Thread: WBTB + WILD help?

Hello again! Hope I’m not overstaying my welcome with all my newbie questions ;w;
Anyway, I’m attempting in a few days to combine WBTB and WILD (yes I know it’s not for beginners, no I don’t care). However, I usually sleep from 11:00 or 11:30 to 5:00 sharp. I’m unsure if I should either go to sleep earlier (~10:00) and WBTB at like 3:00, or if I should just do it at around 4:00. Which should I do? Any other advice?

Thanks in advance.

That's a personal thing. You'll have to identify the times you are most likely to be in REM. The goal is for the alarm to go off early on in one of the last the last REM-stages before you have to get up.

How to know if you are in REM: If you sleep alone there are apps that track your bodys movement during the night, REM will show as no movement..

If you share a bed then I would suggest getting an alarm clock that you can put inside your pillow that vibrates. You'll have to experiment with different alarm times till you land on a time when it is regularly waking you up from a REM dream. A REM dream is longer, often more continuous than other dreams and more vivid. Think of them like the blockbusters of dreams.

You'll also feel quite groggy if you wake up from REM. But most groggy when waking up in the stage after REM, stage 4. So if you wake up SUPER TIRED, then you're probably too late. If you wake easily then you're probably too early.

If you aim to LD regularly I would suggest you try and get more sleep if that's possible for you. I have found 23-7 to be a good compromise. But the longer I sleep the more likely I am to get lucid.

I would try some of the easier WILD-like methods in the beginning. There are quite a few, FILD or DEILD are popular. WILD can be difficult, and beginners usually take a really long time to even get close to falling asleep. As you already sleep very little, that could become a problem. If you are doing straight up WILD make sure you read the guides on the forum as there is a lot of bad information on WILD out there..

Originally Posted by LighrkVader

A REM dream is longer, often more continuous than other dreams and more vivid. Think of them like the blockbusters of dreams.

Hmm, isn't REM the only phase where dreams occur? I'm not a scientist (well, not in this profession) and wasn't following topic carefully lately, but I thought that dreams occur only in REM.
I remember reading something about theta alpha dreams or stuff, but it was long ago and nothing confirmed, really.
Please feel free to correct me.

Originally Posted by Maslak

Hmm, isn't REM the only phase where dreams occur?

No, dreams can occur during NREM sleep as well. This has been scientifically proven. https://academic.oup.com/sleep/artic...8/1486/2696770

Alright, I’ll keep that in mind. DEILD looks pretty good so I’ll look into it. I’ll also try to get more sleep for sure.

Thanks!

I do WBTB a few times a night without an alarm clock, because I wake up naturally from a dream a few times a night. You might be able to sleep 11 to 5, then get up as usual. Then do your WBTB+WILD instead of starting your day right then. Since 4-6 hours is what a lot of the guides recommend for WBTB. That seems like the easiest idea to me unless you have to do something else in the morning already.

Oh wow, that's interesting!

Thanks for the help everyone! My dream recall/vividity has been going up really quickly and I'm gearing up to continue where I left of on my first lucid.