Thread: Do you think Chakras have anything to do with the solar system?

Sacred Geometry is a means of describing every natural 'thing' in the cosmos. The solar system and the chakras and trees and galaxies and light and sound and crystals and plants and skeletons and facial features etc etc etc all follow the same basic geometric principles.

Which are?

Dividing a circle into 'perfect' shapes. Where each line and each angle is equal. Golden ratio, etc. And sacred geometry each shape or angle has a meaning, Dividing a circle by 4 has a different meaning than if it is divided by 5. Like 4, or square, means Earth and stability and physical house, four elements, etc. etc. Where five (pentagon, pentagram) means perfection and mind over matter, aesthetic perfection and is the root of the Golden ratio. Our bones, every plant, every animal, smoke rising from incense, the galaxy, etc. all are related to the golden ratio.

It is a vast subject, there are good books on the subject, But we had a sacred geometry thread before where the skeptics trolled the thing to death. Perhaps we can start another one in inner sanctum where the fundamentals can be explained without every post being ridiculed. It is a philosophy of geometry, like astrology is a philosophy of astronomy, so if people don't want to believe it, that is their right.

Theres a good video on Ted, and while it doesn't mention Sacred Geometry, it inadvertently uses it to formulate a scientific theory of everything! Sacred Geometry can be dated back to the ancient Egyptians, the oldest known image of the Flower of Life. You can approach Sacred Geometry mathematically, or visually. I'm a visual person..so....This is the Flower of Life.



This image first started as a single point. Like Dannon said, everything in Sacred Geometry has a meaning. The single point represents Unity Consciousness or God (or if you like the singularity). It's considered sacred by the mystics because all Sacred Geometry spawns from a single source, and everything is interrelated. The single point becomes two points, which represents duality. Duality is needed to create anything because creation is the relationship between two or more things (else you just have a singularity).

The two points dance around each other, maintaining an equal distance. What's created are two circles. The eye shape is called the Vesica Pisces and represents the womb of creation (because its the union of dual forces, or contracting and expanding forces of the universe)



The Flower of Life (oldest known example of Sacred Geometry) is created by continuing this pattern. Continue that pattern and you get the Fruit of Life, which contains Metraton's Cube and all of the platonic solids which describe the physical world.



If you continue the pattern you get Nature's First Pattern, which is an infinite pattern, not only does it expand horizontally, but smaller circles fit into larger largers and so on and so on, infinitely. Nature's First Pattern is also said to describe the frequencies and harmonics of sound and light. And likewise, those very same frequencies generate sacred geometry patterns such as when you put sand over a stereo. It's also important to remember that while traditionally it's drawn 2d, Sacred Geometry is considered to be 3d. (creating infinite more relationships than a 2d drawing)

Going back to the video. The interesting thing about the Ted video is that this is a theory of everything, that all those laws of physics relate back to this one thing. And that this one thing describes the geometry and the relationships between everything in nature.

In the video, he uses geometry to chart out the known particles and how they relate. But the image was incomplete, it wasn't perfect. By completing the pattern, he theorized there are over 20 unknown particles.

Anyways, all that stuff goes over my head. All I know is Sacred Geometry when I see it.
ted_flowroflife.jpg

Look familiar? It should, that's the Flower of Life.

ted_particles.jpg

The circled particles where the ones missing from the pattern, the ones he theorizes we've yet to discover. So whether or not he realizes it, he used Sacred Geometry to formulate an important scientific theory.

ted_pretty.jpg

Pretty particles!

Here's the video if you haven't seen it already

Garrett Lisi on his theory of everything | Video on TED.com

Garrett Lisi is talking about the lie group E8. This has nothing to do with "sacred geometry". "Sacred geometry" is nothing but looking at pretty pictures that real mathematicians sometimes make and sticking new-age bullshit on it. It is incredibly insulting to the thousands of real mathematicians that spend their life doing real work and to the real physicists that spend their life trying to understand how the real universe really works.

When somebody that practices "sacred geometry" says that they can explain a phenomenon, it means that they can draw a pretty picture and wave their hands over it. When a physicist or mathematician says that they can explain a phenomenon, it means that they can provide quantitative and falsifiable predictions about a system.

Please recognize how ludicrous it is of you to attempt to justify "sacred geometry" with the work of a real physicist.

