Nobody thought that were moons around Jupiter until Galileo first looked up in his telescope. Now everybody does. How could they have been there for him to observe if, according to 'consensus reality' is I understand it, they didn't even exist? |
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Last edited by Oneironaut Zero; 03-31-2010 at 01:20 AM.
Dream Journal: Dreamwalker Chronicles Latest Entry: 01/02/2016 - "Hallway to Haven" (Lucid)(Or see the very best of my journal entries @ dreamwalkerchronicles.blogspot)
Nobody thought that were moons around Jupiter until Galileo first looked up in his telescope. Now everybody does. How could they have been there for him to observe if, according to 'consensus reality' is I understand it, they didn't even exist? |
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Have you ever played a game like world of warcraft or whatever, and the build distance was set pretty low, so that you could see trees and landscapes coming into existence as you approach them? Those things were 'there' as a piece of information but not actually rendered as real until you arrived to observe them. The moons could have manifested in a similar way. |
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Art
The ability to happily respond to any adversity is the divine.
Dream Journal Shaman Apprentice Chronicles
Why are you going off topic? |
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Because UM didn't know about it until he read it but it had existed since Xaq posted it. |
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The idea of consensus reality doesn't really mean much. |
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Unless there are two people in the group, not that I see how that's relevant anyway, and not that I'm much bothered about it. |
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(Fixed a whoooole bunch of grammatical errors in that first post. Probably reads a lot better than before. ) |
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Dream Journal: Dreamwalker Chronicles Latest Entry: 01/02/2016 - "Hallway to Haven" (Lucid)(Or see the very best of my journal entries @ dreamwalkerchronicles.blogspot)
I don't know what you mean. |
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Last edited by Universal Mind; 03-31-2010 at 02:28 AM.
How do you know you are not dreaming right now?
I interpret this a little differently than most people here are. I find myself influenced by the writings of Kant to a pretty strong degree, and he argues that when we examine the world around us, we aren't really seeing things as they are, but only examining our perceptions of reality. Similar to what Plato argued, there is an "ideal" world of reality and then there is a different world of our perception of reality. This view is supported by quantum mechanics in that one cannot observe (as Kant puts it) "the thing in itself", we can only witness the interactions between things. |
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Last edited by Xaqaria; 04-02-2010 at 12:45 AM.
Art
The ability to happily respond to any adversity is the divine.
Dream Journal Shaman Apprentice Chronicles
Some Athenian philosophies questioned the same thing. One answer they found was that since individuals are the means of measurement, that individuals are the means of perception and in turn reality in subjective. Just food for thought I guess. |
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Drawing somewhat on both Oneironaut's and Xaqaria's last posts, and also on the teachings of the Buddha and enlightened beings who have followed him, I would say only that we often overestimate the degree to which our consensus--not only on the facts of our existence, but what constitutes valid grounds for establishing the facts of our existence,--constitutes a genuine reality. In other words, the objective is still subjective on a larger scale, regardless of our certainty that we have determined how large a scale could possibly exist, and we are virtually doomed to take what is only true on a higher order of subjectivity for objective reality. |
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If you have a sense of caring for others, you will manifest a kind of inner strength in spite of your own difficulties and problems. With this strength, your own problems will seem less significant and bothersome to you. By going beyond your own problems and taking care of others, you gain inner strength, self-confidence, courage, and a greater sense of calm.Dalai Lama
Wouldn't that mean we are in a vicious cycle of altering each other's perspective in a chain-like reaction to cultivate each other's own perspective? Taking this into account, what is the origin of perspective? It could be said each individual, but everyone has a mother, even mothers too. |
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Last edited by ArcanumNoctis; 04-02-2010 at 07:19 AM.
One can think of colors as an example. Color does not actually exist in the way we perceive it. It is no more than an assortment of different electromagnetic wavelengths that our eyes receive and send to the brain for interpretation. When looking at the sky, for instance, some organisms may be seeing what we call the color red. The intuitive concept of matter, of stuff, is an odd one as well. There is not so much stuff in matter as there is empty space. This illusion of there being something there is created again by a combination of the light that interacts with it that then comes into our eyes, and by the matter's further interaction with the physical world around it (gravitational forces and so on). These already subatomic pieces of stuff can further be broken down into smaller things that interact with each other in such a ways as to make it seem as if this whole subatomic particle is really full of stuff, when, again again, there is mostly empty space. The world we think is there is not really the world that is actually there, physically speaking. |
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Last edited by Invader; 04-02-2010 at 10:33 AM.
Consensus Reality, there so much you could say about it. While science can liberate us from consensus reality, like telling me my body right now is actually glowing and particles are constantly zipping right through me - it also creates a consensus reality with how it presents its information! |
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Me too! |
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Dannon, you preface your post with a contradictory premise. How can we all agree that there is an absolute reality if such a thing is necessarily inconceivable? To decide that there is an absolute reality is in itself a conception of such a reality. |
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Art
The ability to happily respond to any adversity is the divine.
Dream Journal Shaman Apprentice Chronicles
Whoa! Speak for yourself. |
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Last edited by The Cusp; 04-03-2010 at 11:40 PM.
OK, this is one of those things I guess I take for granted. I thought that we all thought that there is reality. If there is not reality, then why do we do reality checks? |
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Last edited by Dannon Oneironaut; 04-04-2010 at 01:26 AM.
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