Thread: Origins

Yeah nice one. Basically the creation can in no way be taken as a logical argument for God.

And if there's no evidence then there's no reason to beleive it's true.

You know I read a good book that states that all dualistic arguments are actually fundamentally the same . And that the same solution for one, is the same solution for the other.

The example it gave was between prolifers and prochoicers. After the two had a heated debate, the author of the book now asked the two to come up with a solution together. The solution that both parties agreed upon was "That every child should be wanted and loved!". Now that both parties could agree that this is what they fundamentally want, rather than arguing to or for abortion - the conversation changed. How do we ensure every child is wanted and loved? Now the two parties can converse like human beings and actually come up with something productive then the same endless spiraling debates!

Watch a materialistic atheist go at it with a fundamental christian - and after a while you can't tell who is who!

That would be an amazing thing for the Universe to come from nothing. But I simply can't imagine how that is even possible. The very essence that created the Universe, whether you call it the GREAT SINGULARITY or God, either or is fine, must have always existed. Even you believe the death of a universe created the singularity, even that universe would need the same singularity to give it birth!

And thinking about either is just as amazing. Can you imagine? That we all come from this singularity that always was? Just as we are all sourced from this singularity, so to has God been described the single source of all. No seriously! When ever I get a chance to learn about the singularity and how it eventually became all that we are, its amazing. This is divine stuff here!

I tell you, spirituality and science are looking and observing the SAME phenomenon just from two different perspectives. We can continue arguing to or for God endlessly to no avail, or we can all accept we are simply observing and reflecting the same SOURCE from different perspectives. And the biggest difference is whether or not you see the source as being conscious or not.

But we do all have a source and we all share the same source! Can't we at least talk about what we share?

Originally Posted by juroara

That would be an amazing thing for the Universe to come from nothing. But I simply can't imagine how that is even possible. The very essence that created the Universe, whether you call it the GREAT SINGULARITY or God, either or is fine, must have always existed. Even you believe the death of a universe created the singularity, even that universe would need the same singularity to give it birth!

Isn't this just restating the stuff said in the OP comic.

I'm still struggling with a fact that I just learned/finally understood last night, which is that the atoms we are made of are essentially condensed light from the big bang. Holy. Fucking. Shit.

Originally Posted by Carôusoul

Isn't this just restating the stuff said in the OP comic.

Essentially, but sometimes the nuances of a certain situation escape people (like myself), so I'm glad juroara posted what she did. Otherwise, I would have only been left with some vague sense of something. Now I have a concrete idea and some other nice perspectives.

Originally Posted by CanceledCzech

I'm still struggling with a fact that I just learned/finally understood last night, which is that the atoms we are made of are essentially condensed light from the big bang. Holy. Fucking. Shit.

Spoiler for spoiler:

You are made of condensed big bang

Originally Posted by Carôusoul

Spoiler for spoiler:

You are made of condensed big bang

So beautiful ;_;

Originally Posted by Carôusoul

You are made of condensed big bang

Is that a sexual innuendo?

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Is that a sexual innuendo?

It may well be.

Originally Posted by Carôusoul

Isn't this just restating the stuff said in the OP comic.

I agree with the original post, if that's what you mean!

Originally Posted by juroara

I agree with the original post, if that's what you mean!

I've got my eye on you, son.

You know, this problem arose once in a thread a long time back. The whole "Where did the big bang come from?" thing came up, and eventually we had to come to an agreement:

No matter what anybody believes, in the beginning there is something that exists without an origin.

Although, I would have to say there is slight difference in the nonphysical God existing forever, and the physical matter of our universe existing forever. Creationists don't believe that matter existed forever. They believe God created the physical realm; however, God always did exist.

An interesting note: My sister is learning Hebrew so she can read the original Hebrew Bible, and in the first verse of Genesis that English translators made into "In the beginning" is actually closer to "In a beginning"

Nonetheless, good point Invader. This should be stickied.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Although, I would have to say there is slight difference in the nonphysical God existing forever, and the physical matter of our universe existing forever. Creationists don't believe that matter existed forever. They believe God created the physical realm; however, God always did exist.

Hm... that does seem like it might be an important distinction... it also makes me think "what is god?" I don't believe that question was ever answered for me (not that I'm looking to have it answered right now, especially in this thread.)

Originally Posted by Noogah

An interesting note: My sister is learning Hebrew so she can read the original Hebrew Bible, and in the first verse of Genesis that English translators made into "In the beginning" is actually closer to "In a beginning"

Hey, I HIGHLY respect this. Tell your sister that someone on the internet gives her mad props. (Also how old is she? And if she's around 20 yrs. old, is she seeing anyone?)

Originally Posted by Noogah

Nonetheless, good point Invader. This should be stickied.

No.

Originally Posted by CanceledCzech

it also makes me think "what is god?"

Well, that's a rather broad and unspecific question. If you could elaborate on it, I might make a thread on the subject.

Originally Posted by CanceledCzech

Tell your sister that someone on the internet gives her mad props.

Yeah, I'll tell her. Actually, there is a book called "Biblical Hebrew" that teaches you Hebrew necessary to read the original Bible. Like English, Hebrew has advanced since the age when the Bible was written. I intend to learn it as well, once I'm satisfied with my Japanese.

No.

Was joking.

Originally Posted by CanceledCzech

I'm still struggling with a fact that I just learned/finally understood last night, which is that the atoms we are made of are essentially condensed light from the big bang. Holy. Fucking. Shit.

Freaky, right? Trapped energy, basically. Spooky, no?

this point was covered in Dan Barker's godless, I don't know if you've heard of it but it's actually a pretty good book.

I mean, doubtless it has been covered before, that's just the last thing I remember reading that addressed and covered it well.

nevertheless I enjoyed your little illustration. c:

Originally Posted by Mario92

Freaky, right? Trapped energy, basically. Spooky, no?

No. That's really not spooky.

Originally Posted by Carôusoul

No. That's really not spooky.

Nah. Just unrealistic.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Nah. Just unrealistic.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Originally Posted by Carôusoul

You have no idea what you're talking about.

I actually have a fairly good understanding of your theory.

Originally Posted by Noogah

I actually have a fairly good understanding of your theory.

What's my theory?

Originally Posted by Carôusoul

What's my theory?

I presume you side with Evolutionists. Either way, I don't believe you are a Creationist, or a Christian.

Originally Posted by Noogah

I presume you side with Evolutionists. Either way, I don't believe you are a Creationist, or a Christian.

What does evolution have to do with the big bang?

Originally Posted by Catbus

What does evolution have to do with the big bang?

+1

Broham, if you take matter and throw it together with anti-matter, you get pure energy; it is all converted perfectly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimatter

Nuclear weapons convert a small amount of matter to pure energy...according to the laws of physics, if matter and energy were separate entities, then this would not be possible in the slightest, but it happens.

Noogah, you have no idea what you are talking about; trust me.

Originally Posted by Catbus

What does evolution have to do with the big bang?

Noogah, you have no idea what you are talking about; trust me.

Uh, funny thing was, I never mentioned big bang. Not once. And yes, I do understand what I'm talking about. Maybe not as well as you do, but enough to grasp the theory, that's for sure.

I understand perfectly well that the Big Bang is not directly correlated with Evolution, and that the two theories can be seperated. However, most Evolutionists I know also believe in the Big Bang.