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

Dividing a circle into 'perfect' shapes. Where each line and each angle is equal. Golden ratio, etc. And sacred geometry each shape or angle has a meaning, Dividing a circle by 4 has a different meaning than if it is divided by 5. Like 4, or square, means Earth and stability and physical house, four elements, etc. etc. Where five (pentagon, pentagram) means perfection and mind over matter, aesthetic perfection and is the root of the Golden ratio. Our bones, every plant, every animal, smoke rising from incense, the galaxy, etc. all are related to the golden ratio.

It is a vast subject, there are good books on the subject, But we had a sacred geometry thread before where the skeptics trolled the thing to death. Perhaps we can start another one in inner sanctum where the fundamentals can be explained without every post being ridiculed. It is a philosophy of geometry, like astrology is a philosophy of astronomy, so if people don't want to believe it, that is their right.

What reasons do you have for believing any of this?

Also, can you define the golden ratio?

Originally Posted by juroara

Going back to the video. The interesting thing about the Ted video is that this is a theory of everything, that all those laws of physics relate back to this one thing. And that this one thing describes the geometry and the relationships between everything in nature.

Explain superconductivity using Sacred Geometry.

Predict what happens when you put sodium in water using Sacred Geometry.

Prove the infinitude of primes using Sacred Geometry.

Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned

Garrett Lisi is talking about the lie group E8. This has nothing to do with "sacred geometry".

Tell me, since when has geometry ever been separated from math?

Even in the video Garret Lisi shows that there is a mathematical side to his geometric patterns that the scientists work on. What I showed you was the geometry of Sacred Geometry. But to say that geometry has nothing to do with science is false. There is a genuine mathematical side to Sacred Geometry that describes the nature of nature.

It's not possible to understand or to even discuss the fullness of Sacred Geometry in a single post, let alone a thread

Sacred Geometry was used in that video, whether or not you like it. That is the Flower of Life, as seen in the ancient temples of the Egyptians

Originally Posted by Xei

What reasons do you have for believing any of this?

It has nothing to do with Dannon's beliefs. It's fact. I learned this my art history class. I also learned that nature everywhere tries to mimic the golden ratio. But because forms in nature aren't infinite like the golden ratio, it only approximates to it as close as possible - such as through the Fibonacci sequence.

Explain superconductivity using Sacred Geometry.

I'm not a scientist, nor did I ever said I was. Nor did I ever say I was an expert on Sacred Geometry, as I said in my last thread, I was learning Sacred Geometry, and it takes years do you understand YEARS to really understand all there is to Sacred Geometry.

But I don't have any reason to doubt Sacred Geometry. Not after that Ted video, when the most famous and important forms of Sacred Geometry describe the relationships of the smallest particles known.

And I don't know how you guys can pretend that he didn't use the geometric pattern to formulate a theory that there are more unknown particles, when he himself says that's exactly what he's done.

Why is it so hard to understand that there is a geometry to all math, and math describes how the Universe goes round? But even more, considering that representation of math is a language created by intelligent ape-men living on one planet out of billions, geometry is the universal language, not math.

Originally Posted by juroara

It has nothing to do with Dannon's beliefs. It's fact. I learned this my art history class. I also learned that nature everywhere tries to mimic the golden ratio. But because forms in nature aren't infinite like the golden ratio, it only approximates to it as close as possible - such as through the Fibonacci sequence.

Yeah, I was talking to Dannon obviously. You've been here a while so I'm surprised you haven't gotten to grips with how the forum works yet.

But anyway no. In some places the Fibonacci Sequence arises naturally, and hence the golden ratio emerges. This happens in pine cones, shells, and sunflower heads notably. However these few things are miniscule compared to the whole of nature. How do you justify the extrapolation?

And I ask you the same question I asked Dannon; can you actually define the golden ratio?

I'm not a scientist, nor did I ever said I was. Nor did I ever say I was an expert on Sacred Geometry, as I said in my last thread, I was learning Sacred Geometry, and it takes years do you understand YEARS to really understand all there is to Sacred Geometry.

But I don't have any reason to doubt Sacred Geometry. Not after that Ted video, when the most famous and important forms of Sacred Geometry describe the relationships of the smallest particles known.

And I don't know how you guys can pretend that he didn't use the geometric pattern to formulate a theory that there are more unknown particles, when he himself says that's exactly what he's done.

Why is it so hard to understand that there is a geometry to all math, and math describes how the Universe goes round? But even more, considering that representation of math is a language created by intelligent ape-men living on one planet out of billions, geometry is the universal language, not math.

Since when was geometry ever separate from math?

You can't even be consistent with what you said two seconds ago, let alone make any consistent objective sense.

As you failed with my examples, can I ask you to give one example of a basic thing that you can explain or predict using Sacred Geometry?

