Thread: hypnagogia experiments

Hi Everyone
I know this is a lucid dreaming forum but i'm not very good at lucid dreaming but since I was a child i've been experimenting with hypnagogia, inducing images, and keeping them going, creating my imaginary body and learning to control it and too many other things. I've found that hypnagogia is a fascinating and complex field which does have a rules system and of course it conjuncts quite readily into dreaming and especially lucid dreams (but there is some kind of threshold that I haven't been able to cross).
On the main my experiments in hypnagogia are based on the premise of how to have vivid images and how to induce them at any time. That's what i've been working on since I was really little. Just about every night I would watch a hypnagogic movie and over the years i've developed quite a few techniques to create and guide the HI.

So I will explain a bit about how I see HI and perhaps other can tell me if this matches their experiences and what they think. Firstly I tend to see the visual space, which is connected with the optic nerve (as opposed to the active visualization space in which you can create anything but it probably won't move on its own) as a three dimensional block made up of many invisible planes, a hypnagogic show can exist on any of these different planes at the same time which creates interference so its necessary to understand the three dimensionality and be able to focus on only plane at a time.
To me I find hypnagogia a balance as there are many alternative possibilities but they must all be kept in check. For example it is possible control the images by simply feeding conscious messages into the stream. Like for example if you see a shape that looks vaguely like a vase I would think 'look at that vase' then it becomes more vase like then 'oh no, the vase is falling over' and sure enough the vase will fall over but what I discovered from this active controlling is that true hypnagogia is 'alive' it moves on its own volition and if the control is too conscious then it 'dies', it won't move on its own anymore. So there is this threshold between active visualization (like meditative visualization) and hypnagogia. But the lines blur considerable, for example visualize yourself standing in a grassy field, I like to look at my hands first then at the rest of my body, try to position my point of consciousness somewhere in the vicinity of the eyes, then move around a bit, wave your hands, clapping is good, trying to feel the texture of the palms, after this initial warm-up I then see the hand and arm as a suit and then shove my own hand into it like a long glove. That will increase stimulation. Ok then imagine that there is a soccer ball on the ground in front of you and chances are that suddenly your imaginary self will start playing with the ball, without your say so, in fact it can be difficult to stop. Or if you are working with the hands image that you are holding a snake and then watch the snake suddenly come to life. I can only speculate why this would be but it seems that there is some kind of preprogrammed series of actions that immediately take effect in certain situations. But again this crosses the line from active to hypnagogic events.
What is really interesting is the attempt to increase resolution, because a lot of my experiments have been under low resolution but as lucid dreamers will testify as well it is possible to get the resolution so high as to become like super-real. So real that it makes ordinary life like seem totally boring. In defining these super-real events I would say its like 5 dimensional because it has the basic three, plus time and the 5th is that the viewer feels connected to all the parts of the display in a visual, tactile, emotional symbiosis and yes, needless to say it is really really cool. They are also really hard to get to happen. I've only had about 3 sr's in H.I. and I remember all three as clear as day, they don't fade away really. One of them that I had was some kind of huge demon's face surrounded by fire and it looked right at me before consuming me with flames, I snapped right awake, I really thought I was in hell, I could feel the fire.
So how to increase resolution? One thing that I discovered is that it is possible to clean the viewing planes and this has increased generally clarity greatly. Also it is possibly to dispel light-noise. Light noise is I think the biggest reason for low resolution. But there is still plenty I don't understand about light noise, I figure it comes from outside and its some kind of impression on the optic nerve, so even in dark rooms its possible to have some, but sometimes the HI is completely basked in white light which completely destroys resolution. It could just be that there is a light source coming from a particular direction (like a crack of light from under the door) and for some reason that gets amplified. I can't seem to fix that yet.
Also I can't easily W.I.L.D from an H.I state, I think i've done it maybe twice over many many attempts. I think its because i'm not really asleep in HI so i've skipped a step in the sleep process so I can't go into a true dream, i'm really not sure. Also of course messing with HI screws up sleep patterns making it highly unlikely to get any kind of restful sleep let alone dreams.
So can anyone testify whether this is similar to your experiences or not? I'd be really curious to find out, also what other techniques and experiences people have had.

