Thread: Tlalocs Workbook

Actually I was repairing the deck at our house today and came across a piece of Roman pottery in the garden - small sherd of plain undecorated red ware. We live now in the outskirts of what was a Roman legionary fortress back in the day in the UK so this stuff can get mixed up in the soil fill. I walk most days past the partially exposed ruins of the amphitheatre on my way to work which is pretty cool

That must be so exciting! I love stuff that's from the past.

The amphitheatre challenge sounds cool but complex!!! Did you manage to give it a go????

Not quite. I managed to fly over a city that looked like Rome in ancient times, there was a colosseum, but then I got distracted it turned into a toy-like replica in a room. So, not much done there, but I still think it will be cool to tour around ancient Rome sometime!

Great idea for your next ld. Water's a very versatile dream element and you can have lots of fun playing with it. You also can try plunging in smaller bodies of water as portals to the ocean. Enjoy!

(just realised this is exactly 1 month since I joined DV and started my journal! Cool! In that period I've had some really good advice from people and gotten lucid 8 more times - avg 2x week which I'm really stoked with! Thanks everyone!!!)

VIBE NITE 18 +19 AND LUCID #28

Vibe nite 18 (2 nights ago) - not much to report - no lucids - think I'd had too much to drink - I did the wbtb but didn't get alert enough I think. Plus I'd been repairing our deck so was pretty tired from that.

Vibe nite 19 (last night) - had been out for my father in laws 70th more (sigh) drinking - but earlier on, and an earlier night to bed, but woken up by our daughter (her night light had malfunctioned!) and so reset my wbtb. Did the wbtb at 4.10 with a better vMILD (getting excited about it) and at around 5.20am was dreaming about living the life of a gunslinger and being in a gun fight - this went of for some time, and I ended up in the amorous embrace () of an unknown lady (we'd been to see 'The Wolf of Wall Street' 2 nights earlier and I think this was the influence). Anyways whilst in this 'embrace' I realised 'this can't be real!' and became lucid! I then kind of didn't know what to do, I suddenly realised that all this that was 'going on' was false memory and felt alittle guilty and also realised it would be hard to stabilize in my position (hand rubbing or spinning didn't seem appropriate!), nor did I see how I could just leave my current situation and fly off and find water (ps the portal idea seems cool NyxCC!) - so the dream just died and faded through my stalling!

Anyways....

Tonight the plan was to have a sober night and really try to get the vibe incorporated into the dream - this relies on the luck that its going to hit an REM interval - but also my level of awareness and motivation and depth of sleep - all of which are negatively effected by too much booze (one-2 glasses of wine seems ok but more is less helpful) - on the other side of the coin - I'm off work at the moment and its nice to relax with the wife.

Anyways I wanted to put down my stats for how well the vibenites have been working before the data gets more skewed, so I'm off to get some wine and cheese and olives and if I get the chance I'll fire off another post shortly.

EARLY RESULTS, THE STATS - 19 vibe nites - 53% lucidity, 37% direct incorporation of the vibration into a dream

Basically I have now done 19 vibe nites - on 10 of these I got lucid so thats a rate of 53%. 7 times of those 19 nights the vibration was directly incorporated as a vibration (37%), and of those 7 times I got lucid 5 times (26% of the total vibe nites).

On the other 2 of those vibe nites I had the vibration directly incorporated into the dream as a vibration but didn't get lucid (in 1 I did a crappy rushed r/c, in the other the dream swept me along so I meant to do a r/c but forgot to do it).

Of the 10 lucids on the 19 vibe nites not all were due to direct incorporation of a viberation into the dream - 5 weren't so I would describe this as a 'vibration assisted' rather than 'vibration induced' method.

Finally on another 2 nights I had lucid dreams which were initiated by me perceiving a vibration but which were not vibe nites - in that I wasn't wearing the vibrating invisible clock. In one of these I had a vibrating pins and needles in my leg in real life - which transferred to the dream as a vibration - in fact this is THE DREAM that got me going on trying to induce LD's through external vibrations. The other was from NZ where we were staying in a farmers cottage with some friends and the unfamiliar buzz of the refrigarator got incorporated into my dream as a buzz I though might be from the invisible clock and got me lucid - even though I wasn't wearing it.

So in summary again I've had 10 lucids on the 19 vibe nites + 2 other vibration associated LD's + some close misses within those 19 vibenites and also a fair load of FA's associated with manipulating the clock which I haven't capitalised on yet.

Anyways better to record some of this before I forget, as its useful for me to remember where I"m at and to motivate me for the future! Off to drink some red wine and watch some telly - Happy Dreaming!

Great results so far, Thaloc! It's really good that you have been keeping stats like above, very useful and motivating! Good catch with the unknown embrace too!

been busy recently posting on this thread - http://www.dreamviews.com/lucid-aids...ml#post2085278
really interesting discussion - I am really enjoying being a part of the DV community - so thanks NyxCC and everyone else!

