Thread: Anonymous - The Plan

That's the kind of personal sacrifice required to get shit done in this world. Do you think they would've enjoyed the same level of success as blank faces behind a computer screen?

Originally Posted by Spartiate

That's the kind of personal sacrifice required to get shit done in this world. Do you think they would've enjoyed the same level of success as blank faces behind a computer screen?

Well, seeing as they're all trolls, I think they enjoy the anonymous part greatly. SO yeah.

So it's becoming more and more obvious that they don't care about any greater cause and are just out to raise some internet hell.

IMHO I think they're out for a cause but are motivated by the internet hell that happens in the process. Besides, it's the only way they know HOW to oppose. Think about it.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Really? Guys like Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr. and others have mastered civil disobedience while being in the spotlight.

Those guys that both got shot yeah?

EDIT: woops, missed new page.

Have these kids never seen a run of the mill protest? Who are they to decide what is right or wrong if they seemingly understand so little about politics, the economy and society in general. Again, they are not to be taken seriously.

I think they rally behind the point that it doesn't matter who you are, it's not even about being anonymous. It's just a fact that people want to change the way things are, and they're all rallying under Anonymous because they're all just people. Names don't matter, and they shouldn't.

Oh come on, you and I know damn well that there is no point...

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Have these kids never seen a run of the mill protest? Who are they to decide what is right or wrong if they seemingly understand so little about politics, the economy and society in general. Again, they are not to be taken seriously.

Who are they to decide!???!?!?
I'm pretty sure everyone (EVERYONE) can decide what needs to be changed.
Everyone and ANYONE.

Who are you to say certain people shouldn't be allowed to protest? Or to "Decide what's right and wrong".

Besides, they are protesting. That's what this forum is about. The plan one.

Just because they wear masks, does not mean it isn't a normal protest.
It just makes their point so much stronger.
There is a word you can call the protestors at everything protest.
The news can put a name to the group of people there.
People can come together on their websites to organise and join protests.
But there is nobody to incarcerate and nobody to punish.

You can't get much stronger than that.

Yeah really Spart...who are they to decide? They're anyone who wants to change, that's who. Why shouldn't people have the right to protest against what they don't like? Wouldn't that be a form of censorship? Surpressing the words of those who want change?

Which is exactly their point. Nobody is saying you have to agree with it, or join the cause. They (I guess we, since I support it) even said in the video that if you don't see anything wrong, then don't participate and don't worry.

Originally Posted by tommo

Who are they to decide!???!?!?

Originally Posted by [SomeGuy]

Yeah really Spart...who are they to decide?

Would you trust a revolution in the hands of a person who has no overall understanding of how the world works (economy, politics, etc.)? I think some people are seeing problems that don't exist...

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Would you trust a revolution in the hands of a person who has no overall understanding of how the world works (economy, politics, etc.)? I think some people are seeing problems that don't exist...

It seems to me a lot of current leaders don't understand it either. Honestly, I'd take my vote for Anonymous.

Originally Posted by jarrhead

It seems to me a lot of current leaders don't understand it either. Honestly, I'd take my vote for Anonymous.

Do you?

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Do you?

Not enough to lead, no. But I'm also not trying to lead a revolution.

I don't think Anonymous is trying to lead a revolution either. Our government has shown us repeatedly that its lack of transparency is not in our favor. Anonymous is trying to expose them.

Originally Posted by jarrhead

Not enough to lead, no. But I'm also not trying to lead a revolution.

See that's the underlying problem, how can you pass judgement on your country's leaders if you don't understand how the country works? Running a country is an exceptionally complex task and, depending on factors outside of your control, not always one that can be done well. Would you trust anyone in Anonymous to be able to run the country better?

Most Anonymous members don't seem to realize the underlying causes of what they are fighting against and are even less aware of the consequences of their actions. Thankfully crashing websites is more of a nuisance than a danger for the general public.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

Anonymous is trying to expose them.

How?

Originally Posted by Spartiate

See that's the underlying problem, how can you pass judgement on your country's leaders if you don't understand how the country works? Running a country is an exceptionally complex task and, depending on factors outside of your control, not always one that can be done well. Would you trust anyone in Anonymous to be able to run the country better?

