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    Thread: Tlalocs Workbook

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      Tlalocs Workbook

      So....I joined DV earlier today and wanted to get cracking with this! This is my, Tlalocs, workbook. I've been thinking about joining DV's since I came across the site 6 months ago it seems like such a good forum and community offering support and advice - I'm really looking forward to being part of it!

      Anyway...to the chase!

      REALITY CHECKS
      -I started wearing a watch again 1 month ago so this is my main RC at the moment.
      -text based checks would be my second one
      -followed by looking at my hands - I used to have this higher up the list till I blew a LD when I looked at my hands and the fact they looked totally abnormal shocked me into waking up almost immediately after becoming lucid!

      DREAM SIGNS
      -the key DS I am working on at the moment is external vibration as a cue to myself to RC
      -other common DS's include memory loss, odd architectural forms or settings, people I know behaving oddly, being overly anxious, maps being incorrect, odd or tasteless food, malfunctioning equipment and incorrect things associated with my workplace - basically anything weird
      -whilst theres quite alot of these types of dreamsigns - none of them occurred really frequently enough over the others for me to really concentrate on, and they don't occur very regularily in real life for me to practice - hence my interest in an external cue - vibration.

      SHORT TERM GOALS
      -stabilize my dream immediately upon becoming lucid. This is the NUMBER ONE frustration for me!!!! In the 20+ times I have become lucid in the last 6 months only 2 of my LD's lasted more than a minute or 2, most end within seconds of becoming lucid.
      -I am also really excited to meet, discuss and hopefully make friends regarding lucid dreaming

      LONG TERM GOALS
      -continue my experimentation inducing LD's in a way that easily fits with my day to day living
      -once I've got the hang of stabilization I guess the skies the limit...but to be fair I'm just focused on trying to sort out the stabilization thing first

      LUCID DREAM RECALL HISTORY
      -I first heard about LDing in the late 1990's through an Aussie programme called 'beyond 2000' (remember this was the 1990's and 2000 seemed the distant future!) and as a teenager saved up and bought myself a novadreamer (this was before the days of the internet so had to have a catalogue posted out to me in NZ from the US!). I never had much success with LDing so got busy and just stopped trying, then last year I read a fictional book that got me kinda interested again and I googled Lucid Dreaming - hoping someone might have cracked the induction process in the intervening 10 or so years and went from there
      -over the last 6 months I have had 20+ Lucid events - so about 1 every 10 days though in practice they don't even out like that, some weeks several, some weeks none, alot to do with whats going on in my life I think in terms of concentration or illness. I call them lucid events 'cause alot are so short I wouldn't really term them dreams - I become lucid, gape, and then often wake up! Nuts!!! I guess in terms of normal dreams I remember bits everynight, and if I'm on a 'vibration' night I'll remember quite a few more

      CURRENT TECHNIQUE
      -use of external vibration to prompt myself to do a RC which results in lucidity. This kindof includes conditioning to the cue during the day (IWL), WBTB at night, a kind of special MILD to remind myself to be aware of the vibration then the external cue.
      -I also use a bit of prompting before I go to bed that I will have a LD

      There we go!!!! I'm not sure what I do from here? Back to the tutorial manual.....

    2. #2
      Member Tlaloc's Avatar
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      So - here goes the workbook! Last night was supposed to be a fallow night but I got too enthusiastic about LD'ing after reading others progress in their workbooks that I decided to 'have a go'.

      Heres what I did. Set ICII (vibrating device) to 4.5 hours for WBTB (vII=vibration level 2 out of 3 intensity). Unfort it didn't wake me but I woke after 5.5hrs anyway from a longish dream fairly well recalled (including d/s that I had 'missing memory' which I didnt pick up on, in this case being unable to remember the pin for my cash card). This late WBTB meant I woke around 4.30am, my wife was getting up at 6 so only gave me 90mins to play with.
      Set the IC to vI (low intensity), on a repeating interval with the first vibe being 2 secs in duration at 20mins, a second 5 sec at 40mins then to repeat until I turned it off (in short hand this looks like this: IC 40min RCD F20 A40). I did a 5 min special kind of MILD and then tried to return to sleep - but it didn't come easily - at least 40-60mins to drift off, and I ended up turning on my opp side to which I normally sleep and shifting the location of the IC as a result.

      So I ended up with only 1 REM period between c.530-6.00am. I recalled this dream pretty fully. Initially on waking I was disappointed that I hadn't had the vibe directly incorporated into the dream and/or become lucid. However on reflection this may not have been the case.

      The dream was set in Kathmandu backstreets, at one point I had left a temple and was walking down the busy bustling back alleys trying to quickly find my camera to photograph someone ahead, all of a sudden there was a great noise and people started to scream and rush to the sides of the alley as a great mob of tok-toks (or cyclo's as their know in nepal if they're peddled) zoomed past toward me, I scattered to the side of an unknown building and the dream continued on from there.

      On reflection it is possible this great noise and rumbling in the dream was my brains incorporation of the vibration. As I had changed position before returning to sleep I had repositioned the IC and this may have meant it was resting directly on the mattress, if so as well as the tactile feel of the vib, the noise is transmitted through the mattress to my ear as a fairly loud rumbling noise and may have lead to the sudden and startling change of direction in the dream when the 'herd' of tok toks suddenly descended on me.

      Or it could just be a coincidence! Anyways the main thing I am looking for is the continued direct incorporation of the vibration signal into the dream, as this is what I have been conditioning myself to respond to, but the good thing is that this is all adding to my experience of this particular technique.
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      Quick update whilst enjoying some good NZ Sav Blanc (did I mention we make some of the best sav blanc in the world? ).