Maybe I should get back to some dreaming soon!

Vibe Nites 20 + 21 and Lucid 29 and an interesting FA

Vibe Nite 20 - no lucids but some interesting dreams- I am guessing I didn't hit any REM periods with the vibe- think I was overtired as I'd been drinking a bit the night before which I don't think helped at all.

Took a good night off

Vibe Nite 21 and lucid 29 and an interesting FA - lots of odd dreams, in the morning I was trying to work out the chronology of it all. It reminds me of a Maori myth we have in NZ of Maui dragging up the North Island, I feel like I am pulling the threads of these dreams out of the deepest bits of my memory, pulling, pulling, pulling! I quite enjoy it as its amazing what you can eventually recall.

Anyways it went something like this....pre wbtb I had an odd dream about talking with the guys who were contributing to Zoths thread on the ND2 (see prev link) the dream was odd in that no knowing anyones true face their faces were their avatars....anyway I must have missed my actual wbtb cue as I woke up much later than intended - around 4.40ish am. Did a vMILD and set the IC for a slightly diff pattern, at 21mins it did a 5sec vibe, at 42mins 2 5sec vibes sep by 5secs and at 1 hr a 10 sec vibe before repeating. I managed to get through 5 vibes (ie almost 2 hrs) before I had to get up for work.

Now comes the bits I can't quite remember right. I was very conscious of the first 3 vibes going off (which is a good sign I'm not getting desensitized to the signal), then after that I woke from a very short lucid (not related to a vibe but prob related to the repeated microwakings)....

lucid 29 - very brief, I am standing in an underground carpark and there is a sort of sinster guy on the down ramp facing me, I feel alone and he radiates maliciousness, I suddenly become aware I'm dreaming (due to the anxiety boosting my awareness about the situation) but want to wake up and so do almost immediately. (We had just watched the first 2 episodes of the new House of Cards series 1 so I think the political intrigue got to me!). I think I have a subconscious concern about getting 'trapped' in a lucid dream I don't like, a couple of times I've become lucid I've freaked out that I am in a way alone.....anyway I then dropped back to sleep....

back into a couple of interesting non lucid dreams, but at somepoint I did what I thought was a waking life reality check of my watch. I normally do this after the vibe hits but to be honest I can't remember if this was the reason I was doing it. I did have a dream I was a student again and sharing a room and had woken up but I can't even recall if the reality check was part of this dream or if I was dreaming I was doing it in my own bed at home in real life.....anyways what happened was this......

an interesting FA - I am in a bed, its dark, and for some reason I feel I need to do a R/C (this is prob due to a vibration cue but I can't honestly remember if this is correct), I look at my watch and because its dark in the room I press for the light to come on, it kinda does but its so dim I can hardly read the dial, I squint and thinks its 7 something ( in Real Life it can't be as I get up at 630), I press the light button again and again its so dim (like candlelight) I can't read the dial - I think - damn the batteries must have died, and drift back into sleep.

In the morning I remembered this and checked my watch and the light WORKED JUST FINE dohhh!!! classic missed reality check - electrical equipment not working!!!! Just goes to show even when you think you've got a foolproof R/C (checking the time on my watch and rechecking) your brain can still beat you!!!!

Had last night off so may try another vibe night tonight.

Vibe Nite 21 and lucid 29 and an interesting FA - lots of odd dreams, in the morning I was trying to work out the chronology of it all. It reminds me of a Maori myth we have in NZ of Maui dragging up the North Island, I feel like I am pulling the threads of these dreams out of the deepest bits of my memory, pulling, pulling, pulling! I quite enjoy it as its amazing what you can eventually recall.

Very well said! This is exactly what dream recall feels like to me as well. Sometimes I wake up with almost nothing in my head but a faint emotion. but if you can just grasp that thread and pull just right, you can often pull back a huge, detailed dream memory.

It seems to get better with practice, too. (And falters with disuse.) Before I got into LD, I thought I didn't really dream.

I like the NovaDreamer 2-related dream! That's captured my imagination a bit too lately. I'm surprised I haven't had an ND2 dream of my own!

Great job with your workbook by the way! The Aztec reference in your name is interesting, too. I only know it from a video game.

