Thread: Memory and the fickle expectation

Awesome discussion on memory! It's given me a lot to think about for sure.

Originally Posted by Occipitalred

But, my hang up is, there is never any need to stabilize the dream until we become lucid. My dreams can be plenty solid/stable/vivid when non-lucid. So, I'm thinking the main change when becoming lucid is the perspective has changed. The expectations have changed.

I thought I was focusing pretty good on all three aspects a lucid mindset Sageous describes but I see I have a lot to learn about memory still, and now you bring up expectation also which is for sure affecting me. This is a really interesting observation you bring up about non lucid dreams being stable and vivid. One of my longest running lucid dreaming goals is to have a really long lucid dream, the longest lucid I have had since joining dream views is around ten minutes of actual dream time. This has really frustrated me because I have had many non lucid dreams that seem to go on for hours!

What kind of training do you guys do around the area of expectation? Right now I have really just been focusing on prospective memory and affirmations, "I will be lucid tonight" and such.

Originally Posted by Occipitalred

Well, I don't notice my physical body for most parts in my dreams so I don't have that tug of war, but those are some nice thoughts

I just commented on this in my dream journal from last night. I had a sequence of dreams that where all first person, with me being directly involved in the plot, that where especially vivid and semi lucid. In many of my non lucid dreams I am like an observer, or if I am participating don't ever notice having a body or anything like that. I found it much easier to be semi lucid in a first person, with body, involved in dream plot type of dream that I think could turn into a DILD easily.

As I have been trying to ponder and practice a non dual perspective in my dreams I have been trying to imagine ways to be more involved with the plots of my dreams. To be more curious about the effect they are having on me, and I on them. I have yet to try and practice this in a lucid dream, but I am imagining feeling more connected and involved, both more lucid AND more involved in the dream.

I am mentioning these things here both because this discussion on memory prompted these thoughts, and I think I need to give more focus to develop memory practice and especially dream expectation to help develop a lucid mindset.

Originally Posted by Sangfoot

What kind of training do you guys do around the area of expectation? Right now I have really just been focusing on prospective memory and affirmations, "I will be lucid tonight" and such.

For me, I think my expectation training includes two parts:
1. Reflecting on my "beliefs" (Ex1. Do I believe DCs are real? Informing a DC they are not real, for example, is a sign you are treating them as a real person, otherwise you would feel no need to inform them of anything. This might result in the DC disagreeing with you and trying to convince you they are real. Ex2. Do I believe the dream is fickle (as discussed above). Etc.)
2. Visualisaton (I'll replay a lucid dream in my mind, correct some moves or think of new moves so that I'm more likely to think to act that way. Ex1. Visualize myself in a LD interacting with a DC, treating them not as a person but as an archetype, or a manifestation from my unconscious mind (where my unconscious mind is not a person) and really feeling it. Ex2. Reliving a dream that's breaking up and really feeling that I believe the dream is stable and seeing how I can even maintain the stability of my visualisation. Etc.)

Originally Posted by Sangfoot

I just commented on this in my dream journal from last night. I had a sequence of dreams that where all first person, with me being directly involved in the plot, that where especially vivid and semi lucid. In many of my non lucid dreams I am like an observer, or if I am participating don't ever notice having a body or anything like that. I found it much easier to be semi lucid in a first person, with body, involved in dream plot type of dream that I think could turn into a DILD easily.

I think it's because in a 3rd person perspective, we are more likely to be in an observatory mode than self-reflective (which we are more likely to be in a 1st person perspective). I'm not sure there is much to do here but practice moving back to yourself and back when watching TV or listening to other people or watching any kind of scene.