      Main things from last night - did a WBTB, IC vII woke me up silently which was good. Did 10min MILD, returned to sleep, with CD21mins F then A vibes.

      No lucidity but one def FA. I have had several of these in the nights I've used the invisible clock, last night being typical - I think I have awoken momentarily and check the time on the clock then return to sleep in the hope of becoming lucid.....obviously the jokes on me because when I do actually awaken I realise the time I read on the clock could not be real (usually its later than what was real). ie last night in the FA I dreamt the time was 6.00am. When I did actually awaken it was around 5.30am. I guess I should try and catch these but doing proper reality check everytime - it should be simple just checking the time and rechecking it, but I at the time the 'waking' is pretty momentary and I'm trying to get back to sleep and avoid waking up too much in the hope of catching a proper REM period.

      Other stuff - recalled 2 dreams, 1 I managed to drag back after a complete blank in the morning by thinking about all the possible things that could have happened. Its always amazing how the tinniest detail can trigger a flood of memories - I wonder if this is how people with chronic amnesia operate? One of last nights dreams was kind of funny when I got dispropionately screamy when the a temporary room I was staying in got covered in dust and debris - I completely lost it! Not my finest hour

      Finally I guess I should start to somehow tabulate what I am doing with the invisible clock and the vibration induced LD's; FA's and incorporated vibrations so that I can see how I am progressing and I guess so I've got some info if any one else is interested in this in the future.

      Anyways its back to the wine and my wife and Friday night - happy weekends dreamers! cheers - Tlaloc

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      Vibe Nite #10

      VIBE NITE #10
      I woke up finally this morning feeling like it was Christmas day, and kept feeling like I wanted to punch the air for most of it!
      So what happened last night?

      In summary - a good example of how effective MILD can be in a dream, an almost DEILD (which demonstrated again how you can hit REM periods with the IC), and my first WILD in years with some decent stabilization (for me anyways) finished with a FA.

      1. fun non-lucid dream before my wbtb - a sort of narrative story one about a man who crash lands in a small coastal principality on the spanish peninsula and then manages to escape from one small kingdom to the next but making improvised flying devices. It was one of those suprising dreams where my imagination supplied a really fascinating coherent story for me to enjoy from start to finish from scratch. It concluded with modern day enthusiastes following in the guys footsteps. I don't know where the story came from - no obvious day residue.
      2. wbtb worked well, VII 5.30mins (approx 4am), then 3 mins vMILD, set the IC for the usual interval (20) at VI A
      3. next dream was non-lucid but reminded me how MILD can and does work, I dreamt I was hiking, and had become seperated from my friends. I ended up being able to take a conveniant lift up the side of a mountain to meet them at a viewing area there near the top. Once there I had the strong feeling I should be experiencing a vibration, and got a little edgey waiting for it - (this can happen IWL with the IC for me), no vibe came, I didn't do a RC without one (duh!) and the dream moved on before I shortly woke up. Upon awakening I checked the IC and the last vibe had been 15mins before my awakening, hence there was no vibe to feel in the dream - demonstrating that it was the anxiety that the vMILD created that had 'leaked' into my dream. Pretty cool.
      4. At this stage it was about 5am in the morning and still everything to play for. Around 6am a vibe woke me during a dream - I was at a workplace, kind of clock watching for my lunch break when the vibe hit and I actually awoke but only very very lightly. I lay motionless and a new dream started to form around me, in it I could see a sort of Islamic arch way made of 2 asymetrical columns - on the right a thick one with a palm and crescent sculpture repeated on it, on the other a thinner unadorned column. My brain interpreted this (and I'm not normally a religious or especially philosophical person) as meaning one side was to dream - with all its sculptured richness, and the unadorned side meant not to dream. Anyways - I started to lose focus with all this thinking and jolted myself too aware and awake - the feeling when the dream was forming was like falling asleep but being aware of it - and I awoke with the feeling washing over me - a thrumming vibration through my body and rushing in my ears and tingling - again - pretty cool my first unsuccessful but pretty close vDEILD. (and just to confirm I checked the IC after fully awakening and the vibe had gone off 2 1/2 mins earlier - fitting in with my memory of the experience). The other key bit about this was it again demonstrated how regularily you can fit REM periods with just using a timer - there is much more I could say on this subject....but enough for now
      5. At this stage I was awake again and it was 6.30am - the time I normally get up - but it was my weekend off (I alternate with work) and the wife and kids were (incredibly) still asleep so again I thought - 'there's still everything to play for', I estimated I probably had 30mins max to work with so pulled off the IC and turned over onto the side I don't normally sleep on. I could hear my wifes breathing pretty loudly and I thought initially I wouldn't be able to get back to sleep - but then I thought about a DV guide I'd read (Naiyas?) about how she listened to the sound of a fan whilst falling to sleep to WILD so I decided to do that and thats how I got my lucid of the night to be the cream on a pretty cool cake of dreaming...
      .....LUCID 21.....
      I am listening to my wifes breathing in and out, in and out, and suddenly I am in a dream scene in a room like my old house with a computer on the desk. I am aware I am dreaming (I don't think I ever lost consciousness hence the WILD) and I can hear my wifes breathing in the room like a soundtrack, I do a RC by looking at the function keys on the keyboard and am able to change the text after looking away and back ( I make the F4 key appear multiple times!). I confirm I am lucid and decide to stabilize following some advice I'd read on Benni's (a DV newbie and friend's) journal - by concentrating on the details first. I do this by staring at the keyboard intently and what happens next is quite trippy. Firstly my vision is limited to a small central clear zone, only about 15 degrees of my normal field of vision, the rest is there but very washed out and blurred, as though I am looking a sort of pinhole, I realise probably indicates that the dream might fade so I concentrate more on the keys and the coolest thing happens as I concentrate on the keys the detail becomes sharper and sharper like high definition but also more and more magnified, thus after a minute or 2 the computer keys now tower around me like apartment blocks on a street they are so big and so well defined - this is amazing, kinda like ' hey honey I shrank the kids' kind of stuff, but I worry that : I might wake and two - it might be grotesque if I met some massively enlarged debris between the keys - like body fluff or dead skin cells the size of firetrucks, so I decide to try and fly up and out, I do this by looking up and imagining myself going faster and faster and faster like a rocket and this is exactly what happens - I shoot way up, accelerating so fast the air around me streaks and pulls. After this I wake up, feeling pretty cool about the lucid, get up and walk outside, past our 'guest room' and down the hallway, thinking I wonder who's in the guest room.....I then wake up for real! still in bed aware that the last part was a FA - we have no guest room - hence my confusion.