Hi CanisLucidus - thanks for the reply! Good spotting the Aztec nature of the name (I wasn't sure if many people would recognize it)! I noted the Latin basis of your own - I'm from NZ but have been in the UK for around 5 yrs now - about the best benefit of being here (and it isn't the weather!) is the archaeology. I've done a few seasons of digging up at a Roman fort called Vindolanda - just by Hadrians Wall - its a really atmospheric place. I've always been interested in Mesoamerican cultures as well so I decided that once I hit 20 lucids I'd sign up to dreamviews and in advance I thought I would use the name 'Smoking Mirror' (another Aztec diety) as my nom de plum (it sounded suitably esoteric) - but would you guess it - I'm signing up and put the name in and BAMMM it comes up saying it had already been used!!!! I'm then trying to think - 'what should I use?' so I try a couple of Maori names but the system doesn't like this (!!) and my wife is starting to ask me why I'm spending so long sorting stuff out on the pc - so I panic and go with Tlaloc - the Aztec weather god (and demander of child sacrifices ) so there we are I've become Tlaloc!
Anyways - thanks for the feedback - it would be great to stay in touch - I appreciate all the effort everyone (NyxCC, yourself - and all the others) put in - it really gives me (and I'm sure everyone else) a MASSIVE boost to get some friendly feedback from someone more experienced. Thanks again

vibe nite 22 and some interesting incorporations

Did a vibe nite (22) 3 nights ago. No lucids - but one funny dream involving David Hasselhoff (any dream involving the Hoff is funny!), and a very close wild, and some interesting sleep paralysis (I seemed to become paralysed with a slight grin on my face, unable to shift it till my wife bumped into me and snapped me out of it). The 'almost' WILD involved me going from being awake and trying to WILD (after a microwaking from the vibe) then seeing me reading from a page in my room and being aware this was a dream, I tried to roll my body out of the bed but couldn't quite work out how to do this (I wasn't sure whether I should actually physically try and do this - I was worried I'd fall out of bed and wake my wife! or whether I should just 'imagine' doing it - NyxCC do you have any advice????), I then thought about what NyxCC said about rubbing the floor and my consciousness drifted off thinkng about this-into normal sleep. No obvious incorporations of the vibe, but frustrating I was in a nice stable non lucid dream when my wife SNEEZED really loudly twice and woke me up suddenly, I checked the Invisible clock and it had 90secs to go before it would have vibrated into a very stable REM period - DOHHHH

Still had some luck last night

Last night - some good incorporations and a low level lucid - last night was meant to be a vibe nite but the following happened....I set my vibrating clock on my wrist to go after 5 hrs for the wbtb. I am in a very relaxed dream in a backstage actors room talking to my cousin who I haven't seen in years and having a very detailed (and accurate) catch up about past times and I am really enjoying seeing her again when VIMMMMMMMMMMM I feel the vibrating clock vibrating and hear it also - its LOUD and in the dream I'm scrambling to find it as it keeps going off and I am worried my cousin will hear and wonder what it is - and then its still going and I wake up in my dark bedroom completely disorientated for a second searching for the clock on my ankle (its normal location) before realising its on my wrist and turning it off. This is the first time I've hit an REM period at my wbtb time, I wondered if this might happen at some point through luck and last night it did. Obviously I didn't have time to become lucid - in the dream though I was completely aware this was the invisible clock vibrating and that I had to do a R/C (after quietening it) - so both the incorporation of the signal into the dream from the real world (the vibration) and my conditioning (do a R/C) were spot on. It was just that because it was the wbtb alarm it was too strong (strenght 2) and too long (20 secs) that it woke me up (as its meant to do for the wbtb). Anyway it was cool to get another incorporation but alittle poignant to realise that the really satisfying catch up I'd had with my cousin hadn't happened at all!

After that I set the clock to go off and tried to return to sleep, but my wife was tossing and turning and everytime I was about to drift off she'd bump me and I'd wake up. So I ended up resetting the clock again....and again.....its a bit frustrating as I feel pysched up and pregnant with lucidity but at some point I just drifted off into sleep without resetting it and had the following dream......I'm in a bedroom with my wife when suddenly I feel something in my hair, I look up and theres a wasp buzzing around the room and it keeps going for my head bumping into my hair I duck and weave and can't get away from it.....and then I wake up. I wake up and I've got this twitch in my scalp (in real life) that makes it feel like something is touching my head (tap, tap, tap) - and this twitch is what had been incorporated into the dream. I check the invisible clock (I wondered if the buzzing was it going off - but then realise I hadn't set it at all), I then attempt to go back to sleep but the same thing happens with my wife tossing and turningn so I reset it again but fall asleep without turning it on!

I then have the following very low level lucid dream - I'm in a cafe with my wife, with some of her friends. One of them says she has just returned from NZ and can I check her credit card bill for whilst she was there for mistakes becauses shes unsure about the currency exchange. I take a look at the billing sheet and as you'd expect it has lists for travel stuff (5 pound charge for use overseas etc) but when I try and focus on it its hard to make it stay 'fixed' and I say 'I can't add this up - because I'm dreaming, this is a dream it just won't work' - normally when I become lucid I become HYPER aware (and so often wake up) but this time I am just dull, stay at the table at the cafe, follow the dullish plot and slip back into nonlucidity. I then wake up and realise I haven't set the clock (again!) and so take it away from my ankle as I've only got 30mins before I have to get up for work.