Originally Posted by Xei

In some places the Fibonacci Sequence arises naturally, and hence the golden ratio emerges. This happens in pine cones, shells, and sunflower heads notably. However these few things are miniscule compared to the whole of nature. How do you justify the extrapolation?

And I ask you the same question I asked Dannon; can you actually define the golden ratio?

It's a ratio or a proportion between two things. What makes it important is how prevalent it is in nature, to the formation of life, right down to the quantum level. What makes it important is that it isn't random. The numerical translation may look random, which is why geometry - the pure language of the universe - is important. Because the geometrical form of the golden ratio is a spiral. A very ordered self-repeating pattern. But its only one example of what you can derive from Sacred Geometry.

You can't even be consistent with what you said two seconds ago

I don't know what you mean. But you seem to think that I said that I know first hand that Sacred Geometry explains everything in nature, when I was giving you a historical understanding of what Sacred Geometry is and why it was considered sacred. And its considered sacred, because ancient mystics believed that it explained everything in the natural world. I also said that Garrett himself makes the same claim about his own geometric pattern, that his geometric pattern in essence is a theory of everything. And since he's a scientist, I don't think he would make that claim unless he meant it!

Don't ask me how, I'm not the one making either claim! But what I was trying to show, that both claims are actually the same. And LOOK the same.

As you failed with my examples, can I ask you to give one example of a basic thing that you can explain or predict using Sacred Geometry?

The geometry by which life uses to organize itself (DNA!!), harmonics, frequencies, states of consciousness, the structure of minerals, crystals and atoms, and thanks to that Ted video, the relationship between particles which might be a shape itself as suggested at the ending.

Sacred Geometry doesn't predict or explain the way you would probably like it to, not that it can't, but you would probably need a mathematician to study it. What it does is show to the every day person is how interrelated everything is. Such as with frequency and form, which scientists speculate are actually the same thing, just on two different ends of the spectrum.

In other words, what Sacred Geometry reveals very beautifully, is that reality is holographic. Every geometry in Sacred Geometry is virtually a fractal of another geometry in Sacred Geometry and so on and so on. They say that the Universe might actually be the shape of a torus. Which you can also derive from Sacred Geometry.

Why is any of this important? To the human being Sacred Geometry offers us an insight of that which directly relates to our being, for our own benefit. If you understand the subject, you can see directly what color relates to what sound, what sound relates to what form, and how it relates back to us. For example: With this knowledge you can create architecture that benefits our being, even more, architecture that evokes a particular state of consciousness. Such as the Egyptian pyramids. And I'm not talking about subjectively, I'm talking about literally. The pyramid creates a frequency that directly relates back to human consciousness.

That's what Sacred Geometry is all about, the interrelationship between everything. I think the Egyptians knew exactly how the pyramid, especially at that scale, would influence a human mind! Mandalas do the same thing. They use specific colors and shapes that directly relate to a particular sound or frequency that once again directly relates to consciousness. It's a science and an art.

Sacred Geometry has to the capacity to hold information. Just like math is information. But geometry is a pure form of information, and a single geometry can hold a lot of information. Imagine we came into contact with an alien race. Our languages, how we write, what we use for our math is so wildly different, translating can take months, or years. But the aliens instead offer us a geometric drawing.

(just a mental example!)



We can say "pretty picture", or decipher it.

The funny thing is that I tried to start talking about symmetry groups in the other "sacred geometry" thread. People interested in "sacred geometry" were remarkably uninterested and accused me of trolling. This is funny because symmetry groups end up being at the bottom of pretty much everything.

Now some physicists uses one to postulate the existence of additional particles and all the sudden it's sacred geometry.

I'm laughing my ass off.

Sacred Geometry is a word. I doubt a scientist would use the word Sacred Geometry because it doesn't sound scientific!! That doesn't mean, Sacred Geometry, as its understood, wasn't used! About a month ago I read an article about a newly discovered species, and its new latin name. But the species wasn't new, its been known by the indigenous people for thousands of years, and it already had a name! Not that scientists care that they weren't the ones who actually discovered the species.

Science has a need to have its own language, a superior language that all other languages should conform to. People have used the scientific language as a way to class people, if they don't use the scientific language, then they're ignorant! The scientific language has been used to deny any and all resemblance to ancient beliefs. So even though the spiritual understanding of spirit is the same as the scientific understanding of energy, by creating and using its own term science gets to pretend there is no relationship!

While there is a practical benefit for science to create its own terminology for everything, sometimes people forget words are just words, and many different words can mean the same thing. "all the sudden its sacred geometry?" Sacred Geometry is ANCIENT. And it precedes modern day science.