      Anyways that alot to write in 1 post - busy night but really fun and instructive - first WILD in years and only the second in my life, and my first LD after joining DV's after only a couple of days so I am really really chuffed!!! It was really cool to do something which was so 'otherworldly' as well, I woke up feeling like a magician who had just pulled off an amazing spell! Heres to more of those feelings soon!

    5. #5
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      Vibe Nite #11 (and LD #22)

      I'm going to try and keep this shorter this time!! Usual settings for the IC, WBTB successful at 3.50am, felt really awake, did vMILD for 3mins and tried to return to sleep. Really warm night last night despite being mid winter - our terraced house is well insulated and it was a rainly listless night and my wife (who's a very light sleeper) was tossing and turning a lot so it was REALLY difficult to get back to sleep, seemed everytime I just drifted off she would roll over and we'd start again....but eventually drifted into sleep and got the following lucid...a lot of it came from the NZ pics we'd been looking at earlier in the night from our hol there at xmas

      LD 22 - I am being driven somewhere in the UK, its winter and dark and wet and the housing is densely packed, then we move into a more open area and the road markings have been painted onto the grass verge and I think 'they would never allow that in the UK with all the rules its more like NZ' and then the dreamscape turns into Wellington (NZ) to outside St Pats (town) the markings being the lines of a hockey field on astroturf. I am now walking down the road past the college, its a bright bright summers day and I feel really energized and happy, off to my right the clear waters of Evans bay lap against the shore and just up front is the turning for the scenic route into Wellington around the Bays. The dreamscape is very clear and accurate. Theres a warm wind and 3 monarch butterflies drift past me, I smile and think how great it would be to come back to wellington permanently with my family at this time, I think - 'how lucky I am to be back in Wellington, only a few weeks from our last holiday there..........at this point I start to become lucid (I am not sure if this is due to the repeated vMILD I've been doing during my waking times, or else its because the logic of being in Wgtn again is faulty, anways...) I start to do a RC of looking at my wrist watch, but stop, remembering that I need to stabilize the dream and what Benni (from DV's) had recommended. I drop instantly to my knees and stare at the concrete pavement, its incredibly realistic with small bits of crushed seashell in it. I focus it well, but feel a rush of lucidity hitting me and the dream darkens and fades. I lie still to try and DEILD, its like I'm in almost sleep paralysis, but my heartrate is too high and it doesn't happen. After a min or two the vibe goes off, but I'm awake now. ( A good sign though, as if I'd hadn't have been lucid and awakened it is likely it would have hit the REM period anyway).

      Awake again I struggle to get back to sleep - again wifey is tossing and turning while I lie rock still trying to slip off. I can feel the REM period wanting to come, I get some HA auditory now and then as I almost drift off - someone shouting like a turettes patient near my ear and the feeling of deep immobility like sleep paralysis....eventually the following happens....

      LD22a (an 'almost lucid dream' that I'm not counting in my LD count)....
      ....I feel like I am drifting into sleep, slight tingling and stillness, and I see a large picture frame the size of a doorway infront of me, I grab it and pull myself through it, but the dreamlet fades, but in around 20 secs it returns again, I grab it again and pull myself through (its like I'm floating through it at speed). Suprisingly as I do this a woman and her child grab onto my shoulder and are dragged through with me!!! The next thing that happens is that we are all lying in a white rowing boating in the sea, I am both in it and above it, and the woman says to me 'thanks for helping us', and I say 'yeah, its amazing what you can do in a...........' and I suddenly realise I'm gonna say LUCID DREAM - and wake up!
      This was a cool kind of almost WILD/DILD - as I went through the picture frame I lost consciousness but regained lucidity almost immediately after when answering the lady....unfortunately the surprise of this woke me instantly so I'm not really classing this as a lucid dream.

      Really enjoyed both of these experiences, the feeling of being back in NZ was so so realistic and my vision crystal clear, and the almost WILD was cool in that I leapt into the dreamscape and it was kinda cool how a dream character grabbed onto me to get there too! What I REALLY REALLY have to work on is stabilization, I feel I can induce lucids on a pretty reg basis now on the Vibe Nite nights, but I have to crack stabilization in my own way.

      Goin to have a fallow night tonight so will post once I've had another vibe nite in a day or so.
      Last edited by Tlaloc; 01-28-2014 at 02:44 PM. Reason: spelling

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      Is someone free to offer some advice?!!