So not a vibe nite in the sense that I only did a wbtb but didn't actually ever switch the thing on properly! But some interesting tactile incorporations (one from the vibe, one from my body) and one low level lucid. The incorporation from the vibe for the wbtb really pleased me - more than the low grade lucid - as it was very vivid and its a bit of a thrill thinking you've sent yourself a message (the vibe) from the real world to yourself in the dream world and it has the desired effect of telling you to do a R/C (and ideally get lucid).

then seeing me reading from a page in my room and being aware this was a dream, I tried to roll my body out of the bed but couldn't quite work out how to do this (I wasn't sure whether I should actually physically try and do this - I was worried I'd fall out of bed and wake my wife! or whether I should just 'imagine' doing it - NyxCC do you have any advice????)

Hmm, were you looking through your own eyes or were you seeing yourself from a third person perspective? If you were already seeing though your own eyes, you might have already been in the dream or at least on your way to being fully there. I know what you mean about being afraid to physically move. When very unsure I would try to first think of the movement to see if that works. You can also try zooming on a specific object or place. With more experience you get somewhat more assurance as to whether you are in the dream or not and then can proceed with moving.

Aww, you success with the vibes has been really good so far! It reminds me to try to play around with the auto-snooze alarm on days when I'm not doing the regular wbtb.

Thanks NyxCC for the advice and feedback!

If you were already seeing though your own eyes, you might have already been in the dream or at least on your way to being fully there.

- I'm pretty sure I was seeing through my own eyes - it was like a flash of being in a dream scene which was hyper realistic of my bedroom (like a lucid FA in my bedroom) but then it went, I guess its hard to know then, because I am still in the bedroom whether it is reality or still the dream - both were identically set up, only in the dream I was reading a piece of paper which was impossible as I was (in reality) lying in bed! Should have done a reality check but hard to do as I felt somewhat paralysed! - Anyway still kinda cool and I guess progress on the way to 'getting' WILDing.

Thinking outloud.... I'm just going to write down some thoughts I've been thinking about vibing....and decided I'm going to take a few nights to try a different, stronger but shorter setting. I'm going to seperate out these from the 'vibe nites' as the stimulus will be a bit different.
I'll call them 'e-nites' (for experimental) until I decide if this is better or worse.

My thinking is this....when I started the vibenites my awareness during and after the wbtb was very high - due to the excitment of starting a new project and also a degree of anxiety I make wake my wife the first few times I tried it. However having done 20 or so without waking my wife the anxiety has worn off, and I find I am more likely to sleep through the vibe than I did previously. Previously the first few vibes would wake me up and then after that they wouldn't.

I had thought this might be due to my awareness dropping as I stay asleep (and this is probably partially true) but I also think this is probably due to me just entering a deeper sleep (I guess the two might go hand in hand). I had also thought this might be due to the repetitive nature of the stimulus causing a desensitization to it - which concerned me.

Then the other night I had the dream where the wbtb signal got incorporated into the dream and then woke me up. What was interesting about this - and got me thinking is that I had had no prior waking to this. In otherwords even though I WAS in a deep sleep with NO wbtb to boost my awareness there was still excellent incorporation of the signal - but it was a higher strenght than normal.

Perhaps this worked because I am so conditioned to the signal that my response to it is almost reflexive (do a R/C - its the invisible clock) and so being higher alert isn't a necessity (desirable - but not a necessity).

So given its hard to massively increase my alertness as I'm unable to get out of bed for fear of waking my partner up, and given I'm probably dropping into a deeper sleep faster now than I did at the start of the vibe nites - it might make sense to increase the signal strength and see what happens. I imagine the first night or two I might just wake up more (not a bad thing) as the 'novelity' of doing it probably will increase my alertness but then after that - who knows - it might be a more effective longer term strenght to use.

NyxCC - I know you've used coffee to help with inducing lucidity - did you find you have stuck to just the same dosage since you started -or have you changed since - I wondered if this might have parallels to what I'm thinking about regarding changing the strength of my vibe. Theres a line I'm trying to seperate between the possibilty of desensitization (which might be a slippery slope) vs a plateauing effect - whereby you need to allow for adjustment of the stimuli strength after a period of adaptation but that after that further desensitization does not occur.

