever,honestly i don't even know why i would go on and say something that didn't happen least i was a lunatic or sth,
the day that i had those 20 consecutive lucid dreams i put this up
[lol, don't link other LDing forums here. If you want to share your experience, just copy paste it here. And while we are at this, a bit more formatting would make your posts easier to read and perhaps also comprehend]

i explain how i achived it there,
that was before i got any ''claim'' regardz , i wasn't really expecting someone to assume i had lied
anyway it doesn't matter,you may try the method yourself and if it doesn't work for you,then you may share that with everyone
,i really haven't taken any offense about it,being sceptical is ok,
i myself am kind of naive and i usually belive whatever people say and people have told me that i should be more carefull and their right.i soppouse its because of the surpluss of love i have for everyone xD.
also i saw mention of maybe sharing my experiance and writing journals on the dreams i had,well i have never actualy journaled my LDs i only ever journal my normal dreams,altough sometimes i take note of important thingz that could potentialy help me with my LD's and sometimes the experiances are so vivid that i never forget them wether i journal them or not,
however for the 20 consecutive LDs i had i will be honest,you may call me out to be a lier but what happend is that because of the mental and physical strain i had to go trough to maintain the continuity of each LD after each of them would fall apart and had to be reconstructed i barely remembered any of the dreams,i only remember the important parts of each dream,and the most exciting parts of them,i would say in the total of 20 LDs i only remembered the entering to each dream and the exiting and the few moments that i had to prepare myself as the dream was falling apart each time,also the partz in which i was stablizing each dream,those are some of the most vivid and memorable partz.i didn't keep a journal so all i have is my memory,but the next time i will surely record them for those who are intrested.
also,i haven't had any LD's after that last time,i accidentaly entered an LD at night when i was trying to sleep without having an LD because i needed rest but i dropped out as i had no intention to LD at that time,i've also been dealing with insomnia after that specific lucid dream continium unfortunetly.

I'm sorry! If I misunderstood what you are saying but, I agree with gab. It's very hard to read your posts. Perhaps, be a little mindful of what you are posting. Over the Internet, text rather than voice or emotion and intent can be difficult to judge. Even I'm horrible at that apparently.
Question? Are these your techniques or your personal goals? I am confuzzled.
I'm sure that there are people out there that would say the same thing about my ample amounts of nonlucid and lucid dreams that I have but, here is the thing; I Dream Journal what I can and take part in tasks of the month and such.
Journaling can help you with overcoming issues with coming and staying stable in a lucid dream. Yes, everyone is different. I don't exactly think that you are lying but, the forum wants their technique fool proof and such. You know what I mean?
Have you have any dreams after your last LD? What are you doing before going to bed? The only time that I have ever felt exhausted after waking up after a Lucid Dream was when I was sick.

IM DISCONTINUING THIS THREAD,I DID NOT FIND HOW TO REMOVE IT ENTIRELY,
ITS A WASTE OF MY TIME,AND YOURS,
it hasn't yield the results i wanted,no one even understands what this is about,probbably my mistake somewhere,at least 1 person should've gotten it if i had explained properly.
END OF THREAD.
or at least,my participation in it.

The Most Important thing to know for you to note :,
If you choose to join this thread,you are only asked of 1 single thing to do,
Spend a lucid dream,and ask your lucid dreaming guide,or spirit,this :
''How can i enter this reality,at any time i wished,without having to sleep first or undergo sleep paralysis''
that is all yo need to do,don't confuse yourself with any fegments of your imagination,don't change the question,and don't do anything else.
the spirit guide will answer you,possibly by asking you to follow his instructions.if he doesn't answer you,or answers you conceptualy (gets engaged with you in a conversation),then its not your dream guide,its a dream character and it has no intention of helping you,just leave it and try to find your dream guide again.

now that we are done with that,as to what this thread is about,
the goal of this thread is to ''find a way to enter lucid dreaming reality !Without! entering sleep paralysis,
imagine this,you have alredy slept many hours today,your body is fully energized you can't possibly fall asleep again,
your are for whatever reason,not relaxed at all,so you can't possibly hope for any kind of WILD to happen.
HOWEVER,(ASSUMING THE GOAL OF THIS THREAD HAS BEEN MET),you choose to sit on a chair,or lay in your bed,close your eyes,and open them DIRECTLY into the lucid dreaming reality,within an INSTANT,
please,DO NOT ADD some form of your imagination to this process,if you didn't understand what i just said,read it all over again until you do,
that is the kind of scenario we are trying to achive,so that we can lucid dream INFINITE TIMES per day,
for example lets say i had a lucid dream now and i want to have one again every 20 minutes for the next 8 hours,
i should be able to do it if the goal of this thread has been achived.

post the answeres given to you by your spirit guide here,and i will too,and hopefully within a few months of asking,
we will finaly have a way to spend as long as we want in our lucid reality going back and forth between the waking reality and the lucid dream reality as many times as we want in our daily lives.

