I'm scared of hell

[Idolfan]

Hi guys. This is a pretty serious problem I've been having since December. It all started when I went on a trip to Krakow to see Auschwitz with my school. Before then my biggest problem was how I could form relationships when older; but now that doesn't bother me in the slightest. For those who don't know, Auschwitz is a really depressing place. It made me obsess over human suffering, to the state that I became paranoid and couldn't stop nightmares from playing in my head over and over. Coincidentally, I started to become obsessed with religion and Christianity just afterwards because I figured I'd give the God hypothesis a try. All of a sudden all of the things I had associated with God in the past (ie. HELL) came flooding back to me. I went through a period of extreme paranoia and depression around the new year, but I was perscribed some Prozac and at least now I'm not incapacitated anymore. I've looked up loads of material on the internet. As it turns out, I have no problem disregarding hell from a scriptural point of view. The evidence against it is actually astounding. What I have a problem with are the accounts of people such as Bill Wiese who claim to have seen and been to hell in OBEs and such. I know to many of you I sound weak minded but I'm absolutely terrified. I have mood swings now and sometimes I feel like killing myself. I just want to go home, not to heaven or hell. I'm looking for some serious advice on this, because I just can't shake it. I know that I can't believe in hell because if I do I'll go insane, but I can't convince myself that it's not real. Please reply. If you do believe in hell though, please don't bother for the sake of my own soul. I'm already on a spiritual road and I don't need anyone else to tell me about what they think is the right way. Thanks.

[Amethyst Star]

What frightens you so much right now? Are you afraid that you'll die and go to Hell? Are you afraid of others dying and going to Hell? Are you doubting whether or not you'll go to Heaven? You mentioned you associate God with Hell. Is there a reason that that is the first (or one of the first, I don't know) things you think of when you are contemplating God? Was it a prevaling idea when you started studying Christianity/religion? It's easy for focus to be placed on the negative, considering so many people (especially online) are anti-religion, or at least the most outspoken are. We as humans also naturally remember more negative experiences than positive and it's sometimes very difficult to remove a negative association with an object or idea. A person who grew up with an abusive father may have their entire concept of fathers spoiled and think that dads are nothing more than abusive, vindictive, perhaps drunk, evil people who are only looking out for themselves. You have to be convinced or convince yourself otherwise, often by changing the association. If you've had to go through counseling on this issue before, it might not be a bad idea to start talking to someone about it again. I hate to hear that you're thinking of death, even if you wouldn't go through with it. It's a dark place to be and I don't wish it on anyone. I'm a Christian and I'd be happy to talk with you more if you wish. I'm no scholar, but if you have questions I can at least share my experiences over the last 23 years of my life. Otherwise, you'll be in my thoughts and prayers and I hope things start looking up for you soon.

[mysterious dreamer]

Hell, the pop culture version of it, does not exist. Why? It was invented by the Catholics to scare mindless masses into joining their perversion of Christianity. There's really not much to be afraid of, when people die they go in direct presense of God. For most, the feeling would be heaven, but for some, it would be hell. And for those some, the real hell is here on earth. Because they are destroying themselves, their minds and their souls, more than anything else. I'm sorry if all this scares you, but I'm trying to say you won't go to hell if you don't fast, if you work on sunday or if you're not a Christian or don't go to church. Hell is reserved for the selected few.

[Ne-yo]

Mysterious Dreamer pretty much summed it up and it's all true. Hell is not a place where you go when you die. However i'm one of the individuals who says Hell is right here on Earth. Can't be afraid to go somewhere you're already at.

[Universal Mind]

Hell, the pop culture version of it, does not exist. Why? It was invented by the Catholics to scare mindless masses into joining their perversion of Christianity. And I will never forgive them for it. The fear of Hell had me freaked out way too many times when I was a kid, and even in being an atheist now, the irrational phobia and the damage have not gone away. It is a terrible teaching. What an awful thing to be telling people.

[paragon]

Please reply. If you do believe in hell though, please don't bother for the sake of my own soul. I'm already on a spiritual road and I don't need anyone else to tell me about what they think is the right way. Thanks. So what is the point of this thread then? The only thing I can say is - if you choose to convince yourself that there is no Hell because you can't face the reality (which you've more or less admitted); there is your problem. Denying Hell doesn't affect the reality one bit. The anxiety may be your conscience telling you that you are kidding yourself because you can't handle the truth. Acknowledging that it is true and then doing whatever is required to avoid it is the only way to set your conscience at ease.

[Jeff777]

Hell is a state of mind, not an actual place.

[Man of Shred]

since hell doesn't actually exist you have nothing to worry about.