Hope I'm right! fingers crossed, alarms set - GOOOOOO!!!!

vibe night 23/e1 + lucid 31

I am a bit tired as had too much to drink last night so going to try and bang this out asap. Went to bed, missed my wbtb so woke up at just after 5am and set IC at vibe II 2 secs. Then after an hour or so woke up from a dream I'd been on a bus that had just hit something and damaged its wing mirror - upon waking and looked at IC and the vibe should have gone off about 1min before I woke - so poss indirect incorporation (small vibe = shudder as bus hits something) or maybe it just woke me up. I don't specifically remember the bus hitting anything, but me pointing out the wing mirror was broken so we must have....

anyways went back to bed and a while later my daughter woke us up so we got up for an actual wbtb, now around 6.00 so not much time left but I thought - 'still everything to play for' kept thinking about the previous poss incorporation which triggered the following series of events.....

a vibe goes off (either in reallife as a microawakening, or within the dream) and I have a FA that I'm checking the timer to see if it corresponds to when I thought it should have gone off - it doesn't at all - which should make me aware 'THIS IS A DREAM!!' but it doesn't and I drop back to sleep, I then have another FA where I get up out of bed and I'm wearing white ankle socks and the invisible clock is big and clunky and I'm walking out of our bedroom when I notice there are mirrored tiles on the wall - and BANG - I'm immediately aware this is a dream and I'm lucid!!!! - BUT the shock of the false memories shocks me and I wake up....into a FA - I've woken up in bed again but my real bed and the children are there so I read them a bit of the Jungle book.....

.....then my son comes into our room in the REAL world and wakes me up.

So a couple of FA's and a mini-lucid - but even though the lucid was really short and I should be disappointed - I'm actually kind of stoked that I managed to get it in at all given it was so close to my wake up time - I feel like I just managed to steal home base - and even though its REALLY frustrating to wake up so quickly its also REALLY cool to have been lucid again - so I'm guessing all in all not a bad night.

Going to continue with the II strength but increase it to 5secs again to make the cue more recognizable sometime in the next few nights.

I see what you mean about the desensitization to stimuli, also had a look at part of the N2D2 discussion. It certainly makes sense. Still, I think you are probably having two forces at work here and they are opposing each other - desensitization vs expectation/conditioning. I did shortly experiment with sound alarms (auto snooze and also one playing song), but haven't made it to the lucid phase there. It would either wake me up as it was too loud or it would make me so nervous, I would wake up on my own, wondering when the next alarm will be. And then at some point I would go into deeper sleep, missing it altogether. Possibly in the long term there is some desensitization, as you guys have already mentioned in the other thread. But then you also learn how to deal better with the signal, you know to associate this with lucidity, which builds expectations and is also incorporated in dreams. I wouldn't be surprised if you do this for a long time and start having more dreams with the vibe even if you are not having a vibe night.

About caffeine, I mostly keep my daytime dosages low, so maybe this helps me avoid becoming desensitized. In the beginning, I actually took larger doses, but saw this may be having a neg impact on stability as it was preventing me to fall properly into sleep. Now, I'm more into the 30-50 mg range. I don't do it every day either, so that possibly helps.

Congrats on the ld! Those FAs can be very tricky, had a number of them myself today too (no ld though). We lucid dreamers have to be constantly alert and RCing upon waking because these things are such a great opportunity for bonus lds.

NyxCC - I think what you said

Still, I think you are probably having two forces at work here and they are opposing each other - desensitization vs expectation

is absolutely hitting the nail on the head! thanks for this - as it is a really good reminder that I can use expectation to increase the likely hood of picking up the signal. I think this is maybe what I need to focus on more during the wbtb, particularly as the vibe nites become more routine as time goes on.

anyways this is what happened a couple of nights back

vibe nite 24/e2
wbtb at 4.00am (bed at 11pm), short vMILD then set the IC to II strength, 21min intervals 5 secs duration and returned to sleep. The vibe being at the increased strenght repeatidly woke me up - but interesting to try it. It hit at least 2 REM period and cut straight through it - one minute your in dreamland the next I'm awake from the vibe - so again shows its pretty easy to hit an REM period just using an interval timer - but good in that it increased my recall and the vividness of the dream - in that I immediately remembered what had been happening with a clarity almost reserved for lucidity.

Had some interesting dreams but no lucids - interesting narrative story one about the blitz during the second world war - 3rd person coherent story and very vivid with explosions, fire, romance of the characters, and a twist, and a nice one with wifey in it, but the most interesting from the vibe point of view was another very vivid FA

FA - pretty much everytime the stronger vibe went off I woke up but I generally just waited the 5 secs and returned to sleep. At one of the vibes going off I decided I'd tone it down, so reached down pulled the IC off my ankle and reset it for the lower viberation setting and returned to sleep. About 40 mins later the vibe woke me up - and now I think - hold on, if I'm still getting woken up but the vibe it can't be at the lower setting.....and I suddenly click that the last time was a super vivid FA - I do a reality check now (why NOW!!! why not THEN!!!) and its normal (DOH!) and check the clock and it still on vibe II - so yes missed another good FA!

but at least I got some interesting dreaming in - and I guess Ive decided unless I want to try DIELDing I'm better to leave the vibe at strength I, and maybe work on trying to build up my anticipation/expectation during the short wbtb in bed (unfort I can't get up out of bed for fear of waking my wife - but its starting to get lighter in the morns here so this helps increase awareness anyway).