Never heard of symmetry groups, sounds interesting!

Yes yes, science is full of chauvinistic egomaniacs who dedicate their lives to being smart asses and suppressing native cultures. Blah, blah, blah.


Stop doing that, the only one that comes off as holier than thou here is you. I never see you show any respect to the people that frankly know a shitload more than you because of the decades of education and experience they've acquired in their lifetimes. But of course you know better because you are entwined with the universe .

Here's one of the most famous physicists of the twentieth century talking about names:

http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=05WS0W...eature=related

[edit] Your entire discussion of "sacred geometry" and every discussion that I've ever seen fails to rise above the level of "knowing the name of something" to reference the last sentence of the linked video.[/edit]

Here's the thing about the scientific name of an organism. I can look at the full modern scientific name of any two organisms and know what their common ancestor is. I can look at the full scientific name of an organism and tell you all sorts of things about it. This is because the names that biologists choose mean something.

As for your "sacred geometry" is just a name argument, I can only laugh at it. What does it mean? As near as I can determine, it means nothing other than that subset of real geometry which has pretty pictures associated with it and is easy to understand.

Real math is hard. Real math is very hard. If real math doesn't make you feel slow and stupid then just wait until the subject that builds on what you're learning now.

For you to say that the "spiritual understanding of spirit" is the same as the scientific understanding of energy shows how ignorant you really are about this stuff.

I have a ball that weighs 2 kilograms. I throw it up in the air at an initial velocity of 2 meters per second. Please use your "spiritual understanding of spirit" to tell me how much kinetic energy it has at its highest point.

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

7 notes

7 notes in a diatonic scale, however there are 12 notes of the chromatic scale. It's worth noting that an octave is defined as a frequency ratio of 2:1, which could be divided into any arbitrary number of intervals. There isn't much reason to single out diatonic scales outside of that humans tend to like them. Yet pentatonic scales are also highly popular and have been for a very long time. Also, you do not get a major scale by playing up the harmonics on a guitar string as Dannon mentions. Really the only harmonics that sound good are the ones that relate to the perfect fifth, perfect fourth and octave.

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

7 planets (if you use geocentrism)

Or two, if you just don't feel like counting very many of them.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

suppressing native cultures.

You're right, I do believe native cultures are being suppressed!! I'm that crazy. Mayan indigenous tribes are fighting for more legal rights. A tribal culture somewhere in South America is being exterminated by foreigners who just want their natural resources (its been called the true Avatar story). And I think its anthropology speaking an insult to say a new species has been discovered, when a indigenous people already knew about it. And I also think any anthropologist would agree!

Stop doing that, the only one that comes off as holier than thou here is you.

Or maybe I just have a twisted evil agenda to rule the world

I never see you show any respect to the people that frankly know a shitload more than you because of the decades of education and experience they've acquired in their lifetimes.

I don't know about you, but I certainly can't keep track of every post any individual has made on this forum. So I don't really believe that you've read every post I've made. I have no idea how my computer works, and I couldn't fix my toaster if it broke! I think about this a lot actually, and I think science is awesome. And if you want to know, the field I love the most is biology, especially plant biology.

Scores of times on this very forum I've said that I'm not a scientist, and I'm not going to argue with a scientist when he says A = B. There is not a single scientific understanding that I am against. Or that I will argue against.

But here is my problem when I come to this forum. Now and then I'll read something, about some discovery a scientist, decorated scientist, phd, working at the university level. This scientist will make some sort of discovery that revolutionizes how we think about ourselves. I try to reference this type of scientist on this forum. But because this scientists idea didn't adhere to the concepts of other members, I get told he's a pseudo-scientist, his work isn't real and that I'm an idiot for even listening to him.

At that point I have to make choice, listen to some random forum member who for all I know, could just be some angry emo 16 year old who has nothing better to do than attack people with differing beliefs, or listen to the scientist with the phd. The least I could do is at least consider that the phd scientist is right. Because, I have said this before, I'm not position to argue against the scientist!

And yes I'm entwined with the Universe! Aren't we all? I mean, we are the Universe right? (no I am not being sarcastic)

Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned

I have a ball that weighs 2 kilograms. I throw it up in the air at an initial velocity of 2 meters per second. Please use your "spiritual understanding of spirit" to tell me how much kinetic energy it has at its highest point.