All is black, I see a shape floating in the distance, like a crown made of snakes, I see that it is a woman, floating with snake hair, she approaches me. I say to her 'you can not scare me' she turns her face to me, her eyes are like super-bright flashlights which seem to pierce into the deepest recesses of my vision, her mouth opens and a swarm of bees issues out overwhelming the scene. When clarity is regained perhaps 50 different colored and different size (thickness or twisted) beams of light function together on a black background to make pictures of very exotic looking animals which eat each other and merge into and differentiate from each other. They are very beautiful and exciting. Finally the scene takes on a geometric square pattern as my perspective falls down towards the surface of an alien planet, on the bottom is a massive cliff of squares, the squares are shifting in and out and the different shifts create new pictures and patterns, giant liquid glass arcs around me, I realize that I am in a cubist painting, and it is lovely. Words fail utterly.

Is there any techniques you use to get into this state? It is a very fascinating place to be, but unfortunately I only find myself there at random.

I found the quality of the visions astounding. I would see scenes, often science fiction in theme, that were unlike anything I had seen in real life. Its not like my mind had just taken star wars and re-arranged it; it was entirely unique.

Like you said, it is simultaneously responsive to your thought, yet independent in its execution. If I could go there at will I would be very happy.

Some time ago i posted a method i use to induce hypnogogia, an extract of which follows:

Eventually I found that you can actually start the hypnogogic process off manually instead of laying there waiting for it to kick in on its own. What i found is that if you mimic hypnogogia the mind will actually take control of it, sometimes after only a minute or so:

I'll first relax and empty my mind for a few seconds to clear out thoughts from the day. Usually this relaxation includes 3 deep and slow breaths holding my breath on the last one for around 8 seconds and then slowly releasing it. Once my mind is clear i begin mimicking hypnogogia, for me this works best by imagining one of my friends talking. At first im directing it kinda, ill start the first few sentences off, theres no subject, no direction the talkings going in, just words... After maybe the first few sentences Im not actually taking in the words but am passively making sure the speaking continues, alot of it will be almost randomness, just a random collection of words and noise but with the voices of my friends. After a few minutes the mind will takeover completely, im nearly always aware when this is happening and its interesting to observe, with the hypnogogic state set in i can usually predict when im going to fall asleep within around 20 seconds of it happening which is also kinda cool.

If at the moment of the handover you can re-focus and remain passively aware, there may be a good chance of entering sleep conciously. Although i will add it would be like pulling a parachute at the last possible second.. if you miss time it theres probably not alot you can do about it heh.

Ive only recently started to get back into this and have slightly changed my approach to keep sleep at bay. Mainly once hypnogogia has started and i begin to be enveloped and dragged in by it (the point at which logic centres are dimmed and consciousness starts to slip) i employ the perpendicular arm trick mentioned in exploring the world of lucid dreaming:

The technique the writer used was to lie in bed with his forearm perpendicular to the mattress. He found that he could drift easily into his familiar fantasy workshop, and if he fell into a deeper sleep, his forearm would fall to the mattress and awaken him.

So my current project lifted from notes:
The Construct.
Nose dive into sleep via induction of hypnogogia and use the perpendicular arm trick to stop yourself at the last moment. Manipulate hypnogogia by subtly directing thoughts. The brain only needs small inputs to encourage a flow of thought, picturing a seagull may encourage full beach scene imagery for instance. Picturing grass blowing hard in the wind may cause your brain to create imagery around chaotic weather like tornado's (Hence "the construct").
Practice playing on the borders of sleep and once confident in the ability to consciously linger there gradually rely less on the arm trick. The skills built around remaining aware on the borders of sleep should help with future WILD attempts.

Hope this helps, sorry its kinda... fragmented

PS, nice topic wyldfire. Ill be sure to keep an eye on it as its currently my focus of interest too.

Edit:
Just thought id add my responses to some of the questions on this subject too as they might be useful:

Spoiler for On rapid hypnogogia:

Id like to add after playing with it some more last night, that what seems most effective is adding a few voices 'talking over' one another. This seems to have two effects. Firstly it stops you from trying to understand the voices, its just garbled talking therefore you cant really pick out many of the words anyway.. you'll hear some but you wont be actively trying to understand them like you tend to with a single sentence.
Secondly it seems, at least to me, to put me in a very detached state. My minds occupied by the voices but im not really paying them too much attention, just like hypnogogia, my conciousness sinks back as the voices flood my mind and then the handover occurs.