I've decided to try a different pattern of cues tonight as well. Previously I liked using the 5 sec interval on repeat as often when it gets incorporated into a dream it gets distorted so just by 'listening' to the vibe you can tell if you are dreaming or not before even doing a R/C. But I'm wondering if by making the cues different, and slightly irreg spaced intervals it might be easier to get them incorporated - I'm worried the repetivite and predictable nature of the current system means its easier for my brain to tune it out.

Worth a try. Really want to stay lucid for longer next time, I am hoping I am getting closer to turning the corner, but as with everyones lives there are lots of things competing for my attention, I don't want to put LDing on the back burner and some motivating successes would really help to keep me on the straight and narrow

anyways - on with the show...

I was trying external stimuli for a little while but quickly lost interest. It seemed to either wake me up or keep me awake depending on what it was. I tried both binural beats and some apps that give cues during REM periods. I did try my phone in my pocket too set on vibrate but it didn't do anything.

Do you do WBTB and reality checks during the day even if they aren't vibe induced?

Last night was kind of a crappy night! Vibe nite 25/e3 - lucid 32

Went to bed trying to be optimistic about getting lucid - did my usual autosuggestion, and had a tiny lucid before the wbtb (and vibes) went off
lucid 32
I am in a lounge room talking to some friends when suddenly these tiny insect like things appear flying around me and distracting me - I try and swat one and miss but see they are in fact tiny minutarised robots - I think 'this is crazy, nothing like this exists - I'm dreaming' - I become lucid but immediately wake up and then immediately drop back into sleep - so the whole dream is kind of dull in my recollection. It almost felt like I wasn't 'trying' to stay lucid - not sure why - but a bit annoying!

Anyway did the wbtb, tried to get myself more aware but it is hard to do without being able to get out of bed (due to risk of disturbing wife) so slipped off to sleep again. I had set the vibes to go off every 10mins and different durations at vibe I- but didnt get any incorporations, so after waking up again, got REALLY annoyed and set it to vibe II and again zero other than a few wakenings but even then they didn't really wake me up enough to do a WILD or DEILD attempt.

Pretty pissed off in the morning - but started to think about what 501 asked me and about what I am doing....

so heres the thing - I initially did a series of days after I got back from NZ in Jan of wearing the invisible clock (IC) during the day and doing regular R/C's with it. After I got over the initial jet lag I tried the vibe nites on the 14 Jan and got 2 incorporations that night with one lucid. I then continued but (and I checked this in my notes to find the exact day) on the 19th of jan I wrote down 'maybe no daytime use and break from IC for a few days means stimulus more novel and like to increase incorp. Avoids habituation'.

At that point (5 wks ago) I pretty much stopped doing daytime use of the IC. I felt I had become 'conditioned' to the response, and as I put above I was worried that by carrying out lots of vibe related R/C's during the day I would find them less 'novel' and also I was worried that with all the day time ones being 'I'm not dreaming' I might weaken my likelyhood to associate them with lucidity and start rushing them.

But now I think I was wrong. I think the response is NOT one of conditioning but its consciously trained response - I am choosing to do a R/C so everytime I do one after the vibe hits I am reinforcing that association with the stimuli, strengthening it, not weakening it (as long as I do do it consciously and thoughtfully ).

So this is what I am going to go back doing again.

I had just written a whole lot more than this - but the computer froze (twice when trying to insert a smilie :-( and all that was autosaved was the above. I had about 5 bullet points of how I think I've reduced the chances of FA's and how to do a special vibe related R/C but rather than blab about it, I'll just do it and if it works, I'll write it up then.

Sorry the night didn't go as planned, but even a mini-ld's a sign of progress and the practices working.

I was worried that with all the day time ones being 'I'm not dreaming' I might weaken my likelyhood to associate them with lucidity and start rushing them.

But now I think I was wrong. I think the response is NOT one of conditioning but its consciously trained response - I am choosing to do a R/C so everytime I do one after the vibe hits I am reinforcing that association with the stimuli, strengthening it, not weakening it (as long as I do do it consciously and thoughtfully ).

Yes, every time you do a RC, you are strengthening the habit, and increasing the chance of this happening while in the dream. I noticed at some point I would do a lot of critical thinking and talking RCs in real life that would carry over just the way I did them. For example, I would see something strange and say out loud (to my bf who's tired of listening about lding but at least it's a reaffirmation to myself or maybe trying to make him have an ld ). Anyways, I would say "Oh, this looks weird/like a dream, now it's a good time to do an RC" but I don't do one. Then I would have a dream of seeing some dream sign and would say exactly the same - good time to do an RC and then carry on with the dream. So, it's kind of obvious that I had to change this - without looking weird of course.

