Thread: Howdy

Hello and Welcome to DreamViews! Peanut butter contains choline which can help with recall/vividness/etc. It also could have been benefited by a bit of placebo (as many things are). The best method to practice is DILD. Get back to performing reality checks during the day, but make sure you aren't just going through the motions. Take a moment to look around at your environment and ask yourself, "Could I be dreaming right now?" Imagine that you are actually within a dream...then perform the RC to see if you really are. I would suggest keeping a dream journal whether you can remember your dreams or not. You can just jot down brief notes of the dreams since you already have good recall. The idea of keeping up with a dream journal can spark lucid dreams itself. Stay confident and don't get discouraged. If you have doubts about having success, it will make it THAT much harder to LD. Fall asleep every night, knowing 100% that you are going to have a LD tonight. Good luck to you and if you have any further questions, don't hesitate to ask!

Yeah I kinda made RC into a chore, whoops

But thanks for the reply. One thing I have noticed is when I am scheduled to get up at 07:30, I set my alarm for about 2 hours before. Normally, I would just turn it off and go back to sleep, during which I am guaranteed to experience several vivid dreams. I was thinking, If I mix this with WBTB, surely this (Amongst other techniques such as RC) would result in a high chance of a LD?

I tried WBTB once, but I stayed up for half an hour and was unable to fall asleep for a long period of time. Is the idea to stay awake long enough that your brain is engaged but tired enough to fall back to sleep?

Thanks

Exactly. You need to be just awake enough that you won't lose consciousness too easily, but tired enough so that you can fall back to sleep. I would recommend leaning a bit more toward the tired side. I would suggest about 10 minutes awake on your next attempt, and go from there. I usually only stay awake for about 5 minutes before attempting a WBTB WILD, but everyone is different. You will just have to experiment with the times and figure out what is best for you. Even if you fail a WBTB and fall asleep normally, you have at least refreshed your mind to thoughts of lucidity. This can lead to DILDs as well. Just keep at it and you will have that first LD in no time!

Oh I thought WBTB resulted in a DILD, but you can partner it up with a WILD?

That makes a lot of sense now actually, is that why LD are common when you try a WILD during a nap? And I thought REM sleep ended after a period of time, so why are naps so successful?

And just to be clear, for one to WILD, is it basically just not thinking/moving and waiting till your body goes to sleep (Which you mind should follow shortly after) I know about SP and the likes aswell, but is that WILDing in a nutshell?

Finally, is it possible to WILD before REM sleep? So the initial time when you go to bed?

Thanks a lot for your input (:

- Yeah WILDing with WBTB has its benefits. Since you have been sleeping, your body is already sufficiently relaxed for the WILD process. Thus, allowing you to skip any relaxation techniques in preparation for sleep.

- The REM period begins for each person at a different time during sleep (usually anywhere from 2-5 hours after falling asleep). At the beginning of the night, the REM periods are very short. As the night progresses, the REM periods extend in length. The REM periods will occur closer together as the night progresses as well (less NREM time between each REM period). The average dreamer gets around 5 REM periods a night. By the end of sleep, you are hitting the full blown REM periods (maximum length, minimum time between each period). So, now comes my theory on the matter. I haven't really been able to find an exact answer for why REM is easily reached in naps, but from experience, experimentation, and research I believe it is this...After an entire night of on and off REM sleep, your brain has locked in this process. It will want to continue this process even though you are awake. This would explain why someone who did not get adequate sleep the night before, will experience alertness in waves. You know the feeling, you will be tired, then be ok for a while, then you will notice you are tired again, then be alert for awhile, and then get tired again...until your day really gets rolling. Just as the REM periods lengthen and become closer together throughout the night, it will be the opposite for the day. These moments where your brain wants to continue the sleep process will lessen as the day wears on, until your brain has gotten used to being awake/fighting off the sleep process. Now your brain gets locked in to being awake. This in turn, makes a part of your brain want to continue the awake process even when you are tired and enter sleep. That is why it takes several hours of sleep before the REM periods slowly start up and reach their peak toward the end of sleep. On the process goes on, and on. Of course, caffeine, sleep deprivation, and many other factors can be tossed in to mix it up, but this is the base process. There is a little REM lesson through Yoshi's eyes for ya .

-You can think all you want. I like to let my mind wonder and not focus on any single thought. Focus on the thought process as a whole (if that makes any sense). The general idea is to not move and keep your mind going just enough to keep consciousness while falling asleep. You can move and still succeed, but its general practice to not do too much moving. Its hard to fall asleep while moving right? SP will set in first when you actually begin to fall asleep. Now you face the transition stage. This is where you will get the HI/HH (hypnagogic imagery and hallucinations respectively). Basically, ride the tide of SP and transition into the dream state. This was in a nutshell of course .

- It is possible to WILD when first going to sleep, but it is frustratingly difficult. Your mind isn't ready to enter REM sleep and even if you hit SP, it is difficult to transition. I've achieved it before, but it was made easier by the previous nights sleep deprivation. There are a small number of dreamers who have success with WILD upon sleep, but they are few and far between. Even when you manage to achieve this, the REM periods are short at the beginning of sleep and often have many stability issues, clarity issues, etc. Which can be fixed from within the dream of course.

