Thread: Multiple Perspectives

As you know - I am very interested in it!
I've had this beautiful normal dream lately:

I was in a sports-hall with a group of maybe 20 people and we were rehearsing a choreography, dancing.
When I went out to the loo, I saw colour pencils on the wall in the hallway, took them in with me - and somebody explained they were magical things, and one could write with them in empty space, in 3D.
So we did that - we connected all the dancers with a net of colourful shining thin lines, also connections to the room.

And then danced again. I felt all the other bodies - it was as if we were all one dancing organism, parts of a whole connected by these lines.
Amazing - never dreamt something like this before. It's even difficult to describe exactly what this was like - alien and beautiful, that is true for sure.

And a while before, there was this little attempt:

I had transformed my arm into a swan-neck with my hand as the head for the comp and lost lucidity in the process of growing the eyes into it, to try and wave it about and then see with four of them, and now I have that lodged in my head - what a coincidence...
But to try and convince my brain it needs to put in the work now and simulate a completely alien experience for me - doesn't sound trivial.
Anybody ever operated more than two eyes? Like growing two stalks with extras or something like it?

I'd like to try out what you describe - do two things at the same time.
What I also want to do is simulate an OBE, at least from within a lucid dream, and separate from my "physical body" and then look back at it from my "dream-dream-body", so to speak.
Maybe it would be possible to hold a double perspective in the process?
Very much looking forward to your further experiments - and wish me luck for mine!
Highly fascinating!

Hey Schmaven,
The 3 threads you posted all link to this thread instead of the original threads. If your edit time has expired, you can PM me the links and I'll fix up your OP.

I know dutchraptor has done some experiments with multiple perspectives. I'll leave a message for him to check out this thread.

It's not something I've personally tried on purpose, but I've had simultaneous first and third person perspectives in both lucid and non-lucid dreams.
It'd be interesting to delve deeper though, and see what's possible.
I've got a lot of other dream goals on my list already, but this is something I'd like to try out in the future. I'll let you know if/when I do!

I've tried this a few times, but whenever I do I wind up with a new perspective, still singular, but one that "perceives" in a totally novel (to me) way. For instance, I've often gained a sense of seeing everything at once, yet still able to make sense of the sudden influx of literally 3-D info. Or, conversely, occasionally seeing nothing at all, but still knowing what is present with me in the dream, and able to navigate normally (guess you had to be there, huh?). I think there is something in my psyche/unconscious that refuses to believe that you can see, do, or focus on two or more things at once, even when you're lucid and without actual eyes, so my dreaming mind offers up something it can do in trade. Odd, perhaps, but also great fun.

Regardless, you might be able to experiment with multiple perspectives without lucidity by incubating dreams about it. I think that it really shouldn't matter, in this case, if you are lucid when having multiple perspectives. And, should you happen to become lucid in a dream that you intended to be about multiple perspectives, all the better!

Also, I had a thought: you might consider not using more eyes when you try this task, but less. I think that if you can remember that you actually have no eyes, and your perception is not driven by input channeled through those two physical objects, you might be able to coax your dreaming mind into providing its schemata in as many channels, perhaps simultaneously, as you can imagine.

This is an interesting experiment, though, and I hope you have good luck with it!

This is strange...

Dreamer told me about this and I got the idea to link an old study I'd made of my dreams under the name "project transcendence". The project wasn't based on conventual spiritual, or religious transcendence but transcending the human senses, testing the limits of my creativity and the ability to contain it within a cohesive event.

It was a bit of a golden period in my dream journal. My dream rate and stability had been increasing quite steadily over the months until I could re-enact some really great events from a science fiction saga I was reading at the time. My first goal was removing my body and engraining myself within the space of the world.

The whole notion behind the project was to create extremely revelationary experiences within the framework I knew as dreams. I wanted to test the limits of the brain when you disregarded your preconceptions of the world.
If I could find some of my old records I'd quickly mention some of my accounts. Some of my favourite ones that really sticked where multiple viewpoints, no viewpoints (omnipresence) and becoming part of the dream fabric. The emphasize was on recreating these with different starting conditions each time, to form a slightly different dream.

In one dream I jumped through a portal where most of the dreams started with the desire to ingrain with the fabric of space. I felt my body disintegrate as my conscious became part of the quantum structure of the dream world. A hugely empowering feeling spread through me (but not through my body) as I could sense the entire area around me, the texture, density, the temperature. I could see the light bounce around me yet I could sense it going everywhere. The beauty is that thinking back I'm pretty certain that I was still focusing on specific events, just forcing myself into this notion of omnipotence. So much images and concepts merged with this idea of distance to make me feel like I existed everywhere at once.

There was more than that though, a lot was focused on multiple viewpoints and my experience was as you described. An incredible duality, or sometimes even feeling of expanded mentality. Quite invigorating indeed, I think a lot can be achieved when we forget about the limitations of external stimuli and let our imagination go loose.

Consider multitasking during the day:

The phone is being answered while you're flipping a pancake in a skillet (whole spelt with walnuts, apples & cinnamon - yum!)

I have been practicing a technique known to the Ancient Azekt as Bizritek, which is basically, multiple-point astral projection. To a degree of 3 perspectives I have achieved momentarily, although I stopped due to concerns for my psychological stability...

It can be a very disorienting experience at first. However, for a well trained, adept in the ways of mastery of the mind, it could prove to be a worthwhile practice. I highly discourage this practice unless the student is well informed of the dangers. I don't reccomend it if you havent had enough experience in astral projection.

My experience:

I have had a few conscious experiences of successful what I call in english "self multiplication." These have occured during the day.