      I would really appreciate if anyones got the time to offer some peronal tips on stabilization. Does everyone need to stabilize so quickly upon becoming lucid? I feel most of the time I've got maybe 1-2 seconds before the dream starts to slip which adds to the stress of the situation. I have managed to stabilize a few of my LD's, but not consistantly.
      Did anyone who's a regular LDer now have as many false starts as I'm having? It would be REALLY encouraging to hear about someone who's been in a similar situation and triumphed!

      any personal experiences anyones happy to share would be greatly welcomed! Thanks in advance!!!
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    7. #7
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      Hi! That's a common problem for many especially in the beginning. However, while it may happen, it doesn't necessarily always have to happen. So one advice for the long term is don't always associate the moment of becoming lucid with instability.

      There are a number of reasons for instability, lack of experience, excitement, lack of focus or simply catching it at the end of REM. The dream is made from your thoughts and you need to support its existence by feeding those thoughts (which manifest as objects) with your attention. We usually recommend immensing in the dream as much as possible, engaing your senses, giving your full attention to what is in front of you. You may also try rubbing your hands or touching the surface of different objects.

      Also, having a task in mind of what you want to do in the dream will help prolong the dream by keeping you more focused. Check out some cool tasks we do monthly:

      Tasks of the Month & Year

      Also, here's a great podcast on stabilization:

      http://www.dreamviews.com/dreamviews...-mistakes.html

      Good luck!

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      Hi NyxCC! I really appreciate you taking the time to reply!!! I think I've suffered from all 3 of the reasons you gave for waking upon becoming lucid (and probably all at once at times!! :0 ). I tried to download the podcast without success so I'll just listen to it straight from the site in the next day or two, be interesting anyways to put some voices to the names I've seen alot of before!

      I had another lucid last night I'll write up in the next day or two (unfortunately I am working all this week and weekend), during which I made an effort not to get over excited - I actually seemed more lucid in that moment that the practice in real life prior - managing to say outloud 'this is my lucid dream and I control it' ....but it collapsed anyway guess I didn't own it enough! still alittle progress and at least I got lucid - and it was a vibe dream with good incorporation which was cool.

      I definitely take your point about having a goal beyond being lucid to keep me engaged with the dream world and your explanation that I am engaging my thoughts in the form of dream objects was really helpful.

      I think I am going to give spinning another shot (but in a non-excited/stressed way). Its just trying to practice in real life that I find awkward - I've got massively long monkey arms and whenever I spread them out to spin I seem to bang into things! Plus its hard to practice in public! However I feel I've finally got my foot jamming open the dream door alittle by being able to induce lucids pretty regularily now but I need to open that door fully to see whats really inside.....I've had a few brief looks once or twice but I think a really enjoyable lucid of even just 2 minutes length would be massively motivating for me.

      Thanks again for your help NyxCC, its really motivating to get some feedback from someone else! Have a great weekend!!! cheers! :0
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      Member Tlaloc's Avatar
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      This is a quick update on the last 2 vibe nites - I've called these 'soft' as they are on work nights so they pretty much consist of setting the vibe alarm for a 5 hr wbtb, then doing a vMILD for 3 mins, setting the IC and going back to sleep quickly and seeing what happens with the intention of minimum sleep disturbance.

      (soft) Vibe Nite 12 (Wed night)
      - went to bed too late (c 11.30am) so shortened wbtb to 4 hrs, but woke up after 3 and made the mistake of setting the IC, using a repetition of 2 secs at 30mins then 5 secs at 50mins (VI). No lucids.

      Lesson learnt - don't go to bed too late, don't shorten length to wbtb.
      Interesting aside - the natural dream that woke me before the intended wbtb timer went off was interesting - it was more like I was observing my thoughts (maybe some other stage of sleep) - I could see myself being lucid from afar and got cross that I was simply thinking about lucid dreaming rather than being 'within' myself (ie it was like I was observing a video of myself), so I tried to wake myself up, this didn't work initially and I suddenly thought - is this a lucid dream? and I tried to drive the image of myself through the floor boards of the building I was in (I read a post earlier that night on dream views that this was a good technique for DEILD'ing) but no success and woke up to do the wbtb. Don't really know what this was all about so haven't included it as a lucid.

      (soft) Vibe Nite 13 (Thurs night)
      -went to bed around 11am or just before. Proper wbtb at just before 4am (5hrs). vWILD 5mins, set IC to repeating 21 5secs VI, back to sleep

      LUCID #23
      (pre lucid) - this is a bit of a weird one so I won't repeat any of it.....it ends up with me being out in the street in NZ, I am looking down the wide empty street to the hills in the distance when the first (real) vibe hits - I am pretty sure I am dreaming so I look at my wrist watch - it goes from 4.30 to 10 something on the repeat viewing so I confirm I am dreaming - as I am doing this another (fake) vibe hits, and I say outloud 'this is my lucid dream, I am in control' a third (fake) vibe hits and everything greys but more slowly than usual, it goes black, I wait to try and DIELD but no luck. After a min or 2 I open my (real) eyes and check the IC seeing the vibe went off 3mins before.
      Lessons - it worked work again - good incorporation, interesting that (again) my brain reinterpreted the signal - this time repeating the vibe several times (the only genuine one could have been the first). BUT I'd didn't stabilize enough - even though I was pretty impressed I recalled and used the phrase I'd only read up about the day before - I think though I need to keep calm but really try and stimulate my dreamsenses so its back to trying to spin, but in a way that doesn't induce panic and waking too early.

      Anyways off to bed soon

      happy dreams!
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    10. #10
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      You're welcome! Congrats on the ld! I think with more practice you will be able to handle these lds pretty well. It's really good that the vibe thing is successfully helping you with ld induction. Any ld, even a short one adds value for a lucid work out.

