Thread: Atheism leads to Immoral Behavior

Staff have and will be issuing infractions for misbehaviour in this thread.

This is a note to anyone who might want to jump on the bandwagon.

Originally Posted by ClouD

Staff have and will be issuing infractions for misbehaviour in this thread.

This is a note to anyone who might want to jump on the bandwagon.

Great success for the staff.


On-topic: Show me a single shred of evidence that the survey isn't flawed.

I see that the survey lists sins, but the title of this thread mentions immoral behavior.

Shall we first come to an agreement on what constitutes immoral?

I would describe immoral behavior as molesting children, discriminating against gays, women and minorities, genocide, murder, oppression, manipulation, starting wars, and general infringement upon human rights. All examples of what has been done in the holy name of religion.

And Atheists are evil for fornicating and drinking?

Interestingly, if you look at what society as a whole considers to be especially immoral behaviour, i.e. crimes, you find that atheists make up a tiny fraction of the prison population, in a proportion far below that of the atheist population.

10-15% of the US population are atheist, depending on which source you use, yet as of 1997, only 0.2% of the prison population were atheists.

That doesn't necessarily mean atheism means you are more moral of course (correlation doesn't imply causation - I'd speculate it's caused by atheists on average being more intelligent), but it certainly doesn't support the idea that atheism leads to immoral behaviour.

But this is of course what happens when you deal with facts, instead of propaganda for a self-serving agenda.

oh my... (@topic)

somethings that i see as immoral, you may see as moral... for example, i try not to swear... kind of hard not to when you stub your toe or hit your finger with the hammer but hey, it happens... I see using fowl language as immoral but here is the kicker... it is immoral in my personal life. If i saw you walking down the street and heard swear words coming out of your mouth, would i think you were immoral? No i wouldn't Now if my wife started swearing or my child started swearing, yes i would see that as immoral.

When i say something is immoral, it is immoral to me personally. i do not have the right to judge anyone and i do not have the right to say that an athiest or anyone else is immoral. I believe that you hate the sin but love the sinner. Would i be showing any love if I was judging?

People writing out well thought out, reasoned responses on this thread are wasting their time. Kingermann wont be replying, and if he does it will be with endless amounts of scripture.

Why is swearing immoral?

Originally Posted by kingerman

Sin Evangelicals Atheists
Viewing pornography 12% 50%
Profanity in public 16% 60%
Gambling 2% 7%
Gossiping 4% 34%
Sex with non-spouse 3% 7%
Retaliation 7% 11%
Drunkenness 0.5% 33%
Lying 1% 7%
Average 6% 29%

Oh my non existing god! What a fascinating list of SINS! Can this way of thinking be any more grotesque? Try with this instead:

molesting children, discriminating against gays, women and minorities, genocide, murder, oppression, manipulation, starting wars, and general infringement upon human rights. All examples of what has been done in the holy name of religion.

Do a little survey on that.

I'm such a sinner

OP: "People who don't believe our silly rules make sense are less likely to follow those rules."

Orly?

Just do not feed the troll...

Quick everyone enroll into one of these, maybe then we can finally be saved.

Edit:Apparently the water of the lord is Nestle........buying Poland springs or Dasani makes you a sinner.

Originally Posted by davej

somethings that i see as immoral, you may see as moral... for example, i try not to swear... kind of hard not to when you stub your toe or hit your finger with the hammer but hey, it happens... I see using fowl language as immoral but here is the kicker... it is immoral in my personal life. If i saw you walking down the street and heard swear words coming out of your mouth, would i think you were immoral? No i wouldn't Now if my wife started swearing or my child started swearing, yes i would see that as immoral.

When i say something is immoral, it is immoral to me personally. i do not have the right to judge anyone and i do not have the right to say that an athiest or anyone else is immoral. I believe that you hate the sin but love the sinner. Would i be showing any love if I was judging?

Let's see how moral you are DaveJ when you're laughing at me in hell.

Well it's heaven? So it HAS to be happy! Or what, does God just like erase it from your memory or something (even though the Holy Spirit is supposed to teach you the truth of all things).