One of the earliest things I've read around here - in a lot of DILD/RC/DS discussions and tutorials is that you have to take a moment to think that you might be in a dream right now. Don't just say - nah, this can't be a dream and go on, but rather become really excited and incubate that feeling that as you are doing your RC, you are in a dream and you are becoming lucid and so happy about it. Obviously, this is just mental pretending, with no real acting as if it is a dream (to those who might happen to read this and wonder what's this advice).

Sweet dreams!

Something else I have noticed is that if you don't take the RCs during the day serious that will carry over to your dream.

I remember one of the first times this happened to me we had been on the road the whole day and were at a hotel that night. I took some supplements before bed (which I had not taken before). I went to the bathroom and I felt really messed up like I was really drunk, couldn't even walk upright. I did a quick RC at my hand and dropped it before it clicked as to what I was doing. I woke up and thought 'you got me you tricky subconscious'. I have caught it a couple times in my dreams too where I look quickly and realized that something could have been fishy there and look again and sure enough I am dreaming. I have however missed out on a handful of lucids by doing this.

Last night was the first night in a few days I could concentrate again a bit on dreaming. Of interest mostly for a kind of WILD like experience similiar to something I had 2 weeks ago. I woke in the night and so set my intention to be aware of my dreams and my body drifted back into sleep with my eyes closed and I focused on being able to see my arms in my bed, and after a uncertain amount of time but I think could only be a minute or two or even less I could see my arm with my watch on quite clearly resting on my bed in our room. It was very clear, but the watch was slightly wrong, I was aware this was a dream and wondered if I should do a reality check but didn't as a) I knew this was a dream 2) I was worried about losing my train of thought. I tried moving my arm but couldn't. I then had tried to move out of the bed - but couldn't. After a bit I just lost concentration and slipped into full sleep.

I'm not really counting this is a lucid dream as its different from my normal ones, but maybe thats because I mostly have DILD's. Plus I couldn't really do anything. It was like a I could see everything but not move anything, and its an odd perspective because I am dreaming about the same location my physical body is located - my bedroom - even though some details are incorrect - eg my watch, and also the fact it is in lightish in the room in the dream when in fact its pitch black nighttime in reality. Its kind of enjoyable though as it is almost like the feeling I am seeing through my closed eyelids - which is an odd description but is the best way to describe it, I am lying in my dark bedroom but can see quite clearly the dream version of it.

I think it must be because I wanted to see my arms in my bed it ended up like this.
Anyways....something to think about

That's the beginning of an ld for sure. Great progress, even short practice counts.

and its an odd perspective because I am dreaming about the same location my physical body is located - my bedroom - even though some details are incorrect - eg my watch, and also the fact it is in lightish in the room in the dream when in fact its pitch black nighttime in reality. Its kind of enjoyable though as it is almost like the feeling I am seeing through my closed eyelids - which is an odd description but is the best way to describe it, I am lying in my dark bedroom but can see quite clearly the dream version of it.

I know quite well what you mean, this has happened to me when wilding or going for my from scratch lds (where I basically don't care if I catch the transition or not). It also sometimes happens involuntarily while I'm falling asleep. For me the clue that I'm seeing through my eyelids type of dream impression is that it's dark and the objects slowly come into focus but entire scene is initially in monochrome red. A bit later I may transition into a different scene altogether and it becomes normally colored (if daytime).

Thanks NyxCC! As this has happened a couple of times I might try and actively seek it out a bit more. I have this plan that if I have a LD set in the bedroom, I'd like to go to the curtains and open them wide and look out. In the UK the bedrooms are on the second floor, and rather than looking out of the 'green', I'm hoping I might see a totally different image - a bright cityscape glowing in the night sky. Anyways thats the plan if I can get past the paralysis and keep it together long enough!

Had a couple of interesting short dreamlets last night. I have done any vibe nites for a while, but I have been doing the training during the day. And last night I had two dreams that the invisible clock was going off on my wrist (where I normally put it for my wbtb alarm). Both resulted in me immediately waking up. It was interesting because even though I haven't being doing the vibe nights perhaps the daytime practice is still incorporating the ritual into my dreams.

Been a bit of a stressful week, another dream saw me looking in the mirror and seeing all my hair had become silver grey - self pity no doubt! Another saw me arranging pictures of NZ into a frame, I probably won't be able to visit home for another few years (it was 3 years between the last visits) - which often makes me homesick, again interesting to see how the day residue incorporates itself into the dreams.

I am aiming to try a few more vibenites soon. I think I am going to have to try and install some more awareness into the process, I've drawn up a series of 'experimental' conditions to try and achieve this given the limits that I can't get up out of bed due to the risk of disturbing my wife, so I've got a bit of work to do. All the studies done with vibration as a cue (ie LaBerge and Hearne) were very short term 1-2 nights. I've made it work in that context, but its getting it continue to work which is an area no research has been done on. But its a nut I think is worth trying to crack.

Have a good weekend NyxCC!