      Great weekend to you too!
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    11. #11
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      MY ACTION PLAN FOR STABILIZATION

      So I've worked out a way I can practice stabilizing a lucid dream in real life. I have started using the IC again IWL but only in the evenings, setting the countdown timer to go off for 5 secs (VII) roughly (+/- a few mins) on the hour. This way I know roughly when its going to go off by looking at my watch (the IC itself is against my ankle), so when I gets close to the time its going to go off I move, without alerting anyone else, to a room where theres no one else and when it does go off I do the following......

      .....I don't panic, I s l o w l y raise my wrist and look at the time, or some text, and then s l o w l y check it again without feeling panic or rushed. I imagine seeing the time change and start to spin around saying outloud 'I am positive when I stop spinning I am still dreaming'. I then think about what I'd do next (bound out of the room in big jumps, TOTM) and after that return to whatever I left before.

      This means I can do the practice in private and in full without looking like a dope or crashing into stuff. It also continues to associate the viberation with R/C's but in a not panicked way.....

      anyways worth a shot eh?!!!!

      hoping to get some vibe nites in soon, I've been working a long week - 6 days with a day off on Tues so hopefully tomorrow night might be a goer to try this out.

      Happy dreaming!
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      RECENT STUFF and LUCID #24

      Have had a terrible head cold the last 5 days/nights or so basically ceased the vibe nites whilst that was happening as was having problems just staying asleep and rested.

      However last night I did get a lucid - if a brief one. This was a non-vibe nite - the dream was essentially a FA that I worked out was a FA - I felt like I had woken up in bed and looked at my watch and it read 6.40 (interestingly even though it was pitch black I could read it), in my mind I felt the time was odd in that I should have been woken up by our alarm by now at this point I became suspicous I was dreaming and as I looked at the watch my vision zoomed in on it the digits displaying the time getting larger and larger (reminiscent of lucid 21) - at this point I was fully lucid - the digits of the dark watch face back so large I was swallowed up in the black of the clock face and into, what others have described as, the VOID (!!!! ) - black emptiness. My intention had been to spin when i became lucid but this presented a problem as in the dream i was lying in bed (and even though I know this is a dream and I can do anything) - it seemed difficult as to how to start spinning whilst lying in a sheet on the mattress! so I started rubbing my hands together. In the void I could still feel my hands rubbing together and the initial concern that I had lost the dream was cancelled out by the fact that I was aware that these could only be my dream hands and by feeling them I was still dreaming! I then tried to spin in the void but this didn't work well at all - instead I could feel my eyes moving in my real body - side to side, side to side and this made me more aware of reality. I then tried to return to rubbing my hands again but this time I couldn't actually feel them only imagine I was rubbing them - this made me realise I'd woken up. So I opened my eyes, checked my watch to ensure it wasn't another FA (sigh.....no such luck).

      Anyway - this small lucid event cheered me up alot as it coincided with me feeling much better (healing lucid dream anyway? ) and its nice just to have an unexpected lucid gift in the morning. From someone who never naturally dreamed before 6mths ago being able to continue to have these lucid moments feels amazing.

      anyways if I can get into bed before 11pm tonight I think I'll do a wbtb and vibe nite tonight so....fingers crossed.
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    13. #13
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      Hope you feel better soon.

      Congrats on number 24 and catching that FA! I really liked how well you acted while in the void. Being in the void can be quite tricky because we usually have very little stimuli to hang on to, yet with some experience it can be used as an opportunity to continue dreaming, chance scenes etc. One thing that has worked for me is to expect the dream to come back or wait and intend the next dream to start. Others have tried imagining and expecting a particular dream scene or even a small part of the dream - maybe imagine touching the surface of something, holding on to furniture, etc. You may also expect a DC to give you a hand and drag you out of there! Rubbing hands and poking your dream body's quite popular too, so well done there!

    14. #14
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      Hi NyxCC - thanks for the feedback! I like your ideas about the void - whilst I was there, it didn't feel rushed more like being in a darkened warm theatre waiting for the movie to start type feeling so I can see what you mean by using the time to prepare for the next dream scene. I think your idea of rubbing the floor would be useful for me to maintain my stabilization and give some features to a potentially emerging dream scene so will try this next time....

      Congrats on getting your wings!!! Am I correct that you have to get them afresh every month?

      Had a funny dream this morning. I had meant to do a wbtb followed by setting the vibrating invis clock, but I'm still getting over this cold and get a bit of a cough going to sleep so wifey sent me downstairs to sleep. I set the clock to wake me up but slepth through it, awoke around 5.20 and decided it was too late to do the vibe nite so just went back to sleep. Around 6.30am I was in a dream - outside in a surburban street, some kids loading a truck with my wife directing things, then somehow I was waking up there too and trying to explain to some dc's why I was wearing a headband REM detector (I don't have one of these in real life!) and an invisible clock that was truely transparent (I was trying to explain to myself how this could be, given IRL it is sold black and trying to tell myself it was all down to the lighting). As I was doing this - SUDDENLY my wife is yelling my face ' GET UP!' in real life! This was really weird the immediate flick from the dream (in which I'm dreaming I'm waking up and my wife is in the street) to actually waking up with a start and my wife being right next to my face!
      My wife explained afterwards that she had come down and had been calling me from the doorway for a few moments, but I had earplugs in and bunged up ears anyway due to the cold, so she came over and increased her volume! It seems pretty likely to me that her calling from the door wasn't enough to wake me up but probably got incorporated into the dream - hence my dreaming (of her and) of waking up....just before she actually woke me up. Ahhh if only she had called out 'Dave you're dreaming!!!' instead! Ha Ha

      Anyways thats what I really like about dreaming is all the variety of the experiences, FA, lucids, sleep paralysis, HA, HH and incorporation of external stuff - even if you don't get lucid theres still loads of interesting stuff potentially going on!