The vast majority of what i hear sounds like it could be from the game sims or from a foreign language. Im worried ill confuse things further with this but many of the words I hear are not really words heh. If you were to ask me about a particular word I heard for instance i could likely tell you it started with a particular letter, but thats it, much of it is gibberish that sounds like words with the odd english word in there.
......
I think the worst thing you can do is try to pick out words and understand whats being said. The main strength of this technique (as far as falling asleep is concerned) is that you not only lose the connection to the outside world, you also lose connection to your conscious and controlled thinking processes. Essentially once the voices start and the mind begins to take over very little conscious involvment is needed, unlike maintaining a clear mind or imagining a scene... and with such a low amount of conscious involvement it seems the unsconcious mind begins to fill in the void.

I'm really glad someone finally responded, I find it a deeply fascinating subject, but it's so tricky though. I've felt like its driving me crazy lately. The thing about it is that it's so close but sometimes so far away at the same time. I will lay down for a nap and try to jump right in and get frustrated if I can't do it which makes me more committed and then causes me to get more frustrated, its a dark spiral. Also it screws up my sleep because of course every time I close my eyes I know this potential exists so then I can't just sleep normally.

So a couple of weird things have happened worth mentioning. Firstly I've been working on consciously manipulated my hypnogogia for forever but after I consciously thought about it I had a break through and suddenly I could make just about anything happen, I mean immediately after closing my eyes. Even the basic light spots and things, I can move them around, break them up and create whatever picture I want with them, I can basically do anything within a certain frame. It involves kind of working the potential of whatever your looking at. If I see a little blob and decide that I'm going to turn it into a picture of my friend it will work but at first it will only be basically like a stick figure, if I then focus on it maybe three or four times then it will transform into the 'real' thing, more detail in the right direction; if I can keep it up without letting the scene shift then it will pop out in full detail and that will generally start the whole thing going.
I've thought about this ability to manipulate what I see when I close my eyes and really it's not that strange right, it is my mind; but its a weird kind of control.
Another thing I noticed is that when the hypnogog tunnel comes up (or roller coaster or whatever) sometimes its just a picture that moves and sometimes the mind goes with the picture then you feel the plunge and the spinning and whatever else, and its way cooler. Well the thing that regulates balance is the inner ear (if I'm not mistaken) well you can focus on this thing and screw with it, so I can start spinning fairly easily; which makes for greater interactivity.
A technique that i've been using which works pretty well is to imagine a red dot (or any color dot) in the middle of the picture and focus on that above all else, don't be distracted by what's going on. If you can hold onto the dot then the scene will pick up on its own.
A final note I was trying the other day, and like I said in the first post the view frame is a three dimensional box right, and usually I am focusing deep into the box trying to get things going, but also on the front of the box which is usually too close (to the oracle of light, I don't know, the view spot) so I don't normally see it. But that time I noticed that there was a picture of myself pouring a cup of tea right at the front of the frame and I realized it because the cup was about to overflow, so then I stopped pouring and took a drink and it was mint tea, and I felt the cup and tasted the tea. It was pretty weird.

Sorry mine is fragmented too, it's a tough topic to organize.

I understand what you mean by the weird control, for me its like im delving into a wild/untamed area of my mind, although i can attempt to manipulate it, it mostly does what it wants, taking the slightest inputs and thoughts and doing what it wishes with them. Infact ive previously written about this too which ill add below incase its of use to anyone. The subjects actually to do with visualisation but i guess some of it can be applied to hypnogogia. See rogue mind and supplying the ingredients:

Spoiler for Visualisation:

The two main types of visualisation:

2D Inward
The more common of the two, images appear like a 2d screen within your vision. An analogy for this would be standing at the back of a darkened room looking out of the window on the opposite wall, or looking at a TV. Actually the first analogy i made to this was of looking through a rectangular box (slightly tapering towards the screen) at a screen on the other side of the box.
This inwards visualisation doesnt have much of a kick to it, what ive found is even when the images are clear and colourful the scene is always... lacking something. Its somewhat flat, its seperate from yourself, theres no integration, you're simply observing a scene, you arn't really part of that scene in anyway like you are in a lucid dream for instance.

3D/Outward
This type of visualisation then is much more powerful. The image seems to extend beyond your line of site, you get the feeling that if you turned your head you would see more of the image thats currently out of sight. The major difference with this type of imagery then when compared to 2D is that you feel part of the scene, its like walking out of the darkened room and actually leaving the house, being out in the garden instead of viewing it through a window. As you can appreciate even if the colour is the same, you cant fully appreciate a garden through a window, you have to go out into the environment.

