Thread: Enough Is Enough

I'm sick of this.
I have been trying to LD for 2 years, without success.
All of my near-experiences were 2 vivid dreams, and 40+ dreams of lucid dreaming (not LD itself), and these made me understand that it's IMPOSSIBLE for me to DILD, because, as I see....to have lucid dreams I must have a lucid dream first....via WILD/DEILD.
You could say "oh man come on you are almost there" or "keep trying" or "just take a break", but that's doesn't make any sense anymore. 2 years of frustration is a lot of time. This is a list of all the things I've tried:

-Being aware on waking life (nah, it didn't work at all, I became more aware JUST in waking life, but not in dreams, my dreams didn't change at all)
-Dream Journal (I remembered a bit more of dreams, but anything. I found that it is not neccesary to keep one as long as I want to remember my dreams and as long as I wake up in the middle of the night....)
-Mild (It didn't work at all, I tried all the possible ways..and NOTHING)
-Wild (Everything tried, sleeping in weird positions...sleeping normally...trying to sleep instead of being aware and viceversa... only caused me to have dreams of lucid dreaming....)

I even tried taking breaks of 1-2 months..and nothing.
I tried to relax and do my techniques without stressing, in a relaxing way and being hiper motivated...but nothing!
I tried, but not too much, to use my prospective memory(I'm still working on it, doing daily excercises...I'm going to stop doing them in a couple of days because I already have a very very good prospective memory, when I first started I had a 40% of accuracy...now I do 90%), so it's probably that I will keep trying with this a bit more...
I tried DEILD!! I woke up 3 WITHOUT moving...I heard a zoooom...got a bit excited...and it ended, but I often have these opportunities after a dream of lucid dreaming.

I'm not generally stressed, I do sports and all of that. But you need to understand something. The frustration of not having a LD ruined part of my life. It made me discover a lot of things, so I NEED to have one. I tried to understand that it's not really neccesary to have LD's to become successful in waking life, of course I understand that. But not having LD causes me to be apathic with those I love, causes me to lost a lot of opportunities, causes me to LOSE TIME, precious time. why? because all this time I idealized LD, and I understood it's something vital to grow. Having just 1 LD, will make me free. Being free on dreams will make me free on waking life A LOT FASTER that anything. I'm wasting some things of my life just because I didn't have a LD.
It's just that having a LD will relax my mind a lot, because when I get it at last, It will relax all my mind. Just because I accomplished something that stressed me for a lot of time. It will just make me free of this stress.

I'm tired.
What can I do?

Actually, I'm finishing my prospective memory excercise. What I'm going to do once finished, is try for 2 weeks to wake up in the middle of the dream so I Deild. If it doesn't work, then I don't know what's going to work, maybe nothing.
Come on, there is a lot of things I can do, and LD will help me stay motivated and stay fresh in life.

Bye.

Yeah, okay, first things first, a dream journal honestly does help, and is good for a lot more than simply remembering your dreams. It's there to help catalog dream signs, which you can use your prospective memory to try and recognize in a dream. Have you tried VILD? Someone has a great tutorial on the site somewhere, and I find it one of the easier (if not more fun) methods. The bouncing around between methods also may not be such a great idea. Pick one or two, and focus on them. And losing out on life for the dream world is not such a great idea. Real life is awesome! The dream world will always be there, but your actions in reality have consequences. If you're getting stressed, this will only hurt your chances of having a lucid dream. And if you're this wound up, then you're more likely than not to wake up from your first lucid within a couple of seconds. It's going to take time and practice before you're hurling cars around with your mind. Granted, it has been two years, which is longer than a lot of people, but everyone is different. It will come in time...

here's my advice:

1. talk to someone who has had success with an REM dreamer (i haven't needed to get one, although it would be cool - XeL and evildoctor are two who come to mind, but i haven't really looked into it).