Originally Posted by juroara

You're right, I do believe native cultures are being suppressed!! I'm that crazy. Mayan indigenous tribes are fighting for more legal rights. A tribal culture somewhere in South America is being exterminated by foreigners who just want their natural resources (its been called the true Avatar story). And I think its anthropology speaking an insult to say a new species has been discovered, when a indigenous people already knew about it. And I also think any anthropologist would agree!

Anthropologists are an example of scientists that work very hard to learn about and preserve native cultures. Some natives might have already known about this species, but they can't study it, they can't catalogue it, etc. Scientists simply gave it some fancy latin name and determined its taxonomy. Is that so bad?

Or maybe I just have a twisted evil agenda to rule the world

No, you just come off as the type of person that you criticize. It's extremely hypocritical.

I don't know about you, but I certainly can't keep track of every post any individual has made on this forum. So I don't really believe that you've read every post I've made. I have no idea how my computer works, and I couldn't fix my toaster if it broke! I think about this a lot actually, and I think science is awesome. And if you want to know, the field I love the most is biology, especially plant biology.

Scores of times on this very forum I've said that I'm not a scientist, and I'm not going to argue with a scientist when he says A = B. There is not a single scientific understanding that I am against. Or that I will argue against.

But here is my problem when I come to this forum. Now and then I'll read something, about some discovery a scientist, decorated scientist, phd, working at the university level. This scientist will make some sort of discovery that revolutionizes how we think about ourselves. I try to reference this type of scientist on this forum. But because this scientists idea didn't adhere to the concepts of other members, I get told he's a pseudo-scientist, his work isn't real and that I'm an idiot for even listening to him.

At that point I have to make choice, listen to some random forum member who for all I know, could just be some angry emo 16 year old who has nothing better to do than attack people with differing beliefs, or listen to the scientist with the phd. The least I could do is at least consider that the phd scientist is right. Because, I have said this before, I'm not position to argue against the scientist!

And yes I'm entwined with the Universe! Aren't we all? I mean, we are the Universe right? (no I am not being sarcastic)

I never claimed to have read every post you made, only that the ones I've seen have been very negative towards established science. When dealing with "non-standard" scientific claims and pseudoscience, it's extremely important to question the authenticity of any single researcher. There are plenty of bogus PHDs and "institutes" floating around. It's not the PHD of the "scientist" making the claim that's important, but the PHDs of those backing up the researcher's findings. That's what's called peer reviewing and is the reason why established science is so reliable. One scientist might be crazy, but if one hundred come to the same conclusion, then you know you're on to something. How many people back up the claims you have seen? Without mentioning a specific event, I can't comment any further.

Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned

Here's one of the most famous physicists of the twentieth century talking about names:

http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=05WS0W...eature=related

[edit] Your entire discussion of "sacred geometry" and every discussion that I've ever seen fails to rise above the level of "knowing the name of something" to reference the last sentence of the linked video.[/edit]

I tried to explain this with my first post. But I can't really explain it unless you're willing to grab a compass and start drawing. The reason why I keep saying all of these geometries derive from Sacred Geometry, is because Sacred Geometry has a very specific pattern on how its created. In other words, there's a lineage. You have to draw by hand the Flower of Life before you can draw the Fruit of the Life. And only after you've drawn the Fruit of Life can you then draw Metraton's cube and find the platonic solids. At some point the pattern becomes explosive, and the order doesn't matter so much because you can now find an infinite amount of patterns.

Here's the thing about the scientific name of an organism.

Trust me, I know. I have to learn many names for my horticulture class, and we studied the importance of the name and why horticulture names have two names. And I admitted, that there is a genuine practical purpose for the naming convention. But it sounded like to me that you were complaining that "all of a sudden its being called Sacred Geometry". For all I know scientists have already theorized something just like Sacred Geometry, that is a unified geometry that encompasses everything. The point I was trying to make was, just because scientists come up with their own name for something isn't a good enough reason to toss away the knowledge given from us by the ancients. For all we know, the two are one.

As for your "sacred geometry" is just a name argument, I can only laugh at it. What does it mean? As near as I can determine, it means nothing other than that subset of real geometry which has pretty pictures associated with it and is easy to understand.

I hoped by now I made the point clear. Sacred Geometry is named sacred because it is a describing a unified geometry, a geometry where all geometries are related, a holographic, fractal geometry. When I learned about geometry in school, there wasn't any real connection between one geometric form and the next. In Sacred Geometry EVERYTHING is connected.

Real math is hard.