Most Anonymous members don't seem to realize the underlying causes of what they are fighting against and are even less aware of the consequences of their actions. Thankfully crashing websites is more of a nuisance than a danger for the general public.



How?

Is it not the people who vote for these leaders? I think so. And Anonymous are people, so they can vote against these leaders, and vote for what they need changed.

The people who vote for leaders, for a good deal, know a lot less about how to run a country than you or I probably.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

How?

Well, WIkiLeaks exposed a hell of a lot of stuff. As well as the BoA Foreclosure Fraud incident.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Would you trust a revolution in the hands of a person who has no overall understanding of how the world works (economy, politics, etc.)? I think some people are seeing problems that don't exist...

Lead your own protest against anonymous then. That's how it works.

Hundreds of thousands of people want a certain thing, now they have the ability to get it.
It doesn't matter whether anybody trusts or agrees with them. Because they (anon) do.

Also, I think I could run the country better than any politician has (in my country) for as long as I can remember.
They're all wrapped up in political bullshit and lose sight of what they wanted to do in the first place.
There's many things which aren't "exceptionally complex" or have "factors outside of your control".

Like setting up huge solar panel farms. Closing coal power plants. Legalising and regulating drugs. Banning political donations. Free health care.

All these things, for a start, are so simple. If every country did this, we would instantly be better off. Then we could start focusing on the other more complex things, since we would no longer be facing a very high risk of certain extinction.

Originally Posted by tommo

Lead your own protest against anonymous then. That's how it works.

Hundreds of thousands of people want a certain thing, now they have the ability to get it.
It doesn't matter whether anybody trusts or agrees with them. Because they (anon) do.

Also, I think I could run the country better than any politician has (in my country) for as long as I can remember.
They're all wrapped up in political bullshit and lose sight of what they wanted to do in the first place.
There's many things which aren't "exceptionally complex" or have "factors outside of your control".

Like setting up huge solar panel farms. Closing coal power plants. Legalising and regulating drugs. Banning political donations. Free health care.

All these things, for a start, are so simple. If every country did this, we would instantly be better off. Then we could start focusing on the other more complex things, since we would no longer be facing a very high risk of certain extinction.

There are some bits to it that you seem to have overlooked.

Solar Panel Farms to close Coal plants -- this destroys thousands of jobs. Solar panels are also not cost-effective. Governments work primarily on short-term, because, really, governments have already spent all their money (how is beyond me)
Legalizing and Regulating drugs -- how exactly do you plan on regulating the guy who grows pot in his basement? Drugs are too hard to regulate. Way too hard.
Banning Political Donations -- I agree with this.
Free Health Care -- I am very opposed to this. Having grown up on private health care, I'm glad it isn't free. In my country, 50% of the people don't pay taxes. First, it'll cost those who do more money in taxes than in insurance.. for lesser quality and greater hassle health care. This also complicates the process of private industry -- the sheer principle that makes this country work.

The above is a great example of how hard it is to run a country. If you can't please one person, imagine millions.

Lets assume that you're running a country with a balanced budget, meaning that right now, the country's expenses match its income.

Originally Posted by tommo

Like setting up huge solar panel farms. Closing coal power plants.

How will you pay for these solar power plants? Will they be in the private sector or controlled by the government? Where will you put them? Do you even have the technology to make the project feasible? Who will staff them? How will they be connected to the power grid? Will the end product increase the cost of electricity?

How will closing the coal power plants affect your nation's electricity supply and the cost of electricity? What happens to the people who were working in the power plants? What about the people extracting and transporting the coal? What will you do with the old power plants?

These are all questions that would take millions of dollars and years just to RESEARCH the proper solution, let alone implement it.

Legalising and regulating drugs.

Does enough of the population want to legalize drugs? Depending on what kind of system your country has, does federal law conflict with state/provincial law? How do you regulate the drugs? What do you do with all the law enforcement people and infrastructure who are currently fighting against drugs? What do you do with all the people who are incarcerated or otherwise currently being punished because of drugs? How will this affect international relations? How will this affect crime rates? How will this affect minors?