2. throw out every technique. just forget about them for a while. think about some things that would be really fun to do, but are relatively straightforward. think about this before bed and when you wake up throughout the night. you'll probably end up having dreams with this theme and be able to catch this without stressing over it like you have been - that should get you through this phase.

as a supplement to my normal practice, i also think about something i love to have in dreams: freedom of movement. sometimes i'll mute a video of skateboarding, snowboarding, inline skating or something like that, play some music, and just enjoy the thought of being able to do these things. a lot of times my imagination extends this theme and i end up doing some cool things in dreams - it's fun even if i'm not really lucid, but it's nice to be lucid from that, too. if for some reason my normal technique isn't clicking for a few days, this picks up after it and isn't something i worry about at all.

another thing, start thinking about timing. maybe you're sleeping too heavily and not waking between sleep cycles or something.

a dream journal honestly does help, and is good for a lot more than simply remembering your dreams. It's there to help catalog dream signs, which you can use your prospective memory to try and recognize in a dream.

Nop, it's not necessary for me. I already found some of my dreamsigns, and even reacted to them, but didn't become lucid, just dreamed of being lucid.

Have you tried VILD? Someone has a great tutorial on the site somewhere, and I find it one of the easier (if not more fun) methods.

Of course I tried that

The bouncing around between methods also may not be such a great idea. Pick one or two, and focus on them.

AHAHA! I tried every technique for like 3 months!

And losing out on life for the dream world is not such a great idea. Real life is awesome!

I didn't lose my life for the dream world, I even become a better person, I told you that not HAVING one stressed me a lot, because I know that there are a lot of things I can do in waking life, but I'm not prepared yet, so there's LD, to give me motivation and confidence.

If you're getting stressed, this will only hurt your chances of having a lucid dream. And if you're this wound up, then you're more likely than not to wake up from your first lucid within a couple of seconds.

I TOLD YOU, that for 3 months I didn't get stressed, and did my practice relaxed..and fucking nothing.

It's going to take time and practice before you're hurling cars around with your mind. Granted, it has been two years, which is longer than a lot of people, but everyone is different. It will come in time...

As I see, this is the same thing people say to the one who can't LD. But you don't understand yet. It's going to take time and practice? oh ok, are you kidding? I practiced excellently and patiently for months and months! with a lot of constancy!
And NO, it won't come in time, that just doesn't make any sense anymore, you can say that to somebody who did things wrong, but I did everything perfectly, and still didn't have one.

It's ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Mariano

Nop, it's not necessary for me. I already found some of my dreamsigns, and even reacted to them, but didn't become lucid, just dreamed of being lucid.

And you stopped? Bro, that's borderline. That is a working method. If you're stuck in the ocean ten miles away from land, you don't swim nine miles, give up, and swim back. A fun thing you could do with a dream journal is to look at your dreams and identify at what point(s) you should have realized you were dreaming, then change the dream to read as if you were lucid. One of the many tools available.

Of course I tried that

Well, you didn't mention it...just trying to help, mate.

AHAHA! I tried every technique for like 3 months!

You said that you were dreaming about lucid dreaming. Not only a magnificent dream sign, but also a sign that you're very close. See the ocean analogy above.

I didn't lose my life for the dream world, I even become a better person, I told you that not HAVING one stressed me a lot, because I know that there are a lot of things I can do in waking life, but I'm not prepared yet, so there's LD, to give me motivation and confidence.

Being stressed and sacrificing like this: "But not having LD causes me to be apathic with those I love, causes me to lost a lot of opportunities, causes me to LOSE TIME, precious time" is not healthy. That is far from living life to the fullest. I get your frustration with not having a lucid dream, but rather than worry about it and lose sleep over it, so to speak, why not just let it go? Is the trade-off between obsessing over lucid dreaming and lost opportunities really worth it? It's a question only you can answer, but I would recommend seriously reconsidering your priorities.

I TOLD YOU, that for 3 months I didn't get stressed, and did my practice relaxed..and fucking nothing.

Again, different strokes, different folks. You may not have had much luck in those first three months, but getting aggravated certainly isn't going to help.

As I see, this is the same thing people say to the one who can't LD. But you don't understand yet. It's going to take time and practice? oh ok, are you kidding? I practiced excellently and patiently for months and months! with a lot of constancy!
And NO, it won't come in time, that just doesn't make any sense anymore, you can say that to somebody who did things wrong, but I did everything perfectly, and still didn't have one.