Originally Posted by DeeryTheDeer

I would describe immoral behavior as molesting children, discriminating against gays, women and minorities, genocide, murder, oppression, manipulation, starting wars, and general infringement upon human rights. All examples of what has been done in the holy name of religion.

And Atheists are evil for fornicating and drinking?

Damn I better go Athiest since those are obviously not Christian things

WTF, lol

I have seen more "Christians" that are bad, in relation to the Atheists that are bad... well, I've only met 3-4 Atheists, lol. One is one of my best friends in school, but I don't think he's ever done anything as bad as some "Christian" people have

What you're labled as has no reflection of your actions. And as we've all seen, people can change religion, but you really can't change who you really are. You might as well be black, or Asian. you can't change that, but that doesn't specifically tell people your personality

So, and I a bad person because I go to church maybe 3 times a yr? No. I don't need to go to church to be a good person. I don't need some guy to tell me what's right and wrong. I don't need a silly book to tell me how I should live. Whether you're Christian (Catholic, Prod, Baptist, Orthodox), Muslum, Jewish... we all have the same One God (he just has different names). So why the hell can't we get along?! Because we're force fed this garbage that OUR religion is the right one

God accepts everyone... even those who don't believe, I think

Personally, I'm agnostic. Mostly due to the reasons above. I believe there's a higher being, but at the same time, I rule on the side of science because it actually proves things. Religion jsut goes off assumptions and vagueness. But because I'm agnostic does that mean that I have no morals. I very much disagree. I have a lot of morals that I keep. I really try not to swear "to be cool". I find that there's really no point (Unless I'm mad, then it feels good, lol). I drink on occasion, but not to excess. I did once and got sick and it wasn't fun (No clue why people would keep doing that if you get sick and throw up). I have great friends. I can make people laugh. I have morals and standards that I adhear to. So even though I have all those things, just because I'm agnostic puts me on the same plane as Athiests? WAJ. Religious zelots have notihng more to do on their time other than to condemn people for how their labled not how they live their lives. I know MLK Jr's speech was on racism, but shouldn't it also carry over into religion. "Judge people not by the content of their [religion], but by the content of their character."

I think that's enough of my rant, lol

Kingerman, explain to me why the percentage of Christians who are in prison is so much higher than the percentage of atheists who are in prison.

Also, tell me what book gives you a moral foundation for eating and for mowing your yard.

Check these out...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdSiLhW0Zn8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8mzz8xt6AU

All this shows me is that Atheists are more willing to be honest about their personal lives rather than lie about them in a survey...

Originally Posted by Abra

Those results show that atheists are more likely to report that they participate in "morally questionable*" behaviors.

Christians don't count the stuff they've already been forgiven for so it's not fair.

Get out of here. Who are you and your Evangelical friends to judge non-religious people as being immoral, barbaric people? How dare those people do behaviour surveys on people to promote their drunken, hypocritical ideology and to prove it's superiority over other ideologies?

Don't get me wrong; there are many Christians who practice their religion in a just, upright, loving and humble way. Their religion is something that drives them to behave kind, upright, honost, caring and loving. It is what THEY make of their religion. I know many of them. They don't force their beliefs on me and respect my philosophical ideas when they differ from their own. Humble.

You see what it is with Evangelical ones like you; You hold on so firmly to that book called the bible in order to be moral, responsible and decent people.
I don't need no book to teach me morality. It's allready in me. It's called intuition. All I have to do is follow it and not be distracted from it by my ego.
In fact if you feel so strongly that you need the bible to be a good, decent, morally responsible person you might have quite a problem.

Please stop shoving your beliefs down other people's throat. It's not polite. And don't judge people's morality. If any"one" is to judge that it is God and certainly not you and your Evangelical friends...






I believe the best way to get closer to God, is to make contact with God, feel God, Live God, Be God. Reading texts and hearing priests preaching God's word isn't going to get you an inch closer to God.God is Collective awareness. Within our Individual Awareness there is a part that is pure, moral, mindfull, aware, blissfull and divine.
It watches everything we do, knows everything we think and passes moral judgement on all we do, say, think and desire. It is sometimes called the Guilty Conscious. Sometimes it's called Intuition or Instinct.