[paragon]

since hell doesn't actually exist you have nothing to worry about. Oh, that's really helpful. That'll set his mind right at ease.

[Mes Tarrant]

since hell doesn't actually exist you have nothing to worry about. This.

[Delilah]

Jeff pretty much said it for me. Even considering OBEs and NDEs, I've come to believe Hell does exist, but as a state of mind. A good example of this is how (I can't remember where I've read it, but you'll have to forgive me for that) people in Western Countries generally experience pleasant, "reassuring" Near Death Experiences, compared to say... NDEs in China, which - generally - tend to be a sadder, emptier experience. These are two different places with different cultures, different state of minds. Right now no-one really knows any of this for sure, but it's really what I believe right now. Basically you create your own heaven or hell.

[Photolysis]

Oh, that's really helpful. That'll set his mind right at ease. It would if he believes it. Though that of course is unlikely given that deeply ingrained beliefs are hard to change. What I have a problem with are the accounts of people such as Bill Wiese who claim to have seen and been to hell in OBEs and such. If I said to you "I had a dream where I went to hell", the chances are you'd say something like "but that was just a dream, it's not real". I'd say the same thing here; OBEs are hallucinations (and I'd speculate that they're simply vivid dreams in which the person is self-aware but doesn't recognise it's a dream). But of course, it doesn't sound anywhere as dramatic when put like that, does it? Doesn't quite pack the same punch as a melodramatic story designed to scare people. I know that I can't believe in hell because if I do I'll go insane, but I can't convince myself that it's not real. Unfortunately there isn't much choice here. Either you believe hell exists and deal with the ramifications of that, or you manage to get past your lingering doubts and accept hell as a fantasy, and realise that the people who claim to have been there are either lying, or deluded people with an inability to distinguish fantasy from reality. Incidentally, hundreds of religions will be condeming people to hell. Literally everyone on the planet will be believed to be destined for hell by some religion or another. For example, a Christian will be destined for the Mulsim version of hell ... not to mention the hells from ancient religions such as the Nordic ones (which gave Hell it's name actually, but I digress). But this means nothing to our Christian because he doesn't believe those ones exist. It's an empty threat. The rational thing would be to treat the Christian version of hell the same. You dismiss many stories about other Hells, why could you not do the same with stories about the Christian hell? What an awful thing to be telling people. And it's one reason I despise religion. EDIT: Spelling

[Idolfan]

Thanks guys. I'm getting better but I wish so deeply that it was out of my mind. I have a friend at school who is Catholic and she said she believes that if you don't repent from your sins then you go to hell. I asked her how she gets to sleep at night and she just said, "Because I know I'm going to go to heaven". I guess different people just take the concept differently. Personally, I don't understand why God would expect us to grow up in a world with that horrific teaching behind us all the time. I am finding it much easier to tell myself that these testimonies were just hallucinations, but it's not all gone yet. One idea of coping I came up with today was to simply say that I don't care anymore. If there is no hell then I'm fine and if there is one... I just couldn't believe in it anyway so why bother? It's strange. Even though I've spent all day with hell off my mind I can still come home and have this gut feeling. You know what I mean.

[Mes Tarrant]

Photolysis, very Richard Dawkins-esque arguments. And they are spot on! I'd recommend watching some of his vids to the OP, for his ability to use logic to dispute harmful beliefs (among other things).

[Naiya]

Personally I stopped believing in Christian hell, but the fear stayed with me for a while afterwards. This video is a pretty neat way of explaining why no rational, sane God would send you to hell. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaL7CkQaQpU&NR=1

[Black_Eagle]

Screw people's testimonies.

[Photolysis]