It's ridiculous.

Wow, lot of hate in that post. Just trying to help, bro. Now look, there are a hell of a lot of ways to go about trying to induce a lucid dream, many of which most people haven't ever considered, or even conceived. What works for one person may work shitty for someone else, such as yourself. Could be that you're just unlucky enough to have the most commonly known methods not work for you. That could very well be the case. At this point, you might as well experiment. Go forth and try anything; everything. Do all the methods all at once, then throw in the requirement that you wake up three times in the middle of the night at arbitrary times to read a chapter of ETWOLD and recite the Lucid Dreamer's Pledge of Allegiance. Whatever floats your boat. It's either that, or you can pick one method and stick with it for another couple of years, or you could honestly just give up and resign yourself to the possibility that you are unable to lucid dream, though you would be the first case of this I've ever seen. Look...just do whatever brings you the most happiness. If that includes banging your head against a wall with the promise that one day it will pay off, then great. Or, maybe walk away from the wall and go enjoy life while it rots away.

Maby the problem is attitude. If you expect lucid dreaming to be hard to do than it is hard to do. It gets alot easier after the first one. btw

Have you tried stopping? Like, just stop, completely, maybe for a whole month. Don't forcefully stop yourself from thinking of lucid dreaming, but stop thinking about it, stop coming to dreamviews for lucid dreaming advice, stop doing reality checks. Just enjoy your dreams for what they are. You might get something out of that. I know I did.

Madmonkey:
I already think that LD is extremely easy. Oh well, DILD is impossible and I explained why.

Marvo:
I stopped everything for 4 months....I did everything you said.

Originally Posted by Mariano

Madmonkey:
I already think that LD is extremely easy. Oh well, DILD is impossible and I explained why.

Marvo:
I stopped everything for 4 months....I did everything you said.

And what did you get out of it? Did you enjoy your dreams more?

Truth to be told, I think you are right on needing to have first a LD via WILD to have success on DILD, you know I passed through the same and also had to get a WILD before being able to DILD, so yeah, at least you got it off your chest?
I would say don't worry, but WILD may be a pain and take another month or so just don't stress the WILD, I know you are mad right now, but it will work out.

Hang in there, I've only had 1 LD and it was a DILD the night after I heard about the website but it only lasted a millisecond because I woke up instantly .

As for the WILD, I been trying it too, about 7 attempts so far? All have been unsuccessful so far but every time I try I learn/experience something new which will help in the long run. Also have you tried taking some caffeine? My closest experience to having a WILD was when I had some coffee before going to sleep. It keeps you awake enough but if you take too much (like me) you won't be able to enter your dream... . Also thats assuming your not using a WBTB method, coffee takes around 30 minutes to get into your system so it won't work if you are doing the WBTB method.

Sorry to hear that bro. I know I have had spells were I couldn't get a LD for like a year even while keeping a dream journal and doing reality checks and everything. Its must be pretty frustrating for you. But if you keep trying I think you will be able to do it. However you have to follow people's advice. Keeping a dream journal is a very important aspect. It helps with dream recall among other things. A good technique that helps me is to take short naps in the afternoon / early evening. Usually I will have vivid dreams and possibly lucid dreams with this quick power naps. Also the most reliable dream sign for me that helps me go lucid is trying to read small text. In a dream is always changes and shifts and is a tell-tale sign that you are dreaming. So if you just pay attention to things like that eventually you will wake up in your dreams.

Watch you get an LD tonight. Watch. It. Happen.
Irony's Law.