Banning political donations.

How will you get other politicians to agree with this? How will this affect the popular support of yourself and your party? How will you prevent the government from becoming elitist, as wealthy candidates will be able to pay for lavish campaigns whereas Joe Blow trying to run for office would be broke? What levels of government would this apply to?

Free health care.

Most countries that want free health care already have it, but assuming your country doesn't...

Do enough people want free health care? How will you pay for it? How will you provide it? What will happen to the private companies currently providing health care and the people they employ? Will the quality of health care you are able to provide be sufficient?


Evidently, nothing is simple when billions of dollars and millions of people are involved.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

The above is a great example of how hard it is to run a country. If you can't please one person, imagine millions.

Lets assume that you're running a country with a balanced budget, meaning that right now, the country's expenses match its income.



How will you pay for these solar power plants? Will they be in the private sector or controlled by the government? Where will you put them? Do you even have the technology to make the project feasible? Who will staff them? How will they be connected to the power grid? Will the end product increase the cost of electricity?

How will closing the coal power plants affect your nation's electricity supply and the cost of electricity? What happens to the people who were working in the power plants? What about the people extracting and transporting the coal? What will you do with the old power plants?

These are all questions that would take millions of dollars and years just to RESEARCH the proper solution, let alone implement it.



Does enough of the population want to legalize drugs? Depending on what kind of system your country has, does federal law conflict with state/provincial law? How do you regulate the drugs? What do you do with all the law enforcement people and infrastructure who are currently fighting against drugs? What do you do with all the people who are incarcerated or otherwise currently being punished because of drugs? How will this affect international relations? How will this affect crime rates? How will this affect minors?



How will you get other politicians to agree with this? How will this affect the popular support of yourself and your party? How will you prevent the government from becoming elitist, as wealthy candidates will be able to pay for lavish campaigns whereas Joe Blow trying to run for office would be broke? What levels of government would this apply to?



Most countries that want free health care already have it, but assuming your country doesn't...

Do enough people want free health care? How will you pay for it? How will you provide it? What will happen to the private companies currently providing health care and the people they employ? Will the quality of health care you are able to provide be sufficient?


Evidently, nothing is simple when billions of dollars and millions of people are involved.

I think we're agreeing for the first time in this thread.

I had totally overlooked the donation issue and have reversed my standing. Lol.

But very well said.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Have these kids never seen a run of the mill protest? Who are they to decide what is right or wrong if they seemingly understand so little about politics, the economy and society in general. Again, they are not to be taken seriously.

Have you ever seen (let alone participated in) a protest?

Originally Posted by jarrhead

There are some bits to it that you seem to have overlooked.

Is that so?
Okay.... let's see here....

Originally Posted by jarrhead

Solar Panel Farms to close Coal plants -- this destroys thousands of jobs. (OH NOEZ!!!! THE HORROR!!!!) Solar panels are also not cost-effective.

Since when? They are extremely cost effective. Especially the new solar FARMS, which have mirrors around in a circle which reflect the sun on to a giant tower. After it's built, you have maintenance costs, which are minimal. The rest is profit. If that's not cost effective I don't know what is.

Originally Posted by jarrhead

Legalizing and Regulating drugs -- how exactly do you plan on regulating the guy who grows pot in his basement? Drugs are too hard to regulate. Way too hard.

Why would I want to?
I would regulate drugs like MDMA and Heroin and Cocaine. Pharmaceutical grade chemicals. Dosage information, real health information etc. on the package.
Street manufacturers can't compete with that.

Originally Posted by jarrhead

Free Health Care -- I am very opposed to this. Having grown up on private health care, I'm glad it isn't free. In my country, 50% of the people don't pay taxes. First, it'll cost those who do more money in taxes than in insurance.. for lesser quality and greater hassle health care. This also complicates the process of private industry -- the sheer principle that makes this country work.

50%???? No.
People who make enough money SHOULD be paying more taxes.
Government healthcare works in every country it is implemented in.
Including my country.
You Americans have just been so completely brainwashed it's not funny.
The republicans literally fucked you all over for their own personal gain.
They lied through their teeth and most of you believed them.
How could it possibly "complicate the process of private industry"?