Yes! That's why its so hard to talk about Sacred Geometry. Its still GEOMETRY. It doesn't magically work different than any other geometry in class. The Sacred Geometry book I read was a huge headache. It wanted me to find this angle, divide that by this, multiply it by that. Headache. So I cheated, and just read what all the math was finding! Oh this shape represents this sound in music! I'm perfectly happy with someone who really likes math doing the hard work with the left brain approach of Sacred Geometry.

I have a ball that weighs 2 kilograms. I throw it up in the air at an initial velocity of 2 meters per second. Please use your "spiritual understanding of spirit" to tell me how much kinetic energy it has at its highest point.

You're right, science has studied energy extensively, most especially in the world around us. Where as spiritual traditions spent more time studying the mind. But what I was trying to say, in spiritual traditions spirit is an invisible force, an indestructible force, a creative force, and a force that moves and animates everything. Imagine an alternate reality where the term energy was never created, your question might sound like:

"tell me how much kinetic spirit it has at its highest point?"

How different we would be as a culture if science and spirituality wasn't separate? We would understand Sacred Geometry better

Originally Posted by juroara

Trust me, I know. I have to learn many names for my horticulture class, and we studied the importance of the name and why horticulture names have two names.

To get the benefits that I was describing, we need to know the full name of it, not just the binomial name. This will normally be around 20 names if the modern taxonomists have gotten around to reclassifying the organism.

And I admitted, that there is a genuine practical purpose for the naming convention. But it sounded like to me that you were complaining that "all of a sudden its being called Sacred Geometry". For all I know scientists have already theorized something just like Sacred Geometry, that is a unified geometry that encompasses everything.

Mathematicians pretty much have: It's the theory of groups which is algebraic. It's difficult to say anything about anything with geometry. The real understanding comes from algebra. In the case of E8, it has structure as a 248 dimensional group and an additional structure as a differentiable manifold. So it's describing continuous symmetries. A square only has discrete symmetries because it can only be reflected around 4 axes and rotated by 4 angles. A circle as continuous symmetries because it can be reflected about any axes and rotated about any angle.

[edit]
So the symmetry group of a square has 8 elements in it and the symmetry group of a circle has an infinite amount of elements. In fact, you can't even put the symmetries in one to one correspondence with the integers because it's a "larger" infinity. There are as many symmetries of a circle as there are real numbers. But you can break the symmetry of a circle by marking it. If you mark it off into quarters, then the only symmetries that haven't been broken are the same symmetries as a square.

It's pretty cool stuff.
[/edit]

The point I was trying to make was, just because scientists come up with their own name for something isn't a good enough reason to toss away the knowledge given from us by the ancients. For all we know, the two are one.

The knowledge of the ancients hasn't been tossed away at all in mathematics. It has been built on, abstracted and developed into the modern theory of mathematics.

I hoped by now I made the point clear. Sacred Geometry is named sacred because it is a describing a unified geometry, a geometry where all geometries are related, a holographic, fractal geometry. When I learned about geometry in school, there wasn't any real connection between one geometric form and the next. In Sacred Geometry EVERYTHING is connected.

I know that you think you learned geometry in high school but I promise you that you didn't. You can't start studying real geometry until you've had linear algebra. And I promise you that if you take that, they'll butcher it as well. It's really a travesty actually. Math is cool right from the get-go. Math classes don't get cool until the first classes in abstract algebra where groups start to get discussed, and analysis where calculus actually gets proven.

Yes! That's why its so hard to talk about Sacred Geometry. Its still GEOMETRY. It doesn't magically work different than any other geometry in class. The Sacred Geometry book I read was a huge headache. It wanted me to find this angle, divide that by this, multiply it by that. Headache. So I cheated, and just read what all the math was finding! Oh this shape represents this sound in music! I'm perfectly happy with someone who really likes math doing the hard work with the left brain approach of Sacred Geometry.

You should post a problem. I would like to see the connection that they're proposing between a shape and a sound. Also, math is not a spectator sport. You will never learn it if you don't work it. Please don't tell me that they use degrees in your book. Did you look at my radian thread? Other people explained it much better than me but the radian is the sacred unit of angular measure that is given to us by the geometry itself. I expect that anybody that doesn't know that is just trying to take advantage of the word "sacred" to sell a book.

You're right, science has studied energy extensively, most especially in the world around us. Where as spiritual traditions spent more time studying the mind. But what I was trying to say, in spiritual traditions spirit is an invisible force, an indestructible force, a creative force, and a force that moves and animates everything. Imagine an alternate reality where the term energy was never created, your question might sound like:

"tell me how much kinetic spirit it has at its highest point?"