From my limited testing, 3D visualisation with low colour is a greater experience than 2D with great colour.

I intend to discuss achieving 3D imagery later, but one method i found quite useful was to visualise with open eyes. aslong as you're in such a situation as to have very little or no light in your eyes the brain should continue to focus on internal stimulas more than external.

Cutting the link to reality:
In all internal work such as visualisation its important to distance oneself from the outward environment. Distractions are everywhere, and the less we take notice of our 5 physical senses the more the brain will start to crank up its internal processing capabilities. That is to say that the less the brain has to process external stimulas through the physical senses, the more it grasps for internal imagined stimulas from the internal and imagined senses..
This obviously only applies WHILE visualising.. not during normal waking life.

Supplying the ingredients:
Another important observation ive made is that my brain will quite happily take over the job of creating my internal environment for me, all i have to do is supply the ingredients and it will make the cake.
Example:
Many times i've wanted to visualize a beach but had difficulty, by visualizing easier to imagine things such as a close up of sand, a seagul, maybe a palm tree and a cloud, the brain seems to take over (aslong as its focussed more on internal processing and not external) and creates a nice looking beach scene very rapidly.

From notes:
Ive found from past experimenting that if i forcefully visualize sand, then water, my brain sometimes creates an entire scene based around sand and water. It may not be exactly as id expected it, but the brain has still taken over and quickly built a huge scene from very little user input.
The key then is the handover, getting the brain to use the ingredients and create a scene. Im sure in the near future ill be talking about the conditions needed for a successful handover.

Summary of supplying ingredients:
I can exploit the brains natural anchoring and linking functions to have it create a complex scene for me. I cant however guarantee or fully control how it will turn out.

Memories
Memories seem to be a great way to stimulate visualisation, thinking of someones face or a scene you're familiar with for instance seems to aid in the creation of imagery.

Transfer of colours:
Ive found that I can use similar coloured objects to transfer colour to an image. If im having trouble picturing vibrant green grass for instance i can imagine a poster or item of clothing thats a similar colour and can transfer the memory of that colour onto the grass. This seemed pretty effective when making the beach scene water more.. turquoisy.

Foreground movement for background stability and quality?
In a recent hypnopompic experience i found that foreground movement seemed to increase the clarity and quality of the background environment. This came in an experience i had which started in somewhat poor quality, but picturing a raven flying into the foreground, landing on a post infront of my vision seemed to increase the quality. It seemed to be the birds movements (flapping n such) that somehow kicked my internal processing up a gear.
Now im aware that human vision relies on movement, if not external then at least eye movement, infact holding your vision in one location is proof as you notice everything going black and fuzzy around your focus. Maybe theres something more to this, ill have to explore the roll of movement on imagery.

The rogue mind
Ive realised through practice that the mind hates to be controlled. The best results i have are when i let it do its own thing. I dont wish to view my mind as an enemy, but i have to for this analogy. Its like the mind doesnt like to share good visuals, its programmed/evolved in such a way that it naturally protects conciousness coming into contact with good visuals. Its for this reason that alot of my idea's and experiences have evolved around understanding and exploiting the minds functions, as opposed to trying to force or bend it to my will.
It seems best then to give the mind its freedom, but keep it on a loose leash, gently directing it to keep it on task but allowing it to do most of what it wants (think those dog leads with expandable length). The bonus about this is ive found, in the case of supplying ingredients, that you can actually allow it to do the work for you, and have some control over it, but without the battle.

note:
I often think maybe im wrong about this, maybe the best way is to dominate the mind, to gain full control over it, instead of simply exploiting it... Im yet to find a way to do this though

The frosted window/jigsaw filter
It seems sometimes that a part of my visualisation is clearer and more colourful than other parts. Like im viewing a sheet of frosted glass with a peice missing. I can sometimes focus in on these clear parts and enhance the entire image. Its almost like the brain applies a filter to the image and im trying to get past it, ill sometimes spot these weaknesses i can use to my advantage.

Those are good notes. I need to compare against my own. But I do have one immediate comment about the Rogue mind. I suppose I am suggesting that I have some kind of greater control and one visualization that I came up with that demonstrates the quality of the control is to imagine a ball rolling down a hill, or on a string as I like to do. Keep it rolling for a long time until the speed stays consistent and it gets boring, if your like me you will want to make the ball do more stuff, like go up and down hills, maybe a loopdeloop but the question how? Do you immediately the ball and force it to go up and down? In my experiences this will cause the ball to freeze or go off track, so what I found was most effective was to simply imagine a hill coming and the ball going up the hill and just kind of throw it at the action and then it happens. It think the brain takes a moment to work up to something because it will create the hill at the most logical moment and not immediately. So this is a good example of how I understand this kind of control.