      I've been thinking about the intervals I'm setting the viberation to, 21 mins repeat has been very effective but has the drawback that if I don't fall sleep before the vibes start (you can't set a delay) sometimes its hard to get to sleep again at all (because you start waiting for the next ones to hit). So I'm thinking I might set the first for 40mins, another for 60mins and then repeat, the disadvantage to this is that theres then a 40min gap in each cycle which decreases hitting a REM period....but I might try it for the 'soft vibe nites' and see what happens, keeping the 21repeat for the nights I can afford less sleep.

      Despite feeling knackered from the cold I am very keen to get back to it and keep the momentum going so hopefully I'll be able to try it out again pretty soon.

      Thanks again for the feedback and tips NyxCC!
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    15. #15
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      Hi Tlaloc,

      I was just reading through your workbook and thought I would congratulate you on the lucids you have had. Seems like you have been fairly successful with your vibration device. I would actually like to know more about it. I use my phone through out the day to cue me every 7 to 15 minutes to do some sort of reality check. I always forget to do them when I am busy. Anyways, I was thinking of sticking it in my pocket some night for an external cue. How does yours work and what do you use?

      I had some massive issues stabilizing at first. I think it is mostly to do with the excitement and I find myself still getting really excited at times and messing up the dream. The main thing I have learned is to relax and absolutely do not think about your waking body or waking up. That is an immediate dream ender right there. The best thing you can do for stabilization is to go go go. Interact with the environment, touch things, look at things be very aware of your surroundings. I first started really really examining my hand, looking at the wrinkles, the hairs, the imperfections and seeing as much detail as I could. Make sure you have a list of things you want to do. My longest lucid yet was the one where I did the task of the month last month. Those do seem to help and definitely help with dream control. Well good luck to you!
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    16. #16
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      Hi 501 - and thanks for the tips on stabilization! For a while I did used to look at my hands as a sort of R/C - you know counting my fingers and this worked well, but then one lucid I had about 3 months ago I looked down to check my fingers and my hand appeared small and shrivelled almost as if it were someone elses hand attached to my arm and to be honest it freaked the hell out of me so much I woke up and stupid to say its kind of put me off doing this as a reality check again!
      I think your advice about relaxing and interacting and having a plan is spot on though, maybe I've forgotten this in my quest just to get lucid. Congrats on last months TOTM - thats a massive boost!

      Anyways about your question about using the vibrating device. Mine is called an invisible clock II. You can use it like you are doing to just remind you during the day to do r/c's but what I found is that this has minimal impact on inducing lucids by itself unless you use it at night whilst asleep.

      The GREAT thing I found about using a vibrating cue is that it is unobtrusive so you can wear it for the whole day meaning it can go off in the middle of any activity you are doing - forcing you to stop for a second and do a R/C. Without the vibrating device I might remember do several R/C's during the day, but these are generally in quiet self reflective moments that don't generally mimic my dreaming life. Personally I found simply doing more R/C's during the day with the vibration going off DID NOT greatly increase my lucidity at night (although it felt like it should have done).

      However, doing the above, and then using the same cue at night DID have a big effect on my lucidity

      Its still pretty early days experimenting with this - but basically I've used the viberation cue on 14 of what I call 'vibe nites' (this is basically following a similar sort of method outlined below) of those 14 vibe nites I got lucid 7 times. Of this about half were due to the vibration being incorporated into the dream, the others were WILDs or DILDs (and I almost got a DEILD) which were related to the vibe going off. Theres also been a shed load of FA's though I haven't capitalised on these yet.

      To make it work I just do a wbtb 5 hours after I hit the hay, set the timer on repeat to go off for 5 secs every 21 mins, do about a 3 minute MILD about doing a r/c when I feel the vib go off and return to sleep.

      It takes a bit of getting used to with the technique - I'm happy to go into more detail, but its probably worth you trying it (if you want to) based on the above info - and if you have any probs/successes you can let me know!

      cheers - and I enjoyed reading your workbook - it'll be good to keep in touch! I think it really helps talkin to others about LD'ing - and if you are keen to give vibe niting a go that would be cool too!

    17. #17
      501
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      Well that sounds interesting. So when the vibe cues transition into the dream do you feel something vibrate in your dream or is it an earthquake? I am guessing there are different intensities you can set it up for too.

      I have had zero success doing WILDS, I think I am getting close but just cant seem to get that final step or two. I have been a little successful with supplements but haven't found any sort of magic combo. I still don't know if it is just placebo effect mixed with a little bit of luck.

      I will definitely keep up!
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    18. #18
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      Congrats on getting your wings!!! Am I correct that you have to get them afresh every month?
      Thanks Thaloc! Yes, we work to get new ones each month. You've got to check it out and try yourself. Completing tasks in lds has been of great help to remain lucid and prolong the dream.

      Tasks of the Month & Year

      Good luck with future lds to both of you! You guys are awesome!
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    19. #19
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      vibe nites 14 and 15

      These took place last night and 3 nights previously.

      For vibe nite 14 I was still pretty hammered by my cold. My wife decided to sleep downstairs after she had a coughing fit this time, and I set out to do a wbtb 5 hours after sleep. However around an hour earlier than planned my little daughter woke me up crying so I decided (against my better judgement) to do it earlier. I also lenghtned the intervals between the vibes to go off at 40mins (2secs) then 1 hour (5secs). Unfortunately no lucids. My wife came in the room and woke me again pretty abruptly (I think secretly she enjoys this!!) and I saw that a 2sec vibe had gone off around 4 mins before she woke me up. I had awoken from a dream - but couldn't remember the vibe being incorporated into it - so it a bit of a MIA moment.