How different we would be as a culture if science and spirituality wasn't separate? We would understand Sacred Geometry better

Honestly, science and spirituality should be separate. Any attempt to mix the two leads to confusion. Look at the creationists. They are taking what is supposed to be a spiritual teaching about human life, human mind and human spirit and trying to apply it to the physical world. That doesn't work. If sacred geometry is really the same as regular geometry, then I assure you that we understand it better than you can imagine although there are still a lot of open problems.

Just remember: red is red, blue is blue, etc. Attempting to apply spirituality to physics is like attempting to apply physics to spirituality. Bad things will happen.

EDIT:

Oh and for what it's worth, the ball has zero kinetic energy at it's highest point because it's not moving. Kinetic energy is just mass times velocity squared over two. I tossed you a super easy one to highlight how ridiculous the claim that spirit = physical energy actually is

Originally Posted by juroara

It's a ratio or a proportion between two things. What makes it important is how prevalent it is in nature, to the formation of life, right down to the quantum level. What makes it important is that it isn't random. The numerical translation may look random, which is why geometry - the pure language of the universe - is important. Because the geometrical form of the golden ratio is a spiral. A very ordered self-repeating pattern. But its only one example of what you can derive from Sacred Geometry.

Yep, you failed to provide a definition for this simple concept, and said several things which are wrong (it has a finite non-geometrical form, and it has no more a 'geometrical form of a spiral' than any other number). You use the term 'golden ratio' over and over but have no idea what it actually is. Hopefully this illustrates the rest of the content of your posts: meaningless patterns of words and meaningless pictures.

The geometry by which life uses to organize itself (DNA!!), harmonics, frequencies, states of consciousness, the structure of minerals, crystals and atoms, and thanks to that Ted video, the relationship between particles which might be a shape itself as suggested at the ending.

Can I have some evidence please, not just assertions.

Well, I see that the materialists have taken over the chakra thread again since I've been gone for a day or maybe two. Sacred Geometry is about meaning, it is not about science. I repeat, it is about meaning. Xei, I have already explained to you the golden ration last year when I was talking about sacred geometry and you challenged me the same thing. I challenge you to name one thing in nature that does NOT conform to the golden ration. That should be easy. And predict what happens when you put sodium in water using Astronomy.

You guys get so mad when people find meaning where you find none. Knock it off.

Here is an example of the golden ratio found in a star, thus confirming the meaning of five being perfection:


Now here is the golden spiral found using that ratio:




But since we are talking about chakras we should be concerned with the number 7 and the harmonics of waveforms, not 5 and the golden ratio.



In this picture we see the seven visible planets (to the naked eye). Of course, let me clarify for the scientific chauvinists' sake, the Moon is a satellite, and the sun is a star. Now, if we want to see which chakras can be corresponded to which planet, we will have to find out what that means anyway. Obviously, the Sun corresponds to the Solar Plexus. But I have heard Jupiter.

Edit: See how the seven sided start is uneven? This is important in sacred geometry because it is an approximation. Even with modern technology a circle cannot accurately be split into seven, it will always be an approximation. Isn't this interesting that there are no seven sided crystals? Of course, the reason there are no seven sided crystals has to do with the number of electrons in the outer shell of an atom, and how many can exist in the outer shell but all across the board we see that there is no seven sided symmetry. Seven is not related to matter, but to energy and harmonics and frequencies of spectrums. This is the esoteric meaning of God creating the world in 7 days. It is not literal, it is related to sacred geometry.

Since the Universe was created in 7 days (esoterically speaking) it refers to the seven steps of frequency and chakras, etc.

Originally Posted by ♥Mark

Also, you do not get a major scale by playing up the harmonics on a guitar string as Dannon mentions. Really the only harmonics that sound good are the ones that relate to the perfect fifth, perfect fourth and octave.

Yes you do. I am a musician and I play guitar, bass, oud, sitar, fiddle, mandolin, etc. All string instruments, some with frets and some without frets. I don't use an electronic tuner, because I learned to tune using harmonics and beat frequencies before there was such a thing as an electronic tuner. I also play flute. In flute, the only way to get some notes is to use the higher "register" which is means blowing harder to get the higher harmonics, etc...

Really the only harmonics that sound good are the ones that relate to the perfect fifth, perfect fourth and octave.