I took a stance while going to the bathroom in the physical body, then projected upstairs in my kitchen, and maintained full consciousness of both experiences. Of course, how conscious I was, is only known by me. This alone is enough, let alone another projection outside! I was able to maintain 2 projections of my mind along with an active awareness of my physical body with a reasonable degree of clarity in each environment I was in. This is excellent for clairvoyant study of distant places with high efficiency, however, I don't really recommend trying to do this. It was just too stressful to my psyche. Afterwards, I felt a bit of nervousness and lack of presence in my phsyical body, so I meditated on my physicality for about 20 seconds to maintain my composure. It's a great thing to practice, if you are willing to go far and literally expand the conscious mind, however, from my experience, I'd say it just isn't necessary, and it's kind of overwhelming.

TLDR:

Tried this once, but got really confused afterwards. I would recommend against it in general, simply because it made me feel insane! With a slow, steady pace and a gentle approach, it could be a very powerful ability if you practice.

to the light!

I made a suggestion for a ToTM:

Bonus task: Astral project from within a dream! Lie down, cause hypnagogic hallucinations, or illusions, maybe vibrations - achieve any aspect of classical WILD "noise", then leave your "physical body" with your "dream-astral-body", chord attached would be nice.
Take a good look at your sleeping self, then leave, fly up into the night sky and travel the seven astral planes: "...planar surfaces ..., separated by immense coloured "buffer zones". Higher planes have bright, colourful patterns, whereas lower planes appear far duller."

No matter the travel plans - I most definitively want to try at least a simplified version of the first part of this. I'll dare somebody with it, too, I think, despite lacking enthusiastic reactions to the idea. It should be possible quite easily to lie down and pull off that classical OBE schema - roll out, or lift limbs and climb out, and such duplicate one's dream-body. I really look forward to looking back on myself. If that entails two perspectives then, automatically - I doubt it. But just the separation would be a very desirable achievement in my view.

And maybe with high concentration - one could manage to inhabit both bodies..

Originally Posted by dutchraptor

In one dream I jumped through a portal where most of the dreams started with the desire to ingrain with the fabric of space. I felt my body disintegrate as my conscious became part of the quantum structure of the dream world. A hugely empowering feeling spread through me (but not through my body) as I could sense the entire area around me, the texture, density, the temperature. I could see the light bounce around me yet I could sense it going everywhere. The beauty is that thinking back I'm pretty certain that I was still focusing on specific events, just forcing myself into this notion of omnipotence. So much images and concepts merged with this idea of distance to make me feel like I existed everywhere at once.

There was more than that though, a lot was focused on multiple viewpoints and my experience was as you described. An incredible duality, or sometimes even feeling of expanded mentality. Quite invigorating indeed, I think a lot can be achieved when we forget about the limitations of external stimuli and let our imagination go loose.

Those kinds of dreams are like the cream of the crop. I wouldn't mind having dreams like that every night. I've only had a few at random, and it's hard to describe what the experience is like.

Originally Posted by nightlighter

I was able to maintain 2 projections of my mind along with an active awareness of my physical body with a reasonable degree of clarity in each environment I was in. This is excellent for clairvoyant study of distant places with high efficiency, however, I don't really recommend trying to do this. It was just too stressful to my psyche. Afterwards, I felt a bit of nervousness and lack of presence in my phsyical body, so I meditated on my physicality for about 20 seconds to maintain my composure. It's a great thing to practice, if you are willing to go far and literally expand the conscious mind, however, from my experience, I'd say it just isn't necessary, and it's kind of overwhelming.

That's an interesting experience there. I suppose it might include some risks, but in a dream I think it's basically safe from any harmful effects occurring. At least with a good heart, I don't think there's anything to worry about.

Recently, I had a dream where I was experiencing multiple physical perspectives, but only one visual perspective. Kind of along the lines of what Sageous had mentioned about using less eyes rather than more. I had just dropped into a snowy half pipe on a snow board, and suddenly lost first person perspective, going to not quite a third person perspective, but the perspective of an onlooker, just casually watching me. I could sense the body of the onlooker, and also my body as the snowboarder. So physically, I had two perspectives. I had to exert great physical energy to do a bunch of spins and flips on the snowboard, but stood still as the onlooker. When on the snowboard, I went down to the middle part of the half pipe, I was out of view entirely, but I could still feel myself physically being there.

I was lucid for this, but didn't recall this thread during the dream, so I didn't consciously experiment with it. I was too distracted by the novelty of multiple perspectives, and my impressive snowboarding skill to think of anything else. The dream ended with perfect timing, although a bit shorter than I would have liked it to be. A bunch of Buddhist monks told me it was time to wake up. I thought of continuing with the dream, but decided to take their advice instead and phased into waking life, just a few seconds before my alarm clock went off.

I have dreams where my perspectives change and I seem to know what happened to all of the characters, while logically it shouldn't have been the case. I haven't recalled being more than one person at the same time, seems interesting though and I'll probably try to induce it in a future dream.

The links in the OP are now working, if anyone wanted to check out the references.

Now that I'm thinking more about multiple perspectives, I have started to have some dreams from the 3rd person, getting multiple physical sense perspectives. This makes me realize that I am really more interested in multiple visual perspectives rather than physical ones. Multiple physical sense perspectives are very easy for me to imagine and seem natural in 3rd person perspective dreams. Perhaps other people have different experiences with multiple sense perspectives? I'm not sure. It seems like it would be possible to also have this apply to taste, smell, and sound. I generally ignore taste and smell both during the day and during dreams, so I don't have a lot of data in that area.-