      Of interest though was immediately after she woke me she left to go to the shower and I immediately dropped back into sleep and straight into REM dreaming and a sort of FA in that I was dreaming I was looking at the invisible clock to see when the vibe interval had hit - I then dragged myself awake again and realised I had just dreamt this as I was still in bed and the clock still against my ankle - so a pretty interesting snapshot of how quickly you can drop back into REM dreaming from waking (like a DIELD I guess without the lucidity).

      Vibe nite 15 last night.
      wbtb went well, improved the way in which I am using the timer to silently wake myself without disturbing my wife. Set the timer on 30min intervals to allow myself longer to return to sleep after the wbtb. No lucids - however frustratingly I was in a good stable dream when my daughter came and woke us up, around 1 minute later the timer went off doh!!!! so if she had been a few minutes later I might have been more lucky!

      so no lucids but some good points/ lessons
      1. better method of attaching IC for wbtb
      2. I have come up with an interesting idea for keeping the cycle at 21mins after the wbtb on a soft vibe nite, that I might try tonight
      3. I played around with the clock today IRL and I think the 2 secs cycle would be fine again if I reconditioned myself to it, but if 2. above works I won't have to

      Still everything to play for!
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    20. #20
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      Hi 501

      you asked about how the vibe gets intergrated into the dream. It gets directly intergrated into the dream - identical to the vibration in real life, with the exception that the length of the vibration might change, or once my brain added in alot of beeping noises as well as the vibe. I'll give you an example of a kind of fun one
      'I'm in my 'apartment house' with my wife and a bunch of our 'friends' (these are all false memories), we are all sat down chatting and suddently the invisible clock goes off against my ankle, I'm worried my 'friends' might hear the vibrating noise and as I think this is starts making a beeping sound! I quickly move to my wifes bag to get away from our 'friends' and to pretend I'm looking for a phone, but no one seems to notice and as in real life the vibration (and noise) stop in a few seconds. I still think this is my real life, so I do a reality check with my watch and am amazed to find I am dreaming! As soon as this happens I realise all of this is false memories, we don't live in an apartment, these aren't our friends, just random dream characters! I look from watch at a guy sat next to my wife on the couch (alittle too close) - with a look like - 'who the heck are you pretending to be my mate?' his head shoots up and he gives me a startled glance that cracks me up as if hes just been caught out' and unfortunately then I wake up.

      So as you can see the vibration worked pretty much as it would in real life, just being intergrated into the dreamscape - plus some audio beeps this time (because I'd been anxious when I set at the wbtb before that I musn't set it wrong and wake my wife).

      The direct integration is what makes it work well, because you are experiencing the same thing as what you have prepared for in real life - to do a reality check following the vibe sensation.

      Its possible on a couple of occassions its been indirectly intergrated - but this is harder to spot and prove - perhaps once as the roar of an avalanche, the other as a roar of tok toks down a street. You mentioned earthquakes (a good question from someone in California to a kiwi who has lived with earthquakes all his life prior to coming to the UK!). None so far. Had you read of this in la berges book? In his experiments with vibration they ended up putting the vibrating device in the foot of the mattress and this is probably what generated that sensation. The reason for this might be because the noise of the vibration as well as the vibration itself is conducted through the mattress to the pillow to your ear. This may have happened when I had the dreams of the tok toks and the avalanche, if my ankle was pressing the timer into the mattress. I prefer not to do it this way as it seems to work better when the vibration is as similar to what I am doing in real life.

      Again that seems to me to be one of the best advantages to doing this 'technique'. Unlike a light stimulation (like the novadreamer etc) which you can't practice with during the day, you can wear this device around and it goes off and you do the reality check. At night you wear it, if you are lucky it hits an REM cycle and you are alert enough, it goes off and gets directly incorporated into the dream, you do a RC and become lucid. It requires no interpretation.

      anyways thats a long answer but I could keep going! Hope this helps - cheers - T
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    21. #21
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      Of interest though was immediately after she woke me she left to go to the shower and I immediately dropped back into sleep and straight into REM dreaming and a sort of FA in that I was dreaming I was looking at the invisible clock to see when the vibe interval had hit - I then dragged myself awake again and realised I had just dreamt this as I was still in bed and the clock still against my ankle - so a pretty interesting snapshot of how quickly you can drop back into REM dreaming from waking (like a DIELD I guess without the lucidity).
      You might also consider adding RCing upon wake to your routine. It's a great way to catch those FAs.
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    22. #22
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      Vibe Nite #16 and Lucids 25 and 26

      Had a brilliant night last night! Where I felt I'd been jamming open the door to lucidity repeatedly in the last couple of weeks, last night I felt like I really swung the door wide open and stepped on in into the room! It felt GREAT!!!!!

      Lucid 25
      I woke up 1 minute 30secs before my wbtb alarm of 5 hrs was due. Had gone to bed earlier as my wife is sick so this was around 3.30am. Set the clock for the usual intervals but waited until I felt sleepy after the 3min vMILD before starting it....