Originally Posted by Spartiate

How will you pay for these solar power plants? Will they be in the private sector or controlled by the government? Where will you put them? Do you even have the technology to make the project feasible? Who will staff them? How will they be connected to the power grid? Will the end product increase the cost of electricity?

Tax money. Controlled by government, everything that gets sold to private companies gets turned to shit. Everything!
Put them in the desert and other places that get loads of sun.
Yes, the technology is there. There's one being built at the moment.
WTF? How do you think? lol That's not even a question.
Why would it? You're getting almost free electricity. As I explained to jarrhead.
It would cost like a few dollars a year per person.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

How will closing the coal power plants affect your nation's electricity supply and the cost of electricity? What happens to the people who were working in the power plants? What about the people extracting and transporting the coal? What will you do with the old power plants?

They would obviously only close after the solar plants are built.
I couldn't give a fuck. Redundant jobs are redundant jobs.
I'm not going to hold back progress for a few people who can easily get other jobs.
Recycle them. Probably use most of the material for the solar plants.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

These are all questions that would take millions of dollars and years just to RESEARCH the proper solution, let alone implement it.

Lol. Wrong again. This is what the government leads you to believe, so that they can put off doing anything and raising your taxes, which is what all the morons hate most.
In reality, there is already a plan, developed by a group of scientists on how Australia could be run solely on solar power and wind power within 10 years.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Does enough of the population want to legalize drugs? Depending on what kind of system your country has, does federal law conflict with state/provincial law? How do you regulate the drugs? What do you do with all the law enforcement people and infrastructure who are currently fighting against drugs? What do you do with all the people who are incarcerated or otherwise currently being punished because of drugs? How will this affect international relations? How will this affect crime rates? How will this affect minors?

Actually, yes. Depending on what you call enough. 40% is enough in my books. I would just need to put out PROPER, CORRECT ad campaigns to convince a large majority.
Regulation outlined in my response to jarrhead.
You really can't seriously be asking that.... Tell them to go fight real crime. We don't have DEA here. If that's what you mean. For the drug taskforces, I would tell them to go back to the regular police force and fight real crime.
Let the prisoners go free. As long as they weren't violent offenders.
I don't care about international relations either. They're not gonna declare war over drug legalisation. Plus it may help them see their folly.
Crime rates will obviously drop dramatically and instantly.
What about minors? Won't somebody please think of the children?
Some will use drugs, some won't. The legal age to buy them would be 18.
Anyone caught buying and/or selling to minors would face jail.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

How will you get other politicians to agree with this? How will this affect the popular support of yourself and your party? How will you prevent the government from becoming elitist, as wealthy candidates will be able to pay for lavish campaigns whereas Joe Blow trying to run for office would be broke? What levels of government would this apply to?

I would be in a party where the rest of them agree with me. The Greens for instance.
It wouldn't. I see no reason how it could. Except make me/us more popular for not being corporate bitches who just want more money to pass laws.
Lavish campaigns would be illegal too. It's ridiculous. Millions, billions in America, spent on bullshit lies and propaganda.
Every level.

If this became problematic. Smaller parties would be able to get donations from the public. Not companies (although that would be hard to stop).

If none of this worked. I would make a law that states that if a political party receives donations from a company, they must declare it, publicly, on every pamphlet, tv advertisement, sign etc.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Most countries that want free health care already have it, but assuming your country doesn't...

Yeah, we do.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Do enough people want free health care? How will you pay for it? How will you provide it? What will happen to the private companies currently providing health care and the people they employ? Will the quality of health care you are able to provide be sufficient?

Pay for it with taxes, null question, fuck them, yes.
Private health insurance companies still exist here, you know? Because people want better health care.
So they pay more for it. IF THEY CAN AFFORD IT.
The ones who can't, and weren't getting healthcare anyway, CAN get it through public healthcare.
But it basically just means that if you have something which isn't major, you have to wait.
If your heart is coming out of your ear, you get the same medical treatment anywhere, regardless of insurance type.