In the UK the bedrooms are on the second floor, and rather than looking out of the 'green', I'm hoping I might see a totally different image - a bright cityscape glowing in the night sky

That's a great plan. Sometimes the outside world would look different when I try to leave through the window or it may change to some unknown place later on when I go down and start exploring.

I haven't being doing the vibe nights perhaps the daytime practice is still incorporating the ritual into my dreams

That's fantastic, it seems like it really is!

Good luck with your new experiments and a nice rest of the weekend!

Tried a vibe nite last night for the first time in a while. Missed the expected wbtb so had a delayed one, and lengthned my viberation length. The late wbtb meant I only had about 1 hr 20mins of sleep to play with before the alarm woke me up.

Got close to one incorporation but the vibe went on for too long and kind of dragged me out of the dream.

However the more interesting event was a dream I had inbetween vibes just before awakening for the day. I dreamt I was driving my uncle in a car up the street - there were plenty of missed dreamsigns in this (I haven't my uncle in the flesh for 10 yrs, the driving was difficult). He told me to pull into to a parking space, and I felt massively relieved to get there and turn the engine off given I was having such a stressful time keeping the car straight and not smashing into anything. My uncle said I could take a nap, so I laid my head against the drivers window and closed my eyes, and at this point I realised I was dreaming as I realised my head was lying against my pillow in a funny positon (the pillow being scrunched up and pushing my head up). It was a very vivid and odd sensation - I had gone and closed my eyes in the car resting my head on the window and now in the same position as in the dream I was aware I wasn't actually in the car but in my bed, but still with my eyes closed! I kept the closed and tried to DIELD imagining I was still in the car and I would open them to see the inside of the car - but couldn't make it happen.

Perhaps I was at the end of the REM period, whatever - whilst it was non-lucid the junction between the dreamed reality and the actual reality seemed absolutely paper thin and incredibly vivid - I nice experience just before the alarm went off.

This supports what I've been thinking about over the last few days about how to better do the vibe nites, so I'm going to continue to experiment, trying slightly later wbtb's to naturally increase my awareness, along with trying to activate my natural 'fear' of waking the wife to the same end!

my gut feeling is that awareness is a big part not of just recognizing the vibration as a dream sign but is also key to getting it incorporated into the dream in the first place, which is not something I had thought about initially. I realise that by delaying my wbtb I will have less dreaming time left, and any lucidity will probably be less stable, but the idea of being able to increase the likelyhood of an incorporation is quite attractive, and if this fails perhaps the chance of just a normal lucid - kind of like what almost happened this morning (but obviously this morning wasn't actually lucid) might be increased anyway.

worth trying out anyway, I would love for this to work! and I have a gut feeling it just might....but I don't want to jinx it

I did a later wbtb last night, bit of a disturbed night with my daughter being ill. Didn't get to bed till 11.30, set the silent alarm for 6hrs rather than my normal 5 and it went off cutting straight though a dream I was having about surfing in NZ. Interestingly this time it just woke me up as it was much later in the morning than the one a week ago which got partially incorporated into the dream. But again shows how with a bit of luck you can hit the REM periods with an alarm. So I did a bit of the usual preps at 5.30am and tried to return to sleep. But then my wife got up because my daughter was disturbed, the birds were singing outside, I started to go into a relaxed calm and thought about WILDing but decided against trying as I worried it would result in me not getting to sleep before the alarm went off to wake up.

Anyways I did manage to get to sleep, and had a dream I was at a do with the kids, what was interesting was that in the dream I was asked to come inside to help my daughter who was stuck behind a chair, as I did this, the adult in my house she was with looked up and I was suprised to see it was the archaeologist I'd worked with for a couple of years down the road. I was a bit shocked as I thought 'I'm going to have to explain why I haven't turned up at the dig for the last 18mths!' and this shock and suprise woke me up. A couple of mins later the vibe went off (whilst I was still awake), then my daughter came in and we all got up.

So no lucids and no vibes, but this DID make me think I am on the right track again doing a later wbtb.

My awareness was definitely higher, I was very close to coming lucid. Obviously the higher awareness meant I woke up out of the dream, something I rarely do unless I have become lucid. But I think there is a better chance the vibes may get more incorporated this way, and if I can get vibes into the dream regularly then I think I am much closer to being sorted - largely because the vibe itself won't suprise me, it should just prompt me to do a R/C, if I train myself to do this in a calm way then the realisation of lucidity could be a calm one rather than a suprise. The key is getting the vibe incorporated in the first place on a regular basis.

This kind of reminds me of learning to surf. You can hang out, out back waiting ages for the perfect wave and still muck it up through lack of practice, or you can enjoy lots of smaller rides in the white water runs (broken waves) which are easier to catch but less epic.

I think I'm opting to try and do the white water thing - as what I need is the confidence and fun that might give me. Its worth a hope and a prayer! (I just popped that in to be able to use this cheesey icon!)