This is God. God is in you. And the Church and the Bible are leading you away from God. They distract you away from the inner sanctum within yourself where God resides, to instead go search for God outside of yourself in literature and preachings.

Learn to listen to/feel your intuition to get in touch with God. Don't read another word of Religious literature. Don't attend church preachings anymore.
Cause believe me God can perfectly speak for himself. Just get into a meditation trance/Deep Prayer, search within your Soul and find your intuition. There you will find the one true will of God that no book or priest could ever teach you.
I mean c'mon, where else do you expect to find the divine moral guidance of God?

Originally Posted by kingerman

Sin Evangelicals Atheists
Viewing pornography 12% 50%
Profanity in public 16% 60%
Gambling 2% 7%
Gossiping 4% 34%
Sex with non-spouse 3% 7%
Retaliation 7% 11%
Drunkenness 0.5% 33%
Lying 1% 7%
Average 6% 29%

I fail to see the immorality of these acts. They are harmless, and can hardly be considered a "sin." I spy more than one item on that list that is actually beneficial to a moral society. FAIL.

These results show that atheists/agnostics participate in morally questionable behaviors to a much greater degree than evangelical Christians

No, they don't.

Although, in theory, atheists can lead moral lives, the absence of an absolute moral foundation probably leads to moral drifting over time. This phenomenon also occurs in Christians who abandon church and Christian fellowship.It seems unlikely that there are genetic or other demographic factors that account for the differences in behavior.

Studies have shown time and again that religion is not necessary to a strong moral code. Some studies even show that those without religion are more likely to lead moral lives.

Still think Atheism Doesn't Lead to Immoral Behavior?

Yes.

Idolfan, who says you are going to hell? who says I would be laughing at you if you went to hell? Certainly not I. I don't see hell or anyone going to hell as a laughing matter. Please do not assume things.

On the website:

"The younger generation was more than twice as likely as all other adults to engage in behaviors considered morally inappropriate by traditional standards
...
The Barna Group, Ltd. (which includes its research division, The Barna Research Group) conducts primary research, produces media resources pertaining to spiritual development, and facilitates the healthy spiritual growth of leaders, children, families and Christian ministries. "
+ Your Link


"The Barna Group offers a range of customized research, resources and training to serve churches, non-profits, businesses and leaders.
...
The company provides primary research; printed resources; leadership development; spiritual training; and church facilitation and enhancement. We seek to use our strengths in partnership with organizations and entrepreneurs to be a catalyst in moral, social, and spiritual transformation. We accomplish these outcomes by providing vision, information, strategy, evaluation and resources. "
+http://www.barna.org/about

Your own link proves its own bias.

You ask me for peer reviewed and scientific journals and then you postulate arguments like this?

You are a hypocrite.

~

Originally Posted by evildoctor

5. Man has the right to kill those who would thwart these rights.

I might mention it's important to remember other people have the right to kill you too. That's my philosophical point of view on moral matters - you can do anything you like, but you've got to bear in mind that so can others to you.

What gets me the most about this is that retaliation has been considered a sin. God is the absolute moral authority right? God's the best a retaliating. If you don't act like he tells you too, you burn in eternal fire. Or he might just send a giant flood to kill everybody? Or kick you out of paradise for eating an apple? How about ordering genocide and infanticide because the population of the city are "idol worshippers."
How about gambling with our lives? You only go to heaven if your a Christian, but you sir have been born into a family of atheists who indocrinate you into atheism, or may be a family of Buddhists. So God's a gambler and a "retaliater".
Since he's moral authority here, maybe we should change the sins eh?

Originally Posted by davej

Idolfan, who says you are going to hell? who says I would be laughing at you if you went to hell? Certainly not I. I don't see hell or anyone going to hell as a laughing matter. Please do not assume things.

Heaven is absolute bliss and positivity. You can't be in heaven and not "laugh" at hell. If you are able to be sad in heaven, you would be experiencing hell in heaven, which is a contradiction. The only way around this is to change the soul in such a way it can experience heaven - which is unfair because the real you won't get to heaven or hell for that matter; if the real soul is inherently evil - which is the same as changing the soul and it being unfair, illogical; or if you live with the contradictory nature of those beliefs, in which case there is no point of discussing it with logic, which is obvious by now.