This is because they are harder to make, and they are quieter, but that doesn't mean that they are not there, and that they don't follow the harmonic progression. People practice playing harmonics so that they get better at them and they sound good. Eddie Van Halen is very good at it. But to be correct, you do not get the 4th in the harmonic progression. But the 4th is inferred by this: The relationship to the octave to the fifth is the relation of the first to the fourth. Now maybe what you mean by "sound good" means tempered scale. This is a good point, that the natural scale is not tempered, which means it cannot be transposed into another key and played in the original key. To people who have grown up without listening to the artificial "tempered" scale, that natural scale sounds natural. Birds sing in the natural scale. The scale wan't tempered until relatively recently in music history. If you want to listen to music that sounds good that still uses the untempered scale, listen to classical Turkish music, Arabic music, blues, etc. You will find in blues that they use a note that is in between the minor third and the major third and a note that is in between the perfect 4th and the perfect 5th (The Devil's tone!). Since the natural third doesn't fit into the tempered scale, you will find it hard to accurately tune the 'B' string on a guitar, it will always be an approximation, and this becomes more problematic when you amplify it and add distortion. There is too much beat frequency.That is why Eddie Van Halen tuned his B string to a natural third related to the G.

Imagine trying to explain music theory to the skeptics! There IS meaning found in mathematics!!! Good thing it is not called "Sacred Sound", even though, music relates to sound as sacred geometry relates to geometry. It is the meaning that separates them. Now, I don't think that anyone finds music meaningless. But most people do not understand the theory it takes to make music, but they still enjoy listening to it. But there is a definite theory to it, and there has always been and there always will be, no matter what kind of music it is. In fact, it is not possible to ignore music theory once you understand it, it is only possible to be ignorant of it. It is the same with sacred geometry. What you call "pretty pictures" are came up with specific order of understandings the same way that "pretty music" is made using a specific understanding. Music theory is not science, but it is mathematical. Sacred Geometry is not science, but it is geometrical. If music was instead called Sacred Sound we would have to be defending how we find meaning in music and atheists would be saying that music is just noise. Atheists have a problem with the word "sacred' because it implies everything that an atheist is against. And they react to it out of habit. They find the word distasteful. But it just means that there is meaning in whatever it is talking about. Music theory is not a pseudoscience. Sacred Geometry is not a pseudoscience either.

I could go on forever about music and sacred geometry. But I try to restrain myself. I just want to say that the reason that different vowel sounds sound different is because of the harmonics that are isolated using different vowel sounds. If you could amplify the harmonics and mute the fundamental tone, you would find that words are musical. The Tuvan and Mongolian throat singers have mastered this. Now, using the sacred geometry as found in music, and also the fact that words are musical phrases, we can find the meaning and the method of mantras. If you can chant a mantra and hear its musical overtone, in meditation you will also see the geometrical shape the resonance creates, along with the subjective meaning. Vibration and geometry! The music of the spheres, the planets, the mantras of each chakra. There is a lot to it. Look up rice resonance on youtube to see how sound and geometry are related.

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

Xei, I have already explained to you the golden ration last year when I was talking about sacred geometry and you challenged me the same thing.

Yet you can't spell it? And you'll note that when I asked you last year you failed then, too. None of the things you posted then and none of what you posted now defines the golden ratio any more than 'paper' and 'door' define rectangle. Seriously, after all this time, after days of reading about this stuff, why has it been so beyond you to spend just five minutes on Wikipedia so you know what you're talking about??

I challenge you to name one thing in nature that does NOT conform to the golden ration. That should be easy.

Okay errr water molecules. The sun. The moon. Why are you asking this? It contradicts what you just said about Sacred Geometry not being science.

And predict what happens when you put sodium in water using Astronomy.

You're failing at rational argument. I never claimed astronomy had a monopoly on prediction. Juroara did and that's who my post was directed at. How come you didn't notice that the person you were at odds here was not me but Juroara? Perhaps it's because you're intolerant of people who question you but tolerant of anybody who ostensibly agrees with you when their view is actually totally different.

You guys get so mad when people find meaning where you find none. Knock it off.

You should know that this comes across to me as both hypocritical and whiny.

You really think saying '5 is perfect' gives you some kind of moral or spiritual high ground over us nihilistic rationalists with dead souls? Of course, anybody who doesn't make up nonsense and approaches things critically must have a totally empty life.

Sure I think there is meaning. I think kindness is good. I think sunsets are beautiful. I think your life is a journey and you should try to make a lasting positive difference in the world.

But no, if five is perfect then you've really got meaning nailed down, haven't you; you'll own five cars, marry five women and with each of them have five children who smoke five cigarettes a day and your life will be totally perfect.

This is the thing. '5 is perfect' is utterly devoid of meaning. Seriously, can you even explain what you mean by it? The reasons for it? Why it isn't 6 or 7? How you can use it?