Merged 2 threads. Identical topic, original already has substantial replies. New "clarified" doesn't provide any new information.

Try to make your point alij8000 without all the words around it.
1. what it is you trying to achieve - dream or another similar experience
2. when - during sleep (REM) or awake state during day
3. why you are not asking your own dream guide since you have one, and you are able to get a Lucid dream on demand, at any moment and many of them as you claim you had 20 in one night

Please eighter just remove this thread entirely,or stop harrasing it my lady,im finding it hard to belive you would geniunly miss everything written here and come back and ask me again.

1. what it is you trying to achieve - dream or another similar experience
ANSWER GIVEN PREVIOUSLY :
the goal of this thread is to ''find a way to enter lucid dreaming reality !Without! entering sleep paralysis
when - during sleep (REM) or awake state during day
ANSWER GIVEN PREVIOUSLY :
find a way to enter lucid dreaming reality !Without! entering sleep paralysis,
imagine this,you have alredy slept many hours today,your body is fully energized you can't possibly fall asleep again,
Note : unless you have ZERO idea what lucid dreaming actualy IS currently,ITS A PROCESS IN WHICH YOU ENTER SLEEP PARALYSIS AND THEN A DREAM.
IM CLEARLY STATING YOU ARE TO BYPASS SLEEP PARALYSIS,THIS MEANS YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY BE IN REM BECAUSE REM COMES AFTER YOUR BODY IS ALREDY A SLEEP.
3-and you are able to get a Lucid dream on demand, at any moment and many of them as you claim you had 20 in one night
FIRST POINT :
I HAVE NEVER ONCE SAID THAT I COULD LUCID DREAM ON DEMAND,YOU MADE THAT UP IN YOUR MIND.QUOTE ME SAYING I COULD TO PROVE OTHERWISE.
SECOND POINT :
I said the 20 Lucid dreams were CONSECUTIVE,meaning each one was started right after the last one had fell apart,this does not in ANY way indicate that i could lucid dream on demand,it simply means once i have actualy managed to enter one,i could come straight back to it each time the dream fell apart,it doesn't even indicate im good at lucid dreaming,it simply means if i happend to have a lucid dream,i continue coming back to it everytime it fell apart.and i clearly said in my last comment that i haven't had any lucid dreams since then,if i did,i would share the experiance with you and the answer i got from my spirit guide,
you'd have to have otherwordly intelegence to geniunly had missed everything i wrote before and proceeded to then ask me again,everything that i had alredy cleared.

consecutive
kənˈsɛkjʊtɪv
adjective
1.
following each other continuously.
"five consecutive months of serious decline"
synonyms: successive, succeeding, following, in succession, running, in a row, one after the other, back-to-back, continuous, solid, straight, uninterrupted, unbroken; informalon the trot
"shares prices fell for three consecutive days"

Your 20 in a row could be one and only divided into 20 by false awakenings.
Whatever, my opinion is : there is no way you can lucid dream without being asleep.
I don't believe there is any shorcut, and about the so called spirit guide, I only see it as a dream character, not sure what he will tell you will have any legit and useful meaning

Originally Posted by Kaan

Your 20 in a row could be one and only divided into 20 by false awakenings.
Whatever, my opinion is : there is no way you can lucid dream without being asleep.
I don't believe there is any shorcut, and about the so called spirit guide, I only see it as a dream character, not sure what he will tell you will have a real legit thing usefull meaning

i did not ask for your ''opinion''
i asked for your ''help''
so note that this kind of attitude does not help your or anyone else,this is not how breaktroughs are made,and also note,that you are dully,noted.
and lol,are u really suggesting i had 20 false awakenings? i don't think so.
,actually,my bad,i had asked for your opinion,in the original topic not the clarified version which our dear admin unfortunetly merged with the original even tough they are some 80% not the same.

Originally Posted by alij8000

so note that this kind of attitude does not help your or anyone else,this is not how breaktroughs are made,and also note,that you are dully,noted.

You should really take your own advice, alij8000. I'll repeat myself once more.

Originally Posted by spellbee2

Just a thought - people might be more willing to help if you didn't talk down to them just for trying to understand exactly what it is your asking. We're just asking questions to get to the root of the problem so we can address it - no need to berate us if we take an accidental misstep here or there.

Obviously, there's either a language or formatting barrier here. But denying this barrier exists and blaming the people who are trying to work through it doesn't instantly make it disappear. If you honestly can't state your question without alienating the people you're trying to get to "help" you, then I see no point in letting this or any similar thread go on any longer.

For what's it worth, imagination + binaural beats catarlyze a kind of static-dreamlike-canvas, atleast it did for me. in which you are fully lucid but there is no dream already in place so you make it on ur own.