Thread: What type of LD-er are you? CLASSIFICATIONS

No offense, but I have to disagree with these descriptions/generalizations.

For example, based on your classifications, I don't fit into any of your categories. Though I AM a natural LDer, I certainly don't have LDs every night. Sometimes I even have dry spells lasting a few weeks or more.

Originally Posted by Aquanina

No offense, but I have to disagree with these descriptions/generalizations.

For example, based on your classifications, I don't fit into any of your categories. Though I AM a natural LDer, I certainly don't have LDs every night. Sometimes I even have dry spells lasting a few weeks or more.

Very good point, I never thought of that.

I was also thinking, someone who isn't a natural can still end up having more LDs per week than a natural.

But it still let's you get the gist of the "classes"

only a beginner, I hope i can be a natural

Just a beginner, hoping to eventually attain natural or at least accomplished status. Gonna be a while, though.

Over-generalizations :\
Not everyone falls dead into these catagories. Like 'nina said, we can't be cut-and dried like this. Everyone's different.

I'd say that I'm in none of those categories. I'd say that I'm an intermediate LD, though I am lately getting many, they are only mediocre, but I do have good control, not great control, they last a mediocre amount of time.

Originally Posted by Aquanina

No offense, but I have to disagree with these descriptions/generalizations.

For example, based on your classifications, I don't fit into any of your categories. Though I AM a natural LDer, I certainly don't have LDs every night. Sometimes I even have dry spells lasting a few weeks or more.

thanks for the advice- I updated the definition.


There seems to be a lot of controversy surrounding the accomplished/low ability dreamers and who is what. Indeed, both are extremes and the DV populus is usually in between, each member transient and not holding any truly defined status. I could have split the definitions up into more like accomplished/expert/medium/beginner/etc however that would still be imperfect since the skill depends on a function of LD's per week



rather than doing that I just chose the 2 extremes.
especially since no DV member, say has a static 2 LD's per week every week no more and no less.

make me a natural...

It also doesn't take into account the quality of the dreams. That, I think, plays an important role. I know a few naturals who wake up the millisecond they become lucid. I know people who can work very hard, get maybe 4 lucids a year, but they seem to last at least half an hour and they accomplish tons of dream goals.

I dunno, I disagree strongly with this post, especially the "HERE IS THE WAY IT IS" presentation. I'm not really all for these classifications, especially because there ARE no set definitions or categories, and I don't believe these should be them even if I wanted there to be.

I'm a beginner. I have been trying for 2 months and my recall is terrible, and I haven't had a single lucid yet. A lot of that has to do with my motivation lately.

:/

Originally Posted by Shift

It also doesn't take into account the quality of the dreams. That, I think, plays an important role. I know a few naturals who wake up the millisecond they become lucid. I know people who can work very hard, get maybe 4 lucids a year, but they seem to last at least half an hour and they accomplish tons of dream goals.

I dunno, I disagree strongly with this post, especially the "HERE IS THE WAY IT IS" presentation. I'm not really all for these classifications, especially because there ARE no set definitions or categories, and I don't believe these should be them even if I wanted there to be.

I completely agree.

I don't really think that most people can be categorized like this.


But I'd say I'm the one with the plant. ^_^

Accomplished dreamer, although there should still be more categories.


The quiz put me at Natural though.

t also doesn't take into account the quality of the dreams. That, I think, plays an important role. I know a few naturals who wake up the millisecond they become lucid. I know people who can work very hard, get maybe 4 lucids a year, but they seem to last at least half an hour and they accomplish tons of dream goals.

yeah you could have 999 different categories- I've tried narrowing it down to the extremes. Personally I don't consider a dream were you wake up the instant you become lucid an actual LD. (other people's opinions may varry- I just have numerous FA's where I'm writing down my dream in my DJ and suddenly I'm like "aww nuts this is a dream" and wake up)

I dunno, I disagree strongly with this post, especially the "HERE IS THE WAY IT IS" presentation.

HERE IS THE WAY IT IS

I'm not really all for these classifications, especially because there ARE no set definitions or categories, and I don't believe these should be them even if I wanted there to be.

for lucid dreaming to progress it should be scrutinized and classified.

especially because there ARE no set definitions or categories,

now this really stung. is there supposed to be someone on top of a hill who says "these are the definitions" or indeed should laberge come and give the definitions? The beauty of Dreamviews is that everyone can participate in defining what exactly lucid dreamers are

Well your thread never said "Guys, how do you think we ought to classify LDs?" it just sort of said "Here I've come up with the classification system." and to have been presented as a definitive explanation of the 'classes' of lucid dreams, I think it was an incredibly oversimplified and narrow range that was discussed.