No problem, glad to help. Good luck to you and if there is anything else, don't hesitate to ask!

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Well that is quite a theory you have (; and it certainly makes sense to a degree.

Taking out external variables such as sleep deprivation, how would you be able to work out how long it takes for me personally, to enter REM sleep, seeing how you said everyone is different.
I know that may sound extreme, but is there anything I can do before I go to sleep which would result in my waking up before I hit my REM period, or is down to just waking up at random times?

I have had a lot of success with waking up 2 hours before I normally do, but I'm certain I have entered REM sleep before that, so by finding out when this period starts, then I should be able to experiences more dreams, in theory?



I have one last question. Does the mind actually go to sleep?

When we are awake, the mind is obviously active. When we are dreaming, the mind is active.
So what happens between the period of us actually going to sleep for the first time? When we go to bed, we think loads, then it just goes black for ages (For lack of a better way of describing it) then REM sleep kicks in.

Maybe our conscious mind just runs out of things to think about, so it just goes silent. Which explains why we are able to hear external noises while we sleep (Alarm clocks)
- I haven't actually thought about this before, but I guess this period of blackness is just our eyes watching our eyelids?

In which case, I have another question, something I hope your experiences can shed light on. Are dreams something our eyes see (almost on our eyelids) Or is it something we see with our minds eye? What happens when you WILD? Can you actually move your eyes and seem the environment being built?

I guess that's what REM sleep is, but still, do we see dreams with our eyes or our mind's eye?

Thanks

Hmm, lets see...

Originally Posted by WishfulThinking

Well that is quite a theory you have (; and it certainly makes sense to a degree.

Taking out external variables such as sleep deprivation, how would you be able to work out how long it takes for me personally, to enter REM sleep, seeing how you said everyone is different.
I know that may sound extreme, but is there anything I can do before I go to sleep which would result in my waking up before I hit my REM period, or is down to just waking up at random times?

I have had a lot of success with waking up 2 hours before I normally do, but I'm certain I have entered REM sleep before that, so by finding out when this period starts, then I should be able to experiences more dreams, in theory?

That is correct. This isn't too difficult to figure out. Basically, set an alarm for say...2 hours into sleep. Wake up and if you can remember a dream, you have hit REM. If not, set it for an hour in advance and do the same. Once you have remembered a dream, write the time down. The next night, try an alarm 30 minutes before the time you wrote. Doing this you can pin point your general starting time. Mine actually starts about 2.5 hours into sleep. You can also play around with the alarms and try to figure out the time periods between your REM periods as well. Though a general rule of thumb is 90 minute intervals.


I have one last question. Does the mind actually go to sleep?

When we are awake, the mind is obviously active. When we are dreaming, the mind is active.
So what happens between the period of us actually going to sleep for the first time? When we go to bed, we think loads, then it just goes black for ages (For lack of a better way of describing it) then REM sleep kicks in.

There are actually 5 stages of sleep. The brain continues to function all night (of course) and does different things in each stage of sleep. I would say that the mind (thinking/thought process) does indeed rest (sleep) during certain stages of sleep (most of NREM). Otherwise, we would dream all night long.

Maybe our conscious mind just runs out of things to think about, so it just goes silent. Which explains why we are able to hear external noises while we sleep (Alarm clocks)
- I haven't actually thought about this before, but I guess this period of blackness is just our eyes watching our eyelids?

Hmm...I'm not sure about this, but I have known a couple people who slept with their eyes open (it is kind of creepy, but very cool at the same time). One guy slept with his eyes almost completely open, so I guess that would go against this theory.

In which case, I have another question, something I hope your experiences can shed light on. Are dreams something our eyes see (almost on our eyelids) Or is it something we see with our minds eye? What happens when you WILD? Can you actually move your eyes and seem the environment being built?

During the WILD process, your thoughts slowly transition into images and full blown scenes. At first it feels almost as if you were daydreaming. Then you notice that your thoughts are forming pictures and other visuals. Your mind's eye takes over at some point during the process (likely during the transition when HI/HH becomes full blown). It never really feels like the visuals are on your eyelids. Its really like your mind is opening up and you are seeing thoughts. with something besides your eyes. It is your mind's eye imho, .

I guess that's what REM sleep is, but still, do we see dreams with our eyes or our mind's eye?

Interesting enough though, in a book I read on lucid dreaming (can't remember which one it was now), the performed an experiment with the eye movements. Once the subject entered REM sleep, the author shined some sort of small light source onto the subjects eyelids. The subject had a certain pattern he was to move his "dream eyes" once he noticed the light (like left, center, left, center, right, etc). The subject was able to perform this pattern. So, there is definitely a relation between the mind's eye and your actual eyes during REM. It simply may be that during REM your eyes obviously aren't paralyzed and they are just acting out the dream (using the same patterns as your dream eyes).

Thanks

No problem!