      At around 4.20 I am in a dream, I am in a IKEA store and its like the staff have dressed up from the 'playing with my friends' video, in teddy bear costumes. Wife and I leave the store and head to the car park, she opens the boot of the car to put a push chair in and the push chair is left partly in the road, blocking a car from passing that patiently waits. Wife tells me off for not helping so real life! We head off towards a nz outdoor shop and I stop by a sort of utility room in the car park. I say 'I'll see you there I just need to check this is locked' and go into the utility room and out the other door to the outside again, as I am closing the door.....the vibe hits, 2 slow 5 sec vibes the first slightly broken in the middle, I know this is wrong because it should be only 1 5 sec continuous vibe so I suspect I am dreaming . Following my practice in real life I slowly and calmly do a RC by slowing looking at my watch (4pm) and again (10am)....I am lucid but I am calm and I immediately start walking away from the door to do my planned activity (jumping). I am looking around as I am doing this and the scene is hyperrealistic, I literally AM in this place, the door handle, the grass, the stubby tree all are as though they would be in real life, I emerge onto the edge of a large empty grass playing field, and start jumping just as though I were on a trampoline - and just like on a trampoline I bounce, up and down, up and down, speed and height roughly equivalent to a trampoline, except I am doing this just on the flat lawn! I look around as I am jumping, I see clear building fringing the edge of the field and a church spire in the right hand corner, the contrast is excellent and the sky a very vivid NZ type blue with a sun burning mid way up. I feel amazed....here I am literally under an alien sun.....an entire world complete with its own sun which exists no where else but within me! I feel supercharged but also awed and alittle apprehensive at being alone in this place. The dream starts to fade down and I am content to let it go as I don't want to risk forgetting it and I am so happy with what I have achieved - I have carried out my intentions from earlier in the week (stabilize (thanks NyxCC, Benni and 501 for advice!), bound up and down) and I have intentionally gotten lucid through using the vibration! Happy, happy happy!!!

      I wake, check the clock, 4 mins since the vibe hit. I lie in bed and can feel more REM wanting to come. Pretty quickly I go into sleep paralysis and I hover around the point of WILDing but I just can't quite get the balance right. I imagine (following your advice NyxCC) rubbing the carpet and twice I can FEEL this happening as opposed to imagining it but as soon as I consciously realise this I slip back to waking, its like being on a see saw and either being too awake or becoming unconscious.

      After I bit I decide if I pursue this I am not going to get back to sleep, so I do some SSILD cycles to relax myself and try to reset the Invis clock and return to sleep.

      Lucid 26
      around 5.20am I am dreaming I am at work. Unlike a lot of my dreams this is set in real life, my work place and it is so realistic it is as it is in reality - it literally IS my workplace. Its the prework morning meeting discussing patient lists etc. A colleague who I know is pregnant but whom is yet to tell me she is pregnant because we mostly work different shifts is sitting next to me and I know this is what she is going to tell me. However there is a roaring noise too loud for me to hear which is weird and suddenly I think 'hey is this the IC clock vibrating and I'm hearing the noise? - this is a dream!' as soon as I think this dream ends - almost with a pop! This doesn't put me off though - I am so pleased to have gotten lucid again - this feels like a 'buy one get one free bonus!' !!!!

      I check the invisible clock and find that the timer can't have gone off as I'd accidently changed the setting when Id tried to reset it after the WILDing failure. This shows just how important expectation can be on awareness.

      So happy with the nights results, I just keeping thinking of that alien sun burning in the so blue sky and what it means - I have finally arrived in a new world!

      Happy dreaming!!!!
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    23. #23
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      Ahhh, that's awesome Tlaloc! Congrats on the lds! :bravo: Jumping on the grass with the trampoline effect must have been very cool! And I totally understand the feelings of awe! Sometimes the only thing I need in lds is the sun shining!
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    24. #24
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      Vibe night 17 and (seperately) Lucid 27

      Did another vibe nite immediately after my success with #16 but no lucids, a couple of times the vibe hit just after a dream had ended - so just unlucky I guess.

      Last night took the night off (got a bit of a cough from the previous cold which is distracting) but got another lucid anyway which was great!

      Lucid 26
      Got woken up at 4.30am by our daughter coming into our room wanting to sleep in our bed! Wife and I both got up and took care of this 'emergency' situation and then went back to bed.

      At 5.20ish I was in a dream that I was in a field looking at the overgrown cavea (seating) of a roman chariot circus (think Ben Hur). It looks like two parallel massive mounds of earth (the buried seating stands) with a large alley inbetween where the chariots would have raced. I am suprised that I didn't know this was here - as I thought I knew of most of the Roman remains in the UK. Happy with the unexpected find I wander up the grass covered ruin. Behind me I hear a man scrambling and I look back and there is an old man who is excavating some roman pottery remains from the buried site. I look down and spot some samian (red coloured) roman pottery by my feet and dislodge it. I then walk along the buried remains and spot 3 other objects which are superficially buried - including a womans bust. 2 things strike me as odd, all these pieces are the SAME as what the other man had found (but buried in a new location) and the 3 are just too good to be true, I vaguely think they might be fake but then I realise that this is a dream! It makes much more sense this is a dream and I vaguely do a RC check with my watch but it seems almost unecessary as it is now obvious this is a dream. I decide to do what my next plan was - to fly (I forget to ask the DC who my soul mate is unfortunately), so I run along the flat between the overgrown ruins and lift up easily into the air, unfortunately as I am doing this the dream goes greyish and cartoon like but I am kindof stuck floating in mid air so I can't spin or feel anything tactile under me, I forget rubbing my hands and make the most of looking around at the horizon and surroundings trying to soak it all in before it slowly fades out - cool but not as an amazing spectacle as that blazing alien sun from the other night.

      So good things - got another lucid (yay!), didn't wake instantly (yay!), remembered part of my plan (tick) but still lots to learn about stabilization (should have done this first).

      so I am going to try and work on this some more, just need to work out a good consistant strategy to stay in the dream - not getting overly excited and having a plan def help, so does tactile stimulation so maybe I've just got to keep doing all these three things together.
      Last edited by Tlaloc; 02-17-2014 at 09:37 PM.
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    25. #25
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      Nice! This dream was super cool without it being lucid and you made another success by realizing things were off with the buried objects! You know we actually had a task of the year last year that involved going to the Colosseum and having a fight there. This dream reminds me of it!

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