Having an overexcited mind and a very tired body can be quite the combination for getting the wheel turning. One way I had many of my first experiences was on accident when I stayed up ridiculously late playing video games. I would lay down in bed exhausted and all sorts of things would happen... loud noises, and Hypnagogic imagery like crazy. It was usually very scary at first. I'd be afraid to lay down even knowing it was nothing, it was scary even if you knew it wasn't real. After a while though I could begin to minimize the fear and make something of the experience. If you are looking to try something not mentioned yet, here is something. All I know is if you do this on the weekends or any chance you have to stay up late, while it might not be the most healthy, it will make things happen (It will make HI so strong you can't ignore it, then at least you'll be more intimate with HI). It will also throw out your sleep patterns and force your mind to hit REM sleep at different intervals as you catch up on the lost sleep the next night. The video games I used to play had me enthralled, so if you don't have anything like this to play - then coffee or soft drinks may help you to stay up. I would say stay awake 20 hours, not more than 24... just me.

Though I'm really surprised a committed WBTB, and DEILD effort did not give you results, especially if it was in combination with a dream journal.

You just need something to make your mind overactive as you fall into sleep. For me it was video games. It's not just to stay up really late on it's own. You also need something that will overstimulate your mind.

Tried adding vitamin B supplements before going to sleep and such? Omega-3/6/9 and plenty of protein during the day, and vitamin B when you go to bed. And sometimes warm milk.

All of the above makes my dream activity go up and makes them more vivid.



(I might add, I didnt start taking those supplements for the sake of dreaming, but for my training. Then I suddenly started to dream like if I was a child.)

Give up. Theres my advice.

Seeking to look within? Note first the difference in outlook between...

Originally Posted by Mariano

The frustration of not having a LD ruined part of my life...I NEED to have one. I tried to understand that it's not really neccesary to have LD's to become successful in waking life, of course I understand that. But not having LD causes me to be apathic with those I love, causes me to lost a lot of opportunities, causes me to LOSE TIME, precious time. why? because all this time I idealized LD, and I understood it's something vital to grow. Having just 1 LD, will make me free. Being free on dreams will make me free on waking life A LOT FASTER that anything. I'm wasting some things of my life just because I didn't have a LD...

& these irreverent dreamers:

Originally Posted by Loaf

- Post any dare you wish. Jump off a tower, eat a cockroach, fall into a bed of needles.
- By posting a dare, you must accept a dare.
- When / if completing a dare, enter it into your DJ and / or post it directly here, for others to read.

Originally Posted by mattbrox

Drink water out the toilet

Originally Posted by Loaf

Lick a dog

Why do you suppose Oscar Wilde said "life is too important to take seriously".

Because, as Castaneda noted "self-importance is...the nemesis of mankind…" and as he elaborated through his Don Juan character in The Art of Dreaming:

"Most of our energy goes into upholding our importance. This is most obvious in our endless worry about the presentation of the self, about whether or not we are admired or liked or acknowledged. If we are capable of losing some of that importance, two extraordinary things happen to us. One, we free our energy from trying to maintain the illusory idea of our grandeur; and, two, we provide ourselves with enough energy to enter into the second attention to catch a glimpse of the actual grandeur of the universe."

You could try meditating. I have lucid dreams rather frequently, but when I meditate I get them more often. Training one's awareness to be at rest in the present moment in waking life will transfer over to the dream world. If you are at rest in the present moment you notice more, and if you notice more you have a better chance of noticing that you are asleep.

Also, I would not give up unless you have read Laberge's Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming. It's recommended by almost all the advanced dreamers. I'm halfway through it and already getting minor results (though it could be major that anything worked already on any level).

I'm with Tranquil Toad on the meditation if you haven't already tried it. It may or may not work for you, but it definitely worked for me. I used chakra meditation maybe once or twice, and ever since I've gotten LDs atleast every few nights. Now all I do is clear my mind before I go to bed, and I can get a decent amount of lucids.

You know if the only thing you didn't do right is have a consistent dream journal and its been two years I'd think it would be a good idea to get one.

damn two years of practice and no lucid dream. i dont know what to say. i had my first LD a week after trying.

You seem to be stressing way too much, and probably just lack the confidence/belief that you will have a lucid. I tried for 6 months on and off to get a lucid, and then I got like 7 in the past few weeks. If you are focused and belief they will occur, they will. I used only WBTB and MILD, and I got a few random DILDs too. Everyone is capable of an LD as long as they do dream.