Comments?

I am going to try my Gysin dream machine at the weekend that creates a lot of hypnogogic imagery for users.

P.S. The five of cups came up all the time for two weeks last Novemeber for me.

hypnogogia is an odd business. The more I do it the better it gets but also the more personal it gets, the more rational the images becomes. I've become sure that an entity is communicating with me; it's perhaps my subconscious or perhaps something else but whatever it is it is quite intelligent and has given me insight into a great many things. Also I'm being guided in writing a story, I will have naps and will frequently get a lot of information about what I should be doing in the story and evaluating this scene or that scene; also I will be allowed to see the different characters and events in real time, so that's neat. It's weird though, like I would be given a vision that I was meant to describe in the story then I would have described it wrong so I'll get another vision later comparing the differences between my description and the original.
So I feel like I'm on a good standing now with whatever it is in the phantasmagorical realms because I haven't gone to any hell like place recently. Last week I did once but I don't think it was personal, it was a nasty place, I still shutter to think of it. I think that just happens though when you work with this enough.

good posts regarding hypnagogia techniques,
What would your advice be though for an absolute beginner?
also despite many years of repeated attempts my lucid dream count is still nil,
do you think hypnogogia is a way into ld? and can hypnagogia be as good as?

niall

I managed to track down Mavromatis's notoriously difficult to find "Hypnagogia", which is worth reading if you're unfamiliar. Also read Jeff Warren's 'Head Trip'.
Best advice for a beginner? Just close your eyes and enjoy the show.

I realize this thread is a bit old...

But I feel it should be noted that this technique - generating and observing hypnagogia, and following the imagery into a conscious (lucid) dream - is the foundation of Robert Moss's technique for lucid dreaming.

I recently picked up two of Moss's books. Right now I'm knee-deep in 'Conscious Dreaming', which is really an amazing book. Moss removed so much confusion and agitation over this subject and made it so simple by stating that the absolute best way to achieve lucid dreams is through hypnagogia.

What's really wonderful about Moss's work is that he is not shy like Stephen Laberge (who has done excellent work on the subject and done a greatly commendable job of bring this stuff to the West). Moss only briefly covers in 'Conscious Dreaming' this foundational technique for having lucids; compared to other methods like traditional MILD and WILD, it's really so much easier to start doing and get proficient with.

So instead of dwelling on techniques, Moss explores the vast possibilities and opportunities that are opened to us in dream. Let him and he will really open your eyes and get you excited. I REALLY recommend his work so far.

Check it:

Robert Moss: Conscious Dreaming

Robert Moss: Dreamgates

Start with Conscious Dreaming, and keep an open mind. I can promise you even from waking experience that there is more going on this world than we were raised to understand or believe, or accept.

Note that I speak as a reformed and revitalized American of traditional conservative upbringing.

Thanks for the links.

wyldfire111, I like your descriptions of things you've seen in hypnogogia. Really interesting.

I've also been inducing a hypnogogic state since childhood. My method is to fall asleep partially and then watch the colors swirling around on my eyelids until they coalesce into something. Occasionally I also achieve this state by meditating, but it's rare. I find that if I have simple hallucinations while going to sleep, I'm more likely to have a lucid dream later in the night. Sometimes I use these imagery sessions to establish intent for what I'm planning to do in the lucid dream.

Here are some pictures I've painted of things I've seen during hypnogog/hypnopomp. For some reason dogs and eyes are a recurring theme.

Originally Posted by ebullere

wyldfire111, I like your descriptions of things you've seen in hypnogogia. Really interesting.

I've also been inducing a hypnogogic state since childhood. My method is to fall asleep partially and then watch the colors swirling around on my eyelids until they coalesce into something. Occasionally I also achieve this state by meditating, but it's rare. I find that if I have simple hallucinations while going to sleep, I'm more likely to have a lucid dream later in the night. Sometimes I use these imagery sessions to establish intent for what I'm planning to do in the lucid dream.

Here are some pictures I've painted of things I've seen during hypnogog/hypnopomp. For some reason dogs and eyes are a recurring theme.

Dogs and eyes remind me of only one thing: Alucard.