I asked her how she gets to sleep at night and she just said, "Because I know I'm going to go to heaven". I've yet to meet one religious person who believed in the concept of heaven/hell who didn't think they were going to heaven. As an example, the extremist Muslims who have tortured and killed innocent citizens. In their minds, they believe they are destined for paradise. To other Muslims, these people are extremely evil and destined for hell. However our extremist Muslims pick and choose their scripture to fit their beliefs and in their own minds, they are not in the wrong at all. Here's a nice nugget for your friend. Many other people "know" she's going to hell for being an infidel (to them). In fact, more religions and people would think so, than the amount of people/religions who think she's going to heaven, and with the exact same conviction and arrogance. What makes her right and everyone else wrong? If she says "I have faith" then she would be therefore admitting she doesn't know and has no reason other than her own deluded personal convictions to think so; faith is by definition belief with out evidence after all. She also can't claim to know God which is supposedly unknowable. Assuming you dare to mention these points for a second, one of two things should happen. The first is the simple "I have faith, end of" answer. The second would be some kind of bizarre ad-hoc rationalization which makes no sense ultimately, but in her mind consitutes good reasoning. Personally, I don't understand why God would expect us to grow up in a world with that horrific teaching behind us all the time. That's where logic comes in. If hell exists as depicted, God is the most evil thing imaginable, giving out infinite punishment for a finite 'crime'. Therefore contradicting the "all-loving" aspect. At it's core, the beliefs are contradictory. As Dawkins also points out, if hell were definitely proven to be real, the punishment would not need to be severe for it to be a deterrent. For instance, imagine the punishment for living a bad life was 100 years of extreme boredom before you got in to heaven (after being 'cleansed' or 'saved' or whatever). I'd personally want to avoid that, despite what is compared to the traditional hell, a very benign punishment. Obviously there are lighter punishments but you get the point. Our criminal justice system in the western world does not melt out infinite punishment for a finite crime. Neither does it immediately torture and execute people for performing the most trivial crimes - there are graded punishments. The mere idea that a supposedly intelligent, compassionate being would act in such a way is absurd. And let's not get into the argument how god would be responsible for people's gifts of critical/rational thinking and logic etc if he existed, therefore being directly responsible for people rejecting the 'evidence' for him. What essentially would amount to the most unfair case of entrapment ever performed. Even though I've spent all day with hell off my mind I can still come home and have this gut feeling. You know what I mean. I understand. Getting over such things is not easy. Photolysis, very Richard Dawkins-esque arguments. Some of my points are taken from his arguments directly, I just extrapolated a few as well

[really]

Idolfan, what is the main reason you are afraid of hell? I have a friend at school who is Catholic and she said she believes that if you don't repent from your sins then you go to hell. I asked her how she gets to sleep at night and she just said, "Because I know I'm going to go to heaven". Excuse me if you're religious, but I'd advise not to worry about religion and dogma. The essential spiritual point is that you do not go about life intentionally creating hell for others, because it will come back to you. Do not grieve over "sins," but show a decent regret, learn and move on. Really, a "sin" is just a religious term for a bad deed, but it is often over emphasized to the point where a follower may create paranoia and extreme guilt in order to avoid it, paradoxically forming an anxiety to strive for a good purpose. Nevertheless, beside metaphorical speaking such as "going to heaven" or "burning in hell", they are simply states of being. Heaven is an enlightened unification of bliss and understanding, whereas hell as the world of "darkness", is mental and spiritual agony of unimaginable suffering. These are subjective terms and cannot be proven, because they're not "out there" or tangible. I guess different people just take the concept differently. Personally, I don't understand why God would expect us to grow up in a world with that horrific teaching behind us all the time. God doesn't really expect anything, otherwise He would not be God, but a mere human. The personification of God can understandably be confusing and misleading. It helps to see that God is merely Love itself, and Love cannot teach anything other than what it is. I am finding it much easier to tell myself that these testimonies were just hallucinations, but it's not all gone yet. You have to move beyond the fear of hell by powerfully admitting you are not worthy of its existence. If you at least show love, for yourself and others, you are already far from it. Again, if you love at all, you do not need to do anything to avoid hell, and simply be, without fear. One idea of coping I came up with today was to simply say that I don't care anymore. If there is no hell then I'm fine and if there is one... I just couldn't believe in it anyway so why bother? Yes, on the other hand, it can be helpful also that you forget about hell altogether and "go with the flow." Forget about guilt and sinning too, and live happily anyway. Love, and be done with that.

[The Cusp]

Emannuel Swedenborg, who wrote a book called Heaven and Hell about 200 years ago after visiting them in dream states, said that God is infinite love and compassion, and a God of infinite love and compassion would never throw anyone into hell. It the people who turn their backs on him and gladly cast themselves into the abyss. That analogy made me feel a whole lot better about the whole idea, and about what I need to do to avoid hell. I don't take that to mean turning my back on god as some magical person, but in choosing to let go of selfish pursuits that hurt others in the process, or rising above that. Clinging to those things selfishly are what will drag you down into hell. I've had dreams that match Swedenborg's description of the hell, and several other people have written books with matching accounts. Including the woman who runs this site. http://www.outofbodytravel.org/ I've spoken to her, and we're in complete agreement with what the hell realms are and how they work. She takes the angel and demon stuff more literally than me, but still. The hell realms are a mind set, a trap of circular logic. Like a tooth dream gone bad, you focus completely on the damaged teeth and all you get in return is more gory tooth detail. A hell realm is any one of those selfish habits you can't give up, won't give up, cling to desperately. It becomes your whole world, your precious, and the entire hell realm is shaped around that one desire. These desires are brutish and simple in nature, with a limited number of related elements that are usually common for everyone, which is what makes it look the same for everyone. The good news is, it's not somebody else that decides weather you go to heaven or hell. The bad news is it's up to you.