The only reason I'd prefer that someone like Laberge do it is because I have the feeling they'd be very objective and systematic about it, taking the myriad of factors into account and considering every possible aspect of a lucid dream, versus people who haven't dedicated their entire life to lucid dreaming (not just your recreation and sleep time, but also your academic, professional, and personal life and career) and probably couldn't even think up half the factors that could be playing a role.

I mean you could define them by length, memory, vividness, number of senses, reason for induction, complexity of the dream environment, need to stabilize, emotions experienced, attitude toward your lucidity, varying degrees of sensory perception (ie if you can see, how many colors CAN you see), first or third person, reality checks needed to establish you are dreaming, prevalence of uncontrollable dream urges/desires, level of logic in the dream environment, number/types/behaviors/whatever of dream characters present, god it just goes on and on and I've only spent about three minutes typing this.

The problem I have with this thread, besides the narrow scope of factors considered, is the fact that these qualities are transient. They don't remain constant, they can only be applied to a specific dream or a certain time span of a lucid dreamer or oneironaut's dreaming, and it could change with the slightest change. Stress, motivation, dedication, practice during the day, general dream memory, amount of sleep, foods consumed, medication, exhaustion level, etc. So to just have a short list of "Here's How It Is" is, IMO, so drastically oversimplifying that it has gone to the point of irrelevance.

And, as usual, the whole 'what is a natural dreamer' debate. Like I said, these things vary by the person using the term and so if dreamviews (hardly the authority on lucid dreaming, just a large community of people wanting to learn to do it from a few very basic resources) wants to establish 'official dreamviews LDer categories', then I think it should involve a lot of deliberation and consideration between the staff and community members. As I would in any other circumstance, I'm not going to just agree with something that someone made up simply because they went ahead and did something that I strongly disagree with it.

What we absolutely shouldn't do is let people with a desire to classify themselves as "naturals" classify what a natural is.

Don't think its that big an issue really.
The LD community has a rigerous obsession with classing MILDS, DILDS, FILDS, WILDS, if it moves we, as a community, manage to classify it.
It serves a useful purpose.

Not sure why the term "Naturals" should be considered so special.

low level, unfortunately...
I'm kind of jealous of all the naturals out there...

I'm a natural

Can't see the problem with attempting to define a "natural" lucid dreamer.
The range of definitions I've seen used in DV is fairly broad.

I suspect the problem is that many LDers like to describe themselves as "natural" for the Kudos. So of course they're going to grumble when they find out that, actually, they're maybe not the messiah of Lucid dreaming.

I'd describe myself as accomplished.

I've given the inductions a miss for the last couple of months.
I've also only been recording only my most interesting dreams.
But I do maintain a good dream awareness and still spend a few minutes remembering them each morning when I wake up.
As a result, with little effort, I'm still managing at least 1 spontaneous lucid a week.

Some people might be inclined to label themselves a natural based on the above. Not me thought!

I heard about Lucid Dreaming 2 years ago, and I 've had at about 15 LDs so far, but considering the fact that i started writing my DJ just today i would say I am a NOOB, a beginner.

Low ability dreamer... I guess haha

Well, i think i was in all of these categories at a point of my life.

I was a natural LDer ocasionally while i was a child. Rare times, countable through the fingers of an hand, but i had some natural LDs.

I was a beginner when i discovered this website for the first time and found that they were inducible. Then i practised really hard and i became an accomplished LDer. I didn't pass throught he low level at that time.

Now i got a lot to do in university so i'm more into studying. So, i would say that at moment i am a Low level LDer as i'm not much focused anymore but, eventually, i'll try to regain my skills.

I think just 4 categories are too narrow to fit all of the possibilities that there are.

Originally Posted by Junknown

I think just 4 categories are too narrow to fit all of the possibilities that there are.

please read the entire thread. these are the "extremes", people usually are somewhere in between

Originally Posted by yuriythebest

please read the entire thread. these are the "extremes", people usually are somewhere in between

It wouldn't take much effort to add a few more general categories:

Beginner - Occasional LD, one or twice a month
Novice - Has LDs 2 to 3 times a every month, better control over them
Dreamer - Has LDs once a week, has average control
Advance Dreamer - Has 1 to 3 LDs a week, better control on dreams
Expert - Has 3 or more dreams a week, can control nearly every aspect of a dream decently, can enter dreams in a variety of ways


Seems a little better.

Or just none at all. Seems infinitely better.