[Idolfan]

Thanks for all your support, it's been very helpful, however Black_Eagle, the link is broked. I have a friend who's proper into Swedenborg but I haven't looked up about him myself, I might. I'm proud to say that I'm getting a lot better. Mainly due to other pressures in my life being taken off, but what I've found is that it's not just my thoughts which put me in a bad mood, but being in a bad mood also contributes to fearful thoughts. So it's a cycle which I guess can be broken either way. Ta you guys!

[Snowkitten]

Don't worry..hell doesn't exist. You have your whole life ahead of you and when you die you'll be reincarnated just like everyone else (well this is my view anyway). It's all good.

[nerve]

you're in hell right now, you are putting yourself there. your fear of hell torments you. if you really want to avoid going to "hell" when you die, you should realize that where you are now is not the hell that you fear (right?) then, find the right questions, and get busy asking them. ask all the questions, and eventually you will find the answers, or more likely they will find you. have patience. if you believe that the answers are out there, then you will get them, in time. and trust me, you don't have to read the whole bible, or huge volumes cover to cover. the answers are actually very simple, and so they get overlooked. and this is just my opinion, but I don't believe there is a line that you cross, "saved" or "unsaved." there are too many people out there, in too many different situations, with too many different backgrounds and histories...everythings stratified. if you ask me, as long as you want to be a good person, and you aren't out to deliberately hurt people, you know in your heart that you want to live your life being as selfless as possible...well, that is enough. we all "sin", we are all ripe for addiction...we all make mistakes, even the most devout christians. as long as you really aren't trying to hurt people, I don't believe there is any way that God, the universe, the cosmos, karma, whatever, would send you to hell. have I made any sense? help at all? :)

[Idolfan]

you're in hell right now, you are putting yourself there. your fear of hell torments you. if you really want to avoid going to "hell" when you die, you should realize that where you are now is not the hell that you fear (right?) then, find the right questions, and get busy asking them. ask all the questions, and eventually you will find the answers, or more likely they will find you. have patience. if you believe that the answers are out there, then you will get them, in time. and trust me, you don't have to read the whole bible, or huge volumes cover to cover. the answers are actually very simple, and so they get overlooked. and this is just my opinion, but I don't believe there is a line that you cross, "saved" or "unsaved." there are too many people out there, in too many different situations, with too many different backgrounds and histories...everythings stratified. if you ask me, as long as you want to be a good person, and you aren't out to deliberately hurt people, you know in your heart that you want to live your life being as selfless as possible...well, that is enough. we all "sin", we are all ripe for addiction...we all make mistakes, even the most devout christians. as long as you really aren't trying to hurt people, I don't believe there is any way that God, the universe, the cosmos, karma, whatever, would send you to hell. have I made any sense? help at all? You do make sense. But it's not just me I'm worried about, it becomes all the other's around me. I also don't understand how I could possibly be in heaven if I knew that there was even one soul in hell. I'm glad to say that I'm getting a lot better though. I've decided that I don't want to ask any more questions on hell. I don't want to know whether it exists or not. If I knew that hell was real then it would just make me go insane, so there's really no other option I can take. The resilience some people seem to have to such extreme concepts is astounding. Now it's just a matter of focusing my religious obsession towards something else... like heaven?

[shroom]

One of my phobias is demons. Not the horny kind with a pitchfork, but the kind that are like voids of anything positive that spread like blood through cloth. IE a story about 'the Rake' is a perfect example. Seriously bud, counselling is a must. It may help you find out the root of your problem, seems to me that your visit to Auschwitz was a catalyst. Once the root of the problem is resolved you'll most likely see an amazing improvement.

[Idolfan]

I can notice myself getting better. One of my 'side' problems (but is obviously related) is that my mind doesn't feel free. I used to be able to go for long walks and just think, fantasise and theorise about anything I wanted. However now, stupid thoughts come into my head like, "What if this is the DEVIL trying to tempt you along a different path?" or "What if he's USING you to try to TEMPT others?" Many of you might think that's ridiculous, but that is the extent of my paranoia. It's sad, because I just don't feel free. I've knocked, but the door just hasn't been opened to me. My phobia of hell is getting less and less every day, but this fear still persists. Just to update, but thanks for all the replies, they have helped. Ryan